36. Ming I / Darkening of the Light

[proserpine]

Miakoda is correct.Line 4 means seeing how it is and leaving.Sometimes it means you can lkeave because no one notices you.It does change to #55..I just pictured itm and if you think of the structure of the lines, then, yes, it would change to Abundance or Peaking

 

[proserpine]

Rosada, I've found that the I Ching speaks on may levels of expereince at once/.It may have well meant that your freind saw what was going on, and left (relaized not just that she could quit w/o guilt, but could see it wa snot just her imagination that somethig was wrong.
And, yes, he took *her* to court for a made up reason, but, she was probably going to have to remember her own boundaries and keep her own counsel because he was wrong, and in at least a metaphorical way, insane..(meaning he was not thinking straight, realistically or soberly by cheating, and then trying to punish *her*).
That imo isthe reference to the recourse to legaltie, it's abstract as well as actual, maybe even more so...also for her to remember that she's free(out in the Sun at noontime, no more darkening of the light) but not necessarily free forever.
Still--#55 usually meanszomething like" be where you are and enjoy what you have--tomorrow is a new day, let tomorrow take care of itself.

 

[proserpine]

Rosada, actually, I too like Murphy's interpretations.While I am no longer a Christian, his interpretations are comfrting, and as well--uncannily true to the meaning (strangely since it's Biblical).becuase if you se emy earleir remark, that's what I sugested as an interpreation and not thinking of M7urphy's either...she saw how irrational, and caught up in his affair (and maybe even more)her boyfriend was, so she can leave, knowing it was not her fault, she was not crazy for feeling something was not working.
Detaching, in that sense, physically, *and* emotionally is what Murphy is talking about--leaving the scene peacefully without causing more problems forher own self by trying to get an irrational person to see reality..Know what I mean?(I think you definitely so, too!

 

[rosada]

Proserpine, hey I really got your connection that the boyfriend fulfilled the definition of "insane"! LOL! That sums up what 36 is all about doesn't it? The examples the I Ching refers to are the good men held captive by "insane" rulers in ancient times but we sure come up with those conditions today. In other words, we have to survive in a world where the rules and the rulers are not just hard or stronger, they are downright crazy. 36 tells us how to survive these circumstances: veil your light. 36.4 tells what to do when the situation is impossible and you CAN leave - do it, don't try to fix a crazy situation just get the heck out. Then 36.5 tells what to do when you can't leave. The ancient example is of a good man in the court of an evil tyrant. A modern life situation might be when you have a job and your supervisor is crazy but you can't afford to quit.

 

[rosada]

0 Six in the fifth place means:
Darkening of the light as with Prine Chi.
Perseverance furthers.

Prince Chi lived at the court of the evil tyrant Chou Hsin, who although not mentioned by name, furnishes the histroical example on which this whole situation is based, Prince Chi was a relative of the tyrant and could not withdraw from court; therefore he concealed his true sentiments and feigned insanity. Although he was held a slave, he did not allow external misery to deflect him from his convictions.
This provides a teaching for those who cannot leave their posts in times of darkness. In order to escape the danger, they need invincible perseverance of spirit and redoubled caution in their dealings with the world.

 

[charly]

... Thank you, too, Charly for posting these translations for us. I'm just amazed anyone was ever able to reach an understanding of the symbols when they have so many possible meanings.

Hi, Rosada:

Tha's fine. The more the meanings the more the ease. But there are no warranties of truth.

«... en mi soledad / he visto cosas muy claras / que no son verdad...»
«... in my solitude I have seen very clear things that were not truth...»
A. Machado

H.36 has something to do with sun and light but also with hunting, archery, chevalry, yi people (1), korean people (2) ... I wonder if the belly isn't the strong horse belly, behind which the rider can conceal himself if wounded ...

The fifth posture is termed 'hiding on horse's left or right side(左右?裏藏身)' and called 'hiding on side' in popular name. Execute hiding on horse's right side and grab sand and soil and throw being hanged on the top of feet with the head to the ground.
Then execute hiding on horse's left side.

[a text about the history of horseback archery, with many prints]

Korean Equestrian Martial Arts
From: http://www.steppenreiter.de/Korea/kema.htm

Maybe Ming-Yi is the Horse?

