20.3>53 a.k.a screaming 'til your ears bleed

[beithe]

This is the hex I threw last night for this question...

"Why do I not seem to want to drag my self out of this depression?"

The Yi according to Karcher says that I am viewing, someone else (I don't remember who now) said I was "watching my life from below"

Depression has been a bugaboo my entire life. I sometimes think I have a shadow syndrome of my sisters Bipolar Disorder. I am sure there is a fair share of ADD in my neurochemicals.

In the past 3 years I have sat here and calmly dissembled my life. I was two classes short of a degree in Mental Health and Human Services,a student who worked her tail off for 5 years getting all A's (well there were two nasty little B's.) And I started late in life. I was 45 when I started. Should have been an art major instead but had a deep interest in Psychology. So yeah, now I am 50 and fading out.

The two classes I ran from were math classes. Brick wall time. And an internship somewhere doing something related to my degree program. Already have certification in Substance Abuse Rehab, MHRT II (mental health rehabilitation), and gerontology, Can't get a job because I am 50 and not wet behind the ears. I sit here and look at the thousands of dollars worth of text books I had to buy and I can't even remember if I read them. LOL. I am sure I did but I don't "know" anything anymore.

In the past three months I have bought at least 300.00 dollars worth of books. Everything from the four newest (Yi books) to Von Franz, Jung, and Johnson (because my Shadow is trying to kill me). They sit in shiny piles all over the apartment because I can't focus on anything. White noise, Flight of thoughts, Limping, no concentration whatsoever. Just sitting here taking my life apart stone by stone.

I did get my real estate license. Made a little money with that. Feel like a used car salesman. Not working for a paycheck at the moment. Have two pennies that are getting harder and harder to rub together. I don't seem to care enough to care. Can't even move. This board is almost the only time I get out. And when I come here I feel rather brainless because I don't "know" anything anymore.

Met someone 3 years ago that I was not looking for anymore. Unfortunately he was struggling his way out of a flatlined marriage and is still struggling through the legal crud. So I have taken up watching, viewing, adding it to waiting and I don't seem to be able to stop it, stop it stop it. Will it stop skipping!

Apologies to all. My ears are now bleeding. How 20.3 can you get?

beithe

 

[rosada]

Dear beithe,
You're a good writer, if that's any consolation.
The fan yao line of 20.3 is 53.3 . Might trigger a thought...
Perhaps this experience will later have meaning as you gain insights you will use to help others.

Best wishes,
Rosada

 

[willowfox]

""Why do I not seem to want to drag my self out of this depression?""

Hex 20.3 you are contemplating your life too deeply, so this has lead to a retreat instead of an advance, it seems that you have decided to build your own world where you have wrongly chosen to live. Self pity setting in I think.

Hex 53 it seems that you are lacking the patience to persevere in making the neccessary progress to break the circle. Start to do something, like selling your unwanted and unused books would be a good start.

 

[bruce_g]

Hi Beithe,

You judge yourself pretty harshly. What I think Yi is saying is that, you’re at a crossroad in your life: whether to go the way of seclusion, cloistering yourself to find inner enrichment, or to go out into the world to accomplish something material – or let’s also say, inner or outer relationship development? Neither path is wrong, and the rewards for each is different, as are the challenges. And, there’s nothing that says you can’t do both, to some degree. This is what you have been contemplating? Progress comes gradually, step by step.

 

[beithe]

bruce_g said
there’s nothing that says you can’t do both, to some degree. This is what you have been contemplating?

I think so. It is difficult to know when your head is full of fog. I know I needto do both. One is not going to be satisfactory...if I only have one there is still too much empty. And I have to remember that slow and steady wins the race...my emotional candle burns brightly at both ends all the time and it burns the rest of me out. I can exhaust myself just planning to do something and then it never gets done.

Maybe I should form a question that asks how? I can find the first most important thing to focus on. See? too many words.


Wf said

Hex 53 it seems that you are lacking the patience to persevere in making the neccessary progress to break the circle. Start to do something, like selling your unwanted and unused books would be a good start.

I don't believe it is so much a lack of patience as it is a lack of physical and spiritual energy. I seem to be perservering in depression. I am very patient apparently when it comes to contemplating my own navel. What I need right now on a material level is work. job, filthy lucre,a paycheck and they are scarce as hen's teeth here. I need to start doing something anything.

Selling my books is not an option though I would not recognize me anymore. I may as well sell my children. Amazon would divorce me. On the serious side...I don't think I have a book that I have not read at least twice. There are too many old friends in the other room(s) and I love my "study" books.

