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17.4 >3 What to do with my boyfriend im order to be ok with myself?

SkyCat

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Hello forum ..i have a very complicated relationship with trust issues and problems in our communication so i asked the itching what can i do with my boyfriend on order to be ok with myself becauy i feel all the time that i have to do more and more tries to flourish our relationship..
17.4 says about flattery and following someone but be true to the self and i am confused who is the flatterer here? Or has a hidden agenda?
The truth is that my boyfriend is a guy that have a problem to express his feelings and i feel that i have to do something all the time but its been hard and for me because i give all my energy ...
 
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diamant

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what can i do with my boyfriend on order to be ok with myself 17.4 > 3
What a very interesting question to ask.
The cast describes a crowd of flatterers. This crowd has no real value, and it creates confusion and chaos. Are you one of such a crowd? Is your boyfriend flirty with others? Or (as an alternative thought) do you have quite a few men who fancy you, and you keep them around for your fun? In any case, it's not good to have such a crowd, and it's not good either to be part of such a crowd. So, in order to be ok with yourself, find out who this crowd are (yours or your boyfriend's), and have nothing to do with it/them.
PS - because you say you give so much, it's probably he who has many admirers :(
 

moss elk

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The cast describes a crowd of flatterers.

Sorry, not always.
Though your experience surely did,
those characteristics will not be present with every 17.4 cast.

The main point is about following someone for a while where paths may coincide for a while, but then later, going back to your own path.
 

rosada

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17.4 -3 suggests there is some confusion about what this relationship is all about. Someone here is being selfish. The line describes followers who are only out for their own interests. You say your boyfriend has trouble expressing his feelings but this line makes me question what his feelings really are. Is this a committed relationship, is your happiness and well being as important to him as his own or does he just like to have a girl friend to fool around with? The only way to deal with him is to be very clear yourself. Make sure he understands what you expect from this relationship. And of course it's important that you are not being the selfish one yourself!
 

SkyCat

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Well i express myself to him and i told him about my feelings for our relationship and that sometimes i cant even "nurture"myself because he wants all the time my approval and to hung him but when i feel depressed or sometimes you know we dont have our good days he os not supportive with me.
He said that he believes its too much and that he doesn't see why i have these feelings of stress Ifeel like i lose myself in our relationship.
He is the guy doing all the time compliments to me ..how beautiful you are and the similar things.
he really has problems with his expression a monotony in his voice and a routine when he speaks.
I dont know if i want too much and im the selfish one . sometimes i fell that i try to make him to express himself without fear cause i feel he has many fears but i dont know if he does something about these issues of him because he he doesnt talk about the human things and feelings...
I ask iching if Iam the one who is selfish here and answered me with hexagram 1.5<14
 
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SkyCat

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Hexagram 1.5 <14

I know the yi doesnt answere in away like" yes"or "no" but i feel it says to me that im ok with my tao meaning maybe that im not so big selfish but the related hexaagram 14 possesion in a great measure its like to said me that im working with my ego?

Thanks all of you for your time and answers 🙂.
Maybe the second question with the first together tell me that we just cant be together is not a good company of two people together..it really hurts but i cant feel at safe place aanymore.
 
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moss elk

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Bradford once posted this photo to explain 17.4

365-a98193241d3cbc760beffb4d0315619d.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is the man (1), wealthy (-ier than you (14)?
with prominence of some kind?
If yes, I'd say the 1.5 referred to him.
 
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diamant

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If I am the one who is selfish here 1.5 > 14

The line says it would be good for you to meet a man/elder/doctor.
I believe you would benefit from counselling, to help you sort out the issue of why you want to be with someone who:
- tells you compliments with a fake voice
- isn't there for you when you need support
- doesn't display feelings or humanity

From his behaviour it's obvious he has severe behavioural issues, but of course you're not his psychotherapist, you can't sort out his issues, and you can't force him to go see a psychotherapist. In my opinion you should aim to fix the issue within yourself, of why you accept his unacceptable behaviours.
 

SkyCat

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Bradford once posted this photo to explain 17.4

View attachment 3580

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Is the man (1), wealthy (-ier than you (14)?
with prominence of some kind?
If yes, I'd say the 1.5 referred to him.