Yours,

Charly

______________________
(1) Yi is the name of an old barbarian tribe.
(2) In Ji-Zi myth the Count of Ji ends his life a a korean ruler, although true for koreans maybe not historic.

 

[ravenstar]

0 Six in the fifth place means:
Darkening of the light as with Prine Chi.
Perseverance furthers.

Prince Chi lived at the court of the evil tyrant Chou Hsin, who although not mentioned by name, furnishes the histroical example on which this whole situation is based, Prince Chi was a relative of the tyrant and could not withdraw from court; therefore he concealed his true sentiments and feigned insanity. Although he was held a slave, he did not allow external misery to deflect him from his convictions.
This provides a teaching for those who cannot leave their posts in times of darkness. In order to escape the danger, they need invincible perseverance of spirit and redoubled caution in their dealings with the world.

When I read this rosada, I thought of the song the Beatles sang, "Blackbird", "Blackbird singing in the dead of night, take these broken wings and learn to fly. All your life, you were only waiting for this moment to arise."

Is this a form of detachment, self restraint, discipline? Separating ourselves from the external pain (impossible people) so that we keep our energy within, as well as becoming focused and aware of the patterns and symbols around us. We develop a strategy of watching the tyrant, keeping an eye and keeping track of their strenghts as well as their vulnerabilties/weaknesses. Instead of succumbing to the tyrant, which is exhausting in itself, we pay close attention to everything around us. Reminds me of the series Prison Break.

ravenstar

 

[rosada]

I like your "Blackbird" connection, ravenstar. Hey, Topal, when you are through with dessert how about starting a movie and music thread?

 

[rosada]

# Six at the top means:
Not light but darkness.
First he climbs to heaven,
Then he is plunged into the depths of the earth.

Here the climax of the darkening is reached. The dark power at first held so high a place that it could wound all who were on the side of good and of the light. But in the end it perishes of its own darkness, for evil must itself fall at the very moment when it has wholly overcome the good, and thus cosumed the energy to which it owed its duration.

"First he climbed up to heaven." Thus he might have been able to illumine the lands of all the four quarters of the earth.
"Then he plunged into the depths of the earth," because he lost his rule.

First he held a position through which he might have been able to enlighten all the people of the relm. Instead however, he made it his business to injure men, and thus transgressed the rule that binds one who governs; as a result, he prepared his own downfall.
The line stands at the top, where the earth veils the sun most heavily; but it is also the first to be unmasked in its sinister character when the sun reappears.

 

[ravenstar]

Being a newbie, I could be totally wrong with this. If so, I’m hoping someone will set me straight.

It seems that no matter how pure our intentions are, we will always create the polarity of both sides – the dark and the light. (You cannot go high without going down). So within ourselves, there is a world that is partly at unrest and partly at peace…..the dark and the light.

Psychologists have been telling us that the human psyche is made up of paradoxes, contradictions and oppositions. What I find rather interesting about this is that the mind creates with thoughts and logic, it sees with light. And the heart creates with emotions, feelings and dreams, it sees in the dark.

36.6 could be a time when our psyche feels hopelessly let down by our own self designed world which is starting to crumple around us. What was once our source of strength and sustenance rears its ugly head and now threatens to tear and rip us apart. The accompanying feeling is a deep and unexplainable loneliness that makes one feel like an outcast, exiled from a life that now seems to have taken on no meaning. We’re in the throes of the dark night of the soul. You can’t seem to reorganize or regroup yourself and nothing is more frightening and depressing. We feel separated from life, it’s like we’re living in a vacuum, disconnected from and numb of any Feelings. All we want is for it to stop! And it will if we begin to heal our wounds by stepping into our own shadows….and it won’t be easy! But once we do, the dark won't scare us anymore.

ravenstar

 

[proserpine]

Thank you Rosada for responding to me. yes--exactly-- in modern times, it could well be a crazy or cruel supervisor or structure and /or family member or partner that we can't work with or live with and "cant change"!
I'm so glad you got my point!

 

[maremaria]

...... We’re in the throes of the dark night of the soul. ....
ravenstar

Hi Ravenstar,
I liked what you said and this is how I see 36.6 .

In a real dark night of the soul it is always three o clock in the morning, day after day." As F.Scott Fitzgerald said. The suffering seems unending and our arid mind and numb heart enemies instead of alliances.