What I probably need is a bottle of Prozac. I can feel the manic end coming on apace. I will not buy a book. I will not buy a book.

all good advice well taken
thank you all
beithe
:bag:

 

[heylise]

"Why do I not seem to want to drag my self out of this depression?"

Could it be that it is the depression itself that you need? In order to see something? Contemplating your own life, how it (or you) advances, how it (or you) withdraws. This is the time of year when innumerable people do have depressions, and maybe that is not for nothing. I guess even in stone age many people felt bad in December-Januari. The time when time seems to stand still. Lack of light, so people take light therapy to get out of the depression. It helps them to feel better, but maybe they should also use some of it to look at things. Without some degree of a depression, nobody looks at his life, there is no need because all goes fairly well.
New year is the time for resolutions, for that same reason. It starts with midwinter and Christmas, the end of the year, and the return of the light for the next one. The time to look at your life, so the new year will be ok, and not contaminated by leftovers from the previous one.

You look forward, and you look backward. Advancing, withdrawing. You need to see both, and to do both. Then you find an inner balance and you discover your own powers and skills and loves again. 53: "In dignity and virtue", living your best self, and radiating that towards everyone around you. It is not yet the time to "do" things. In the fanyao (53.3) the woman does get pregnant and the man does go out, but it is too early for seeds to be sown, they cannot possibly germinate yet. The only thing you can do, is defending yourself against whatever 'robs' you. A good defense against bad things is usually to be free of any point of application for them. Being dumb and stupid, and not bothering about that. Having no money and not feeling like a failure. Being 50 and fading out ... so what? Not remembering you read those books - and enjoying all that empty space in your head. You don't seem to "care enough to care" – it feels awful, I can understand that, but maybe it is necessary not to care. At least now, until the time is ripe again to care.

LiSe

 

[bruce_g]

Going to paraphrase what I think LiSe has said, because I think she makes an important point.

Bad or poor feelings become our enemies, but they are so only if they dominate our inner life. A bad or poor feeling can be a catalyst in our growth and healing; just as pain can lead us to awareness of an injury, calling our attention to it.

I remember a comment, made here by someone called Louise, quite long ago. She said something peculiar, like, ‘I welcome down times because I sleep better than when I’m up, positive and enthusiastic.’ That comment really made me rethink the tendency to view down times as a negative thing.

 

[Trojina]

Ah Louise I remember her well

 

[bruce_g]

Ah Louise I remember her well

 

[beithe]

Lise said
Without some degree of a depression, nobody looks at his life, there is no need because all goes fairly well.

Lise I agree that depression causes a person to be more retrospective. But there has to be a time when I say enough is enough... take what I have contemplated and go on with it. That is what I seem unable to do. 3 yrs should be enough for anyone. I think the bottom line is that I have lost faith in myself and I am not really sure how to regain it.

It is not yet the time to "do" things. In the fanyao (53.3) the woman does get pregnant and the man does go out, but it is too early for seeds to be sown, they cannot possibly germinate yet.

maybe this is why I cannot 'go on with it.' The time is not auspicious. The change is germinating but not ready to be born. Nothing comes to birth without pain or even chaos. In the end we only truely appreciate the things in life that do not come easily.

but maybe it is necessary not to care. At least now, until the time is ripe again to care.



not caring is like a shot of novacaine.


bruce_g said

A bad or poor feeling can be a catalyst in our growth and healing; just as pain can lead us to awareness of an injury, calling our attention to it.

So the wise thing to do is to be the acting maestro of our internal orchestra...conducting the negative or painful images into an area of our life symphony
that will being peace and contentment. In this way the Yi may act as your baton. Because it may help you to focus on what needs to be accomplished first. If you are attentive.


trojan said

Ah Louise I remember her well

Every little breeze seems to whisper Louise...?


many thanks to all

beithe :bows:

 

[jesed]

Hi Beithe

Just in case the comment could be of any use

I had a very diferent understanding of your reading

You asked Why you seem to don't want.....

20>53

It is not that you don't want to overcome the depression; it is only that you are in the middle of a gradual process of improvement.

The symbol of 20 is the sacrificial rite; you had fulfill the first part, but hadn't fulfill the second one. This is the most serious and important moment. Don't drop the process right now, you are in the right direction.

Line 3 usually points to a transitional and delicated situation, you are reaching a turning point; that's why it is so risky, but also that's why it is so useful.

So... don't blame yourself... NOBODY (not EVEN YOURSELF) can demand you to overcome this dificult situation in short time (I know you can think that 3 years is not short time, but believe me, related to depression it isn't a long time neither). To achieve this requieres patience and gradual advances (53), but also faith (see Wilhelm's comment on 20's Judgement)

Meanwhile, if it is of any use, my prayers are with you

 

[Sparhawk]

I remember a comment, made here by someone called Louise, quite long ago. She said something peculiar, like, ‘I welcome down times because I sleep better than when I’m up, positive and enthusiastic.’ That comment really made me rethink the tendency to view down times as a negative thing.

