37. Chia Jen / The Family [The Clan]

[rosada]

Interesting how the first three lines of 37 discribe a situation where it seems the wife and children need to be disciplined, made to align with the orders of the husband, then line 4 calls the wife "the treasure of the house". I think of the book Life With Father about a Victorian era family where the father is constantly getting things in a muddle, giving totally inappropriate orders and demands and the wife just goes about quietly making everything run right.

 

[rosada]

We live in a cabin decorated in Early Hippie - lots of color and doo dads. Yesterday my husband hung up a huge black and white block print of Frederick Douglas. Frederick Douglas was a slave who taught himself to read and eventually escaped and became a foremost leader of the abolishionist movement. He has an expression like God saying, "I know what is right and I know what is wrong and I see it all." Anyway, the effect of having this strong male portrait in the middle of our living room is that somehow all the chaos and confusion in this house seems to now have a feel of cheerful spontainaity, and when we do want to streighten up it seems very easy to recognize what needs to be done to make everything be in order.

 

[charly]

Mind you, if we go by the Chinese characters, there's no "She" in it. Only "treasure of the house, great good fortune," or something like that. The "She" here is somehow implied, perhaps by the general context of the hexagram.

Luis:

I believe that it don't speak of women, but it could be.

富fu4: rich / wealthy
家jia1: home / family
大da4: big / great
吉ji2: lucky /

Some alternatives:

• Wealthy home, big luck.
• Wealth [and] home, big luck.

The chinese text not only lacks of «She», it also lacks of possessive particle.
I believe that the alternatives for fu jia are:

• Adjective - Noun
• Noun - Noun

Sears say:

富
Phonetic: 畐 fu2 bi4
Signific: 宀 mian2 building - roof
Etymology: Phonetic Signific, having a home 宀 makes you rich
Sears: Chineseetymology
http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=富&submitButton1=Etymology

A pot with a cover under a roof and a pig under a roof → home infrastructure.
Maybe there is a woman inside the pot! (The place of the woman is inside}
Maybe the pot is a woman (no comments).

See the rich pig:

See the profitable woman:

... both from the same source: http://news.rednet.cn/c/2008/02/01/1433453.htm

Un abrazo,

Charly

 

[charly]

Interesting how the first three lines of 37 discribe a situation where it seems the wife and children need to be disciplined, made to align with the orders of the husband, then line 4 calls the wife "the treasure of the house". I think of the book Life With Father about a Victorian era family where the father is constantly getting things in a muddle, giving totally inappropriate orders and demands and the wife just goes about quietly making everything run right and never lets her husband see what a silly fool he really is.

Rosada:

All this reminds me the story of SunZi (Art of War) about the Strategist, the King and the King's fovorites that were beheaded.

According to the historian Sima Qian, Sun-zi was given an audience in the state of Wu. Having read the thirteen chapters of Sun-zi's Art of War, the king of Wu (r. 514-496 BC) invited him to demonstrate the drilling of troops with the king's concubines. Sun-zi explained the commands for marching, and the women all answered, "Yes, sir;" but when the drum signals were given, the women burst out laughing. Sun-zi realized that if the orders are not clear and the signals not familiar, the general is at fault. He repeated the signals several times, but the women responded by laughing again. Believing that when the signals are clear but not followed, the officers are at fault, Sun-zi ordered the left and right commanders (two of the king's favorite concubines) beheaded. The king sent a messenger to stop the executions, but Sun-zi disregarded the sovereign's command. After the two commanders were beheaded and replaced, the women obeyed the orders with serious precision. Not wanting to watch but impressed with Sun-zi's military ways, the king appointed him commander of his army.
Sanderson Beck
From: http://www.san.beck.org/EC13-Chou.html#8

The king was a coward, the Strategist heartless, the favorites unaware of the situation.

All of them ended badly, the favorites beheaded, the King and the Strategist at the end also died, the State was defeated after few years. Stingy conducts badly ends.

Women remain laughing till to our time.

Yours,

Charly

____________________

 

[rosada]

Hmm..I'd see that story as being more representative of 37.3.

 

[rosada]

The fourth line is usually the position of the faithful steward, the one who performs some service for the public welfare. In the hexagram of The Family this refers to the one who keeps the home running. It used to be job of Home manager was recognized as being one that required skill and understanding. They actually had classes in high school to train for it. That is no longer the case today. Women are expected to have a "real job" outside the home and the true meaning of "treasure of the house" is forgotten.

 

[charly]

Hmm..I'd see that story as being more representative of 37.3.

