15.6

[Liselle]

I mean if a person is really humble they wouldn't go around shouting about how humble they are would they ?

Do you think that's what 15.6 is about, at all? I've always been confused by that line. Sixth lines of hexagrams often (probably not always) mean going too far in whatever the subject of the hexagram is (humility/modesty/integrity, in this case), but the translations don't always sound that way with this one.

Hilary's translation/commentary about 15.6 actually sounds quite uplifting:

"The call of integrity.
Fruitful to use this to mobilize the army,
and bring order to city and state."

She goes on to talk about "bring[ing] your life into resonance with your true voice, so your full potential can find expression."

I see what she means, and it makes sense...but so does what you said: "trumpeting"[SUP]*[/SUP] one's humility or integrity is kind of the opposite of actually being humble or authentic. (I know you weren't talking about 15.6 there; it just brought 15.6 to mind.)

Maybe 15.6 is just a case where a sixth line doesn't mean "going too far." Heaven knows I haven't done any kind of comprehensive study of sixth lines, lol.

But if 15.6 doesn't contain the notion of over-proclaiming your own humilty/integrity, then is it just not in the I Ching at all? None of the other hex 15 lines seem to say it. (I mean, every last idea known to man surely can't be contained in 384 I Ching lines...all I'm saying is that I'm confused about whether 15.6 means that or not.)



[SUP]*[/SUP]Cleary apparently uses the word "trumpeting." I don't have his book, but it's quoted at the James DeKorne site. The rest of the quote, though, is "it is profitable to use the army to conquer one’s land," which again sounds more favorable than not.

 

[Trojina]

But if 15.6 doesn't contain the notion of over-proclaiming your own humilty/integrity, then is it just not in the I Ching at all?

Oh it is in the I Ching, in 61.6.

'Cockcrow rises to heaven.
Constancy, pitfall.' ( Hilary's book)

That line has pulled me up short a few times when I honestly believed myself to be in earnest to myself in a plea or request. So one can falsely believe one has integrity of desire when one hasn't.

I'm not saying it's the only line suggesting this but it is the first that comes to mind with regard to what you say.


15 calls for authenticity. The idea that you must not make more of yourself or less of yourself and your talents than they actually are.

I think 15.6 can be a call to be real about your offerings and use them when it is time to use them.

Don't avoid acting due to false humility.

I think good/real self esteem is one of the best gifts to give a child as so much is lost when a person holds back due to low self esteem.

I recall someone saying how much the world was deprived of brilliant artists, healers, speakers etc etc because many people had too much false humility or under confidence to act and give what they had to give.

Yes re 15.6 too much humility can stand in your way. (although that wasn't what I was talking about in your quote from on original thread here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...-UK-US-Translation-Thread&p=193207#post193207 )

Of course over confidence can be harmful too but that is more recognised. People learn not to boast when very young.

Only this week I visited a friend who had made all kinds of carved objects, all with a unique purpose to use around the home....His wife and daughter were trying to persuade him to take them to market. I went and had a look, he had made beautiful useful things all from wood he found.....I was blown away that he was too shy, too vulnerable to rejection to take them to market. I had never seen such vulnerability in his face before. He would like to sell them as he loves the work of making them much more than his day job.


He said he thought anyone could make what he'd made. We said 'no they can't and even if they could they don't'. If he has this skill, then if 15 were hypothetically applied, he would accept and use it as it is. Not diminish it or over rate it.....just be true to what he is and can do.

Hope he does.


I think it is always better to encourage a little over confidence than under confidence in a child. If a child has good self esteem they won't be afraid to share their gifts to the world.

 

[Trojina]

15.6 isn't about shouting "I am humble". My query over there was about why people say they are humbled when complimented.

15.6 is about showing integrity and humility through action, By doing what you can do. This is proclaiming it, by doing it .

 

[Liselle]

Oh it is in the I Ching, in 61.6.

'Cockcrow rises to heaven.
Constancy, pitfall.' ( Hilary's book)

Ohhh. Okay. Thanks.

Would you generalize and say that when we get 15.6 in readings it's safe to assume it's meant in a favorable way, as good self esteem used productively? Or could it go either way, depending on context? (Maybe this is better tabled until someone has an example. Examples make the batter better!)

Hope he does.

I do too! I wonder if he'd be more comfortable selling them online at first rather than in a real market in person? Like on Etsy or something? Maybe I'm just saying that because now I'd like to see the things, lol.

 

[Liselle]

15.6 isn't about shouting "I am humble". My query over there was about why people say they are humbled when complimented.

Well, yes...this is getting a bit tangled. You weren't talking about 15.6 at all; it's just that that one specific sentence made me wonder "is that what the sixth line of 15 could be about," in keeping with a notion of sixth lines in general. I took that one sentence out of the context you wrote it in, because it - by itself, out of context - caused "15.6" to enter my head. Not that the point you were actually making caused me to think of 15.6. (If that makes any sense.)

 

[Trojina]

Would you generalize and say that when we get 15.6 in readings it's safe to assume it's meant in a favorable way, as good self esteem used productively

well yes I think so....I mean it does say "fruitful to set armies marching" or something so it isn't a time to doubt yourself I don't think.

BTW do you have Hilary's book ? If you don't I recommend it. I like the commentary of hers on 15.6 but am too lazy today to copy it out....so get the book if you don't have it already.

 

[Liselle]

well yes I think so....I mean it does say "fruitful to set armies marching" or something so it isn't a time to doubt yourself I don't think.

Okay. That makes a lot of sense, thank you.

It would probably be interesting to look at all the line sixes, and see how many of them mean "going entirely too far" vs. how many are more like 15.6. I fell prey to a stereotype (ha ha other thread) about line sixes.

BTW do you have Hilary's book ? If you don't I recommend it. I like the commentary of hers on 15.6 but am too lazy today to copy it out....so get the book if you don't have it already.

I do! It is by far my most-used I Ching resource .

 

[Trojina]

It would probably be interesting to look at all the line sixes, and see how many of them mean "going entirely too far" vs. how many are more like 15.6.

Dobro did this some time back in this thread. A great thread IMO



http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?4716-Line-6-high-point-or-endgame

No reason there shouldn't be another thread on line 6s though.

I think it would be interesting to look at all line 1s and all line 2s and all line 3s and so on. Maybe one day we will.

 

[Liselle]

Dobro did this some time back in this thread. A great thread IMO



http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?4716-Line-6-high-point-or-endgame

Oooh, thank you. Have assigned it a browser tab of its very own for the day .

 

[anemos]

Only this week I visited a friend who had made all kinds of carved objects, all with a unique purpose to use around the home....His wife and daughter were trying to persuade him to take them to market. I went and had a look, he had made beautiful useful things all from wood he found.....I was blown away that he was too shy, too vulnerable to rejection to take them to market. I had never seen such vulnerability in his face before. He would like to sell them as he loves the work of making them much more than his day job.


He said he thought anyone could make what he'd made. We said 'no they can't and even if they could they don't'. If he has this skill, then if 15 were hypothetically applied, he would accept and use it as it is. Not diminish it or over rate it.....just be true to what he is and can do.

interesting example !!