27. Memorizing the I Ching I/ The Corners of the Mouth (Providing Nourishment)

[charly]

The character itself is very simple: chin and head.
The meaning is, apart from jaws, also what one does with one’s cheeks...
Same character but pronounced SHEN3: raise the eyes to look at someone...

Hi, LiSe:

I have read somewhere that for chinese a «wild arrow» or a «loosed arrow» is an arrow sent without the archer knows where it will fall.

This is my wild arrow:

Let us agree that the component of the right is head (could be a shaman or an ancestor, anyway, an extraordinary subject).

Go us to the left component: Jaw /cheeks and, by extension, meanings relative to the feeding and the speech. Stretching a little more, it could be to bite, to swallow...

In the oldest characters Harmen sees a bone, an oracular bone, matching with shaman. Wu Jing-Nuan, translates the H.27 «Jaws / Nourrisment», but speaks of muscular movements interpreted like omens and portents, as indicated by Waley for other hexagrams.

Most peculiar of Wu Jing-Nuan it is that he (1) draws this component not as "chin" but as "chen", minister/servant. A mistake?

I still don't know where the arrow is going to fall .

I think that Yi instead of being a subject could be an action. The action / the scene revealed by the structure of the character (I don't speak of etymology but of meaning relations, and the meaning is determined by the use, not entirely by the origin).

System cracks, I've loosed the arrow.

(to be continued)

Yours,


Charly

----------------------------------------------
(1) isn't he who draws but Xiaodong Cai

 

[bruce_g]

There seems quite a variety of takes on line 2. Brad paints an image of someone who (somewhat pathetically) runs high and low, begging. LiSe suggests not trying to set the Dao right according to our needs. Wilhelm lays his usual guilt trip, but says something similar to Brad's begging image.

I think these all apply, but I have another quirky picture. There was a saying, on the streets of NJ when I was still a kid: Don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash. The reason for this image is that, a summit or hill is a high place, and the individual goes boldly there with their jaws, or with words. While speaking from this high place, their own nourishment was left behind, down on the plain or in the valley. "Wholly intent jaws. Rejecting the regular path to the hill. For jaws to set things right: pitfall." Lise

 

[dobro p]

27.2 is a bit obscure, but there are two words that I translate as 'overturning' and 'rejecting'. I read the line this way: you're rejecting something - an idea or an input or a value of a fairly high order - and although this might not be a bad thing in itself, the time doesn't support your powerfully imposing order on the situation.

If everybody's supporting the war in the Middle East and you think it's a giant waste of time, don't go trying to convince the world of the truth of the way you see things. For instance.

Oh yeah... and I see the rejection of 27.2 as the sacrifice or offering imaged in Hex 41.

 

[Trojina]

27 always comes up for me regarding money issues - especially 27.2 so theres something I ain't doing right ! I think of 27 as very much about how you get what you need, really need to survive - food/money - I never much associated it with ideals - feels more to me like it deals with tangibles. I guess it must refer to all kinds of nourishment but I personally have trouble relating it to the less tangible - cos its about finding and getting what you actually need - can't relate it to opinions about the Middle East

 

[Sparhawk]

If everybody's supporting the war in the Middle East and you think it's a giant waste of time, don't go trying to convince the world of the truth of the way you see things. For instance.

Where is the tongue-in-cheek picture that goes with that statement??

L

 

[Sparhawk]

Alfred Huang's 27.2:

Turning upside down,
Seeking nourishment.
Contrary to normal.
From the hill, seeking nourishment.
Moving forward: misfortune.

Second six, moving forward: misfortune.
Moving forward without friends' support.​

L

 

[heylise]

Answer to Charly

About the left part: Wenlin (which has the deFrancis dictionary) says especially, that the left part is not chén, minister or vassal, but a side-ways picture of a chin.

About " Yi instead of being a subject could be an action": I couldn't agree more. But I have that idea not only about this hexagram name but about almost all names. And about a lot of Chinese characters. They are usually less defined than words in Western languages. We have different words for a subject, its positive meaning, negative meaning, its verb, its associations. Very often one Chinese character combines all these meanings. Especially including the opposites of a positive and negative meaning is for us hard to conceive.