Hello moss elk

No we are in the same situation but the truth is that he is like a Duke on his appearance
 

SkyCat

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If I am the one who is selfish here 1.5 > 14

The line says it would be good for you to meet a man/elder/doctor.
I believe you would benefit from counselling, to help you sort out the issue of why you want to be with someone who:
- tells you compliments with a fake voice
- isn't there for you when you need support
- doesn't display feelings or humanity

From his behaviour it's obvious he has severe behavioural issues, but of course you're not his psychotherapist, you can't sort out his issues, and you can't force him to go see a psychotherapist. In my opinion you should aim to fix the issue within yourself, of why you accept his unacceptable behaviours.
Thank you diamanda
Thid is what i im going to do i have to see someone to coumsell me i cant understand why im in this situation without feedback or momments with affection ..i make him a phone call yesterday and unfortunately my emotional state wasnt ok and in the end of our conversation i told him that i got bored to "beg" him for affection and after that he said to me that he is shocked with my announcement with i didnt understood and he didnt explain nothing wt all but told me he wanted yo close the phone because he didnt felt ok...so we close.

I ask then why he said to me that he is shocked and got again 17.<4 !!!!
Maybe i am the selfish one
 
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diamant

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@SkyCat wanting affection and mutual feelings with your partner is natural, not selfish.
If he finds affection/feelings shocking, then the man is beyond repair.
It's also not good for you to continue to demand from him something he can't give you.
 

SkyCat

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@SkyCat wanting affection and mutual feelings with your partner is natural, not selfish.
If he finds affection/feelings shocking, then the man is beyond repair.
It's also not good for you to continue to demand from him something he can't give you.

It was the first time i told him something like that i wanted him to understand my feelings because he cant he believes he is supportive and tell me that he loves me but he cant tell me things all these are bullshits (sorry) gor me.

I will go to a therapist diamanda you are wright i can't figure out why i cant split with him.

I ask again why i accept his behaviour from him?
And got 23.1<27 and i feel that i have immediately go to see a therapist because i dont have a foundation for myself and the truth is that as time goes by with this relationship i cant trust myself anymore not my Intuition so. I feel something basic is peell off from me.
 
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diamant

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I feel something basic is peell off from me.

That's a great interpretation of 23.1 > 27.
The line also says 'the legs of the bed are split', and 27 is hunger. Your sexual connection is not stable and perhaps you accept all these things because of the constant 'hunger'.
 

SkyCat

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That's a great interpretation of 23.1 > 27.
The line also says 'the legs of the bed are split', and 27 is hunger. Your sexual connection is not stable and perhaps you accept all these things because of the constant 'hunger'.
With all these challenges i dont want to have sec with him but my body want to have sex and the last time we did after sex i started to cry because i felt a vacuum in my psych and symptoms in my stomach such as swelling and after that i felt personal frustration/cancel/defeat and started to cry.
He told me maybe it was because we had days that we didnt do something (i didnt want cause all those things between as disempowered me and my libido)
I felt him detached from feelings when he told me that and something like manipulative
 

dfreed

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.... i have a very complicated relationship with trust issues and problems in our communication ....
Hello SkyCat: looking at the trigram images/changes of 17.4:

Lake above (with one moving line) suggest that he is operating on the 'pleasure principle' - that what he mainly asks about a relationship is, 'does this feel good?' or maybe, 'does this feel good to me?' There may be a certain amount of selfishness here (though I don't sense it's overwhelming, or that he's evil or uncaring ...); and then again, isn't this where we often start off in relationships: that it's about how it feels to us (that it gives us pleasure, security, etc.), but hopefully it grows into something larger - that encompasses more then just our individual selves and our wants.

Thunder below might be describing you: you are full of action, that "I (you) have to do more and more ...." Thunder is about action, but what comes to mind is that often-spoken phrase, that the definition of being ineffective (or of crazy actions) is: "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Does this seem to be describing you and the actions you've taken so far?

So here the Yi is suggesting a different, and maybe unique or outside-the-lines approach:

*** Instead of trying to change him, or expecting him to be different, what if you were to 'go with the flow' ?
(the upper trigram Water, of Hex. 3)?