Rosada:

Of course but the standard interpretation is related with female roles in traditional society:

1st. shut up!
2nd. you're the home's treasure, go to cook the food and clean the dishes.

But it is curious that the woman is absent from the chinese text of lines except 37.3.

Yours,

Charly

 

[maremaria]

1st. shut up!
2nd. you're the home's treasure, go to cook the food and clean the dishes.
But it is curious that the woman is absent from the chinese text of lines except 37.3.
Yours,

Charly

I think its obvious why she left .....

 

[Sparhawk]

LOL!! I believe she got a good hint...

 

[charly]

The fourth line is usually the position of the faithful steward, the one who performs some service for the public welfare. In the hexagram of The Family this refers to the one who keeps the home running. It used to be job of Home manager was recognized as being one that required skill and understanding. They actually had classes in high school to train for it. That is no longer the case today. Women are expected to have a "real job" outside the home and the true meaning of "treasure of the house" is forgotten.

Rosada:

Something about women jobs in ancient china:

《大雅 - Greater odes of the kingdom》
《蕩之什 - Decade Of Dang》
《瞻卬 - Zhan Yang》
3
瞻卬:
哲夫成城、哲婦傾城。
懿厥哲婦、為梟為鴟。
婦有長舌、維厲之階。
亂匪降自天、生自婦人。
匪教匪誨、時維婦寺。​

Zhan Yang:

A wise man builds up the wall [of a city], but a wise woman overthrows it.
Admirable may be the wise woman, but she is [no better than] an owl.
A woman with a long tongue, is [like] a stepping-stone to disorder.
[Disorder] does not come down from heaven; it is produced by the woman.
Those from whom come no lessons, no instruction, are women and eunuchs.

From Book of Odes, Legge translation
http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=13985&if=en&searchu=women+and+eunuchs

Wise women (1) scared the learned men:

• They are so powerful that can overthrow the wall of a city.
• Wise women move admiration, they were like owls (2), they had powerful eyes.
• Not all the women had long tonges, there was submissives and shy.
• If not submissive and shy, they were skilled story-tellers.
• Learned men prefer to ignore women and eunuchs (3)

But some women and some eunuchs influenced very much the government of the state, learned men prefer not to obtain lessons from these cases.

If lessons were not obtained, how to affirm that dissorders were produced by women?


Yours,


Charly



__________________
(1) maybe sorceress?
(2) no bad, remember Mineva, they can see the invisible.
(3) they scared them too much, unlike wise women, eunuchs were intentional product of men .

 

[maremaria]

A clever move.... see line 4 !!!

 

[Sparhawk]

Small wonder 37 ends up upside down in 38... Talk about hexagram sequences...

 

[maremaria]

38.1 ?

she can wait till 44 !!!

 

[charly]

A clever move.... see line 4 !!!

María:
Better see line 5:

37.5:

Nine in the fifth place means:
As a king he approaches his family.
Fear not.
Good fortune.​

A king is the symbol of a fatherly man who is richly endowed in mind.
He does nothing to make himself feared; on the contrary, the whole family can trust him, because love governs their intercourse.
His character of itself exercises the right influence.
Wilhelm/Baynes

I wonder why to advice «fear not», maybe the oracle is thinking that the natural 1st. reaction is to fear.

I go to search the chinese texts, I believe that it doesn't speak of a person that behaves like a king but of king.

Maybe the same king that sacrifices at his temple, the same king that sacrifices at Twin Peaks (Mount Qi) (1), the same king that uses to go ahead and punish ...

(to be continued)

Yours,

Charly

____________________
(1) Twin Peaks = female symbol

Mount Qi ('Twin Peaks') stood near the capital of the original home of the Zhou people in the Wei valley.
Richard Rutt, ZhouYi..., pg.338

 

[charly]

Small wonder 37 ends up upside down in 38... Talk about hexagram sequences...

Luis:

Do you remember this:

Chorus:
Take me home,
oh yes
take me home,
take me home,
sweet chariot
take me home.

Ernest Acher: Did you ever see the blue sky?
Chorus: Yes, yes
Ernest Acher: In the middle of the storm?
Chorus: No, no
Ernest Acher: Did you ever see the ocean?
Chorus: Yes, yes
Ernest Acher: Going back and going forth?
Chorus: No, no
Ernest Acher: Did you ever see the sinner?
Chorus: Yes, yes
Ernest Acher: When you're away from home?
Chorus: No, no
​

From: http://www.lyricsspot.com/les+luthiers-cartas+de+color-lyrics-1455306.html

«Singui ngtumi»!

Charly

 

[maremaria]

María:
Better see line 5:

Yours,

Charly

____________________

exactly !!!!