A "chin-scapula", interesting. "Pointing with the chin-scapula " (arrogantly commanding by facial expressions) and "chin-scapula spirit" (rest one's mind) get a magic touch to them. Tools for Harry Potter.
And that magic tortoise of line 1... the magic creature of my chin...
Mm, in my notes I have a remark "The ritual of the jaw": not simply eating or talking, but doing so with due respect, for the food, for the words, for the other person, for one's body.

I am beginning to like your wild arrow.

Jie yi (release jaw) laugh, smile
In Lindqvist p.30 is the character for eyebrow, which looks very much like the right part. Could it be that the expression of the face was a very – maybe even the most - important feature of 27? Like in 'point with the chin' (or cheeks and eyebrows?). Or like we say about smiling 'from ear to ear'. The jaw is moved by a muscle which is attached to the top of the head. In 27.2 and 4 Wilhelm translates 顛頤 as 'Turning to the summit for nourishment', but the first character 顛 has as meanings 'top of the head, jolt; bump, fall; topple; upset, run/go away, summit' and it is also used for 'wholly intent on, concentrate upon'. I think the person of those lines is so intent, that his entire head expresses it, from chin to crown.

Brad takes the five characters as one sentence, and then 2 for the rest (Going into the hills hungering - Going boldly into failure). I divide it into 4 and 3 (Rejecting the regular path to the hill - For jaws to set things right: pitfall), but I am not at all sure if I am right. It might even be that hill-jaw is one word. Wu Jing-Nuan sees it that way: the mound of the jaws. "Mound in its anatomical sense is the masseter muscle, which forms a mound when the teeth are clenched". Makes a lot of sense as well. It is not good to try to make order with clenched jaws.

(maybe asking about money and getting line 2: "don't act fromout clenched jaws, relax.. and then think again")

LiSe

 

[dobro p]

In English there's an expression for Charly's arrow: a shot in the dark.

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 27.2

Line 2
"Rejecting the standards, one tries to go straight to the top for nourishment. One is punished. Unfortunate."

The line position is controlled by 07 and so covers uniforming, socialisation (as does its binary sequence pair partner 04) and so includes the 'army' focus.

Overall we have "with/from hungering (27) comes distillation (41)" - and with THAT comes the issues with the speed in which one tries to distill - dont get it right and all you have is rubbish - and so not sticking to the 'tried and true' methods (aka 'standing orders') of distillation gets one into strife!

Chris.

 

[heylise]

View attachment 314​

When I try to find the meaning of a line, I look often at the "square". It includes the fanyao, for 27.2 that is 42.2, and the qianyao, for 27.2 that is 27.5 (27 upside down is again 27) and its fanyao 41.5. Like in the image.

The four lines have a common theme:
27.2: Wholly intent jaws. Rejecting the regular path to the hill. For jaws to set things right: pitfall.
Don't let your mouth write checks your ass can't cash (thanks for that one Bruce!). When your own ideas are stronger than what is 'the common way', which proved itself through time or big numbers, then be careful. It means you are taking risks you cannot foresee.

41.2: Harvest: determination. To set things right: pitfall. Not diminishing or increasing it.
Listen to gods, not to your own personal beliefs or wishes. You may want to increase something, or decrease it, but it is better to let gods, fate or nature decide.

27.5: Rejecting the regular path. A settling determination is auspicious. It does not permit wading the great stream.
What is good for everyone might not be good for you. You need your own food, which agrees with your body and mind. Don't go to any excesses, take a middle road. Nothing has been proven beneficial yet, so find out carefully.

42.5: Being true, kind-hearted. No question: eminent auspiciousness. Being true and kind is your own virtue.
"Humanity" is not kind. Kindness is an individual virtue, a personal achievement. The one who possesses kindness will excel among his peers, and create happiness for himself and others.

Theme: Personal/individual versus the commonly proven ways.

The square of the opposite hexagrams (all yang lines yin and vv) have a similar but complementary theme: Personal/individual needs versus the commonly approved ways.

