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35.2 - positive or negative?

moonrise

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I hope you will be willing to help me a bit more with explanation...
I have this issue with my friend that we don't communicate.

Today I talked about this with another person and I see the situation more clearly and now I feel i would write to this friend of mine just to express it and say goodbye in a loving way.

I asked Yi Jing: what to expect it I send this email?
I got 62.2.3->40
I am not sure what number 2 means, that I am not totally fit for the situation? or that should not expect too much (which is also the idea of 62 as a whole)?
line 3 is warning me that I could get hurt? he could have some harsh reaction?

but 40 is saying that I would have my resolution I need...things have been so blocked.

I was not sure, so i asked again: should I send this email to him?
I got 35.2->64

I am not sure about line 2. It says that you cannot make a contact with the important person (this makes sense:)), but you should persevere even though you are hurt and then this person will give you much happiness with grace. There is mutual attraction.

I am really not sure...should I write or not? This line seems very positive, describing the meeting. But 62.3 is quite negative.

Can you help, please? Thank you.
 

willowfox

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"I asked Yi Jing: what to expect it I send this email?
I got 62.2.3->40"

hex 62.2 the email will most likely never reach him.

hex 62.3 all kinds of dangers are involved in pursuing this email idea, so stop.

hex 40 deliever youself from any potential problems by not sending the email. Think very carefully about this because it is a mistake.
 

ewald

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I and others have a different interpretation of 35.2 as Wilhelm has.

In my view 35.2 is about a situation where there is a kind of barrier that you have to go through in order to progress. That situation is making you worried, but you have to persevere. By enduring going through that barrier, you'll learn something of importance to you.
So yes, you can send that e-mail.

62.2 is about not solving a problem in a radical way, but in a more direct and simple way. This is about you having decided, after talking with this other person, to simply end the relationship, instead of trying again after a couple of months.
40 is about Release, so by doing this you are letting go of a situation.
There however is a risk involved, as according to 62.3. Perhaps you'll have to deal with your former friend's anger.
 

willowfox

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This was her first question;

"I asked Yi Jing: what to expect it I send this email?
I got 62.2.3->40"

This was her second question about exactly the same thing, so it is not valid.

"I was not sure, so i asked again: should I send this email to him?
I got 35.2->64"
 

ewald

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willowfox said:
This was her second question about exactly the same thing, so it is not valid.
It's not true that these questions were exactly the same.

The first: "what to expect i[f] I send this email?"
The second: " I was not sure, [...] should I send this email to him?"

The first is about what to expect, the second (taking the not being sure into account) is more about why to send the email.
 

willowfox

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Okay,

"I was not sure, so i asked again: should I send this email to him?
I got 35.2->64'

Hex 35.2 progress is halted, cannot connect with this man, so forget about the email and just carry on with life.

Hex 64 getting herself into problems in trying to cross the river that divides them, in this case by email.

So both answers are no, do not send and expect headaches if you continue.
 

martin

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Remarkable that there is a 'grandmother' in 62.2 as well as in 35.2. (in the Legge translation, WB has 'ancestress' in both cases)

I wonder if the Yi is trying to tell you something with this 'coincidence'. Perhaps that it is better to try to approach him through a third person, symbolised by the 'grandmother'?

It could also have another, deeper meaning. Maybe you can find it if you look at it as if you were interpreting a dream. If you dream about a (or your) grandmother, what does it mean to you, what does she symbolize?
I understood from earlier posts that your friend is older, is he kind of grandfatherish for you?
 

ewald

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martin said:
Remarkable that there is a 'grandmother' in 62.2 as well as in 35.2. (in the Legge translation, WB has 'ancestress' in both cases)
The original Chinese for these two instances is quite different, however.

The grandmother in 62.2 is actually not a grandmother, but a "deceased mother" (this Chinese character is in particular used in formal references to a deceased mother, as on tombstones). She is a particular ancestress, who is not particularly high in the hierarchy of ancestors (and not an ancestress in general, as WB suggests).

