35.4>23 Up to no good?

[naserian]

Hello everyone,

My brother is planning on getting married this summer. I'm a bit worried about the marriage because I feel uneasy about the girl's motives for marrying him. Indeed, within two months of their first date, she had him buy her a luxury car - he's gone into debt to do that - She's convinced him they needed a nicer place. He's now moved from his current place into a large house and pay about 3 times what he currently pays in monthly rent. He's now also asked me for a loan to buy some nice furniture she wanted to have in the house.
I asked the Iching what her motives were for marrying him and got 35.4>23. I understand this as a warning that she's up to no good. Is this the correct interpretation or am I being paranoid? Thanks for your help.

 

[tiziano]

It really seems so...
Her way of progressing is by acting as a rodent, eating all of his grain (and energy, and life). Hilary wonderfully describes the rodent's personality: "a myopic mentality, without greater purpose, always feeling threatened and exposed, and motivated prmarily by the fear of loss", which answers to your question in a quite direct and drastical way. She is wearing him away, stripping away all his resources.

The only doubt I have is: how much of all this can be a projection of your own fears?
But, if the facts you told are happening actually that way, I can reasonably say she is no good for him.

 

[naserian]

Thank you very much Tiziano. I was also worried the iching was mirorring my own fears back to me. The description I gave however is only factual... there are also other indicators of the stripping away you describe - such as, for example, the monthly 5 star getaways she insists on -. The problem is that I'm not quite sure how to handle the situation. My brother does not see that there's anything wrong with her demands - he is terribly in love - and I'm not quite sure how to manage the issue.

 

[Trojina]

Thank you very much Tiziano. I was also worried the iching was mirorring my own fears back to me. The description I gave however is only factual... there are also other indicators of the stripping away you describe - such as, for example, the monthly 5 star getaways she insists on -. The problem is that I'm not quite sure how to handle the situation. My brother does not see that there's anything wrong with her demands - he is terribly in love - and I'm not quite sure how to manage the issue.

well its not your problem to manage is it...assuming hes an adult and of sound mind. I feel the 35.4 could be a comment of your feelings around intervention ? Maybe it is you who is scuttling around like a rodent looking for this and that (no offence intended)

Could be it describes her and the question has been answered directly but apart from offering your opinion to your brother I can't see there is anything else you can do. He has to learn from his own mistakes, if it is a mistake


Why not ask what you actually you need to know about which is what, if anything, you need to do in terms of 'helping' him.

 

[tiziano]

You're welcome!
I know this is an extremely difficult situation...
Your brother would never acknowledge her egoistic behaviour as long as he is so in love.
I don't pretend to know what you should do, but I've had a similar situation in my life and it was a hard experience... I can try to suggest what I've learned from it.
It may be important to talk about the problem with all your family, but in fact it depends on what kind of family you are.
Anyway, remember you can't make choices for him, even if it were evident to all of you that he is wrong.
His life is his own and maybe he HAS to do a wrong choice, or he'll never learn, nor will he appreciate your help, and there are strong risks of "crumbling" for the whole family. It could be a trial for the family's unity, that only authentic love can glue together.
Support him and try to understand his point of view FIRST of all and ABOVE all.
If he has to understand a tough thing from life, no one of you can make the experience for him, he HAS to.
In my opinion, the family's role is to assist and protect with warmth and love, without overprotecting nor substituting to him. Talk much, with understanding. Try to make him imagine his future life with her, make him ask himself questions (without suggesting too directly, or he won't). Don't impose your point of view, rather try to wake up his sensitivity someway.
If in doubt, ask the Yi frequently with detailed questions about strategy.
This is all I can say... good luck!