LiSe

 

[heylise]

Mm, happy that I can attach images, but why does it keep the one I threw out?

 

[rosada]

Seeing 27.2 as being about asking for money when you haven't gone through proper channels, and how this brings misfortune...
We live off the main highway along a shared dirt road. Last week we noticed trucks out smoothing the road and laying gravel. No one had asked our opinion and frankly we liked the dirt road. It made the cars slow down to 5 miles an hour. Well this morning bright and early this character shows up on our doorstep with a wide grin and the cheery news that our share of the road improvement comes to $218. Unfortunately I hadn't read these postings then or I might have had some backbone. Instead I just gave a brief speech about how it would have been more appropriate for him to have asked BEFORE doing the work. Then my husband agreed we would pay. So in didn't exactly turn out as 27.2 predicted, he'll get the money, but at least we didn't smile and say, "Oh lovely, do it again."

 

[charly]

... A "chin-scapula", interesting... Mm, in my notes I have a remark "The ritual of the jaw": not simply eating or talking... Jie yi (release jaw) laugh, smile... Could it be that the expression of the face was a very – maybe even the most - important feature of 27? ...
LiSe

Hi, LiSe:

Thanks for your answer.

You said it: «Chin-scapula». There are no need for choosing one or another meaning, take both at the same time. Good. ChiScapula is a bone that speaks. The Head could be a Shaman. I yet saw something like this.

Recently I have posted Bruce a strip from Hugo Pratt's «Corte sconta detta arcana», here there are a sketch with the bone at left, the shaman (a shamanka) at right. She is foretelling for Ungern Kahn, but she is speaking too much about what she must not speak of, too little about he wants to listen.

The oracle speaks by the mouth of the shaman. But if the shaman don't know what to say? Ifhe speaks too much or too litlle? Too excessive or to restrained?

Shaman asks, ChinScapula answers. May be the reason why the IChing here speaks in the firsth person? Two partners talking, the younger listen, the elder and wiser advices. Nice.

But horrible too. ChinScapula is death as TurtleCarapace, and Shaman knows what sort of experience is having been bound to a death. Here cames Wu Jing-Nuan: with no words, the bone becomes a Royal Fortune-Teller, a Minister, the shaman becomes a Royal Ancestor. King waits off scene.

Great Persons, great challenges, great risks. Kings have the tendency of chopping off heads. Minister mediates betwen King and his Ancestor, suddenly he becomes frozen. Up to his bones. Panic!. He looses his Turtle, he don't yet understands his Books, his mouth open, looks desperately to the Ancestor ...

Gradually he turns to listen. A voice is warning him, there are some risks... The voice advices him: don't put this face, look at your neighbors, make visual contact, observe little secret signs, don't discard old classics. Also says him: look fiercely, speak loud, move bizarre, but be prudent, be gentle, take your time, do't risk you whe you cann't take risks. But at your time, take it, cross your river.

Six times the voice spokes, the last finish «good luck».

The arrow still flies.

Yours,


Charly

 

[rosada]

Okay, I've completed posting Wilhelm's comments back on #89, should anyone care to read them.

 

[rosada]

Six in the third place means:
Turning away from nourishment.
Perseverance brings misfortune.
Do not act thus for ten years.
Nothing serves to further.

He who seeks nourishment that does not nourish reels from desire to gratification and in gratification craves desire. Mad pursuit of pleasure for the satisfaction of the senses never brings one to the goal. One should never (ten years is a complete cycle of time) follow this path, for nothing good can come of it.

"Do not act this way for ten years," because it is all too contrary to the right way.

This line also, standing at the top of the trigram Chen, movement, seeks nourishment from the nine at the top instead of from the nine at the bottom. "Ten years" is implied by the nuclear trigram K'un, whose number is ten. The reason why this behavior is so severely critisized is that the line seeks personal advantages on the basis of its relationship of correspondence, which is not valid in this hexagram.

 

[lightofreason]

27.3

Line 3
"Rejecting nourishment leads to testing times and danger. Stay off this path for it is directionless."