The grandmother in 35.2 is actually also not a grandmother. It is a combination of the Chinese characters for king, prince, ruler, royal, and the one for "mother." A more appropriate translation than "grandmother" is in my view therefore "Royal Mother." I think of this "Royal Mother" as some kind of goddess, who is offering a task to complete, in order to have you learn something of great value for your happiness.
 

martin

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Grmp! Well, the lines still have a mother theme in common. :)

This raises the question, btw, if the Yi somehow takes the translations that we probably use into account, even if these translations are inaccurate.
I mean, in this case, is it part of the intended message of what speaks through the Yi that the same word appears twice in often used translations (grandmother in Legge, ancestress in WB), although the words are not the same in the original?
Then what if a translation is not just inaccurate, but wrong?

Hmm, I think this opens a big can of off topic worms. :D
 

autumn

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Perhaps if you had not had the exact same question several months before about "saying goodbye in a nice way" and had not found-in reality-that there was no basis to pursue anything from this man.

Should I send the email?
62: An absence of inner signicance. Bureacracy. Refers in a descriptive way to processes- which leads to the question, will the email even reach its destination? The lines suggest it probably will not.

Should I send the email? 35.2
Why is there even a question of this being a "good" or "bad" reading? It's a statement to you. Turn around and walk away, and find blessings in a new place. Why is it impossible for you to hear that message?
 

moonrise

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Hi, thank you for your inputs!

Well, to inform you, I didn't send the email:)

Ewald, i feel you really understood how I felt and what the issue is.

Autumn, I must admit, I am really getting more and more dissapointed with some people here. You don't know me, you know NOTHING about me, about this man, how I truly feel or why this is important to me. It is completely and exclusively MY BUSINESS what questions I ask, how many times, when and how. It doesn't concern you or nobody else.
I find it extremely arrogant from anyone to judge why someone asks a question and how. I come here to get interpretations of Yi Jing. I am not asking for advice of how to lead my personal life. I will make my own choices and I turn to Yi Jing to help me with it, but in the end it is my call! I am very sorry you cannot understand this. What, are you a private investigator, tracking my posts, counting how many times I ask something? It is my PERSONAL CHOICE to ask, and it is your personal decision not to bother with the post if you feel it is meaningless.
I repeat, you know nothing about me, my feelings and what was happening between me and this person and why I have the need to write or do whatever I feel to do. It is my personal life and I kindly ask you to not interfere.

As much as I appreciate the help and wisdom from some people here, i must admit, I am getting more and more dissapointed with the attitude of some others. You are really crossing boundaries and being disrespectful. I feel like I am being watched here, under surveillance! I cannot even believe that you remember that I asked questions about this, that you even bother to remember it! What concern is it to you?

So, unless you contribute the interpretation in a respectful way, i ask you not to even bother with reading my posts, thank you.

moonrise
 

luz

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Moonrise,

You wrote:
What, are you a private investigator, tracking my posts, counting how many times I ask something?
I can't really say for sure that Autumn is not a private investigator:rolleyes: but I can tell you that you don't need to be one to remember you and your questions very clearly.

And, while it's true that we all can choose to simply stop replying to your repetitive questions, have you thought that maybe those that do reply are trying to help you and they do it in their own personal style, in the same way they would talk to a friend and that maybe, just maybe, you should be a little grateful to them? You are dealing with human beings here, not machines. And humans will notice if you are not getting the message :brickwall:and will try to make you see it, only because they want to help you. Nobody has anything to gain here by replying to your posts, think about it.
 

ewald

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lightangel said:
Nobody has anything to gain here by replying to your posts, think about it.
I don't think it's that simple. Everyone has ego-issues, at least I haven't got the impression that anyone here is enlightened. There are issues of needing to feel competent and valuable, being heard, and lots of other things, for the ones trying to help. Most certainly people do have things to gain by responding to questions, and being listened to. They do gain a feeling of worth from it, for instance.