Maria

 

[rosada]

Thanks for posting 37.5 and keeping us on track, Charly. You are a true "treasure of the house"!

I'll now post it again just to have it in our usual format.

 

[rosada]

0 Nine in the fifth place means:
As a king he approaches his family.
Fear not.
Good fortune.

A king is the symbol of a fatherly man who is richly endowed in mind. He does nothing to make himself feared; on the contrary, the whole family can trust him, because love governs their intercourse. His character of itself exercises the right influence.

They associate with one another in love.

The line is correct, strong, central; hence the image of a king. As a ruler of the hexagram, it influences the other lines. Being central, it does not effect its ends by means of severity.
-Wilhelm

 

[charly]

Thanks for posting 37.5 and keeping us on track, Charly. You are a true "treasure of the house"!

I'll now post it again just to have it in our usual format.

Rosada:

How do you know that I use to clean the dishes?

The format isn't less important than the content, maybe it's more important!

Yours,

Charly

 

[charly]

... As a king he approaches his family.
Fear not. Good fortune...
-Wilhelm

Rosada:

The chinese text:

王wang2: king /
假jia3: fake / false / to borrow / supposed / [maybe anciently «great» or «to go»]
有you3: to have / there is / there are /
家jia1: home / family /
勿wu4: do not /
恤xu4: worry /
吉ji2: lucky /


假jia3 is a conflictive word, maybe W/B read it as «not a true king», «like a king».
Also is used to translate it as «to go».

Some alternatives:

• [The] King supposedly has [a] home.
  Don't worry. [Be] lucky.
  
  
• [The] King goes to get [instead of to have] home.
  Don't worry. [Be] lucky.

This character 假jia3 in the ZhouYi goes always after 王wang2 (king), see: 37.5, H.45, H.55, H.59

Yours,

Charly

 

[Tohpol]

37...Hmm. Well, generally I've had this Hex relating quite a bit to relationships but also to what I see as the inner "I"s or aspects of your personality warring for supremacy when they should be working together.

Line 5 epitomizes the point where your relationship with yourself can reach a plateau of sorts and things begin to work - for while at least. The "I"s are assigned their proper roles or are integrated into the higher vision, often linked to the bigger picture outside oneself. I've had this line a lot and it's seldom related to the physical family although of course it can be. A dominant, positive, "Royal self" - the King / Queen; head of the family takes responsibility instead of all the different roles of the family /court being in disarray. They interchange but do what they do best. Direction and responsibility has to be imposed, lovingly, to honour the relationships within our inner family so that it's full potential can manifest now or later. I guess we are setting an example for ourselves from the knowledge that we have by applying it.

Michael Graeme:

To be chastised or disciplined for our transgressions, or for losing our way, has a less profound effect than if we are granted a wise guide whose actions may be
followed as an example. If we are able to follow such a guide, then we can achieve inner harmony.

For one in a position to act as a guide, this might mean letting others go their own way, even though we fear the likelihood of their going astray. And should they go astray, we should not give up on their potential to find their own path once more.


Another take for the mix.

Topal

 

[dobro p]

Wandering Hare, Wandering Thare, Wandering, Wandering, Everywhare.

 

[rosada]

I love Wilhelm's comment that a wise father does nothing to make himself feared.

How many problems we've all had growing up...
because instead of feeling comfortable going to our parents, we got deeper into trouble -
because we didn't dare face the folks -
because we feared they'd be disappointed!

 

[Tohpol]

Wandering Hare, Wandering Thare, Wandering, Wandering, Everywhare.

Once came across a Hare in a freshly ploughed field. Beautiful thing. Bulging eyes and boney backside and ears like propeller blades. It was standing stock still. So, was I. It was early morning and I was about to catch the bus for school. He knew I'd seen him. He was so close. I could see his little heart pounding in his chest. His nose was twitching and trying to smell me. The wind was the other way however.

Always lots to wander about...

Topal

 

[rosada]

37.6
His work commands respect.
In the end good fortune comes.

 

[charly]

... I could see his little heart pounding in his chest...

Topal:

Beautiful image the yours.

I don't trust in H.37 being about fathers and discipline...

I believe that it is about HOME, say, about the place for love, the «little heart» where you can return like to a sanctuary.

A confortable place where women and children can play their games and where to laugh is allowed. A good place for a hare too.

She was -how to say it?-
all my world then,
when in the home burned
only words of love..

