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18.6 to 46

jte

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Thinking about this change generally in response to some recent posts, it occurs to me that there's a wonderful natural metaphor embedded here:

Arresting decay to SPROUTING. Whatever is decaying in 18 becomes (eventually, when the decay is complete) the fertile soil from which the new thing sprouts and draws it's nourishment.

Does the new thing that sprouts have anything to do with what decayed? Sometimes. For example, a fruit seed might sprout from the decayed fruit or where it is passed from an animal. But in other cases, something simply dies and what sprouts from its (processed) remains is completely new. So, the answer really depends on the particular case.

In addition, in nature decaying material requires a lot of processing before it can be a suitable medium for new growth. Bugs, fungi, etc. Not a pretty sight, but definitely required. Perhaps this is (part of) the significance of the text for this line - in human affairs, a required time of coping/reorganizing/restructuring/working on oneself that is necessary before the person (or the situation) is really ready for the new growth implied in 46.

I'm aware that this is a bit at odds with the "standard" interpretation of 18 - almost like it's for the case where the "arrest/halting" of the decay failed or was unavoidable and the decay carried to completion. Still, I think it's a relevant way to look at this line.

Anyhow, thought I'd share. Happy New Year, all!

- Jeff
 
C

candid

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Hi Jeff,

After reading your thoughts three times, looking for something I must have missed, I agree with what you've said.

In the bigger picture, it makes no difference whether the life which sprouts from decay are of the same species or not. Life is life. This in line with all earth-cultures' religion and myth. Further, I understand your meaning of "Bugs, fungi, etc. Not a pretty sight" but to a bug, fungi or etc, it is a very pretty sight. Everything else, every other perspective is our own temporal conditioning.

I'm always hopeful and optimistic at receiving 18. The most difficult thing for me is thinking something must be done but having no outlet or means to accomplish it. 18 says, ok, now go out and take care of that leaky roof. Till your garden. Wash your truck. Practice your guitar. Meet friends. And for god's sake - get a haircut!

Wishing you a budding and prosperous New Year!
 

jerryd

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All this can be applied to one catagory of action wheather it be animal vegie or mineral it be called a METAMORPHOSIS...HAVE A GREAT NEW YEAR
 

yly2pg1

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The more i read some of the discussions on this board, the more i am convinced there should be a book like "Yi in Biology/Botany" in the near future ...
 
S

seeker

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I had begun to thing of 23 as like a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, but actually that might fit better for 18, since you mentioned metamorphosis. Actually I guess 23 is more like a natural forest fire. The forest appears to be destroyed, but in reality mother nature has just made room for new and expanded growth.
 

jte

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Thanks all for the comments and feedback!

Interesting to compare 18.6 to 23/23.6. I'm pretty sure Gene did a nice discourse on 23.6 back maybe a year or so ago - worth looking up, I'd say, if you're interested in that line.

I think the forest fire analogy for 23 is a good one.

One interesting thing - in human affairs, one would think that for many (difficult) situations either 18 or 23 could apply equally well. So I wonder if the Yi could/would return either hexagram regarding the same question or situation. In other words, what's the difference, really, between these two?

I know that commentaries in both W/B and Legge indicate that 23 is a circumstance where the danger/destruction comes from the outside, where with 18, it's more like internal decay. But I'm not sure how they got that - maybe from looking at the line structures or component hexagrams? (23 sort of looks like all the broken lines massing against the lone solid one...)

And in 23, the top line is supposed to just wait and see how it winds up at the end. While in 18, active resistance is advised the whole way through the hex. But why? What determines this?

And are they really that different - say a metal barrier is rusting away due to exposure to water - is that 23 or 18? Hard to say, for me anyhow.

Any thoughts?
 

jerryd

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I may have stuck my neck in a ringer when I chose metamorphosis as the term of choice earlier. What we are speaking about more resembles reshapeing the landscape not with transforming from one species to another but making room for what is naturally there waiting the opportunitu to have its turn. Sorry to confuse the issue Jeff
 

frank

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Hi Jeff, and others...

