20 - active or passive?

[philippa]

Hi all,

I've been contemplating (!) a lot lately re: 20. The surface meaning seems to give a thinker's or an observer's point of view, i.e., not a lot of action.

Recently, I read a case study about 20 which seemed to suggest how one can approach a problem. This led me to think that 20 can be more agentive/active than I originally had thought. Out of curiosity, I asked for an explanation: is 20 agentive or passive?

I got: 32.1.6 leading to 14.

I have some vague ideas about this answer and I'll come back to it later. In the meantime, anyone who has stories 20 which give a more agentive view of 20?

Philippa

 

[jte]

Yes, it's multi-facted, observer, observing, and observed. Different aspects of this whole tend to stand out depending on our questions/context.

- Jeff

 

[frank_r]

Last week I had twice 20, the first one with 4 and 6 changing into 45.
My question was how to behave with a conversation with the teacher of my son.
Me and my wife asked for a conversation how we could help him at home.
We asked several times for this conversation at his school but the teacher didn't respond. After we asked his mentor to arrange a conversation he made contact.

The contact itself was okee he helped us and my son further.
The part were I could stay in my role as observer, but be at the same time a father in a active role for my son went well. The part I forgot this role went wrong and then we came in the field there was no connection anymore.

Frank R

 

[void]

Hmm very synchronistic for me that this came up.

My mother has a very distressing illness and I have been at a loss to konw exactly how to help.

Medically its been very confusing, nothing helps her much and she is in and out of hospital.

She lives with someone but its clear more support is needed so my plan was to travel to her and stay a day or two each week. Asking about this plan Yi said 41, line 2 changing to 27. Hmm I was quite taken aback by that as I thought maybe that plan wasn't the best way to help.

At my wits end I asked 'how then, what is the best way to help, what action is required of me ?' and got 20,1,3,4 and 5 changing to 30.

Hmm I thought somehow maybe I'm not taking a clear view of this, I need to understand the whole picture more. Phillipas question 'is 20 agentive or passive' was a very real concern for me yesterday. I was puzzled to get 20 in some ways because I thought this is hardly the time to be gazing at my own navel, but on reflection yes I think I needed to step back in some sense to get an overview of the situation.

This morning in desperation, because she is suffering so badly I called the consultant at the hospital, and got more of an idea of how to acivate the local GPs into giving her the equipment she needs to help her. I think 20 was telling me to take a step back and consider the kind of help that was really needed rather than dashing about like a headless chicken.

Who knows how much use my action will be, but thats my recent experience with 20. I'm glad I got it, I think it alerted me to the fact I may be acting on automatic pilot. I suppose its both agentive and passive as in you can't be effectively agentive until you have clear idea of your goal and your means and methods. To get a clear idea may mean sitting down quietly to reflect a while.

Philippa I think 32,1 and 6 could be saying the Yi is not confining 20 to being either/or passive or agentive. It doesn't want to be categorized/put in a hole as either. Those two states of active and passive, yin and yang are inseparable as we know

How did you view the answer ?

 

[void]

Mmm so in both my and Franks example line 4 seems quite literal in going and being a guest of the kingdom, consulting with someone to get a clear picture. With family members you might not see clearly, you just want to alleviate distress and you are so focused on that you lose focus on the whole picture and where you are in it.

 

[lightofdarkness]

20 : "KUAN : contemplate, observe from a distance; look at carefully, gaze at; also: a monestery, an observatory; scry, divine through liquid in a cup. The ideogram: see and waterbird, observe through air and water"ERANOS p268

27-ness described by 03. to 'begin', to 'sprout' by getting past difficulties etc

48-ness described by 18 (source of nourishment is in correcting corruption caused by neglect - the stirring nature gets people off their arses)

63-ness described by 22. The 'correct' focus, steps, is on external facade, to present a 'charismatic' nature that motivates.

I leave the other 61 comments to you ;-)

Top yang line indicates 20 is conditional.

The focus is issues on being an example is complemented by the 'negative' side of being made an example of.
The contemplation angle is on seeing the example and it starts you thinking, motivating.

The pair of 08,20 focuses on admiration. 08 is unconditional.

Traditional Lines:

Line 1
"Seeing without understanding. For a child an innocent act. For a supposedly refined person, a disgrace."

Line 2
"Narrow contemplation. For some, all that is needed. Enough to understand, not too much to threaten.(Foundations)"

Line 3
"Self contemplation. To push on, one first needs to pull back and review. (Regenerate)"

Line 4
"One contemplates the glories of one's kingdom and uses others, if necessary, to enhance." Using the Quality Matrix, where hexagram 45 is the influence on the line position, this line can be interpreted as - "contemplating the nature of the city, its brilliance, its reflection of power [note the ease in association of city to a mass of people, an assembly/congregating, symbolised by hexagram 45] can be insightful in that it reflects how even visiting strangers can sense the ability to almost reach the highs of the emperor, the source of all power in the state" The focus here reflects the underlying influence of the 'joy' of hexagram 45 (linked to 45s top trigram), the high one can get off a crowd intent on celebration. Here the 'high' comes from the city itself where even strangers can experience the 'high' regardless of social interactions; the city itself can 'lift' one.

