22.1.2 > 18 sexual chemistry

[gato]

Ginnie... that makes sense about 31, if you read all of gato's posts one would think its about one thing and one thing only

according to dr. Freud it is about one thing and one thing only

 

[ginnie]

and what did I get

18 unchanging...

There's a lot of stuff that needs fixing and repairing, so just start anywhere ...

 

[ginnie]

according to dr. Freud it is about one thing and one thing only

Although some still do study Freud in the West, Freudian analysis has, generally speaking, been discarded here as a therapeutic technique. It wasn't found to be effective.

Did Freud ever cure anybody with Freudian analysis? I really don't know and am asking that question in all sincerity.

Trained psychotherapists, while they are aware of Freudian theories, have moved on in many ways. Time passes. The Victorian era passed into the modern world.

 

[sooo]

Did Freud ever cure anybody with Freudian analysis? I really don't know and am asking that question in all sincerity.

I don't know if anyone is ever cured from the experiences which formed our behaviors from very early on, but discovering their origins is fundamental. In more contemporary terms, it's a matter of how far down the rabbit hole one wishes to go. (the hatter went mad for a reason down there)

I don't think Freud's work has ever been 100% accepted or rejected, but that it provides a fundamental framework to develop upon, which for me is what Jung, Campbell and some of today's more open minded physicist explorers have taken on. Reading of Jung's reaction to Freud's exclamation that his work must become dogma, is the stuff of Campbell's mythological hero and its ancient associations, far predating Freud, yet not contradicting his most basic premises.

I believe this is very relevant to the original topic/question: "22.1.2 > 18 sexual chemistry", assuming one wishes to go down that rabbit hole.

 

[Trojina]

Although some still do study Freud in the West, Freudian analysis has, generally speaking, been discarded here as a therapeutic technique. It wasn't found to be effective.

Did Freud ever cure anybody with Freudian analysis? I really don't know and am asking that question in all sincerity.

Trained psychotherapists, while they are aware of Freudian theories, have moved on in many ways. Time passes. The Victorian era passed into the modern world.

But, hang on... most of the concepts used in any kind of psychotherapy are derived from Freud.

Many of the words we use in everyday speech come directly from him


For example we may say someone 'projects' onto another...well the idea of projection was one of Freuds named 'defense mechanisms'.

Same for the idea of 'denial', 'repression', sublimation, ideas of the unconscious, subconscious, the mediation between those of the ego. And don't forget Freud was one of the first to actually pay any attention to the inner processes of 'hysterics' as they used to call some kinds of what we now call 'mental illness'. Freud also was one of the first to give any importance to dreams in treating those suffeirng with mental problems

So although I agree pure Freudian psychoanalysis is pretty much defunct more or less every kind of current psychotherapy is based on his work and his ideas whether its acknowleged or not.


We wouldn't even speak of 'unconscious motives' if it weren't for Freud...nor look to early childhood for sources of trauma etc.

I did study Freuds case studies but can't even remember whether they were 'cured' or not ...but then do psychotherapists ever 'cure' anyone ? is a mind something that can be 'cured' by someone else Sometimes seems to me some of the less well qualified ones, of which there are many in this country, charge money to convince people that their parents are the source of all their troubles in life and then, having destroyed the family leave them to get on with it. Sometimes people can need 'curing' from their psychotherapists lol

 

[chingching]

hahaha. yeah I like freud, his work was a huge contribution to human knowledgde and a lot of his theories and methods through being popularised are widely misunderstood.

I had to study a lot of freud , but enjoyed jung more...but if it were not for the ground Freud broke jung wouldn't have followed.

That aside I think gato may have just added that comment in humour rather than seriousness. Freud did think about one thing and one thing only

 

[rodaki]

mmm, Trojan, as much as I agree with the outline of what you're saying, Freud was not the only one, or the first one in his field . . there were precursors to what he was trying to do, he himself was the student of Charcot (just the first of many results if you google their names) and he worked with a number of people who vastly influenced his writings and have gone by without that much recognition.

