18.2.3

[calumet]

I am watching, helplessly I think, as someone I love dearly (and who, I believe, loves me) destroys our relationship. I asked the Yi to comment on my perception that I have done all I can. I am exhausted and at wits' end, but seem to be advised to think harder and find the tao and central purpose. Any thoughts? What do y'all do when you've just HAD IT??

 

[seeker]

I agree that it appears Yi is telling you to try harder. Lise's interpretation of line 2 talks about living, not just existing and making other people see and hear you. Line 3 seems to speak of a gentler approach, but also says that it is better to try too hard than not hard enough. I do think this reading says that you are not helpless. There is more you can do, you just have to figure it out. Maybe you are not seeing it because you are so mentally exhausted. Perhaps it would help to meditate on the situation or just take a long walk by yourself to clear your head. My attitude has always been when you think you have reached the end of your rope, take off your shirt, tie it to the end and go a few more feet; it brings you that much closer to the ground. But then we all know I am a pushy, control freak who doesn't know when to give up or give in. I think if you really thought you were ready to quit, you would not have asked the question. Sometimes we look to Yi to tell us what we already know. And feel free to come here and rant when you need it. Sometimes it helps make things clearer just to share your feelings. I hope this helped, and I hope you can work things out. Peace

 

[dobro p]

"I am watching, helplessly I think, as someone I love dearly (and who, I believe, loves me) destroys our relationship. I asked the Yi to comment on my perception that I have done all I can. I am exhausted and at wits' end, but seem to be advised to think harder and find the tao and central purpose. Any thoughts? What do y'all do when you've just HAD IT??"

I think that when you've had it, it's time for a change, but the Yi gave you Hex 18, not Hex 33.

Hex 18 talks about dealing with what's got twisted and gone all wrong in the past. In response to your question, the Yi's talked about dealing with abuses on both the masculine and feminine side of the equation. Okay, I'll be simplistic. Let's say 18.2 applies to you, and 18.3 applies to him. That suggests there's abuse on both sides - on your side for letting it happen, on his for making it happen. If that's the case, the Yi says that in dealing with your half of the equation, you're not in a position to carry out what you think is right. Dealing with his abuse, which is one of power and authority - if you limit yourself to a small scale, there's a bit of remorse, but no big fault.

Can you do that? Can you not try to insist on what's right? Can you limit your work on his abuse to a small scale?

It sounds to me like the Yi's advising you to spare your heart by letting go of certain aspects of the way you're perceiving and handling the situation. Spare your heart.

 

[calumet]

Thank you both so much for the wise advice. Honestly I was relieved that the Yi told me to go on. I adore this man. But I really am exhausted; I need to rest awhile before I can think what to do. We are not talking now, and I at least have let him know that he can talk to me if he wants to. But he is incredibly stubborn, as a matter of personality and of principle; and it may be that I will have to keep the conversation going, albeit one-sidedly, for now. I just don't know.

Dobro, it is true that I've permitted much too much, and I assume responsibility for that. I like your idea of chipping away at his abuse on a small scale. If only I can figure out where to start! It happens that today I was reading a somewhat humorous article about a situation parallel to ours. The writer--a man--said outright that the man he was writing about didn't deserve the woman, and he referred to the male perpetrating the outrage as a "fuckwit" and a "moron," among other choice terms. Do you think that sending my man that article would qualify as a small chipping away?

 

[dobro p]

grin

Not unless the guy in the article was handling his relationship the same way that your guy is.

 

[calumet]

I like to converse with the Yi, which I think of as the spirit of my grandmother, who was a very wise woman. So I cast one hexagram each day, using yarrow stalks, even when there's not much going on. Lots of emotional stuff going on now--bleah!--and my question each day has been, What do I need to do? Today the answer was 47.2.4-->8, which means, Just hang in there for now, it'll be OK--right??

 

[dobro p]

Sorry - I got very busy there for a day.

Well, my understanding of Hex 47 is that you have no choice but to hang in there LOL. Plus the idea in 47.2 of offering some kind of sacrifice, and the *implication* in 47.4 that you've been coasting a bit. Put 'em together and it suggests to me that some giving on your part is required - giving of yourself, your time, or some energy. Again, what you drew sounds to me *exactly* where you're at now.