 

[ilemacedonia]

Perseverance brings danger.
It may be that IC tells you if you persevere to worry about their relationship and if you try to merge into the whole situation it may end up with danger for you.
Maybe your brother is in love with her and if you try to get into this he may think that you're jealous. From my own experience I know that in many cases I finished as a "bad guy" when I tried to deal with others relationships.
SPLITTING APART. IT does not further one
To go anywhere.
It says that maybe you need to do nothing right now.
Sometimes IC gives us a direct advice to us instead for the person for whom you ask the question. It is something like in Tarot or in Horary Astrology where a certain point from the spread (or the chart) shows the position of the person who ask the question in the whole situation of divination. Sometimes those tools warning us that the whole divination process would eventually end up with mistrusting or disappointing from the divination from the persons for whom we consult the oracles. I think in this case IC is trying to warn you not to get into the whole situation and stay as observer. But, you only know - you asked the question. Maybe IC is giving the explanation of the situation in the marriage of your brother.
You must use your own intuition. There's no consulting any kind of oracle without using your intuition. Don't be afraid - just trust in your impression regarding the answer.
Divination has two tools in itself: the technique that the diviner use and his intuition.
You must have both.
There's a story about the Eagle and the Lark. The Lark can't fly as high as the eagle but one day she wanted her singing to be heard from the Gods in the heaven and she become sad. Than she remembered that if she lay on the wings of the eagle that the eagle can help her to go up in heaven and the Gods can hear her singing. The Eagle was flattered that he can help the Lark to sing in front of the gods because he can't sing like her. The Eagle bring the Lark to the gods and they were so amazed by her singing and acknowledge the help of the eagle who was very kind to bring the Lark up in heaven.
The Eagle is the technique that we use and the Lark is our intuition.
My point here is: trust your own intuition. Trust your impressions. You've got the answer, just look inside!

My Best To You
Ile

 

[deepstillwater]

I asked the Iching what her motives were for marrying him and got 35.4>23.

This sounds like a distressing situation for you.

I'm only a beginner, but I hope this is of some help.

Perhaps the hexigram 35 in general relates to your brother: he is clearly in love as you say and he is proceeding forward, advancing with the relationship and "promoting" his girlfriend as it were. There is radiance to his love?

Huang's commentary on the symbol hexigram says:

Light comes forth over the earth
(love is in the air)
An image of proceeding forward
(marriage)
In correspondence with this
the superior person cultivates his virtues
(and beautiful objects for his soon-to-be bride perhaps)
And brightens them by himself.

In my mind, your brother feels this moment in his life requires him to be expansive and progress - and that means spending some money.

Your question related to her motives and I believe you are right that 35.4 relates to her given your description of her behaviours. Huang says this line is at a close place to the king, but because it is a yang element in a yin place it is unqualified. That it is a fat greedy rat acting without a goal. This is a warning for the rat - because even steadfastness will bring evil to a person who is not virtuous and is greedy.

The second hexigram, 23, in my experience has always meant a little death - and a complete strip back of resources/knowledge/people...

Certainly this could mean the future of their relationship - or at least their finances! When adornment becomes excessive, the beauty must fall away.

But perhaps this is also an expression of your feelings of your relationship with your brother - that there is a falling away of closeness, trust, and finances as you have loaned him a fair bit of money as you say.

As others have mentioned, perhaps this also requires delicacy on your part as it is easy to shoot the messenger of bad news - which would bring about the situation described in 23.

It sounds like a tough situation - particularly if you feel you see something wrong and that you want to protect your brother.

All the best

 

[danadanadana]

35,4 > 23
If your brother is asking you to loan him money for fancy furniture, it would appear that you are a prosperous sister. You and your friend(s) have behaved wisely and acquired wealth. Now you are set upon by jealous, greedy people - your brother and his fiance. DO NOT lend them the money for any reason!

 

[yamabushi]

35.4 ia also about person who is always again and again doing same mistake, because 35 is a time of light and nothong will passed unnoticed...

 

[naserian]

well its not your problem to manage is it...assuming hes an adult and of sound mind. I feel the 35.4 could be a comment of your feelings around intervention ? Maybe it is you who is scuttling around like a rodent looking for this and that (no offence intended)

Could be it describes her and the question has been answered directly but apart from offering your opinion to your brother I can't see there is anything else you can do. He has to learn from his own mistakes, if it is a mistake


Why not ask what you actually you need to know about which is what, if anything, you need to do in terms of 'helping' him.

Thanks Trojan. You are absolutely right: I can not interfere in my brother's affairs and frankly, I have not even attempted to do that. The most I've done is question the "need" for a luxury car... Could 35.4 represent my thoughts? i.e. I'm worrying aimlessly/pointlessly around an issue I can do nothing about?

