38.1.4 to 4. Will he decide to stop drinking?

[mlekac]

Person very dear to me has relapsed - He fell in love with wrong person and started drinking again. (She is alcoholic). Recently, he broke with her, and now all of us - his family and friends, would like to help him to stop drinking again, but, knowing him, all our efforts will be in vain if he doesn't make that decision on his own. So, I've asked Oracle - Will X decide to stop drinking, and got 38.1,4, > 4.
Since I'm new to Yi, answer is bit confusing to me. If I understand properly, he is fighting with himself, but, he still doesn't have a strength to do it?
I would be grateful for any further explanation. Thank you!

 

[becalm]

You're right -
Line 1 - he has to work it out for himself
Line 4 - He'll either meet someone who supports him to give it up or supports him to keep drinking.

 

[redoleander]

I think these lines speak to 1) a bit of wisdom for you (to let him find his own way and let go - much easier said than done), that you’ll likely have an opportunity to support him in the future. 2) He’s going to get some kind of help like detox or 12 Step. Both lines made me think of AA, actually, even the reference to “bad” men. Not because people in 12 Step are bad but because they are not there because of their perfections. And the ally could be a sponsor in AA. I read this as hopeful. I think step back, if you can, but support him in doing something like 12 Step if possible. Many times family and friends want to help but ultimately the best thing is to support your friends in connecting with those who can actually more directly help, in the necessary ways that addicts need.

The timing of this I’m not too sure. Not sure if the alienation of the hexagram refers to his breakup or to being alienated from his community or both. Hex 4 could be “let go and let God” which, again, is advice for both of you.

I hope your friend is ok and I’m sorry you’re going through this.

 

[dfreed]

So, I've asked Oracle - Will X decide to stop drinking?

I'm just wondering, are you looking at this as a simply yes/no question and answer, or are you perhaps hoping to know something more, like, what will it take for X to stop drinking? I can see some of that in the answer, but I'm not sure that's what you want to know.

 

[mlekac]

I'm just wondering, are you looking at this as a simply yes/no question and answer, or are you perhaps hoping to know something more, like, what will it take for X to stop drinking? I can see some of that in the answer, but I'm not sure that's what you want to know.

Yes, that's exactly what I would like to know. As I said, it's relapse. Obviously, he had stopped in the past. But, alas, he fell in love with lady who is alcoholic, and worse is that she is denning that. But, fact is, since he started relationship with her, he started again. Now, since he is one who broke that relationship, we are all hopeful and would love to know exactly that - what will it take him to stop? Maybe I should ask Oracle exactly that? What do you think? And thank you for clarifying that to me.

 

[mlekac]

You're right -
Line 1 - he has to work it out for himself
Line 4 - He'll either meet someone who supports him to give it up or supports him to keep drinking.

Thank you. It's relief, to hear this.

 

[mlekac]

I think these lines speak to 1) a bit of wisdom for you (to let him find his own way and let go - much easier said than done), that you’ll likely have an opportunity to support him in the future. 2) He’s going to get some kind of help like detox or 12 Step. Both lines made me think of AA, actually, even the reference to “bad” men. Not because people in 12 Step are bad but because they are not there because of their perfections. And the ally could be a sponsor in AA. I read this as hopeful. I think step back, if you can, but support him in doing something like 12 Step if possible. Many times family and friends want to help but ultimately the best thing is to support your friends in connecting with those who can actually more directly help, in the necessary ways that addicts need.

The timing of this I’m not too sure. Not sure if the alienation of the hexagram refers to his breakup or to being alienated from his community or both. Hex 4 could be “let go and let God” which, again, is advice for both of you.

I hope your friend is ok and I’m sorry you’re going through this.

Actually, I was thinking of talking to him about 12 steps and AA, but not before he shows any intention to really start that. I might be new for this kind of support, but I know that it's rare that someone can stop any addiction by force. It has to be their decision.
Thank you for reminding me of AA.

 

[mlekac]

I'm just wondering, are you looking at this as a simply yes/no question and answer, or are you perhaps hoping to know something more, like, what will it take for X to stop drinking? I can see some of that in the answer, but I'm not sure that's what you want to know.

Obviously, I'm not a patient person. I went and asked Oracle just that - what will it take for X to stop drinking? Answer is 22.1,5,6>39.

Now, I'm not sure do I read it correctly, but it seams to me that answer points that if he understand that he has our support he will do it, but it want be easy?

