38.4,6 to 19

[cal val]

There is a question at the end of this, but the history is necessary, so please bear with me.

The Yi was on a roll again this weekend...and all this week so far. They've had something to say and have been persistent about it. They repeated the same three throws (45.6 > 12, 12.2 > 6 and 12) which incidentally connected to each other, regardless of what I asked... so I knew they weren't answering my questions but trying to make me aware of someting that required my attention. I wracked my brain trying to figure out how those lines apply to me. I finally figured it out today.

I have been thinking about Calumet's posts and her pain and feeling compassion for her because My Great Man has been silent for over a year now. Silence is not an answer and is very painful. Last night I was thinking about the silence she's enduring and the silence I endured, and I started crying. I was wracking my brain trying to understand his motives, and I asked the Yi if he was punishing me. They answered 53.5.

"This is the work of deceitful persons who have wormed their way in."

Very easy to believe. There were/are at least two deceitful people who tried to separate us. There was Helen, whom he respects and trusts because she's Scottish and rich and who told him in her drunkenness one day at lunch to send me back to the US because I wasn't really attracted to him and was just with him to see England. SHE's the one who told me what she'd said... some time after the damage was done... and she asked me to confirm it was the truth... *bangs head on desk* I wouldn't of course. I told her she was wrong... it wasn't the truth. And because there was an ocean between... I wasn't able to strangle her.

And then there's David who isn't even a passing acquaintance with the truth and is jealous of anyone in a happy relationship. I have no idea if there are others or how many others there might be. It doesn't really seem to me to matter any more...

But to know... after all that I went through with the dreams and the self-discoveries... the feelings, all my confessions to him, begging forgiveness, etc... I was being punished for something I DIDN'T even do???? It figures.

Since they'd been so insistent to talk about it, I asked the Yi what could I do about it since my hands are basically tied. They answered 38.4.6 to 19. I don't see that there's anything to do there. But I could be missing something. Does anyone see a plan of actions hidden in the lines? Does anyone have experience with this casting?

Thanks for your help.

Love,

Val

 

[seeker]

Ok, I'm going to take a stab at it. Both Karcher and Dening define line 4 as meeting someone who will help you. Line 6 seems to indicate seeing hostility where there isn't any. 19 is about something significant approaching. I think the key might be in who line 6 is referring to. Depending on how you read it, it could be the person mentioned in line 4, what is approaching with 19 or the 2 people you mentioned that you thought were causing problems. Of course line 6 could also refer to the other person realizing that you are not the enemy. And 19 I could see as maybe talking about your approach to the situation. I don't see much advice in the way of action in this reading, maybe more of giving you a better perspective. Hope that helped.

 

[cal val]

Hi Seeker...

Your understanding of the Yi seems to be growing by leaps and bounds. Your "stab at it" is full of awareness. You've given me another perspective on the reading. Thank you!

Before I expand on my thoughts and yours, however, I have a quick answer to a question you asked in another thread about whether the Yi will answer your question directly or not if you ask it nicely to do so. It's been my experience that the Yi will not answer me again on anything it's given a definitive answer. I personally have to fight a tendency to ignore the original answer if it's painful to accept it and to try to get them to give me an answer with a happy ending. They will not lie to me.

If, however, I ask the same question periodically about a situation that's subject to change, it will answer that question again. One of the obstacles between MGM and myself was that he was taking care of a woman who was/is ill. Because her whole approach toward me was to try to elicit pity and because she'd lived long past the incubation period of her disease, I doubted whether she was really ill. I suspected she was using the disease to hold on to a man she admitted didn't love her by manipulating him through his kind heart and strong sense of honor. I had no doubt he honestly believed she was ill and was telling me the truth as he knew it, but wasn't all that sure it WAS the truth as the universe and she knew it. So... I asked the Yi periodically about her health, and their answer was pretty consistently 16.5... chronically ill but not fatal. I knew then that she was indeed ill.

In the past few months, however, their answer has changed, and I don't know what to make of it. I've received 55 twice. The status of her disease has changed, but I can't make out whether she's healthy now because of the advances over the years in the treatment for the disease or whether the disease in her case has overpowered the treatment. I would suspect and hope it means she's healthy now.

