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28 (great excess) multiple times

steveday

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Hello!

I fell deeply in love this winter, a very 55/plentiful love, quick, fast burning, let's have babies, etc, and then... poof, it exploded.
Both of us were quite heartbroken. I left to work away from home for a couple of months, and processed a lot, alone, working on a ship.

I did a handful of readings around the relationship and then around the breakup (which came from her and which I did experience as a rejection).

28 came up three times in the last 5 readings I've thrown about this breakup.
Mid-june in full flush of heartbreak pain, sad texts, emotional messages (from my end more), I asked Yi:
1. "what is the lay of the land with the breakup and jenn" and got 28 unchanging
2. "Breakup. I am distraught, away from home on the ship. How do I make the crossing?", 28.5 to 32.

Back then, I took 28 to mean: you've been hashing out this breakup for a painful month, every day. Time to take things off the roof. Stop piling things on the roof. Stop contacting her. Stop trying to turn back. Go, cross the river, make the crossing. Most clearly: stop reaching out to her, make your own crossing.

I've mostly been doing that since, not contacting her, understanding that the processing is mine to make alone (though i think very frequently of writing her) and slowly healing. It has been two months since we spoke at all.

But then, last week, I bumped into a friend of hers, which prompted her to write, to see "if I wanted to be in contact or not yet".
I have no idea. I feel angry, tender, in love, curious... i also know that the one thing that seems to help is the distance.

The other night I asked: "Yi, Jenn wrote to see if i want to be in contact. What to do/how to best be?"

Again, 28 unchanging.

I am a little paralyzed, here, and don't know how to write back. Certainly, if we re-enter into contact, a lot of emotions will flood out-- the very ones which previously overwhelmed the roofbeam, but perhaps now in isolation I have my own roofbeam sagging, Perhaps "taking things off the roof" means relieving dialogue with her.

My two lines of thought are:
1. Yi is reinforcing what I was directed to do before. You are still in the same situation as before. I'll tell you again: 28. You know well that the roof is still sagging. You know well that contacting her would mean putting more things on the roof. Don't do that. Don't be in contact with her. Continue fording the river.
But it could also mean:
2. Since the situation is now different, 28 does not mean "cut contact" like it did before. The roof is your own. It's only you in the house now, and again, things are piling on the roof, which is sagging. You have been apart 2 months, and now, to relieve the sagging roof, taking them off means doing the other thing: restarting contact, taking some of that pressure off the roof.

Will be happy to hear others' thoughts :)
 
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D

diamant

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1. Yi is reinforcing what I was directed to do before. You are still in the same situation as before. I'll tell you again: 28. You know well that the roof is still sagging. You know well that contacting her would mean putting more things on the roof. Don't do that. Don't be in contact with her. Continue fording the river.

I'm with version 1.
The situation is unbearable, too much to bear.

When a person leaves another, that means the one leaving is not in love anymore (no matter what she told you or how she sold it to you). So facts show that she's not in love with you.

Since you are still in love with her, it will be too cruel to you to keep contact and pretend you're just friends. It will give you false hope, it will crush your heart under a heavy weight even further.
 

angelatlantis14

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Hi Steve,

I am all with Diamant's interpretation.
Hex 28 unchanging can in my mind not be constructed as an encouraging go-ahead sign.
It says exactly that this situation is too much. The fact that you have received no changing lines, shows that this is the current situation, and needs to be focussed on. Take care to not overload, and resumed contact after this short a breakup time would be an overload.
Breakup pain cannot be shortened, but it sure can be prolonged by these doomed attempts at "being friends" (mostly just a way for the person who initiated the breakup to feel guilt-free), they rarely work and serve no purpose for you.

Take care

angelatlantis14
 

dfreed

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2. "I am distraught, away from home on the ship. How do I make the crossing?", 28.5 to 32.
I don't understand the nature of your question. Are you on an actual ship? Or is this a metaphor? And what's the crossing you're wanting to make? A crossing to ...?

Thanks.
 

steveday

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Yes, I suppose that's unclear. I was on an actual ship, away from home, a little isolated, working as a deckhand.
 

marybluesky

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Hello Steve,

as you've got many 28s, I focus on the hexagram's idea: something is too much for the situation, too messy, too stressful.
 

Trojina

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The other night I asked: "Yi, Jenn wrote to see if i want to be in contact. What to do/how to best be?"