Ella, com us ho podré dir,
era tot el meu món llavors
quan en la llar cremàven
només paraules d'amor...​

J.M.Serrat: Paraules d'amor. 1968
See: http://www.trovadores.net/nc.php?NM=2063​

Home, a place for pronouncing only words of love. Maybe a dream of poets, but I prefer so.

Yours,


Charly

 

[charly]

...
The line is correct, strong, central; hence the image of a king...

Rosada:

Even kings have a home:

The melancholy of the last hours of the year that passes away fits well to this Spanish leaflet which spread in a large number of versions in the age of Renaissance. In the spirit of the best tradition of Cervantes, this little memento develops both a full image and a criticism of the society, while with the example of Christ it also incites to a Stoic endurance of the same society, and finally in the last line it offers the necessary perspective. A perfectly polished little gem, in ten lines the whole universe.

SENTENCES
worthy of knowing.

THE POPE SAYS: …… I am the head of all.
THE KING SAYS: …… I obey the Pope.
THE KNIGHT SAYS: …… I serve these two.
THE MERCHANT SAYS: …… I cheat these three.
THE LAWYER SAYS: …… I confuse these four.
THE PLOUGHMAN SAYS: …… I feed these five.
THE DOCTOR SAYS: …… I kill these six.
THE CONFESSOR SAYS: …… I absolve these seven.
CHRIST SAYS: …… I suffer these eight.
THE DEATH SAYS: …… I take them all away.​

From: http://www.emblematica.com/blog/studiolum.html

Yours,

Charly

 

[charly]

37.6
His work commands respect.
In the end good fortune comes.

Rosada:

Why HIS? Maybe women work is not respectable?

The chinese text only says:

有you3: to have / there is / there are /
孚fu2: trust / [maybe also captive, capture, catch...]
威wei1: power / might / prestige /
如ru2: as (if) / such as / ...-like /

終zhong1: end / finish /
吉ji2: lucky /

The first sentence is conflictive.

A traditional translation could be:

Have a powerful faith [or trust].

A modernist translation could be:

To have captives is like to hurt women, always ends luckily.

Wei-ru is close to power-like or authority-lke → powerful, authoritarian, but the character wei has two components, a WOMAN inside and HURT WHIT A LANCE around.

Maybe it's warning us against authoritarian attitudes.

To vaccinate against this visus see:

A World Without Fathers or Husbands:

Legend has it that there was once a beautiful land in China called Li Chang, where lovers never married. They changed partners when they wanted to. But a cruel Chinese emperor changed all that and forbade these relationships. Arranged marriages became the norm and there were many lovers’ suicides.

In this fascinating documentary filmed in Mosuo Province near the Tibetan border, we learn about a matriarchal society that seems to echo many aspects of the legendary Li Chang. There are no fathers, husbands or marriages in Mosuo society. Uncles take care of their sisters’ children and act as the fathers of these children. Brothers and sisters live together all their lives in their mothers’ homes.

The women do all the work, including physical labor and are the bread-winners in their families. They are expected to establish harmonious households. Women are usually courted by men from miles away, who come for conjugal "visits."

from: http://www.filmakers.com/indivs/world_without_fathers.htm

... (to be continued) ...

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Completing Wilhelm on THE JUDGEMENT

THE FAMILY. The perseverance of the woman furthers.

COMMENTARY ON THE DECISION
THE FAMILY. The correct place of the woman is within; the correct place of the man is without. That man and woman have their proper places is THE GREATEST CONCEPT IN NATURE.
Among the members of the family there are strict rulers; these are the parents. When the father is in truth a father and the son a son, when the elder brother is an elder brother and the younger brother a younger brother, the husband a husband and the wife a wife, then the house is on the right way.
When the house is set in order, the world is established in a firm course.

While the Judgement speaks only of the perseverance of woman, because of the fact that the hexagram consists of the two elder daughters, Sun and li, who are in their proper place - the elder above, the younger below - the commentary is based on the two rulers of the hexagram, the nine in the fifth place and the six in the second, and speaks accordingly of both man and woman, whose proper places are respectively without and within. These positions of man and woman correspond with the relative positions of heaven and earth, hence this is called the greatest concept in nature (literally, heaven and earth).
The proper positions of the individual lines have been discussed above. The action of the family on the world corresponds with the action of fire, which creates the wind.
-Wilhelm

 

[Liselle]

In this post on the 37 unchanging thread, Pocossin linked to the following article, which talks more about keeping pigs inside homes. The article is about doing so in early 19th-century Ireland, but still stresses the economic importance of pigs to families.

http://www.irishamericanmom.com/2012/03/21/the-irish-pig-a-k-a-the-gentleman-who-pays-the-rent/