After the sunset, during the nights we cannot believe that the sun will reborn the next day and all this about the life-death- rebirth cycle sounds so foolish and frustrating. But the frustration is because we are afraid to go through the darkness to reach the light And here the choice is either stay forever between those two world or say to ourself “ok , this is how things are. Day, night and then another new day.” This “night” will pass too. Embrace the joy and the sadness, the light and the darkness, the good and the evil.

And then 22. simple beauty. Maybe as a lotus flower, floating above the muddy waters

Maria

 

[charly]

... we are afraid to go through the darkness to reach the light And here the choice is either stay forever between those two world or say to ourself “ok , this is how things are. Day, night and then another new day.” This “night” will pass too. Embrace the joy and the sadness, the light and the darkness, the good and the evil...

María:

I also believe that that the «darkness» from which the I Ching speaks is not a bad thing.

From the reading of Wilhelm/Baynes some people could extract that the I Ching presents a sort of fighting between light and darkess, each under the command of its own Lord, and that the darkness must be destroyed.

I think that the advice of the Yi is to take light and shadows as inseparable and both necessary. I like more another W/B idea, that we must take care of our own light. Sometimes we must veil our light.

Sometimes our light is poor but it serves our goals.

Amanti sotto la luna di Sin Yun-bok​

Candle lantern form: http://www.corea.it/lanterne_chorong.htm

From Korea, the supposed last country of Yi-Zi. Sub-rosa affair.

Chinese text curiosities:

From line 6:

不bu4 / not / no / un.. /
明ming2 / clear / light / bright / to understand /
晦hui4 / dark / darkness / night / unlucky / last day of lunar month / moonless night /

unclear darkness (not clear the origin or the nature of darkness)
deep darkness, absolute darkness (darkess without any clarity)

But darknes is 晦hui = 日 ri4 sun + 每 mei3 (all / every / each)
and 每 mei3 = concealment + 母 mu3 (mother / exhuberant woman)
an exhuberant woman concealed from the sun

Maybe when speaking of climbing to the sky and entering into the earth the Yi is not speaking of the sun but of the woman.

From line 5:

箕ji1: winnow basket / flat basket (for agricultural work or for offerings ?)
子zi3: child / master / Count / Lord /
之zhi1: ...'s / him / her / it /
明ming2: clear / light / bright / to understand /
夷yi2: a barbarian /

I wonder if 箕子 is the name of Count of Ji and why was not censored from a Zhou book, being Ji-Zi a Shang noble.

More literally it could be translated as Basket's Lord or as Basket's Child:

• Basket's Lord: an agricultural deity in a world of cattle breeders ?
• Baskets's Child: chidren that bears baskets in offerings were girls (1)

I wonder if Yi-Zi could have been a woman.

yours,


Charly
_______________________
(1) like the greek «caneforos»






Basket's

 

[maremaria]

Hi Charly,

I agree , that we must take care or our own light and veil it when necessary. But how to do that, when , and for what reasons is the taught part. And I think that this what this hex lines talks about. How to hide our light without feeling frustration with the other or with yourself.

Yesterday, an acquaintance of mine was talking to some others and me about her new job. After two years she finished studies, she found a job relate to his specialization. Yesterday was the 3rd day in her new position. She wasn’t happy at all although it was something that was looking for a long time ago. He darkness in that situation was not so awful. Common things we have to deal in a working environment. We tried to explain her that this is how things are in such environments but in her mind she believed that his “fire” was in danger. Will she was talking a image came in my mind. (Influenced from Bruce's comments of 36 :Light need not be shown to burn.Safer in the lighted cave than in a hostile wind)..She was holding a flamed torch and suddenly strong wind were blowing and a rain started, and she was shouting to the wind and rain and to what bring them.

Sometimes things are like that. Strong winds and rainfall are there and can put off our fire. But it is on our hand (most of the times) to go to our cave to protect our fire. No one else can do that. No one else will do that.

We have to accept the darkness and adapt. We can understand that dark exist but can not accepted deep inside us and we feel frustration, disappointment and all that fire-consuming feelings. Accepting is different than understanding. Accepting bears peace and brings peace inside us. Its like saying to the wind or “ok you are strong and you can put off my fire but I wont let you do that”. We cannot blame the wind for blowing; it is his nature to do that, but ourselves for not protecting our fire/life/being.