Again, 28 unchanging.

I am a little paralyzed, here, and don't know how to write back. Certainly, if we re-enter into contact, a lot of emotions will flood out-- the very ones which previously overwhelmed the roofbeam, but perhaps now in isolation I have my own roofbeam sagging, Perhaps "taking things off the roof" means relieving dialogue with her.

My two lines of thought are:
1. Yi is reinforcing what I was directed to do before. You are still in the same situation as before. I'll tell you again: 28. You know well that the roof is still sagging. You know well that contacting her would mean putting more things on the roof. Don't do that. Don't be in contact with her. Continue fording the river.
But it could also mean:
2. Since the situation is now different, 28 does not mean "cut contact" like it did before. The roof is your own. It's only you in the house now, and again, things are piling on the roof, which is sagging. You have been apart 2 months, and now, to relieve the sagging roof, taking them off means doing the other thing: restarting contact, taking some of that pressure off the roof.

Will be happy to hear others' thoughts

I think 28uc is a clear warning you will take too much on yourself emotionally and physically if you go back into contact.

You said you've been distraught. That's clearly bad for you in all ways.

1. "what is the lay of the land with the breakup and jenn" and got 28 unchanging
2. "I am distraught, away from home on the ship. How do I make the crossing?", 28.5 to 32.

Back then, I took 28 to mean: you've been hashing out this breakup for a painful month, every day. Time to take things off the roof. Stop piling things on the roof. Stop contacting her. Stop trying to turn back. Go, cross the river, make the crossing. Most clearly: stop reaching out to her, make your own crossing.

I agree with your interpretation except I'd add there's some urgency to prioritise your self care here. Things like this can make you ill, so emotionally distraught you feel ill and cannot cope. Don't go there, focus on going your way. The Image says from Wilhelm

'Thus steveday, when he stands alone,
Is unconcerned,
And if he has to renounce the world,
He is undaunted.'


In extreme times like this there's nobility in renouncing all for your survival.

I did a handful of readings around the relationship and then around the breakup (which came from her and which I did experience as a rejection).

If she rejected you then you are the one left holding all the feelings and the questions and it makes you somewhat powerless. If you have regained some composure by no contact do not give your power away again lightly as it will cost you dearly. If you find you can get on with your life better through no contact keep no contact.

At this point if she wants contact she needs to decide if she wants you back properly or not. You can't afford the 'friend' stuff right now.



Also take some time to reconsider the narrative, another useful function of being alone

I fell deeply in love this winter, a very 55/plentiful love, quick, fast burning, let's have babies, etc, and then... poof, it exploded.
Both of us were quite heartbroken. I left to work away from home for a couple of months, and processed a lot, alone, working on a ship.

I did a handful of readings around the relationship and then around the breakup (which came from her and which I did experience as a rejection).

I'd ask if this was love because love doesn't suddenly go 'poof' and not exist. It also does not reject that quickly. The bottom line is if she was heartbroken by the breakup why did she choose to breakup then ?

You experienced it as rejection because it was rejection. I don't know enough about it to make any firm statements about what she was doing of course but it's possible there's a lot of fudging/lack of clarity all covered over by the words 'in love'. What I mean is when deeply involved and having used the words 'in love' to one another a lot of other stuff it allowed to flow under the bridge unnoticed, not seen as mattering. 'We are in love that's all that matters' isn't true if a lot of behaviour that doesn't work for us is just passed over. I wonder why she made it go 'poof' all of a sudden and what the lifespan of the relationship was ? They say 3 months is the limit of the highly romantic idealised period, maybe she can't get past that initial ecstasy phase. I don't know, maybe 28 isn't the best time to get a clear view objectively but the emotional space you gain can help you reappraise this.
 
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dfreed

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I was on an actual ship, away from home, a little isolated, working as a deckhand.
Thanks. That makes the whole thing much clearer, especially since 'crossing great waters' (in or without boats) is a repeated theme in the I Ching.

I will try to take a closer look soon.

d.
 

dfreed

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Yes, I suppose that's unclear. I was on an actual ship, away from home, a little isolated, working as a deckhand.
Oh hey again Steveday! I get now that you are on a ship, away from home .... but it occurred to me, I still don't know what you mean when you say:

How do I make the crossing?

I wonder if this 'journey' is still metaphorical? Are you perhaps asking:

How can I make the crossing from having broken heart (feeling broken) to feeling whole again?