Line position 3 is controlled by hex 15 and so covers issues of modesty, reducing extremes. Rejection of nourishment is like excess of nourishment - an extreme

With/from hungering (27) comes facading (22) (cover up inside by exaggerating outside, put up a 'front' - this goes nowhere) The quality control focus on filling an infrastructure includes a minimalist focus where such is an ideal and so is considered to lead nowhere.

The XOR perspective covers how does 27 express 15-ness and that is done through behaviours described by analogy to 22 - we cover things up, gloss over, but cannot escape the facade we use to do so being 'jazzed up' a little. As such, 15 as 15 covers the focus on keeping words close to facts, fill in lows, bring down highs - but 15 through 27 comes with a touch of gloss, thus a covering that is modest but draws attention.

Chris.

 

[Sparhawk]

27.3

六三 拂頤。貞凶。十年勿用。旡攸利。
liu4 san1 fu2 yi2 zhen1 xiong1 shi2 nian2 wu4 yong4 wu2 you1 li4
​

 

[Sparhawk]

He looses his Turtle, he don't yet understands his Books, his mouth open, looks desperately to the Ancestor ...

At last, somebody that gets my cartoon...

I wouldn't want to be in this guys' shoes at that precise moment...


L

 

[rosada]

27. Investing
What we sow, we also reap. The quality of our motives and attitudes are potent forces that we all invest in our daily activities. If we nurse grudges, we feed our resentments and build hostility. If we give praise and feed gratitude for worthwhile events, we build goodwill and joy. It is important to view current events with this principle in mind. In fact, we can measure the quality of our beliefs and expectations by the results we are getting, for there is now a very strong connection between the two. If our situation is disappointing, we should look at what we are investing in it. Take heed and act appropriately.

Your Resistance: Avoid the temptation to explain stalemates, failures, or other problems by rounding up the usual suspects of helplessness or blaming others. Don't just analyze what is wrong or how others have failed you. Seek to discover what you can do to help yourself.

Your Next Step: It is time to consider how this situation mirrors what you have done or left undone. Accept full responcibility for improving matters. Aim high so as to reconnect with issues and people on a more constructive wavelength.

1. Your idealism, jealousy, or tendancy to imitate others is distorting what is appropriate for you. Work to discover and pursue your own needs.

2.You can increase your power and opportunities by doing more to take care of your own needs. At present you risk becoming too dependent.

3. Stop looking for sympathy or someone to blame. You really need to face the truth about the constructive things you can do.
--Leichtman.

 

[rosada]

27.4
Six in the fourth place means:
Turning to the summit
For provision of nourishment
Brings good fortune. Spying about with sharp eyes
Like a tiger with insatiable craving.
No blame.

--Wilhelm

 

[lightofreason]

27

Line 4
"One is filled with a craving for nourishment. It is advantageous for one to intensely and carefully inspects all that there is for the best pieces. No harm in this."

Line position 4 is controlled by hex 16 with its focus on enthusism and use of foresight, planning, expectations etc.

Here we have "with/from hungering (27) comes problem solving (issues of deviations etc) (21)" where the focus on careful inspection brings out the traits of 21.

The XOR focus covers how does 27 express the traits of 16 and so the 16-ness of 27 is described by analogy to characteristics of 21.

 

[Sparhawk]

27.4

六四 顛頤。吉。虎視眈眈。其欲逐逐。旡咎。
liu4 si4 dian1 yi2 ji2 hu3 shi4 dan1 dan1 qi2 yu4 zhu2 zhu2 wu2 jiu4​

L

 

[Sparhawk]

Notice the two sets of repeating characters above. Again, I think that Brad's choice of words for the translation are closer to the mark: "staring and glaring" for the first and "hunt and give chase" for the second.

I'd like to know LiSe's opinion for the translation of 虎視眈眈 as "A tiger's view is greedy, greedy" in hers.

L

PS: I mean, "closer to the mark" is a very subjective thing, of course. It means my neurons resonate better with it. Someone else's neurons may digress, which is fine, or may not function at all, which is usually my own case...