 

[calumet]

Dobro, thanks for your contributions. This is an anxious time for me, and I appreciate the support. I have written to him--a phone call would have been wildly inappropriate just now--and in as upbeat and kind a manner as I could, I asked him if what is happening is what he really wants. I said that I plan to spend the rest of my life living and loving, and that it is one of my fondest wishes to share these things with him; but that I will honor his decision if he says NO. And that is the truth.

My question of the Yi today was, How do I get through this? What do I do now? And the answer was 15, unchanging. So I suppose I'm at another stopping point, and will just have to sit tight and see what develops.

Mine is such a common problem, you'd think someone long ago would have invented a solution, thereby becoming one of the gods. But as it is, the only way through it seems to be through it. Thank you again for your kindness.

 

[dobro p]

"But as it is, the only way through it seems to be through it."

That's why we're here.

 

[calumet]

Same topic, expressing a sense of sorrow and hopelessness to the Yi, I got 54.2.5. Nothing further to do or say at the moment. I could use some good news.

 

[dobro p]

54.2 and 54.5 are really good lines.

54.2 talks about a fortunate situation in which, although you don't see everything, you can see enough to be useful.

54.5 talks about a marriage in which an apparently lower rank or station actually has a better result.

That's the good news. There is no bad news with those lines. The context of 54 however, as you know, is a situation in which forces are acting on you, a situation in which you are not the agent of what's happening to you, a situation that calls the shots. You're entering a new phase. Take heart.

 

[calumet]

You're right, Dobro. 54.5 is unquestionably positive. I use Karcher mainly, and he puts 54.2 in a positive light as well, but I'm more inclined at the moment to see Wilhelm's view--the man disappoints the girl but she remains loyal. I can vouch for the disappointment; don't know about the loyal part. I'm just feeling awfully Ilsa Lund-ish at the moment (Ingrid Bergman's character in CASABLANCA). I know the Yi is telling me *A* truth, but I hate not knowing for sure *WHICH* truth, exactly, and I hate having passivity imposed on me. Play it, Sam.

 

[calumet]

Oh, and that second changing line was 3. 54.2.3.

 

[calumet]

Boy, I need to calm down and get some sleep. It was 18.2.3 and then 54.2.5. Geesh.

 

[calumet]

And the latest!

I firmly believe that deep within ourselves we know a great deal more than we are aware of knowing, including how others feel about us. (Social animals MUST know their precise position in the hierarchy.) That's one reason why the Yi can be so effective--its imagery slides right past conscious thought and taps more fundamental and less-defended knowledge. With this in mind, and against the background of having recently told my loved one that I want to be with him--marry him probably--I said to the Yi, I know that this man loves me very much. Why doesn't he want to be with me? Answer: 15.6.

I have perfected the art of playing the cynic, but really I'm one of those silly romantics who believes that love conquers all, or at least that people in love should take a whack at it. I do recognize, though, that not everyone believes this. So is 15.6 saying that he feels like he has more important things to do? Probably anyone who feels or is jilted thinks the loved one is making a horrible mistake, but I know to my depths that if he plans to reject me, this is very wrong for him. I have watched him thrash around making miniature versions of this mistake, and I know for a certainty that for him this IS a mistake.

Here is another truth: You can't do anything for a self-destructive person. But still I am left wondering ... 15.6, marshall your forces. What forces? What in heaven or on earth can he be doing, other than cutting off his nose to spite his face?

Any of you young women out there who are reading this, take it from me: STAY AWAY from men, children, and dogs. They will drive you mad.

 

[dobro p]

The Yi doesn't explain why things are the way they are; instead, it gives you a picture or symbol of the way things are, plus adds useful advice about how best to approach that situation.

So I don't think the Yi was answering your question directly. I don't think you were getting an answer to 'why doesn't he want to be with me?' I think it was presenting you with the contour of the situation and a way to navigate that contour, which is -

Signal a modest approach to those involved. If you signal a modest approach, it's advantageous to move forcefully and to powerfully impose order at the center of how things are organized. Signalling your modest approach, set the situation right forcefully. Sort of along the lines of: "I've got needs here - I've got to get them met, so this is way it's got to be for me. I hope you can see yourself in this."

 

[calumet]

Dobro, that does describe the situation well. It's pretty much what I did, too. I'm not overly optimistic about the outcome. Ah well ... life goes on, yes?

 

[yellowknife]

Hi Calumet.

Ever so sorry you're having a horrible time. I'm glad you're remaining a romantic hopeful even in the face of adversity (it reminded me of the quote "a cynic is a romantic fool in a cynical world")

I've been wondering about the appearance of 54 and 15,6 in your reading.