Or is it something else? Kindly, D.
 

redoleander

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I received 28 unchanging at a moment of choosing a trial separation from my partner. I, like you, received it a few times. It's not so much that I think things can't ever be different; I think it just means they definitely aren't different right now. I think it's telling you that her feeling/decision is pretty final and that it will be too much for you to be in contact. The situation simply stretched as far as it could go. I worry a little that it could be harmful (I think of 28 UC as "the straw that breaks the camel's back", it's just shown up that way for me a few times, in totally different ways) and push you back into that stretched place.
 

steveday

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Oh hey again Steveday! I get now that you are on a ship, away from home .... but it occurred to me, I still don't know what you mean when you say:

How do I make the crossing?


I wonder if this 'journey' is still metaphorical? Are you perhaps asking:

How can I make the crossing from having broken heart (feeling broken) to feeling whole again?


Or is it something else? Kindly, D.
Indeed it was the second one. Part of the hexagram text talks about making a crossing-- in one version I like to read, it's all about crossing/fording a river, and that's a metaphor which stuck in my mind.
 

dfreed

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Indeed it was the second one.

As in "How can I make the crossing from having broken heart (feeling broken) to feeling whole again?"

I'll try and take a closer look soon.

In terms of jenn wanting to communicate, 28, if it were me I might start by emailing / texting back, and asking what she wants? To be friends, or to entertain the idea of being lovers again? Or something else? (It's sort of a pre-communication - laying the groundwork - to you actually communication with her or not.)

And hopefully how she responds will give you some sense of the 'path' you want to take in response - which is represented by 28's lower trigram (three line figure) Wind. And this will also help you determine if this is joyful communication (upper trigram Lake) or is more of an addiction (unbalanced trigram Lake) or will this just leave you feeling exposed and more sad?

Best, D.
 
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steveday

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I think 28uc is a clear warning you will take too much on yourself emotionally and physically if you go back into contact.

You said you've been distraught. That's clearly bad for you in all ways.



I agree with your interpretation except I'd add there's some urgency to prioritise your self care here. Things like this can make you ill, so emotionally distraught you feel ill and cannot cope. Don't go there, focus on going your way. The Image says from Wilhelm

'Thus steveday, when he stands alone,
Is unconcerned,
And if he has to renounce the world,
He is undaunted.'


In extreme times like this there's nobility in renouncing all for your survival.



If she rejected you then you are the one left holding all the feelings and the questions and it makes you somewhat powerless. If you have regained some composure by no contact do not give your power away again lightly as it will cost you dearly. If you find you can get on with your life better through no contact keep no contact.

At this point if she wants contact she needs to decide if she wants you back properly or not. You can't afford the 'friend' stuff right now.



Also take some time to reconsider the narrative, another useful function of being alone



I'd ask if this was love because love doesn't suddenly go 'poof' and not exist. It also does not reject that quickly. The bottom line is if she was heartbroken by the breakup why did she choose to breakup then ?

You experienced it as rejection because it was rejection. I don't know enough about it to make any firm statements about what she was doing of course but it's possible there's a lot of fudging/lack of clarity all covered over by the words 'in love'. What I mean is when deeply involved and having used the words 'in love' to one another a lot of other stuff it allowed to flow under the bridge unnoticed, not seen as mattering. 'We are in love that's all that matters' isn't true if a lot of behaviour that doesn't work for us is just passed over. I wonder why she made it go 'poof' all of a sudden and what the lifespan of the relationship was ? They say 3 months is the limit of the highly romantic idealised period, maybe she can't get past that initial ecstasy phase. I don't know, maybe 28 isn't the best time to get a clear view objectively but the emotional space you gain can help you reappraise this.
This is a very thoughtful and thorough response, thank you. I had a little chat this morning with Hilary and was thinking of some of the ideas here-- the "we are in love and that's all that matters" is certainly an attitude that's woven through.
I think that we together and individually framed the narrative that this was The One. Plentiful (55 unchanging was actually the first reading I got about the relationship). Now, in the moments where I am NOT getting on with my life (such as this past week, after she reached out), I cling to the "this was love" line myopically.

I think I've clung to the "highly romantic idealized period". Because it's me that's been rejected (indeed, it was around the 3.5 month mark), it's been harder to grapple with the reality of how I felt about her from my side of things. I cover up the things I didn't feel quite right about with "this was love, this was love", such that I almost can't discern them.