I like Lise’s line 4 : “Entering the left belly. Catching the heart of Hiding Brightness. Coming out of front door and courtyard.”

Coming out of frond door. I like a lot that “frond door” beautiful image.
Like Thiseus, entrering in the labyrinth, killing the Minotauros and then coming out.

Maria

 

[charly]

Hi Charly,

I agree , that we must take care or our own light and veil it when necessary ...Sometimes things are like that. Strong winds and rainfall are there and can put off our fire. ... Accepting is different than understanding. Accepting bears peace and brings peace inside us. Its like saying to the wind or “ok you are strong and you can put off my fire but I wont let you do that”... I like Lise’s line 4 : “Entering the left belly. Catching the heart of Hiding Brightness. Coming out of front door and courtyard.” ...

María:

Strong winds blowing our light menace to extinguish it, it's like we entering the left belly: if we must conceal us, we can hold alive the main of ours, our light, but we cann't retreat from the world, we must exit from our secret courts and live like common people live, sometimes we must mimetize like a lizard, but we mustn't surrender to stronger forces, don't turn out our light.

Maybe we must live in the darkness but the darkness isn't so bad if we kept our resources with us.

Remember:

«A naked woman in the dark has a clarity that light up us...»:
«Una mujer desnuda y en lo oscuro tiene una claridad que nos alumbra...»
​

Mario Benedetti
from: http://www.palabravirtual.com/index...+Benedetti&t=Una+mujer+desnuda+y+en+lo+oscuro

And the chinese character here used for «darkness» depicts a naked woman concealed from the sun, a naked woman in the dark... instead of a candle.

Yours,

Charly

 

[Sparhawk]

And the chinese character here used for «darkness» depicts a naked woman concealed from the sun, a naked woman in the dark... instead of a candle.

Yours,

Charly

Ahem, I don't see a naked woman in that character but you can easily convince me...

 

[charly]

Ahem, I don't see a naked woman in that character but you can easily convince me...

Luis:

Of course. If Sears can see a woman dressing the hair, why could I not see a naked woman in the dark. Why to exaggerate the breasts as the small seal character do if not naked?

Maybe Benedetti knows the I Ching, the naked woman is not only necesary but indespensable in case of:

• grief, distress
• blackout
• moonless night

Una mujer desnuda y en lo oscuro
tiene una claridad que nos alumbra
de modo que si ocurre un desconsuelo
un apagón o una noche sin luna
es conveniente y hasta imprescindible
tener a mano una mujer desnuda. (1)​

Benedetti
from: http://www.clarin.com/diario/especiales/benedetti/poema2.htm

Do you need more reasons?

Maybe you wonder from where cames the light to the naked woman. Surely she has not a fluorescent skin like fishes from the deep. Not only the darkness is unclear, also the light. We don't nkow the light origin or nature, but the light is there:

Menos tu vientre
todo es oscuro,
menos tu vientre
claro y profundo. (2)​

M.Hernández
from: http://www.poemasyrelatos.net/poemas/m/066_menos-miguel-her.htm?Autor=325

Maybe this guy also knows the I Ching! Maybe both guys also thinks that if Ming-Yi is a bird, Ji-Zi could be a woman (the child that bears basket, the canephoros). It reminds me another poet:

Que púberes canéforas te ofrenden el acanto,
que sobre tu sepulcro no se derrame el llanto,
sino rocío, vino, miel:
que el pámpano allí brote, las flores de Citeres,
¡y que se escuchen vagos suspiros de mujeres
bajo un simbólico laurel!​

Rubén Darío (to Verlaine)
from: http://www.poema-de-amor.com.ar/mostrar-poema.php?poema=4512

H.36 key words: benefit / profit , light, clarity, darkness, belly, heart, bird, horse, sky, earth

Un abrazo,

Charly


_________________
(1) translated by BabelFish:
«A woman undresses and in the dark has a clarity that illuminates us so that if a blackout happens a grief or a night without moon it is advisable and even essential to have a naked woman by hand»

(2) translated by BabelFish:
«Except your belly everything is dark, except your clear and deep belly.»