In reference to your partner I wonder if it could be saying that he's restraining himself and keeping his desires (to be with you) in check- while he sorts himself out. From what you say, it sounds like he's had issues with relating in the past- and as you and he move toward commitment he might be battling with himself in order to be as sorted out as he can. 15,6 is about restraining one's inner demons I think? A positive thing to be focussing on before entering into an even deeper phase of relationship.

But not much comfort as chaos ensues in the intervening time.

Blessings
Wolverine

 

[calumet]

Thanks, Wolverine. Actually I've given up on romance, and have decided to limit myself to love affairs with mechanical devices. Yeah, that's gonna happen. Any day now.

Dobro's been right, and you are too. I saw the notion of self-examination in 15.6, and hoped that he might be looking deeply into himself and will find the truth that I believe is there. But honestly right now I question my ability to know anything, and feel it only too likely that I'm wildly off the mark about what he thinks, feels, or knows.

Wilhelm talks about how easy it is to imagine that emnity (and there is plenty of anger and hurt between us) is caused solely by a fault of the other, whereas true modesty requires us to look into ourselves for the cause of emnity. I think I can be that self-reflective, and would like to think that he can be too. But right now my trust in him is shattered; and as I say, I won't risk claiming to know anything. This of course just reinforces the truth that the only person I can control to any degree is myself, and so I have been thinking about what I might do to smooth out some of the rough terrain Wilhelm's interpretation of 15 refers to.

So today I asked, Should I ask to see him, so that we simply can talk? Answer: 44.4.5.6.

Back to the drawing board.

 

[dobro p]

"So today I asked, Should I ask to see him, so that we simply can talk? Answer: 44.4.5.6.

Back to the drawing board."

Sort of. In itself, it's moving in three directions (which is how you're feeling as well). But ever since a post of Woverine's '2 and feedback' post, I'm willing to take resulting hexagrams more seriously, especially if there are a lot of changing lines in the primary hexagram, like you got here. That would make it 44.4.5.6 > 46, which I'd read as 'the whole issue of encounter is moving in different directions, but moving overall in the direction of Ascending, which means getting to a higher level or dimension than you're at now'. Better, in other words, in spite of how you're feeling. You know, the Yi talks of situations, seldom of feelings. And when it talks of feelings, it's never in a subjective vein, but always as an element in an objective situation. That's its strength, but it leaves you the task of separating out the message from how you feel, reading the message independently of how you're feeling (ha!), and then dealing with your feelings. Not easy.

 

[calumet]

Dobro--meaning that that the Yi says the situation is getting better, regardless of how I feel? Leave it to the Yi to be so matter-of-fact. I want to know how this whole thing's going to turn out! Better, that's wonderful news, but better HOW? One obvious possibility that I hate even to contemplate would be that getting this man out of my system will be better. That sure doesn't feel "better" right now.

Mechanical devices, I telya. Mechanical devices and old Hollywood movies. I want Humphrey Bogart to come and take me away from all this.

 

[calumet]

By the way, I'm posting all these different hexagrams in one thread rather than starting a new thread for each hex, because it's useful to me to follow what the Yi has to say throughout an entire conversation on one topic. Hope no one minds.

 

[dobro p]

"Dobro--meaning that that the Yi says the situation is getting better, regardless of how I feel? Leave it to the Yi to be so matter-of-fact."

Like I said, that's its strength. It images situations and how to deal with them usefully. It helps you see things more clearly and act more skillfully. 'Feeling better' isn't necessarily part of the package. But my understanding is that if you can actually apply what you're drawing in the Yi, then you'll feel less upset, cuz you'll be acting more in harmony with the situation instead of bucking it or fretting about it.

"I want to know how this whole thing's going to turn out!"

You serious?

"Better, that's wonderful news, but better HOW?"

You sound ticked. But the reason I pointed out that what you drew was moving in a positive direction was because you seemed to be drawing a completely negative impression from your consultation - you said 'back to the drawing board', right? As if the situation was going nowhere and you had to start all over again. But that's not how I read 44.4.5.6. I read it as 'Encounter's complex and moving in different directions, but overall moving toward Ascending'. Complex how? Well, let's look at it.

44.4: acting now is a mistake.

44.5: this involves a windfall

44.6: meeting this with firm, hard strength - there's distress, but you're without fault.