(Unique, new, or outside-the-lines thinking and/or approaches can be qualities both trigrams Lake and Thunder.)

Richard Rutt's translation of Line 17.4 includes the phrase:
" ... in a covenant, could there be misfortune?" (Note the question mark here, implying that it's a question worth asking/exploring, but it's not a forgone conclusion.)​

So, in letting the relationship 'just be', and for a time truly - and not begrudgingly or passively - letting him be who he is, what might you learn about your relationship, and about this 'covenant' (agreement) which you two have mutually entered into?

This opens up all sorts of possibilities (and to mention only a few here): Maybe you'll see that he is actually communicating with you - but with actions and not words. Or maybe you'll see how truly unfit you are for each other, that you have very different goals or expectations about the relationship (which doesn't make either of you right or wrong, but only different and maybe mismatched)? Or you might discover the ways that you do fit together? (or how much of a mixed bag it is?)

This might allow you to settle into the relationship and see - in a new way - what is working, and what isn't. And/Or, maybe you'll be able to better sort out what part of this is his behavior and what part of it are your issues - which can be two entirely different things (that may not have a cause and effect relationship).

The possibilities here seem ripe with promise.

Rutt's translation for Hex. 3 includes:
Not for use when there is somewhere to go. Favorable for appointing (to) lordships.

This suggests to me that this about (finding out) how your relationship is right now - and less about where it's going, which is a good thing: after all, how can you know where you want to go, if you don't know where you are right now?; And also, that it may be good to enlist the help of someone you trust to sort through what you're learning about the relationship - such as a counselor or therapist.

I hope that's of some use.

Kindly, D
 
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SkyCat

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Hello SkyCat: looking at the trigram images/changes of 17.4:

Lake above (with one moving line) suggest that he is operating on the 'pleasure principle' - that what he mainly asks about a relationship is, 'does this feel good?' or maybe, 'does this feel good to me?' There may be a certain amount of selfishness here (though I don't sense it's overwhelming, or that he's evil or uncaring ...); and then again, isn't this where we often start off in relationships: that it's about how it feels to us (that it gives us pleasure, security, etc.), but hopefully it grows into something larger - that encompasses more then just our individual selves and our wants.

Thunder below might be describing you: you are full of action, that "I (you) have to do more and more ...." Thunder is about action, but what comes to mind is that often-spoken phrase, that the definition of craziness (or at least being ineffective) is: "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results". Does this seem to be describing you and the actions you've taken so far?

So here the Yi is suggesting a different, and maybe unique or outside-the-lines approach:

*** Instead of trying to change him, or expecting him to be different, what if you were to 'go with the flow' ?
(the upper trigram Water, of Hex. 3)?


(Unique, new, or outside-the-lines thinking and/or approaches can be qualities both trigrams Lake and Thunder.)

Richard Rutt's translation of Line 17.4 includes the phrase:
" ... in a covenant, could there be misfortune?" (Note the question mark here, implying that it's a question worth asking/exploring, but it's not a forgone conclusion.)​

So, in letting the relationship 'just be', and for a time truly - and not begrudgingly or passively - letting him be who he is, what might you learn about your relationship, and about this 'covenant' (agreement) which you two have mutually entered into?

This opens up all sorts of possibilities (and to mention only a few here): Maybe you'll see that he is actually communicating with you - but with actions and not words. Or maybe you'll see how truly unfit you are for each other, that you have very different goals or expectations about the relationship (which doesn't make either of you right or wrong, but only different and maybe mismatched)? Or you might discover the ways that you do fit together? (or how much of a mixed bag it is?)

This might allow you to settle into the relationship and see - in a new way - what is working, and what isn't. And/Or, maybe you'll be able to better sort out what part of this is his behavior and what part of it are your issues - which can be two entirely different things (that may not have a cause and effect relationship).

The possibilities here seem ripe with promise.

Rutt's translation for Hex. 3 includes:
Not for use when there is somewhere to go. Favorable for appointing (to) lordships.

This suggests to me that this about (finding out) how your relationship is right now - and less about where it's going, which is a good thing: after all, how can you know where you want to go, if you don't know where you are right now?; And also, that it may be good to enlist the help of someone you trust to sort through what you're learning about the relationship - such as a counselor or therapist.