Funny, a few weeks ago I wrote a comment in my blog (sorry, is in Spanish) about something I read elsewhere in a friend's blog. The quote is from an overhead comment Terranova wrote about and I'll translate here:

In the stairs where the journalists go to smoke, a girl says to another: "I prefer to be down than to be well. When you are well, you are vulnerable. But when you are down, you are simply indestructible."

L

 

[jesed]

P.S
Re-reading my personal notes, I found that time ago I wrote
"20+53= psicoanalisis; un proceso de autoexamen y autoconocimiento largo y gradual"

("20+53 = freudian analysis; A long and gradual process of self-examination and self-knowledge")

 

[Sparhawk]

P.S
Re-reading my personal notes, I found that time ago I wrote
"20+53= psicoanalisis; un proceso de autoexamen y autoconocimiento largo y gradual"

("20+53 = freudian analysis; A long and gradual process of self-examination and self-knowledge")

Unas notas interesantes, Rodrigo. ¿Qué más tienes por allí que quieras compartir?

L

 

[jesed]

Hola Luis

jaja... justo ahora estoy empezando a preparar la edición de algunas de mis notas personales de estudio.

Mi intención no es hacer una nueva versión o traducción del Yi... ya hay demasiado de eso. Sino sistematizar algunas discusiones particulares sobre temas poco desarrollados... pero aun llevará tiempo concretar el proyecto. Ye te informaré

 

[Sparhawk]

Mi intención no es hacer una nueva versión o traducción del Yi... ya hay demasiado de eso. Sino sistematizar algunas discusiones particulares sobre temas poco desarrollados... pero aun llevará tiempo concretar el proyecto. Ye te informaré

Algo interesante, la verdad. Es una buena tradición la de los serios estudiosos de comentar sobre el I Ching. Espero leerlo algún día. Personalmente, siempre estoy escribiendo comentarios y muy pocos ven la luz pública. En algún momento voy a seguir tu ejemplo.

Un abrazo,

Luis

 

[Sparhawk]

Uh... That was a "Public Service Announcement", brought to you by "Los hemanos coraje"...

L

 

[hexagon]

Perhaps your depression is a portal...

...to help you at this time - to make the necessary shift you so want to make in your life. Here's a snapshot of a link you might find of interest:
Present moment awareness is not a concept; it is an experience. It calls to every one of us in a silent voice that says, “Stop! There is nowhere to go and nothing to do, but there is everything to be.” This is the invitation, this is the journey, and this is the gift The Presence Process makes possible. The present moment is the portal to the answer you are looking for in your quest for inner peace.

The unabridged version(I hope you can read the message and not simply gloss over the contents) is powerful in it's simplicity and for that reason the message may be overlooked. Profound nonetheless. I myself may buy his book. There is a five day course he is offering at Hollyhock, on Cortez Island, BC which I may go to.(Know I have no investment with this group).
http://www.hollyhock.ca/cms/index.cfm?Group_ID=3875

Hope this is of help.

 

[beithe]

jesed said

It is not that you don't want to overcome the depression; it is only that you are in the middle of a gradual process of improvement.


Your right, I think jesed, the process has got to be gone through. I do feel as though I am at a crossroads. Four years ago or so I was definitely in the middle of a spiritual quest, or investigation or some definition that I am missing. And it seemed to have to do with one or two geographical areas that I frequented at the time. Maybe it sounds odd to other people but I felt that these places were centers of power and things happened to me while I was in them that were spiritually deep and emotionally intense. One of these places I had dreamed about for years not knowing where it was (even though I had been there the connection was gone) and lo' four years ago I found myself driving down the actual physical road and recognizing the place in my dream. I felt it was a direction? sign? I don't know it is something I haven't figured out completely. I know two years ago something seemed to flatline spiritually. I feel as though I neglected something I was meant to do. I guess until I find it maybe this is where I will be. But I don't know where to look. And my energy to look is as low as it has ever been in my life. The Yi seems to help me focus. Maybe I should ask about that (duh). What do you think jesed???

Thank you hexagon I am checking this out. The deeper you go....

Sparhawk that is something I believe also, sometimes, maybe that is a woman thing. Maybe it is a healing thing. Like animals that know when they need to hide and heal

But still I feel as though I am missing something important.

mucho gracias (and that is about it)
Via con dios

beithe:bows:

 

[jesed]

Hi Beithe

I would suggest two questions

a) Deeper cause of my depression
b) What can I do now to overcome my depression?

Best wishes