I would be very grateful for further clarification.

 

[dfreed]

Will X decide to stop drinking, and got 38.1,4, > 4.

First and foremost. I think it's important to remember that the Yijing doesn't fix anything; it can't get your friend to stop drinking - but it can give advice and useful information about the situation.

As to the reading. One name for Hex. 38 is Espy - to catch sight of, to look upon. It reminds me that you and his other friends can help, but in reality you are just onlookers to the main event, which is his own struggle.

​

Line 38.1 is 'Losing horses. Don’t follow their track: they’ll soon come back. Seeing a disfigured man. ​

This reminds me of the expression, that people need to hit 'rock bottom' before they can turn things around. Here your friend is like a loose horse; you might want to find him and lead him back, but he may first need to get to a dark, hard, rock-bottom place ('a disfigured man') before he can then 'come back' from his addiction.

​

Line 38.4 is The Fox espy (sees, and then); meets a footless guy. Crosswise-moving captives.​

Here the images depict, for me, the sense of injury and hopelessness that accompanies both lost love and addiction: to be 'footless' (unable to move forward), to move 'crosswise' - back and forth without direction; to be a 'captive' of your own addition and your own sense of loss and pain.

Looking at the trigrams gives a sense of the path that your friend can take to heal:

The lower trigram of 38 is Lake - and with the 1st moving line, it becomes Water: Unbalanced, Lake can be about addiction as a way of achieving happiness and joy, but it is only temporary - and ultimately can cause more pain. Here it is 'moving to' Water, which is about going deeply into ourselves and our emotions.

The upper trigram is Fire, and with the 4th moving line, it becomes Mountain. In a healthy way, fire is about 'codependence', which is what we all do and need to do: to depend on one another, like a flame and its fuel. But unbalanced Fire can be about an unhealthy co-dependence, which is similar to addiction. Here we cling to others - or to things - instead of just mutually and naturally coexisting with them.

Fire can also be about protection, about our need to feel safe (like a tortoise or crab with it's soft inner self, and two solid lines / shells top and bottom). When it is unbalanced, it can be about overly-protecting ourselves by closing ourselves off from others, the world, and even our own emotions.

Putting this all together: your friend is starting from a place of addiction, clinging, of closing himself off from the world and perhaps his own feelings (unbalanced trigrams Lake and Fire). Underlying all this, is a healthy desire (that we all share) for happiness and joy, but to get there, he must first face - and go deeply into - his pain and loss (Water); he will then have an opportunity (or can decide) to become 'Mountain-like': to stop his addiction, and to also develop a strong sense of self. Mountain also depicts moving from the dark of Winter into Spring and the new year. But it also includes discernment - making decisions about what we want to bring with us into the new year - or our new life.

As his friend, I think it can be important that you know what his journey looks like; that you can accept all the different parts of the path he has to travel: a wild horse that you need to let go of; the injuries and pain he has to face (footless, disfigured man), and to trust in his ability to find his way back home - that 'he'll soon be back'.

I hope that's of some use to you. D

 

[mlekac]

I hope that's of some use to you. D
Best, D

OMG! Thank you so much! Yes, this really explains a lot. And gives me the hope. Thank you once more. And the way you explained it - it gives much more sense to second reading.

 

[dfreed]

this really explains a lot. And gives me the hope

I'm glad that's of some use to you. Some people like to do a second or multiple readings. However, my sense is that often the Yi gives us what we need in one reading - we just need to look and spend enough time with it to figure out what it's saying to us (no always an easy task). Just a different way of working with the Yi.

 

[mlekac]

I'm glad that's of some use to you. Some people like to do a second or multiple readings. However, my sense is that often the Yi gives us what we need in one reading - we just need to look at and spend enough time to figure out what it's saying to us (no always an easy task). Different ways of looking at it.

As I said - I'm new to this, so I appreciate every advise and I've learned so much from your explanation. Not only about my friend and his situation, but, also, one of the ways to read Yi. Thank you for that.

 

[dfreed]

I'm new to this, so I appreciate every advise ....

No worries. You need to do what you need to do. Just be aware that too much of anything can be ... too much. Having a dozen readings you don't understand isn't any better than having one reading you don't understand.

 

[mlekac]

No worries. You need to do what you need to do. Just be aware that too much of anything can be ... too much. Having a dozen readings you don't understand isn't any better than having one reading you don't understand.

So true! Actually it's even worse! Thank you for your help.