27. Memorizing the I Ching I/ The Corners of the Mouth (Providing Nourishment)

[bruce_g]

View attachment 310

 

[bruce_g]

You're not the only one Bruce, in all these years I've never seen 'corners of the mouth' as the title of this hexagram. Infact initially I wondered what the heck Rosada was talking about - till I looked at Wilhelm. Weird isn't it, that neither of us ever saw that through years of referencing it

It reminds me of a seminar I once attended. Into the session for awhile, the speaker instructed everyone to remove their watch, and to study it carefully, every detail. He then said to put the watch back on - and without looking at the watch a second time, to write the time down on a sheet of paper. No one knew what time it was.

 

[bradford]

Hi Brad,
As I said, more than likely I'm using the radicals concept the wrong way, but this picture shows what I'm talking about. If you have the patience, someday, you can tell me how to spot the radicals. I find that in many cases they are not so obvious.
L

Yes, I see how that could be confusing. There's really no way but to memorize them and slowly get familiar with where they tend to appear in the characters. 75 is usually on the bottom, as it is in duo3, but also on the left. Some are always on top, some always on the left. What Wieger's calling the primitive is not the same as a radical. The character he calls its derivative is radical 79. The radical is the part that so often (but not Nearly always) helps to shape the meaning. The other part part in two part characters often helps with pronunciation. You're not likely to be surprised to learn that nothing about Chinese is easy. People think there are good rules of thumb and it just ain't so. That's what makes etymology so deceptive - it's only really useful a small percentage of the time.

 

[dobro p]

If the corners of your mouth turn up its a smile, if they turn down its a frown. Turned down corners equal unhappy expression I guess.

That would add an emotional element to 27. I like it. Almost like good feelings as nutrition.

 

[dobro p]

Line 27.1 indeed refers to the lips turning down, which is fairly obvious, but I think dobro was asking why the WHOLE HEXAGRAM is known as "The Corners of the Mouth". Reviewing Wilhelm's comments, it seems to me the "Corner" we are refering to here, is actually the hinge of the jaw. The upper part of the mouth, like the mountain trigram, is still. It is the lower part of the mouth, the jaw, that moves and it can move because of the hinge. Thus in determining if one should speak or not speak, eat or not eat, they are considering if they should or should not move the hinge at The Corners of The Mouth.

Yes, you've got it. I like the emotional spin that Trojan put on it though. I like it. Call me a revisionist. Cuz then it has the meaning of 'what you feed yourself on in order to be happy'. That takes me back into the meaning of the 'quality of the nutrition'. Useful for examing the conditioning in me.

'Why you reaching for that again, dobro - you really like it? Or do you just *think* you like it? And is it *really* gonna make you happy, is that what you think?'

I just love a *useful* spin when it comes time for a spin.

But you've got it yeah, for sure. Good one, Rosada. I'm thinking the meaning might then also include the idea of 'controlling what you say for the sake being happy'.

 

[getojack]

Brad and Luis,

Well, given the confusion and differing opinion surrounding the subject, I now feel confident thinking of it as "observing my flapping jaw." Thank you Luis and Brad for the enlightening etymological discussion.

 

[dobro p]

Brad and Luis,

I now feel confident thinking of it as "observing my flapping jaw."

Did you observe a search for meaning in the flapping?

 

[dobro p]

That's what makes etymology so deceptive - it's only really useful a small percentage of the time.

I'll quote you on that, I think. It frees me up to follow my favorite principle when trying to figure out the Yi: which meaning has the most likely and usefully signficant meaning? That's the one. The etymology's good for nudging your imagination in a useful direction though sometimes.

 

[Trojina]

That would add an emotional element to 27. I like it. Almost like good feelings as nutrition.

When I wrote that though I thought we were talking about 27.1 - I had no idea Wilhelm called 27 'corners of the mouth' at the time so i didn't get why everyone was going on about it.

 

[Sparhawk]

Thanks, Brad.

You're not likely to be surprised to learn that nothing about Chinese is easy. People think there are good rules of thumb and it just ain't so. That's what makes etymology so deceptive - it's only really useful a small percentage of the time.

Oh, God, no. And amen to that.

L

 

[Sparhawk]

"observing my flapping jaw."

I keep trying to picture a "flapping jaw" and the only image that keeps recurring in my mind is that of the unstoppable chattering of a teenage girl... (I've one at home...)