I think that what Freud did with promoting a different approach of 'disease' would happen one way or another and Freud happened to be the first who consciously pushed for publicizing and establishing these ideas. Not only that, but he was quite obsessed with getting psychology recognized as a scientific method, and for it -and himself- to gain recognition equal to any other science (maybe that was why he used the -ology ending? To stress the rationality of the method? Just wondering . .)

I don't mean to say that what he did wasn't avant-garde and doesn't carry his signature but I think it also carries the shadows of it too . . just like Jung's work carries Jung's shadows.
Imo both their work have set examples to both follow and avoid . . cause deep down there cannot be a set manual for discovering our own world within. There are signposts and suggestions and the results of those who took their rides and came back to share their findings, but all these need to be taken off their pedestals after a point for each one of us to be able to see things for what they are for us and not just projections of their works . .


edit: ah, cross posted with chingching

 

[Trojina]

mmm, Trojan, as much as I agree with the outline of what you're saying, Freud was not the only one, or the first one in his field . . there were precursors to what he was trying to do, he himself was the student of Charcot (just the first of many results if you google their names) and he worked with a number of people who vastly influenced his writings and have gone by without that much recognition.

yes I know he was a student of Charcots, I didn't actually say he was the first or only one I said "he was one of the first" if you reread my post

I think that what Freud did with promoting a different approach of 'disease' would happen one way or another and Freud happened to be the first who consciously pushed for publicizing and establishing these ideas. Not only that, but he was quite obsessed with getting psychology recognized as a scientific method, and for it -and himself- to gain recognition equal to any other science (maybe that was why he used the -ology ending? To stress the rationality of the method? Just wondering . .)

I don't mean to say that what he did wasn't avant-garde and doesn't carry his signature but I think it also carries the shadows of it too . . just like Jung's work carries Jung's shadows.
Imo both their work have set examples to both follow and avoid . . cause deep down there cannot be a set manual for discovering our own world within. There are signposts and suggestions and the results of those who took their rides and came back to share their findings, but all these need to be taken off their pedestals after a point for each one of us to be able to see things for what they are for us and not just projections of their works . .


edit: ah, cross posted with chingching

I think Freud was incredibly avant garde. He was of course obsessed with sex becasue he worked and lived at a time where sex was taboo, a repressed subject, where piano legs were covered as they were considered indecent. At that time supression of sexuality probably did cause a great deal of ills and he came out and said it. I do not think he was so dogmatic as he's made out to be as towards the end of his life he reconsidered his earlier ideas.

So while I don't think he was the only one or the first in the territory I have great respect for him as a pioneer in the field and I do think we owe much to him today. he was incredibly precise and thorough..and did put psychology on the map as a subject to study

Jung I can take or leave really. I never really felt he had that much new to say. In fact it was the one thing Frank Keegan and I agreed on. Frank used to say, I think, that Jung pretty much misrepresented or misunderstood eastern philosophies. At least I recall Frank arguing once over Jungs interpretation of a mandala and I agreed with him.


Thats what I seem to recall anyway, I could have missed the finer points of his argument so stand to be corrected on that

 

[Trojina]

Freud did think about one thing and one thing only

he did also have this idea we have 'morbido' as well as 'libido'. Libido being I think life instinct including sexual urges...morbido the innate wish to die and dissolve ...hmmmm

I thought that was kinda interesting we should have this strong primal wish to die as well as to live...but I think he may have discarded that theory in later years

 

[rodaki]

. . ok, sorry if I sounded patronizing but I get a reactive reflex when too many praises of Freud are heard . . maybe because I think that deep down he was very much what he was working against and it shows all too heavily in the way he constructed his writings . . but, there you have it, maybe after all, only someone like him could be the one to openly go against Viennese morals . .

 

[chingching]

well he was a taurean...

 

[gato]

reading your other thread 31 under the pillow was a good thing...