At first I wish everyone on this board a healthy and loving year to come, where at least 1 of your dreams may be come true.

Then for the 18 / 23 thing... If I've watched it correctly the chinese character for 18 means something like 'chronical desease'... something you do all the time, you know that you should change that, but it comes up every time, again and again, like a chronical desease that will not go away... It's OK to not get rit of it, as then you should 'receive' 23..., but to HANDLE it... And as for the lines 18 has something to do with things from the past which are not always your own, but could be issues from others (father / mother), which are influencing your rationalities or emotions (as I'm interested in the use of the Yi as an psycholocal tool I see the 'father' and 'mother' also as 'rationality', and 'emotions'... so work, again, and again, on something rational or emotional...)

23 is just here and now... let things go... (and that is so difficult to see, and do when you are in the middle of it :-D)...

18 > Repeating issues to solve about past things
23 > Letting go the issues right here and now...

Is this helpfull?

Hug,
Frank
 

gene

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Hi Jte

I am going to have to look up what I wrote too. I always forget. Anyway. Seems to me, as I glance at all this, superficially anyway, that hexagram 18 refers more to the slow molting change of decay, hexagram 23 to the sudden collapse after decay. Especially line 6. We have in both cases an example of entropy and evolution, and how each follows the other. By putting related hexagrams together, sometimes we can get a clearer picture. The embryonic archetype, or should I say the general image of entropy and evolution is in hexagram pair 63 and 64, but it is more detailed in every pair of hexagrams. Also, in a sense, hexagram one is evolution, hexagram two is entropy, or involution. But in involution itself is also a type of evolution, for the congealing, the freezing, contracting, of the situation, leads to a new form, a new structure. And vice versa. That is why we have changes. It is the law of the universe. Everything changes into its opposite because it IS its opposite.

Gene
 

yly2pg1

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If we look from the "nuclear figures", we can get some clues like:

(1) Hex3,8,20,42 give some clue of what Hex23 is, and vice versa.

(2) Hex11,18,26,46 give clue to what Hex54 is, and vice versa.


(1) About Hex3,8,20,42

What cross my mind about Hex23 in the context (of the discussion here), i could somewhat notice
a 'pattern' which develop from Hex3-->Hex8-->Hex20-->Hex42.

For example, a young plant breaking thru the earth (Hex3), followed by the adaptation with
its environment (grouping/alliance) and a time of 'viewing'or consolidation (partly because the plant grows higher) before its journey of further growth into a tree (increase).

Let's see what happens to the 'line structure' in this process.

From Hex3 --> Hex8
The 1st solid line of Hex3 'diminish' when it changes to Hex8.
The strong footing (nutrient storage) has to be relinquished and
supplied to the rest of the 'body' of the plant for 'adaptation' with outside environment.

From Hex8 --> Hex20
A statue is established. The leaves is grown, faciliating photo-synthesis and overseeing its surrounding.
So a solid line is added to the top line to denote a statue 'in place'.

From Hex20 --> Hex42
A strong statue is not sufficient without a strong network of root on earth, ensuring a constant
supply of nutrient for photo-synthesis,etc.
So a solid line is added to the bottom line to denote a strong network of footage.


Every small step here contributes to a transformation from a plant to a tree. In the process,
the plant strips away the old, embraces the new (Hex23).

(Karcher's translation sounds good, at least for me)
 

yly2pg1

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(2) Hex11,18,26,46

Having outstrip the old image of a tiny young plant(Hex23), a young tree stands out at last
against his environment and natural enemy, achieving 'harmony' with its surroundings (Hex11).
Time has come for him to fulfill his potential (Hex54).


Hex11 --> Hex26

There is no static harmony. Real harmony come about when the young tree pervades and continue to grow.
To do that, the growth is the priority now. Probably, one growth strategy for a plant to sustain growth
is via colonization or expand its area of growth.

So a solid line again is added to the top of the line as a reminder of a growth that come to saturaton point.
That is needed to be 'broken' for further growth. And a great accumulation of energy is required in order
to do that.