On the one hand a mistake, on the other hand a windfall, on the third hand! aggressive directness that's distressing, but okay. Complex, in other words. But it's all moving to a higher level for you, if you carry out your plan to call him and see him. Not back to the drawing board at all. Something different that you can choose to go through if you wish. Complex encounter that moves to higher ground.

I can't do more than interpret this stuff for you with my limited ability. I can't tell you how it's all going to turn out. I wouldn't tell you even if I knew. ;-)

 

[calumet]

You're right, Dobro. I'm TICKED. I'm a lot of other things, too. Relieved, grieved, sad, hurt, exiled, free at last, and--not surprisingly--confused. Looking again at your interpretation of 44.4.5.6, I believe you are correct. There is much to be gained by the conversation I am considering. I also believe that 44.4 warns me to wait a bit. Sensible advice, given the emotional stew in which I'm simmering. But "wait" doesn't always mean "hibernate." As I wait, I contemplate and consider, consulting the Yi once a day as is my habit.

Today I got 30.1-->56. I take 56 to mean I am a visitor in a foreign mind, not in the sense that I am psychotic--others can figure that out if they wish--but that I am a guest in the consciousness of someone who does not think like I do. So, today I hear: Be very clear about your thoughts and feelings, and if you are sincere, even clumsiness in communicating them will not be a fault; but do remember that you are presenting your thoughts and feelings to a foreign (different) mind. Observe the local courtesies and customs.

Having other more urgent fish to fry just now, I'll save for another day the philosophical discussion about whether one should or should not know the future from the Yi or any other source. Alas, my own crystal ball is in the repair shop at the moment.

 

[calumet]

Question: I am exhausted and ready to give up. At the least, I need a break from thinking about it. My grief and worry are consuming me, and I need some way to regain a sense of proportion. Please help.

Answer: 3.1.6.

 

[dobro p]

Top and bottom of new, difficult beginnings. A kind of polarity.

Make yourself firm as a stone post - the situation offers all sorts of advantage to you in the area of being firm and establishing firm foundations.

You're ready to proceed but going nowhere, and in a state of constant distress.

3.1 tells you what to do; 3.6 tells you that where your heart is at right now is part of the picture, and not an anomaly.

dobro asks you: you got support right now? Can you let this go for a day and catch your breath?

 

[calumet]

Do I have support? Not much. The Yi, this forum. Most of my friends are in love with their darling little grand babies. They can't imagine a world where a man's behavior matters, and I can't imagine a world where it doesn't.

I'm firm, all right. A stone post, brittle as flint. I'm solid, hard and immovable. But strike me just so and I'd shatter. I've been around the block a few times, but have been in this state only once before. Back then, I swore it never would happen again. By the time I heard he planned to marry, I'd managed to fall in love with someone else; and yet I remember the night I lay in my new lover's bed, grieving the old.

Can I forget about it for a day? Maybe. I hope so. I'm aiming for a week, though that may be overly ambitious. I think I'll go dancing tomorrow night--line dancing. Light-hearted, stylized courtship, happy music, cadenced switching of partners (even in this state I know there ARE other men in the world), and lots of light flirtation.

Whatever this is, I just want it to be over.

 

[dobro p]

If you knew someone else in this position, you'd go easy on them, right? I'm hoping you take the same stance toward yourself. Maybe he doesn't know what he needs to; maybe he's a power-gamer. Dunno. Either way, stone post the situation and spare your heart.

 

[calumet]

Q: Two can play the silence game, and I have been absent from my usual haunts. I have some reason to believe that he has been oh-so-casually looking for me. Is this the right thing?

A: 14.1.2-->56

I'm going dancing.

 

[calumet]

Having gone dancing and forgotten about this melodrama for awhile; and having felt better and worse and hopeful and pessimistic and sick of the whole thing and ready for more, round and round again; and having contemplated the "Why Am I Not Getting This?" thread that's evolved into a discussion of the wreckage left in the wake of broken pair-bonds; having done all this, I sat down with my yarrow stalks today. This was a 4-year relationship. I'm not convinced I've done all I can to pull it out of the fire, and I don't believe for a second that he's sailing through this in any better shape than I am, though we certainly have vastly different ways of displaying and coping with our emotions.

Q: Should I talk to him about how mutually damaging it is to end something like this, and how life is too short and people too precious to just throw a relationship away?

A: 6.6-->47. I read that I need to let it and myself rest some more, and that I am missing or ignoring my own part in what's happening. Anyone?