Those asking questions here are in a vulnerable position, exposing their troubles and feelings. They deserve and need to be treated with respect. While being irritated with questions being asked here is human, as no one is perfect and everyone has an ego, actually expressing such irritation is not respectful.

Most of us go through the same frustrating situations again and again. In order to leave that repetition behind, it is necessary to gain insight into it. Everyone has their own process of gaining that insight into their lives' situations. It's best to support people asking questions about their situations and inner workings, whether to themselves, others or the Yi. Trying to force it is usually not going to work.
 
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bruce_g

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I agree that force feeding an interpretation or arguing with a sitter is counter productive, and also pretty rude. But I personally don’t see what Autumn did wrong in referring to a prior reading. The problem is that old “Coke machine” mentality: put your money in and an instant answer pops out. In this case there’s no recompense for a reader except the satisfaction of knowing they’ve helped. Call it ego gratification if you’d like, but there’s nothing wrong with a reader receiving a little gratitude for their effort.

Moonrise seems to prefer a clinical approach to her readings: no personal involvement or counseling desired. I could understand that too. If that’s the case, then it’s a good idea to state that up front, with each question presented. Then there’s no confusion, and readers can choose to participate in interpreting on those terms or not.
 

Trojina

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Moonrise you ask those who respond to you to be less than human. We must have no memory of the many previous posts on saying 'goodbye' to this man, no thoughts about how this is looking pretty much like a rather painful obsession than anything at all to do with him or his responses.

Whether you want to hear it or not Moonrise the question I might suggest you start to ask from now on is 'how do I deal with my obsession, how do I heal from this obsession'.

I think someone or other has probably advised you something similar in greater depth before. It might be time to hear it

Just remembered the 35,2 etc I can't recall what others have written....maybe you need to talk alot about this to someone in a maternal role to you.... I don't think its about sending or not sending emails anymore, its about your needs....but I think this has all been said before..........
 
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luz

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There are issues of needing to feel competent and valuable, being heard, and lots of other things, for the ones trying to help.
Sure, but I don't see that happening here. I think very often people just want to help. Besides, there are so many opportunities to be heard, I think we can all pick and choose. There are many other more interesting threads where they could be showing off if they wanted to.

I also don't see anybody trying to force feed an interpretation here. I see somebody who takes the trouble to try to help Moonrise. And who is taking the context of the question in consideration. You replied to this question in a more neutral way, so to speak. Perhaps you don't know the background or perhaps you feel you are supposed to forget about the background. Which is fine.

But to some people the background is important, and some people genuinely try to make her see things for what they are. And it's perhaps not what Moonrise wants to hear and they know it but they care. And there are no extra competence points for that.
 

ewald

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lightangel said:
Sure, but I don't see that happening here. I think very often people just want to help.
Someone getting irritated? I highly doubt that there aren't any issues of the ego there. Same goes for your defense, dismissing everything I said (21.6).
 

willowfox

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Trojan wrote and I quote;

"Whether you want to hear it or not Moonrise the question I might suggest you start to ask from now on is 'how do I deal with my obsession, how do I heal from this obsession'."

I mean no disrespect to Moonrise and never have, but Trojan is 100% correct. We have all tried to help Moonrise face reality but she gets nasty when faced with the truth, you have an obsession, girl.
End of story.
 

luz

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dismissing everything I said
:hissy: Ego issues? :D

okay, this is what you said:
Most of us go through the same frustrating situations again and again. In order to leave that repetition behind, it is necessary to gain insight into it. Everyone has their own process of gaining that insight into their lives' situations.
True, we all deal with obsessions from time to time. But most people also have their own way of communicating and helping others process information and gain insight. And we also have to understand that.
IMO, if this is your view, you do Moonrise a disservice by telling her the Yi says 'send the e-mail'. I don't see that giving her any new insight. I see her getting exposed to more humiliation.