Hex26 --> Hex18

At about the same time, come the corruption or decay of the tree, due to its natural enemy, or due to the
outmoded structure of the tree, branches or leaves (which needs to be rid of in order to give way to the
new branches, new leaves and a wider trunck to sustain a wider growth of territory).

Hence, the a solid line in the bottom line (foundation of a time) is changed to broken line, signifying
a corruption in the tree itself. This type of decay may be a healthy process, if a tree is able to cope
well in this period of 'restructuring'.

(Unfortunately i am not a botanist to give a good example of some of the biological mechanism here.)


Hex18 --> Hex46

After a cycle (or cycles) of restructuring where the tree is able to dispose its old branches and old twigs
or old leaves, it bring new opportunities for the new to replace. And the tree gains momentum to advance.

The solid line is broken because the saturation point of growth is removed. New order instituted.


Every step of this growth is a kind of transformation, to realize the inner potentials and to give
form to things (Hex54).
 
P

prynne

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Loosing face in court is a dishonor not known to modern peoples. What if the YiJing is a guide to help the young noble maintain 'face' during the rites of passage. 18.6 is the signal of a noble who has higher motives, and so his fall is ascension, no disgrace. 23.6 is a collapse in which the noble has a vehicle out of the collapse. due to impeccable intentions.
 

gene

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In hexagram 18 work is done to rectify the situation. Hence, on the highest level, line 6, the work is so satisfactory it brings the noble one to a higher station. In hexagram 23, all one can do is stay out of the way of an inevitable collapse. Here too, the noble one receives a carriage. In hexagram 48 the top line of 18 has fallen down into the fifth position. Hexagram 48 in some ways relates to labor. Here too, the top line is very auspicious.

Gene
 

jte

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Thanks to all for the responses. Very interesting to see the variety of perspectives on this...

'Preciate it!


- Jeff
 

bradford_h

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How come nobody is bothering to look at the original image here?
The wind is stopped at the base of the mountain and thrown back on itself. No longer in motion, it gets stale and corrupted.
By the time you get to line six it is ready to go back over the top and get in motion again. One stands above the corruption in the steady winds. This is rising (46) above it all.
 

martin

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I don't know where I got it (maybe I've read it somewhere or invented it myself) but I've come to associate 18 with a stone structure - a building for instance - that rests on a wooden fundament. The fundament is too soft to carry the stone upper structure in the long run. The reverse arrangement in 53 (wood on stone) is better.
So one has to strengthen the fundament somehow and this usually involves going back to the past, to an earlier stage of the building process.

For example, when writing an essay, it might involve looking again at the assumptions that one has made, because as they are they cannot "carry" the conclusions.
Or, psychologically, going back to ones childhood and sometimes literally to the "troubles caused by the father/mother" that are mentioned in the lines.
 

jerryd

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In relation to this Hexagram 18.6 changeing to 46 and not knowing it's original question or persons intent in calling this fourth, may I offer this as an evaluation of it's essence in this reguard:

The Trigram Ken (refered to as bowl of worms), (decay), has an indifference to what lies below,The Trigram for Sun,(wind)which is called indifference in this case.

I propose incertion of the words equalibrium for stagnation and as stagnation has been defined as implied guilt(needing to be addressed) by the guilty I assume. All this draws me to a picture of ancesteral disgrace which is left to the young to make right> as line 6 is involved as changeing here is the setting right of the disgrace>which was not following a command to serve? As line 5 is the remedial tone the Governing ruler it will reform.

Hexagram 46 Sheng, indicates a devotion to advance and to make right.
the middle is strengthened by this movement,
causing a reconciliation with a superior, in the South[ Li Trigram ]fire and summer are indicated to bring good fortune.

Observation: Decomposition creates methane gas from organic material(wind) it seeks a higher level. Not plesant but essential to life above>

It is said that children are born into their parents sins and carry the same responsibility for them as those who commited them so making them responsible to set them right.

18.6>46 full circle as decay releases gas to find hights above mountian? The child ammends his fathers disgrace?
 

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