L

 

[bruce_g]

I keep trying to picture a "flapping jaw" and the only image that keeps recurring in my mind is that of the unstoppable chattering of a teenage girl... (I've one at home...)

L

The backyard neighbor's dog never stops yapping. There's also an old lady down the street, with a house full of parrots and other more exotic birds. It's really funny when she yells at them, because their voices all sound alike: SHUT UP!! BRRAAAEEK!!

 

[heylise]

The character itself is very simple: chin and head.

The meaning is, apart from jaws, also what one does with one’s cheeks. There are several expressions which clarify these meanings: yí zhi, literally 'point with the cheeks', means being bossy: to signify one's intentions to subordinates by twisting the cheeks; yí shén, cheek spirit: to rest one's mind or heart, to have a mental relaxation.
Same character but pronounced SHEN3: raise the eyes to look at someone. So Worm-yi was quite close with his expression.

LiSe

 

[rosada]

THE LINES

Nine at the beginning means:
You let your magic tortoise go,
And look at me with the corners of the mouth drooping.
Misfortune.

The magic tortoise is a creature possessed of such supernatural powers that it lives on air and needs no earthly nourishment. The image means that a man fitted by nature and position to live freely and independently renounces this self-reliance and instead looks with envy and discontent at others who are outwardly in better circumstances. But such base envy only arouses derision and contempt in those others. This has bad results.

"You ...look at me with corners of your mouth drooping": this is really not to be respected.

Structurally the whole hexagram recalls the trigram Li, the Clinging, hense the image of the tortoise.
The hexagram contains three ideas--nourishing self, nourishing others, and being nourished by others. The strong line at the top, the ruler of the hexagram, provides nourishment for others. The weak middle lines are obliged to depend on others to provide them with nourishment. The strong line below SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE NOURISHMENT FOR ITSELF (The magic tortoise needs no earthly food but can nourish itself on air). Instead, however, it too moves toward the general source of nourishment and wants to be fed with the rest. This is contemptable and disastrous. "You" is the nine at the beginning, "me" is the nine at the top.
--Wilhelm

 

[dobro p]

27.1 is wrong sense of 'I'.

In 27.1 'I' thinks it's separate from magic tortoise, higher mind, whatever you want to call it - it thinks it's needy and requires nourishment from a higher source. But the truth is that the source is within and accessible here and now.

27.1 is delusion about what 'I' really am.

 

[Sparhawk]

Nah... I believe in ancient China, tortoises were always considered "magical" in some way. Most likely the stupid diviner, before a session for the Emperor, misplaced the tortoise designated for the divination. The Emperor, who has a very short fuse, is not happy. The poor diviner's face is showing his feelings and most likely, his lips are not the only thing dropping...

L

 

[Sparhawk]

BTW, 27.1 goes to 23... Someone is going to get some "stripping"...

L

 

[Trojina]

Did someone once point out 27.1 is one of the few places the Yi refers to itself as in 'you look at me with corners of mouth drooping'.

When one gets this line the Yi is telling you to ***** off and stop bugging it and go figure it out for yourself and quit your whining yes ? lol

 

[dobro p]

The first person singular in the Yi seems sometimes to be the querent, sometimes the 'voice of the Yi'. In 27.1, it seems to be the voice of the Yi.

 

[Sparhawk]

Just to picture this poor guy...

More at: 27.1>23 In my site you can always click on the picture for a bigger, more readable version.

L

 

[rosada]

I was thinking a long the same lines, Trojan, it's like the I Ching is saying, "Look you have all this knowledge in you now (You attained the way of heaven in hex 26.6!) and yet you're still coming ot me begging for answers?! Does everything have to be spoon fed? Can't you do a little bit of chewing?" Perhaps IC is put off because It knows that without young seekers seeking It's wisdom It'd be out of a job too (27.1 > 23 Splitting Apart -"Those above can ensure their position only by giving generously to those below."), so the seeker is not completely shut off, but is given a little clue as to where to look for answers, ie. within.
Anyway, I think of 27.1 as someone saying, "Don't just beg, ask for a job, make me an offer, you wont be refused."