I hope that's of some use.

Kindly, D
well hello DFreed !

You gave me a lot here and i dont know from where i can start..

*** Instead of trying to change him, or expecting him to be different, what if you were to 'go with the flow'

first
I dont want to change him ..i fell in love with him we are in about 3 years together and its the second time we are together after a 6 years break up.He is a very kind person and an introvert but har really issues that dont work. I try to understand him and find a way to communicate with him not to change him! maybe i expected that my love will flourish his personality but probably not.

You mention
" Lake above (with one moving line) suggest that he is operating on the 'pleasure principle' - that what he mainly asks about a relationship is, 'does this feel good?' or maybe, 'does this feel good to me?' There may be a certain amount of selfishness here (though I don't sense it's overwhelming, or that he's evil or uncaring ...); and then again, isn't this where we often start off in relationships: that it's about how it feels to us (that it gives us pleasure, security, etc.), but hopefully it grows into something larger - that encompasses more then just our individual selves and our wants."

Second

when we have fights or disagreements he send me messages that he want us to laugh and be ok which is true and logical but he is not aman who walks his talk a more lethargic personality and i have to go down in his hole to understant with questions why he is so passive agressive and dont tell me what his feelings are .he comes to me with a passive aggressive attitude.

Because you mention:

"So, in letting the relationship 'just be', and for a time truly - and not begrudgingly or passively - letting him be who he is, what might you learn about your relationship, and about this 'covenant' (agreement) which you two have mutually entered "

And of course when i go with the flow he is all around growling for little things such as little pains only he has.When i have problems as big issues of health or the problem with unemployment hefinds a way to growl to take my attention from me to give it to him. he is not cunny or evil i didnt say anything like that and also if tsek my question it was about me to feel good with myself because i try everything and nothing worked.
Probably we can relate anymore we are different people with different needs that cant met.
the problem fo the " covenant or our covenant " is that when lastly told him that maybe we are unfit and we have to do something or agree at least.. he said that no no no i dont thing that we dont fit !!!
so yes maybe im crazy but not in the way you mention again above but in the way that im still with him.
 

SkyCat

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also the question was about what to do to be ok with myself not to change him i just gave some little information about the status and because i dont feel secure in this relationship but he is secure with me ,i dont feel affection from him but he felt it from me! so maybe im the giver?
 

dfreed

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I don't want to change him ...
Okay, I hear that. However, you started this thread by asking "What to do with my boyfriend ... ?" I sort of assumed that 'what to do with' him meant you wanted to change him in some way - or have him change his behavior. But I guess I was mistaken.

Also, I obviously don't know you, and I don't know the history or details of your relationship. So, given that - along with the fact that the Yi often speak to us (or to me) in mythic or poetic ways, I can only offer my best shot at an interpretation - and I hope that at least a bit of that resonates with you, or makes you head towards a solution to your situation.

But this also leaves me wondering - given that you are unhappy in the relationship (that's how it seems from my end), but you also don't want to change him, and he also doesn't want to change - what are you left with? What sort of options were you hoping/thinking the Yi might offer?
And of course when i go with the flow he is all around growling ...
When I suggested that you 'go with the flow' I meant that it includes being accepting of whatever happens. For example, you 'go with the flow' and he becomes growling .... so you could - as an option - then be accepting to his growling or other less-than positive behaviors. And therefore, if you're accepting of how he is, problem solved!

Or .... more realistically, this 'going with the flow' is giving you lots of useful information about what you need to do 'with' your boyfriend - that he does not walk his talk, that he's lethargic, that he takes on a passive-aggressive attitude when you have conflicts, that you don't feel affection from him, that he doesn't want to accept the fact that you are not a good match - but he also doesn't want to do anything about it either, and apparently you also don't want to change him .... (need I go on?).

So, given that you don't want to change him - and he doesn't want to change himself - is it possible that the 'flow' of this relationship is towards it coming to an end? I don't know that this is 100% true, but it seems quite likely.