I like also that you touch on the idea of "giving away your power". Indeed I have a lot of questions, confusions swirling, which I am powerless to answer on my own.
A part of me thinks that, because she didn't really express (or, I didn't properly hear when she did) the reasons for the 'poof', it's not wrong to ask if she's had any more reflections.
Since June, I've scratched at the walls for answers, things I could correct, and did so-- quit smoking/drinking, lost weight, reinforced friendships, learned about attachment theory, conversed with Yi, etc...
I wish she would tell me what it actually was, so I can stop criticizing myself, but I guess it's not as simple as that. I've just got to do all the self-improvement/growth that occurs to me.

Which, of course, makes me feel better in many ways, even if I feel resentful, as if i am being forced to read between the lines. If, as I suspect, it just wasn't love for her, and if she knows that, dammit, she needs to bravely say it. It's condensing and becoming toxic for me.

This is what makes me think that the ridgepole sag is actually caused by the isolation/lack of communication. So yes, while I don't think I could handle friendship, I do wonder if there is more clarity to seek, if we get back in contact. I'm pretty sure that's not the correct interpretation though.

Ultimately, I agree with you that I can't really afford the friend stuff now. Indeed, she needs to decide if she wants me back properly or not, and the best thing for me to do is what the image says, to renounce, and stand alone.
 
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steveday

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As in "How can I make the crossing from having broken heart (feeling broken) to feeling whole again?"

I'll try and take a closer look soon.

In terms of jenn wanting to communicate, 28, if it were me I might start by emailing / texting back, and asking what she wants? To be friends, or to entertain the idea of being lovers again? Or something else? (It's sort of a pre-communication - laying the groundwork - to you actually communication with her or not.)

And hopefully how she responds will give you some sense of the 'path' you want to take in response - which is represented by 28's lower trigram (three line figure) Wind. And this will also help you determine if this is joyful communication (upper trigram Lake) or is more of an addiction (unbalanced trigram Lake) or will this just leave you feeling exposed and more sad?

Best, D.
I do like this idea of asking what she wants.
@Trojina's response above says "she needs to decide if she wants me back properly or not" and I'm tempted just to state (restate actually) something to that effect.
But, I worry that that, too, is some form of piling something on the already sagging roof?
Unless I say it clearly, simply, without expectation.
 

steveday

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I received 28 unchanging at a moment of choosing a trial separation from my partner. I, like you, received it a few times. It's not so much that I think things can't ever be different; I think it just means they definitely aren't different right now. I think it's telling you that her feeling/decision is pretty final and that it will be too much for you to be in contact. The situation simply stretched as far as it could go. I worry a little that it could be harmful (I think of 28 UC as "the straw that breaks the camel's back", it's just shown up that way for me a few times, in totally different ways) and push you back into that stretched place.
This is my feeling too. They definitely aren't different right now and there's no use pretending that they are.
Things, of course, do change. New feelings can come, but they haven't yet, and when they do come, they won't be the same as the old.
Actually we spoke about exactly this, at length, in a couple of our prolonged breakup conversations.
I thought of this in relation to my initial throw of 28 unchanging.

I suppose I briefly left the hut with the sagging roof but for some reason have come back inside again, haha!
 

my_key

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28 image
This is a time when the Noble One establishes himself in solitude without fear
And retires from the age without melancholy

Good Luck
 

dfreed

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"she needs to decide if she wants me back properly or not" and I'm tempted just to state (restate actually) something to that effect.
But, I worry that that, too, is some form of piling something on the already sagging roof?
Unless I say it clearly, simply, without expectation.
Whatever words you use, or however you decide to do this I can't say too much about. I'd only think, if I am asking someone else for clarity or I want them to answer me clearly about 'do you want me or not?' that I should be able to ask and clearly answer those questions of myself as well.

Best, D
 

steveday

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Whatever words you use, or however you decide to do this I can't say too much about. I'd only think, if I am asking someone else for clarity or I want them to answer me clearly about 'do you want me or not?' that I should be able to ask and clearly answer those questions of myself as well.

Best, D
You mean to say, I should know if I want her back or not?
I do not have them certainty I used to have about this being The One, but I do want her back, to follow the threads a bit more soberly. That, I feel sure about.
 

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