I took your advice and asked the iching what I can do to help my brother and got: 37.4>13 - This seems to reflect the advice of many people on this forum: to be there for my brother and simply provide support/be a good friend.

I asked what I needed to know about the situation and got: 48.4

The well is being lined. No error.
The well is being repaired and it cannot be used until the work is completed. Sometimes, one must devote one’s energies to one’s own spiritual improvement. At this time it is impossible to help others.

Any thoughts?

 

[naserian]

Thanks Yamabushi. You mean she might have done this before? I know nothing about her background.... Or do you mean my brother keeps attracting the wrong type of woman? Could be true from what I know of his history. Or do you mean whatever the case things will come to light?

 

[naserian]

Perseverance brings danger.
It may be that IC tells you if you persevere to worry about their relationship and if you try to merge into the whole situation it may end up with danger for you.
Maybe your brother is in love with her and if you try to get into this he may think that you're jealous. From my own experience I know that in many cases I finished as a "bad guy" when I tried to deal with others relationships.
SPLITTING APART. IT does not further one
To go anywhere.
It says that maybe you need to do nothing right now.
Sometimes IC gives us a direct advice to us instead for the person for whom you ask the question. It is something like in Tarot or in Horary Astrology where a certain point from the spread (or the chart) shows the position of the person who ask the question in the whole situation of divination. Sometimes those tools warning us that the whole divination process would eventually end up with mistrusting or disappointing from the divination from the persons for whom we consult the oracles. I think in this case IC is trying to warn you not to get into the whole situation and stay as observer. But, you only know - you asked the question. Maybe IC is giving the explanation of the situation in the marriage of your brother.
You must use your own intuition. There's no consulting any kind of oracle without using your intuition. Don't be afraid - just trust in your impression regarding the answer.
Divination has two tools in itself: the technique that the diviner use and his intuition.
You must have both.
There's a story about the Eagle and the Lark. The Lark can't fly as high as the eagle but one day she wanted her singing to be heard from the Gods in the heaven and she become sad. Than she remembered that if she lay on the wings of the eagle that the eagle can help her to go up in heaven and the Gods can hear her singing. The Eagle was flattered that he can help the Lark to sing in front of the gods because he can't sing like her. The Eagle bring the Lark to the gods and they were so amazed by her singing and acknowledge the help of the eagle who was very kind to bring the Lark up in heaven.
The Eagle is the technique that we use and the Lark is our intuition.
My point here is: trust your own intuition. Trust your impressions. You've got the answer, just look inside!

My Best To You
Ile

Thanks Ilemacedonia. I really like the story of the eagle and the lark. Beautiful!

 

[naserian]

You're welcome!
I know this is an extremely difficult situation...
Your brother would never acknowledge her egoistic behaviour as long as he is so in love.
I don't pretend to know what you should do, but I've had a similar situation in my life and it was a hard experience... I can try to suggest what I've learned from it.
It may be important to talk about the problem with all your family, but in fact it depends on what kind of family you are.
Anyway, remember you can't make choices for him, even if it were evident to all of you that he is wrong.
His life is his own and maybe he HAS to do a wrong choice, or he'll never learn, nor will he appreciate your help, and there are strong risks of "crumbling" for the whole family. It could be a trial for the family's unity, that only authentic love can glue together.
Support him and try to understand his point of view FIRST of all and ABOVE all.
If he has to understand a tough thing from life, no one of you can make the experience for him, he HAS to.
In my opinion, the family's role is to assist and protect with warmth and love, without overprotecting nor substituting to him. Talk much, with understanding. Try to make him imagine his future life with her, make him ask himself questions (without suggesting too directly, or he won't). Don't impose your point of view, rather try to wake up his sensitivity someway.
If in doubt, ask the Yi frequently with detailed questions about strategy.
This is all I can say... good luck!

Thanks Tiziano. The iching seems to agree with you. When I asked what I could do to help my brother, the answer I got was 37.4>13

 

[yamabushi]

Thanks Yamabushi. You mean she might have done this before? I know nothing about her background.... Or do you mean my brother keeps attracting the wrong type of woman? Could be true from what I know of his history. Or do you mean whatever the case things will come to light?