 

[rosada]

I wonder if it is significant in this hexagram about the mouth, that here is a line about the eyes? I'm thinking the first three lines could be said to refer to a whinning attitude that needs to shut up and start figuring things out for themselves, like a tiger and watching with the eyes. Interesting the two sets of repeating characters sparhawk mentions, like the lower and the higher conciousnesses both seeking each other, starting to mirror each other and connecting.

27.1

I don't know what to doooo, sob, sob, sob.
Okay, so what do you want from Me?
27.2
Oh, you are so much more wise and so much more powerful! Tell me what to doooo, sob, sob, sob.
If I tell you, you'll just keep asking.

 

[rosada]

27.3
:What? You say I should just keep asking? Okay, What do I do now? Hunh, hunh?
: (Silence)
27.4
:Hmmm, maybe if I try to figure it out for myself...
: (Silence)

 

[rosada]

27.5
Hmm, in this silence I just noticed there is Someone right here with me, just about on my same level only maybe a little more experienced. So, have you been on this path for long?
Oh, for about as long as you have I guess.
27.6
:bows:Well it's great to have a friend.
:bows: Yeah, two heads are better than one.

 

[charly]

At last, somebody that gets my cartoon...
I wouldn't want to be in this guys' shoes at that precise moment...
L

Luis:

I must recognize it. I owe you. You might promote your site throgh some quotes or some hiperlinks.

Interval for «figuritas»(1) exchange: modest, like a mouse (2), I send you one of mine for 27.1

yours,

Charly


------------------------
(1) stickers ?
(2) Modest Mouse, my tentative translation for H.15

 

[dobro p]

Line position 4 is controlled by hex 16 with its focus on enthusism and use of foresight, planning, expectations etc.

Here we have "with/from hungering (27) comes problem solving (issues of deviations etc) (21)" where the focus on careful inspection brings out the traits of 21.

The XOR focus covers how does 27 express the traits of 16 and so the 16-ness of 27 is described by analogy to characteristics of 21.

I see the enthusiasm you describe in the hunger and focus of the tiger. I see the biting through of 21 in that same tiger.

 

[charly]

27.4 ...
顛 頤 吉 虎 視 眈 眈 其 欲 逐 逐 旡 咎 ...
dian1 yi2 ji2 hu3 shi4 dan1 dan1 qi2 yu4 zhu2 zhu2 wu2 jiu4

I take the license of to remove the parsing, not existing in old chinese texts.
I have some notes from Shaughnessy giving:

a) 眈(dan) = to look with eyes downcast (I deduce: tiger is shy)
b) 逐(zhu) = sad / long (being currently to hunt, to chase)

Remaining 頤(Yi) as incognita, two almost literal translations may be:

1) Reversed 頤(Yi), lucky. Tiger shy, shy. His desire: 'hunt, hunt'. No bad.
[After three bad lines dice reverse, luck returns. Tiger isn't the Big Boss,
but his desire is fierce, his goal fixed in his mind]

2) Reversed 頤(Yi), lucky. Tiger shy, shy. His desire long, long. No bad.
[Very close to the previous: Outer tiger being short, inner tiger is long]

Notes:
-------
His desire: 'hunt, hunt' must be understood like tiger's desire is
commanding him 'hunt, hunt!'.

Shaughnessy preffers «sad», but if it were so, which could be the reason
for being the line lucky? Poor, so sad tiger!
(Maybe I'm wrong about Shaughnessy, I haven't the original for verifying).

I like 頤(Yi) as «consulting a jaw-bone oracle», as I red in Harmen's page,
by extension all sort of oracles, ZhouYi (The Yi!) included.

And oracle is a mouth that doesn't speak, must be observed with much
attention for getting his message. A gesticulating mouth, not a speaking one.
Communication by gesture.

White tiger is female for chinese, gentle but powerful like the girl of Gou (H.44),
not to be taken by force (more from Harmen).

Yours,

Charly

 

[getojack]

Poor, so sad tiger,
Hunt! Hunt!
No bad.
Good, so nice tiger,
shy, shy
Hunt! Hunt!

Good, no bad.
Happy, no sad.