Or another option would be for you to accept him as he is - his growling, his being lethargic, being passive-aggressive .... and you just go on the same way you have been. (I don't know if I'd be excepting of that, but it is an option for you, right?). Or as I mentioned above, that you simply learn to be contented and happy with how things are, or you continue to be unhappy with how things are.

I'm not seeing any other options, but I'm open to hearing some if there you have any.
so yes maybe im crazy but not in the way you mention ....
Finally, I never said you were 'crazy'. It is true however that what you are describing seems like ineffective and 'crazy-making' behavior - and that how you are describing this guy would drive me bonkers! But maybe that's not true for you. And maybe your actions and your relationship don't fit the definition of being ineffective (or crazy) that I shared above.

However, that begs the question, why did you ask 'What to do with my boyfriend in order to be ok with myself' in the first place if he and the relationship are either acceptable to you and / or they are not driving you a bit crazy?

Kind Regards, D
 
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moss elk

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@SkyCat wanting affection and mutual feelings with your partner is natural, not selfish.

Compatibility is a real thing.

There is the expression:
You can't get blood from a stone.

I too, learned this the hard way.
 

SkyCat

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Compatibility is a real thing.

There is the expression:
You can't get blood from a stone.

I too, learned this the hard way.

Hello moss elk

Its really a hard feeling maybe i dindt wanted to admit it ...try to push the relationship to work but i failed I lost it and myself also you are right..you cant get blood from a stone....

Thank you so much..
 

SkyCat

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Okay, I hear that. However, you started this thread by asking "What to do with my boyfriend ... ?" I sort of assumed that 'what to do with' him meant you wanted to change him in some way - or have him change his behavior. But I guess I was mistaken.

Also, I obviously don't know you, and I don't know the history or details of your relationship. So, given that - along with the fact that the Yi often speak to us (or to me) in mythic or poetic ways, I can only offer my best shot at an interpretation - and I hope that at least a bit of that resonates with you, or makes you head towards a solution to your situation.

But this also leaves me wondering - given that you are unhappy in the relationship (that's how it seems from my end), but you also don't want to change him, and he also doesn't want to change - what are you left with? What sort of options were you hoping/thinking the Yi might offer?

When I suggested that you 'go with the flow' I meant that it includes being accepting of whatever happens. For example, you 'go with the flow' and he becomes growling .... so you could - as an option - then be accepting to his growling or other less-than positive behaviors. And therefore, if you're accepting of how he is, problem solved!

Or .... more realistically, this 'going with the flow' is giving you lots of useful information about what you need to do 'with' your boyfriend - that he does not walk his talk, that he's lethargic, that he takes on a passive-aggressive attitude when you have conflicts, that you don't feel affection from him, that he doesn't want to accept the fact that you are not a good match - but he also doesn't want to do anything about it either, and apparently you also don't want to change him .... (need I go on?).

So, given that you don't want to change him - and he doesn't want to change himself - is it possible that the 'flow' of this relationship is towards it coming to an end? I don't know that this is 100% true, but it seems quite likely.

Or another option would be for you to accept him as he is - his growling, his being lethargic, being passive-aggressive .... and you just go on the same way you have been. (I don't know if I'd be excepting of that, but it is an option for you, right?). Or as I mentioned above, that you simply learn to be contented and happy with how things are, or you continue to be unhappy with how things are.

I'm not seeing any other options, but I'm open to hearing some if there you have any.

Finally, I never said you were 'crazy'. It is true however that what you are describing seems like ineffective and 'crazy-making' behavior - and that how you are describing this guy would drive me bonkers! But maybe that's not true for you. And maybe your actions and your relationship don't fit the definition of being ineffective (or crazy) that I shared above.

However, that begs the question, why did you ask 'What to do with my boyfriend in order to be ok with myself' in the first place if he and the relationship are either acceptable to you and / or they are not driving you a bit crazy?

Kind Regards, D
Maybe i should change the question as "what to do in regard to" and no "with what to do " because that time i was asking me myself regard to my boyfriend and the difficult relationship ee have which doenst mean with nothing to change him i suppose.

Also i said about the crazinessy you mention but it wasn't with a bad way because in the past iwas doing the same seiries of things as an unconscious pattern which i understood later.
 

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