Yes, something like that. Both options are possible, maybe you could do some research on her bacground and then show it to your brother like proofs (things in the light

Line 4 in 35 is serious warning, if he will persist in behaviour like buying car, renting new house, borrowing money, and everything because her it will lead right to 23.
To nowhere, and to the complete failure of relationship when he spent all of his money.

Willhelm;

In times of progress it is easy for strong men in the wrong places to amass great possessions. But such conduct shuns the light. And since times of progress are also always times in which dubious procedures are inevitably brought to light, perseverance in such action always leads to danger.

See, how is this appropriate, "to amass great possessions" , "dubious procedures are inevitably brought to light".

You can and you must open his eyes, because he will destroy himself.

 

[themis]

I'd say Hex, 35.4 aptly reflects the lady's behaviour .. which is not ladylike. Sure sounds demanding
and unreasonable. There's not much you can do, you might find yourself embarrassed if you try to
draw your brother's attention to the fact that he's probably going into something he won't be able to
cope with. Hex. 37.4: be there for him without intervening too much.

 

[yamabushi]

I'd say Hex, 35.4 aptly reflects the lady's behaviour .. which is not ladylike. Sure sounds demanding
and unreasonable. There's not much you can do, you might find yourself embarrassed if you try to
draw your brother's attention to the fact that he's probably going into something he won't be able to
cope with. Hex. 37.4: be there for him without intervening too much.

She asked about her motives...her motives are; "to amass great possessions"...that is completly clear

 

[themis]

@Yam - the response is intended for the querent. It's quite clear her motive is to 'amass'.

 

[Trojina]

Thanks Trojan. You are absolutely right: I can not interfere in my brother's affairs and frankly, I have not even attempted to do that. The most I've done is question the "need" for a luxury car... Could 35.4 represent my thoughts? i.e. I'm worrying aimlessly/pointlessly around an issue I can do nothing about?

I took your advice and asked the iching what I can do to help my brother and got: 37.4>13 - This seems to reflect the advice of many people on this forum: to be there for my brother and simply provide support/be a good friend.

I asked what I needed to know about the situation and got: 48.4

The well is being lined. No error.
The well is being repaired and it cannot be used until the work is completed. Sometimes, one must devote one’s energies to one’s own spiritual improvement. At this time it is impossible to help others.

Any thoughts?

I think you should stop worrying so much. 37.4 shows your brother values your relationship, perhaps he hears you more than you think. Its good you are concerned for him and he knows that but theres not much more you can do in reality is there besides letting him know your POV

Re 48.4 it seems things could be working out in their own way in his situation. In other words theres not much else you can do since some kind of renovation work in the relationship is underway anyway

 

[icegrapefruit]

Hello everyone,

My brother is planning on getting married this summer. I'm a bit worried about the marriage because I feel uneasy about the girl's motives for marrying him. Indeed, within two months of their first date, she had him buy her a luxury car - he's gone into debt to do that - She's convinced him they needed a nicer place. He's now moved from his current place into a large house and pay about 3 times what he currently pays in monthly rent. He's now also asked me for a loan to buy some nice furniture she wanted to have in the house.
I asked the Iching what her motives were for marrying him and got 35.4>23. I understand this as a warning that she's up to no good. Is this the correct interpretation or am I being paranoid? Thanks for your help.

Oh my, Naserian, I rarely see a reading as clean as this. Sorry about the difficult situation. As people already said before me, your brother only can be helped with warm and loving support that's not trying to tell him what to do but is there for him and ready catch him when his eyes finally open and he falls from the skies. Your reading tells about it nicely. Best wishes to you all!

 

[naserian]

Update

Hello everyone,

For those who are interested, it turned out this was a very serious warning. My brother got married to the lady in question in December 2010. She then proceeded to try to get him to fund her business - he almost invested close to a million USD in this thing - before he realized she was actually tricking him, didn't care about him, and was only interested in his money. They are now in the middle of a - messy - divorce.

 

[yamabushi]

Hello everyone,

For those who are interested, it turned out this was a very serious warning. My brother got married to the lady in question in December 2010. She then proceeded to try to get him to fund her business - he almost invested close to a million USD in this thing - before he realized she was actually tricking him, didn't care about him, and was only interested in his money. They are now in the middle of a - messy - divorce.

Can he sue her for fraud or something like that?