(3) translated by BabelFish:
«That puber canephores offer you the acant, that on your tomb the weeping is not spilled, but dew to you, came, honey: that the pámpano appears there, the flowers of Citeres, and that vague sighs of women under a symbolic laurel are listened to!» (Maybe BabelFish is not the best for this work)

 

[maremaria]

And the chinese character here used for «darkness» depicts a naked woman concealed from the sun, a naked woman in the dark... instead of a candle.

Yours,

Charly

Can you tell me how do you perceive that image ? Cannot understand it.

Maria

 

[charly]

Can you tell me how do you perceive that image ? Cannot understand it.

Maria

María:

The chinese character is 晦hui4.
A good source in the web for character analysis is:
http://www.chineseetymology.org/ by Richard Sears

Here you can paste the chinese character, say 晦, and you get:

• traditional and simplified characters
• phonetic and signific componentes
• etymology
• Shuo Wen quotation
• english senses
• seal, bronze and oracle identified forms (sometimes few, sometimes a lot)

for hui4:

Simplified: Unicode := 6666 GB2312-80 := BBDE 晦
Traditional: Unicode := 6666 Big5 := B1E2 晦
Phonetic: 每 mei3 wu3 母 mu3
Signific: 日 ri4 sun
Etymology: Phonetic Signific, aspect of the sun 日 - dark
Simplification: no simplification
Cantonese:
Taiwanese:
ShuoWen: 月盡也從日每聲
English Senses For: hui4 the last day of every month in the lunar calendar / night / evening / dark / obscure / indistinguishable / unlucky / bad luck

Character: 晦
Class: Traditioal=Simplified

Seal Characters s04818

LST Seal Characters L21595 L21596

Bronze Characters [none]

Oracle Characters j16160


Copyright (c) 2003 Richard Sears

From: http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=晦&submitButton1=Etymology

There you see that:

晦hui4 is a compund of 日 ri4 sun and 每 mei3 every/each
每 mei3 in turn is a compound of a top stroke and 母 mu3 mother / woman (a woman with enphasis in her nipples)

The top stroke looks like a grass shoot but sometimes in seen as something that makes shadow → concealment. If you take this last view, you have sun + concealment + woman, a woman concealed from the sun, thus dark, darkness.

I only point at the nakedness of the woman, if you don't trust me see the seal character

Isn't she naked? In oracle characters the woman is kneeling.

Maybe if we take the upper stroke as grass shoot, the darkness is not so clear:

Here the woman has the shape of an amazon. She has something in the head like plumes or a crown, a woman of high rank, a Lady. Maybe The Bright Lady.

I used only Sears but there are other sources.

I believe: NAKED WOMAN IN THE DARK or BRIGHT LADY are the same, a woman veiling her light, a woman shining in the shadows, H.36.

Yours,


Charly

 

[Sparhawk]

I only point at the nakedness of the woman, if you don't trust me see the seal character

Isn't she naked? In oracle characters the woman is kneeling.

I stand corrected... Actually, she's quite the looker!

Un abrazo,

 

[maremaria]

Thank you Charly

Maria

 

[charly]

I stand corrected... Actually, she's quite the looker!
Un abrazo,

Luis:

Better see these modern chinese «little mothers» (1)

with more detail at: http://www.cnarts.cn/zl/11360.html
​

You will understand the reason why for me the meaning of 母 is not mother but exhuberant woman.

Maybe the influence of our countries slang.

Un abrazo,


Charly
____________________
(1) «mamitas»

 

[charly]

Thank you Charly

Maria

María:

Here you have the evolution of the character:

The pictograph for the character of mother (mu 母) in Chinese represents the form of a female kneeling with her hands on her knees (the related pictograph for girl [nu 女] is symbol of ). The addition of two dots suggests breast feeding, thereby making the distinction of motherhood in traditional Chinese society. A horizontal line above suggests a hairpin, also indicating adulthood.
From: http://www.npm.gov.tw/english/exhbition/ewen0630/b.htm

The seal characters are at the top of each page in the KangXi ZiDian, there is a big image of the page at:

http://www.kangxizidian.com/kangxi/0588.gif

Look at the difference between the first and the third characters, the last has one horizontal stroke instead of two. In the standard script it has a vertical stroke instead of the two central points. The breasts were censored.

Both from: http://www.zhongwen.com/

Yours,


Charly