Line 5
"Contemplating a life's work (sprouting of seeds), and it's effects on the people."

Line 6
"Contemplating one's work, we notice that which is not yet complete within our heart."

 

[lightofdarkness]

BTW - the trigrams are:

base, earth - devotion to another/others
top, wind - becoming influencial

Thus "with/from devotion one becomes influencial"

 

[heylise]

The old chatacter had only the left part, a picture of a bird, either with big eyes, or with a crest. The right part, a person with a big eye, "to see", was added later, it specifies which kind of 'bird' was meant. The old character probably included also the meanings which this bird has with other 'specifiers'.

The meanings of the bird-character are: a heron, a sparrow, see, look, regard, cause to see, show, observe, behold, inspect, to display, point of view, conception, aspect, scene, sight, a beautiful sight (said of a big catch of fish), look-out tower, Daoist monastery or temple or shrine, embellish oneself, to travel for pleasure, grave mound, high tower, high terrace for worship, examine.

With other 'specifiers' it adds something which can best be described by 'wisdom', so the bird seems to be like the Western 'owl': the wise observer and advisor. With 'strength' it means to advise: wisdom for action. With 'heart' devoted or content: wisdom in the heart. With 'fire' a ritual torch. Here, with 'see': seeing with wisdom, not acting but observing, comparing, seeing with understanding.
Guan Yin (yin means sound) is the goddess of mercy, she who contemplates the prayers.

LiSe

 

[heylise]

Take a look here for more information about Guan. Good!

Harmen about Guan

LiSe

 

[philippa]

Hi Void and Frank,

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad that things work out for both of you within the context of 20... Your stories are exactly the type of "action-based" stories I was thinking of. They are extremely informative.

Void,

What do I think of 32.1.6? Well, my answer was along the same line as yours. But I also had a more personal reading of it. I felt like Yi was also reprimanding me for not sitting still. (It's probably clear by now from my postings that I'm not good at sitting about.)

Chris,

I often think about the pair 8, 20. The "admiration" focus is interesting. I see it in 20 but it's not as clear in 8. Could you elaborate?

LiSe,

Thank you for reminding me about the different senses of Guan. I was completely unaware of the "bird" connection because I always write it in the simplified form (the left side is simplified, which still looks like a bird with two wings, but the two gawking eyes are gone).

Finally, re: "Guan Yin". Transcending sensory boundary is interesting. It sounds (!) to me that "guan" is also about thinking outside the box.

Philippa

 

[heylise]

I love that, "thinking outside the box". It gives Guan a simple direct meaning, much easier to apply to daily things than "wisdom" or "understanding", and yet encompassing them.
But giving them a meaning outside the uh, well, outside the box these words are usually placed in.

Talking about the wisdom of a baby, a dog, a lunatic, it asks for a kind of understanding even before you start talking. Feels new-agey. But saying they think 'outside the box' gives new openings.

LiSe

 

[lightofdarkness]

08 "PI : order things and put them in classes, compare and select; find what you belong with; compare, sort, examine correspondances; select and harmonize; unite. The ideogram: person who stops walking, looking around to examine and compare."ERANOS p160

This covers the attraction of the court, the king et al. People come to the court, the court does not go to them - and so the attracting nature as admiring nature of 'someone' in the center of things but being passive (and so comments in the line about issues in attracting the 'wrong' people). This attraction also covers the 'finding what you belong with' etc.

The trigrams read "With devotion (to another/others - earth in base) comes control (water in top)"

The yin top line makes 08 unconditional.

27-ness is described by 42 - the sense of augmentation, increase.

48-ness is described by 46 and so the focus on increased entanglement.

Traditional Lines:

Line 1
"To be capable of unity requires sincerity. This may be all one has at the start."

Line 2
"The desire for unity must come from the heart not from the mind, as may be found in an opportunist."

Line 3
"There are times when we attract the wrong people. Be sociable but not intimate."

Line 4
"One's firm relationship with outside people is tested. A favourable result." In ordering the unfamiliar, in uniting things, setting a sense of 'belonging', one must possess the unfamilar, encapsulate it, and through firm actions ensure all you get into the group is the 'wheat'. This action will be to one's advantage.

Line 5
"A wise and receptive [trusting] ruler. Those who come and are suited stay. Those who wish to, can leave. These options are controlled by the people rather than the ruler."

Line 6
"Without a solid centre of attraction (head), unity fails. There is no 'completion' in that things end through dispersion; Blown away in the wind."