It's best to support people asking questions about their situations and inner workings, whether to themselves, others or the Yi.
I don't know about you, but I know sometimes what I really need is some bluntness, a firm "snap out of it" to make me start to see the light. And sometimes, when you are not listening to what it says anyway, I think it's best to leave the Yi aside.
 

moonrise

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Hi, everyone,

nice debate opened, but must say, that beside ewald, no one understood my point.

I know many people and I also participated in sharing my problem with them in some public forum, but never, NEVER, I got these kind of reponses, to bulg into my private life in this manner!

Your cold, almos sarcastic answers about me and my situation you call "help"? You call "help" that you judge me, that some individual on an ego trip passes by and says: oh, you posted already about this, get over it already - you call this "help"?!
You don't uderstand that by simply, casually saying to someone "oh just get over it" is insulting because you are disregarding me, not seeing me and my issue and not respectng that for me it is not so easy to "just get over it".

You think I am not seeing something, I am not hearing something? I think it is you who don't. I repeat for the last time: YOU DON'T KNOW ME. You only know few lines that I post. I think it is simply unintelligent to have any kind of judgement about me.

I cannot believe that you don't understand that this relationship has been an extremely deep issue for me and it takes a lot of time for me to get over it and understand it fully. You think it is just about some man? My issues with this situation are much much deeper, but I never shared that here, because it is too intimate! Luckily I didn't because you would just tear it into pieces like you are doing with my questions. You wouldn't even slightly understand it.
It is beyond silly that you judge this relationship because I posted some post a few months ago and now I am posting again. You really think you know what was happening in the meanwhile? What was happening AT ALL? What my true inquiery in this is? You don't have a clue! You think you know what is happening IN ME? How I feel, what I think, who I am? You know NOTHING about me!

You think I don't give this relationship any thought? You think that I am not dealing with why this person affected me so deeply and how? You think I don't look inside and see the reasons for my pain? I've been hurt so deeply in this issue and I am still trying to heal - also with trying to communicate with him on some level again or just thinking about it and then seeing if it is truly worthwhile. That's why I ask Yi Jing and I will be MY OWN JUDGE whether to follow its advice or not!!!

You are a bunch of strangers! You think I would share my intimate discoveries about myself HERE? I am not a fool! This is why I don't need any of your "deep insights" - I am sorry, but most fo your answers are just cliches, superficial and typical, empty. Like from some pop magazine. I have my own intelligence and I am using it to understand myself - and I don't need any kind of "help" from some imaginary wannabe therapists here! This is a Yi Jing forum, help me intepret the Yi Jing otherwise stay out! I have been clear about this many times and no one seems to consider it. It is disrepectful.

As I said, you don't understand the real issue here because I never shared it with you and what my true concern is. The question that this man reflects in my life is much deeper that you imagine now and most of you would not even understand it.

I am sorry to say, I am truly deeply dissapointed with this community because I have experience with participating in forums but I have never seen such huge gathering of ego trips and people who use others to assert themselves.

No need for any comments from your side, there is nothing for me here to do, I wish you all the best as our ways part. And thank you to those who understood me and supported me in a kind and respectful way.

goodbye
moonrise
 
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jesed

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Moonrise

Just about the answers; just Yi Jing interpretation. You had got several constant and congruent answers: the relationship is over; move on


Ewald
Well done¡¡¡
 

hilary

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On the one hand...
moonrise said:
"You really think you know what was happening in the meanwhile? What was happening AT ALL? What my true inquiry in this is? You don't have a clue! You think you know what is happening IN ME? How I feel, what I think, who I am? You know NOTHING about me!"
...I feel like this is something every interpreter should have pasted to their wall as a warning and hubris-preventative.

And on the other hand, Moonrise, you need to realise that the Yijing talks about your life in a deep, personal and intimate way. So if you ask people out of the kindness of their hearts to interpret your readings, you're also inviting them at least a little way into these depths - where they do their best for you, working (of course) within their own limits and the limits of the incomplete information you gave. It's a remarkable gift of time, attention and care.