 

[Trojina]

. . ok, sorry if I sounded patronizing but I get a reactive reflex when too many praises of Freud are heard . . maybe because I think that deep down he was very much what he was working against and it shows all too heavily in the way he constructed his writings . . but, there you have it, maybe after all, only someone like him could be the one to openly go against Viennese morals . .

oh no I didn't think you sounded patronising..my virgo rising was just urging me to point the detail Yes i realise his downside, studied him from feminist perspective at college alongside all that complex Lacanian stuff i can't even recall much about know but our teacher was also very good at showing how much impact he had had on things...and I grew to see him sometimes as too often dismissed, or misrepresented. But then theres alot I don't know about him I'm sure

 

[chingching]

with all this freud talk and learning that trojan has virgo rising my head is spinning out of control.

reading your other thread 31 under the pillow was a good thing...

I'm lost!

However I was reading a lot about hex 29 last night, and what was my dream about, well....

I was on another planet and there was a huge lake and I wanted to go in it but an omnipresent voice told me that if anything went into to the lake it would completely empty because it was newly formed and hadn't a proper base but If I went to another location there was a an area in which I could enter. So on my way there I stopped off in a bedroom that had a three tiered bunk bed which looked out towards earth and was as big as a cliff face, and I had a nap there and watched earth rise in the morning. Then I went to this area where I could enter the huge lake and went in following a group of people learning how to fish and as soon as I went in I started sinking to the bottom feeling this huge pull all around me, I was in complete panic. And then I felt something pushing me to the top, but this scared the #$%^ out of me as well as I thought it was some kind of monster trying to get me but when I reached the top it was a friendly seal with beautiful eyes, and then the seal told me that if I just flip over onto my back I can float safely on the top and go wherever I want.

such a pleasant dream!

 

[anemos]

Then I went to this area where I could enter the huge lake and went in following a group of people learning how to fish and as soon as I went in I started sinking to the bottom feeling this huge pull all around me, I was in complete panic. And then I felt something pushing me to the top, but this scared the #$%^ out of me as well as I thought it was some kind of monster trying to get me but when I reached the top it was a friendly seal with beautiful eyes, and then the seal told me that if I just flip over onto my back I can float safely on the top and go wherever I want.

such a pleasant dream!

lovely. the two sides of 29,imo

 

[sooo]

with all this freud talk and learning that trojan has virgo rising my head is spinning out of control.


I'm lost!

However I was reading a lot about hex 29 last night, and what was my dream about, well....

I was on another planet and there was a huge lake and I wanted to go in it but an omnipresent voice told me that if anything went into to the lake it would completely empty because it was newly formed and hadn't a proper base but If I went to another location there was a an area in which I could enter. So on my way there I stopped off in a bedroom that had a three tiered bunk bed which looked out towards earth and was as big as a cliff face, and I had a nap there and watched earth rise in the morning. Then I went to this area where I could enter the huge lake and went in following a group of people learning how to fish and as soon as I went in I started sinking to the bottom feeling this huge pull all around me, I was in complete panic. And then I felt something pushing me to the top, but this scared the #$%^ out of me as well as I thought it was some kind of monster trying to get me but when I reached the top it was a friendly seal with beautiful eyes, and then the seal told me that if I just flip over onto my back I can float safely on the top and go wherever I want.

such a pleasant dream!

Awesome dream.

SEAL - helps us listen to our inner voice. Using our imagination, creativity. The seal reminds us of our connection to our deep inner rhythms, feelings, and knowing, as represented by the sea. When we fear drowning in these depths, Seal reminds us how to swim. http://www.theearthangelconnection.com/Power Animals.htm

 

[rodaki]

oh no I didn't think you sounded patronising..my virgo rising was just urging me to point the detail Yes i realise his downside, studied him from feminist perspective at college alongside all that complex Lacanian stuff i can't even recall much about know but our teacher was also very good at showing how much impact he had had on things...and I grew to see him sometimes as too often dismissed, or misrepresented. But then theres alot I don't know about him I'm sure

aha, Virgo rising, yes it makes sense . . would it be redundant to say I have Sag rising?? aw well, crabs!! (this reminded me those crab animation clips on youtube but on reverse )


chingching really, that was a beautiful dream, I think you could write a children's book like that . It sounds like to get to your lake you had to become like the water of 39 and find your way . . and your seal story, very much like 38.6, calling you to turn upside down and get away from danger, really sweet . .