On a personal note, last week we started painting our cabin. We considered making changes but finally decided to just paint it brown again and to only add a cream trim to the eves and windows. I consulted IC about our choices. For painting the whole place brown I got 15, which I thought was perfect and it has turned out to be a good color. Then I asked about the trim and received 27.1. Didn't know what to make of that, so said nothing. Well...turns out I hate the trim. I should have spoken up. I had my chance. Now I'm drooping. So I see 27.1 as meaning "You've got a brain, use it!" and, "Speak up now..or forever hold your peace."

 

[bradford]

The first person singular in the Yi seems sometimes to be the querent, sometimes the 'voice of the Yi'. In 27.1, it seems to be the voice of the Yi.

The first person is used 13 times, but only three times this way (at 04.0 and 48.3 too) referring to itself. It's seen in quotes, rhetorical questions and other ways too.
You can survey the other ten uses by "finding" 4778 in my Matrix PDF

 

[frank_r]

Last weekend I worked together with my neighbour on the roof of my house, he is already 64. He helped me with making a roof terrace. This has always been his job and he knows a lot more about fixing roofs than I do. But he also thinks somebody else who's not doing this kind of work, can't think in that direction so he is giving a lot of orders and when something goes wrong he will usually shout as if you are really stupid.
So I asked the Yi; what is the best attitude working together with him. I recieved 27 first line changing into 23.

When I spoke out for myself, that if I did something wrong he didn't have to shout to me his attitude changed. And for most of the time we worked a lot better together.
He still gave orders but was also consulting me when something was not so obvious.

27 is in acupuncture the karmic hexagram of galbladder. The galbladder is the meridian in the chinese clock that has to do the time around midnight (from 23.00 till 01.00 ). It has a very strong yang energy. It's is the energy that can make something start, it is the energy of courage, Galbladder belongs to wood, the begining of the season spring. And wood has to do with agression.

So 27 and galbladder can mean make use of courage in the way it can feed yourself, that you get feedback what your yang way of acting means for somebody else.

 

[getojack]

Hey Luis or someone,

Can you post the Chinese for 27.1? My computer died on me. Thx

 

[Sparhawk]

27.1

初九 舍爾靈龜。觀我朵頤。凶。

chu1 jiu3 she3 er3 ling2 gui1 guan1 wo3 duo3 yi2 xiong1​

L

 

[rosada]

Enjoyed your story, Frank. I hope you will continue to post what you know about acupuncture etc. and the hexagrams.

I have a sore throat this morning. Cancel that. My throat is rapidly healing this morning. Anyway, as I frantically accentuate the positive, a part of me is growling in disgust, "Isn't it a little late for affirmations? Why don't you take better care of yourself?" Learning the hard way "Magic Tortoise" maybe another word for "Health."

 

[rosada]

From the Illuminated I Ching:

27.1 If one looks with envy and resentment at the situation of others it will lead to loss of self reliance and freedom.
-Judy Fox

 

[dobro p]

From the Illuminated I Ching:

27.1 If one looks with envy and resentment at the situation of others it will lead to loss of self reliance and freedom.
-Judy Fox

Earlier, I talked about 27.1 being about faulty self-image. This fits with that, but emphasizes outcomes rather than perceptions.

 

[rosada]

27.2
Six in the second place means:
Turning to the summit for nourishment,
Deviating from the path
To seek nourishment from the hill,
Continuing to do this brings misfortune.

Normally a person either provides his own means of nourishment or is supported in a proper way by those whose duty and privilege it is to provide for him. If, owing to weakness of spirit, a man cannot support himself, a feeling of uneasiness comes over him; this is because in shirking the proper way of obtaining a living, he accepts support as a favor from those in higher place. This is unworthy, for he is deviating from his true nature. Kept up indefinitely, this course leads to misfortune.

If the six in the second place continues to do this, it brings misfortune, because it is going to lose its place among its kind.

The six in the second place could seek nourishment from its peer, the nine at the beginning. Instead it turns aside from this path and seeks nourishment at the summit, that is, from the upper ruler of the hexagram (the upper trigram is Ken, mountain.) This brings misfortune.
Another interpretation reads: "To seek to be provided with nourishment the other way around (by the nine at the beginning) or, leaving the path, to seek nourishment from the hill (the nine at the top) brings misfortune.
-Wilhelm

 

[Sparhawk]

27.2

六二 顛頤。拂經于丘。頤征凶。
liu4 er4 dian1 yi2 fu2 jing1 yu2 qiu1 yi2 zheng1 xiong1
​

L