(Thanks, everyone. :) )
 

autumn

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ewald,

If your comment about irritation implied that I was irritated when I gave my interpretation, then let me state for the record that I was not at all irritated by Moonrise. If I had to pinpoint an emotion, it would be incredulity. If that could be called an emotion.

Withholding the truth and nurturing false hope is the greatest sin any reader can make. Much greater than causing a seeker to feel misunderstood and conspired against.

I have never asked for anyone to like me. In fact, I care very little about that. As for why I am here, that is an excellent question I have been asking myself for a few weeks now. It is some kind of calling that I am being introduced to, though I may not continue to post here.
 
L

lightofreason

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hilary said:
On the one hand...
...I feel like this is something every interpreter should have pasted to their wall as a warning and hubris-preventative.

As I wrote in the '"feelings" thread to willowfox in particular but it applies in general:

"In the realm of the singular the only 'science' is that of freedom, and so of ethics/morality. It is this focus on the IC that generates the positive/negative interpretations of symbols that have no such nature. As such, enquiries from the singular cover issues of ethics etc and so 'what should I do', it is right/wrong etc and so a guidance perspective. Your prose more often removes the consideration, there is no 'advice' there is mostly fundamentalist, deterministic drival and all presented in a manner that lacks any true, empathic, concern for the questioner. As such, you come across as dishonest, counterfeit."

If people keep interpreting without consideration of their responsibility, a focus on consequences of actions in the realm of the singular, things will come back and bite you - the issue is that THAT does damage overall.

We can argue as much as we like in the realm of particular-general, but at the level of the singular there are personal issues of the questioner that either need to be delt with OR any interactions make THEM the final judge and jury - all that is offered is advice, suggests, etc etc. NOT doing that moves one into issues of morality/ethics and raises questions about the intent of the interpreter - is it for the questioner or just an ego trip?

Chris.
 
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bruce_g

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autumn said:
ewald,

If your comment about irritation implied that I was irritated when I gave my interpretation, then let me state for the record that I was not at all irritated by Moonrise. If I had to pinpoint an emotion, it would be incredulity. If that could be called an emotion.

Withholding the truth and nurturing false hope is the greatest sin any reader can make. Much greater than causing a seeker to feel misunderstood and conspired against.

I have never asked for anyone to like me. In fact, I care very little about that. As for why I am here, that is an excellent question I have been asking myself for a few weeks now. It is some kind of calling that I am being introduced to, though I may not continue to post here.

You're good at what you do. That doesn't mean the good will always be recognized, much less acknowledged, nor that your help will be well received. You will certainly continue to be criticized. As I see it, it's a package deal.

There are those I will not attempt to assist in interpretation due to past experience with them, i.e. Moonrise. There are those I take a risk interpreting for, and there are those I can afford to invest myself in more fully. Hex. 60.

The only thing that I find disturbing is the “final word” type of interpretations and advise. When a teacher stops asking questions, when a teacher has the first-hand, absolute word from God, when an interpreter feels they have arrived and are the magic bullet, it’s very discouraging. That’s when I want to collect my marbles and bail. Life is too short to waste it on arrogance.

But - there are also magic moments, when people connect, when they say something extraordinary, penetrating, illuminating and memorable. Those are the times I feel privileged to be a part of this forum.

As I see it, it’s like taking a walk. Half the walk is with the wind in my face, the other half is with the wind at my back. There’s prevailing and countervailing forces, and it’s the countervailing forces that enable me to become strong. The prevailing forces enable me to move ahead. There can’t be one without the other, here or anywhere else.
 

stevev

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Tragic !

Readers, sitters, interpreters & diviners, lets get out the ouji, wiji, wooji [spell checker couldn‘t help] board.

The IChing is a game and a joke, it used to be a good game and a funny joke, what happened ?
 

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