 

[Trojina]

aha, Virgo rising, yes it makes sense . . would it be redundant to say I have Sag rising?? aw well, crabs!! (this reminded me those crab animation clips on youtube but on reverse )


. .

(sagittarius ? I need a handbook on saggitarius, I can't understand them at all ...me and sagittarious need an interpreter to have a conversation }

 

[chingching]

back to the dream...

It then reminded me today of a doco that I love, the bridge, its about people who jump off the golden gate bridge. I hope this isn't too much of a spoiler for those who haven't seen it but one of the interviewees told his story of how he came to jump off the bridge. Half way through the air he decided that he didn't really want to be doing this so he positioned himself to hit the water feet first. When he broke the surface of the water (and several vertebrae in his back) he started sinking down and couldn't tell where the top of the water was, and then he feel something pushing him back up to the surface. At first he thought it was a shark and thought, great I didn't die jumping off the bridge...now I'm going to be eaten by a shark! But when he got to the surface, the rescue team that scooped him up told him that a seal was circling below his feet, which had taken him up to the surface and kept him afloat until they got there. true story!

 

[angeleyes]

Beautiful dream...really..almost feel jealous it wasn't mine

They say that when you're in the sea and you panic for whatever reason it may be, instead of flipping your arms and legs up and down ( which would probably make things a lot worse ), you should just relax, lie on your back and let your body float..

I don't think i have something new to add here as a comment. That part about the seal in soo's post is really interesting too...

I'm sure you can safely float in that lake of thoughts and emotions right now.

 

[chingching]

thanks angeleyes!

I think it gave me a sense of the other side of 29 that I've about in the posts here, which I since getting into the yijing I dont think I've actually felt...I've definitely felt the fearful side of it though.

 

[ginnie]

Sometimes people can need 'curing' from their psychotherapists lol

Our inner workings are so fascinating that people with enough money can go on and on with talking therapy for decades. I know a woman who had two complete Freudian analyses -- and she said that she emerged at the end with the same symptoms she had at the beginning.

Talking by itself never cured anybody. Yet people are cured of nervous symptoms all the time. I'm not saying Freud wasn't an important breakthrough figure. Science never had a place for the unconscious mind before Freud. I really don't think Freud's intention was to cure the patients he saw. Rather, he was studying them to understand how their minds worked. Maybe at the beginning, when he was still doing hypnosis, he had some degree of effectiveness at alleviating the symptoms of his patients. They weren't doing studies of the effectiveness of various forms of therapies way back then. Those were the pioneering days of 'depth psychology.'

 

[chingching]

I did a stint of therapy, I think it provided me with a stabilising influence whilst I was going out of control. But the things that have really changed me have been through relationships, of all sorts....but I'm generation pluto in libra so...

The end of this story is that I have been in contact with mr. 22 > 18 via email and there is a heart connection there but nothing else. Mr. 25 > 35 has eclipsed him, which is good because I was ultimately ambivalent about the musician, and I hate that head space. I'm pretty sure he picked up on this too. And I'm pretty sure that he thought I was charming but that he wasn't into me that way.

 

[chingching]

too true. I guess I have trouble facing the.. how? how? how? Last night I went and saw black swan and it beautifully illustrates a woman bringing both the dark and light aspects of herself together, the swan queen and the black swan. It felt really ... apt I guess... that I went and saw it.

Trojan, I did indeed sleep with hex 18 literally under my pillow, and along with the jumping woman I also dreamt that I was in a crumbling castle at night with cesar milan (the dog whisperer) and he said to me , wait for the eclipse in scorpio, and I said oh that will be in my tenth house, and he said oh you have a scorpio tenth house ! hahaha. Funny thing was I looked up the eclipses this year in the morning and in nov there is an eclipse in sagitarrius, which still happens to be in my tenth house.

Last night I slept with 57 under my pillow and I cant remember the dream at all, which is irregular because I usually have vivid dreams. All I know is that it felt really good and I did not want to wake up from it.

Ginnie, I agree and what you said is also relates cpickard's quote too. And in a way fixing everything, or learning what I was never taught will have to include cleaning out the wasteland of thoughts I have, so i think what trojan said fits in too.

If anyone is interested I asked three more questions about getting past this blockage I suppose:

what can I do to progress with this man:

2 unchanging (um.... nothing, or more positively, just be)

what can I do next time I see him to bring this dynamic between us ( i admit this question is similar to the first one):

2.2.5 > 29

be with my fears with sincerity and modesty. hmmm

Why cant I show that side of my self to him:

2.2.4.6 > 64 (need to take a final step or something, this one confused me, or maybe the i ching was tired of me asking practically the same question)

I any case after all of this I don't know when I'll see him again as he is going on a tour with his band (musicians!!!) and then he going overseas travelling indefinitely... so... I have had positive readings about him but the reality is I don't think anything else will happen but its been good to have the opportunity to work on myself I guess.

I have been looking back at old threads to correalte meanings and see developments and for anyone that's interested on Nov 25th last year I met cesar milan, with my dog nyx who I got in june 2010, at his show in my home town, which my sister signed me up for and that was the night of the partial solar eclipse, so the dream from jan 2011 was literally prophetic. Its a pity Bruce isn't here anymore , he was the only one who knew who the dog whisperer was.

As for the 22 > 18 I noted I started this thread i think jan 30 last year and since the end of Jan this year this whole senario has started up for me again. From this thread I had worked on my own alien influences and had been at peace with it,, in that I literally saw how I was undermining myself. And nothing else happen with the man in question and I had moved on to other things. But now I'm back where I started but i'll say I'm better at recognising my own hidden thoughts, well they are not so hidden any more. ...eh, what ya going do hey? I'm only human I just hope that this isn't an indicator of what every January will be focussed on from now on.

 

[itsyourlife]

great thread!! thanks

My close friends have never understood my taste in men, I definitely like to pick up stray dogs and help them. Mainly they all have self esteem issues, the same as mine, so I suppose like attracts like. I have always struggled with attraction though, at times I find all men attractive and I often think so who am I allowed to be attracted to, supposed to be attracted to? What are the rules? A part of me actually doesn't mind the idea of arranged marriage.... but the rest of me says no.

As an update the nutty musician, who's actual job is in social services... is a no go on the romance front but something is there... maybe its just a heart connection.

Hi chingching,

First let me say, I really enjoy reading your posts. This thread slipped by me until just now.

After I shook it all up and let it settle again onto 22.1.2 > 18, I think Yi is saying you should work on your taste in guys for your own good.

What first caught my attention was your dream's use of the figure of Cesar Milan. Very interesting that he spoke in a language which you found easy to understand, even though I've never heard him mention astrology. But he does speak and hear the language of dogs, which is a more primal kind of language. That may be relevant. Was he pointing out a personality trait, perhaps regarding your attraction to nutty musicians, who are attracted only to women that he can't have? Wondering if there's some self-sabotage in this movie.

thanks for the updates. these "only" heart connections, so much longing.
i wish to see my current heart connection re-actualize itself into a relationship again. le sigh.

anyway thank you for this thread, its great,
these quotes remind me of a song, and compelled me to post.
i got the reverse for a question that prompted me here
18.1.2 > 22 "how can i influence him to stay over"

http://youtu.be/91G048QPYhI

Follow Me Down- UNKLE

You're wondering if it's worth it
You're wondering what to do
You're asking me to see the future
And you want me to tell it to you
See, I can't believe it myself
So how can I prove it to you?
That this is all a dream

Okay follow me down
Come on you can trust me now
Okay follow me down
You can trust me now

Recurring thoughts of separation
Ones in which we are all alone
What keeps a heart from feeling homeless
Everywhere we look we see ourselves
I'm not inclined to think in braided spirals
I know I wasn't always this way
What do I do and is it really worth it?

Okay follow me down
Come on you can trust me now
Okay follow me down
Come on you can trust me now
Okay follow me down
You can trust me now