Sometimes my questions are about small, insignificant saplings or dying and useless trees in the forest of my life, and if there's another tree that needs my immediate care and attention for the overall well being of the forest, the Yi will divert my attention from the trees that don't need or can't use my help and will guide me to the tree that DOES need it. For this I love the Yi.

I don't believe the Yi will always tell us the outcome of a change or a decision. And that's where I see flaws in the book. The projected outcome in some of the lines, such as two of the lines I got in this series (45.6 and 38.6) I think go further than the Yi really wants to when it comes to answering questions about "love and romance." If, however, the questions that received these lines were about personal growth, and the answers were about integrating one's personality, then I believe the outcomes predicted in them are logical consequences of the actions recommended.

In some cases, no doubt, they do want us to see the outcome. However, in the case of this reading, I don't believe the outcome is what the Yi is saying here, and I'm pleased you "didn't go there" with your interpretation. I believe it's important for me to stay in the here and now of these lines. My initial gut feeling on the 38.4.6 was that the Yi was answering my question directly.

Since I don't see anyone in my past or present as a pig covered in dirt, I don't believe the line is talking about my feelings now or in the future. I believe it's talking about My Great Man's feelings toward me... when I've asked in the past how he is feeling toward me, I've received these lines. I believe this reading is probably what the silence is about. He's seeing me as a pig covered in dirt because of some deception by someone along the way.

Yes, the light of understanding may eventually go on for him, and yes it's possible we'll be able to form an alliance again, but I'm not going to sit here and let other opportunities for happiness pass me by waiting for that happen... because the possibility also exists that it may never happen... in this lifetime. It is what it is... here and now. And there's nothing I can do about it. I can't reach him. I can't change his mind. I believe I already did all I could when I broke down and cried Tuesday night... just before I consulted the Yi and received the 38.4.6.

However, I found your interpretation an interesting possibility. Though I can't imagine seeing anyone as a pig covered in dirt in the future, I can't predict my future feelings AND there are those who I can't imagine I will ever trust again... now or in the future. So... though my first feeling was that the Yi was describing the situation surrounding the silence, I'm going to keep in mind the possible approach of someone that is initially repugnant... or someone I don't believe I can trust... and if we cross paths, I will keep an open mind.

Thank you so much for taking the time to think and write about this.

Love,

Val

PS I can identify with the "stranger in a strange land" feeling you're experiencing in your new and foreign home. I experienced it the entire three years I was in Virginia. Though I was able to communicate on one level with many of the people there, I was from a completely different culture (Angeleno) and was never able to communicate with anyone there on the deeper level that is necessary to forge a close friendship. I am very content to be back home and reunited with many old friends and meeting many new friends. I hope you soon find your own middle path to the frienships you so miss. *hug*

 

[pam]

Val,

I feel such sympathy with your sadness about this man. I felt similarly heartbroken about a man I loved (and still do sometimes after six years). But since I was the one who was married, I chose to stay with my husband and give up all contact with him. I have a version of the I Ching I haven't seen referred to - translated by John Blofeld - that cleared up a question concerning my husband loving another woman for quite a few years. Line 4 reads:
"After suffering estrangement and loneliness, she met an admirable husband and mutual confidence grew between them - unpleasantness, but no error. Commentary: What is said about mutual confidence and freedom from error indicates the fulfillment of what is willed."

Line 6 reads:
"Wandering estranged and lonely, he saw a boar covered with mud and a wagon loaded with demons. First he stretched his bow, but then put it aside. It is not an obstacle, but a MATTER OF BETROTHAL (emphasis mine) which causes delay or hesitation. If rain is encountered during the conduct of affairs, good fortune will ensue. Commentary: This last sentence implies the dispersal of all doubt."

What happened in that case was that I was feeling estranged and lonely and HIS betrothal to me was causing him to hesitate in getting involved with this other woman. In the end, he stayed with me and is now a much more loving man. So I did the same, when I was tempted to leave. In your case, you say you have received these lines also when you ask about how he is feeling about you. Could the matter of betrothal be this woman who is ill that he remains with? This is the only place I have seen the line interpreted that way, but it was true for my situation.

I think you are right to not stop your life while you wait for what happens with this man. The Yi is giving you the picture of the situation, but as in my situation, my husband had a choice - he could have chosen the other woman. And I had a choice also - I could have chosen the other man.

Somehow I don't think he would be seeing you as a 'pig covered in dirt' unless you actually did something to make him think you didn't love him. This interpretation (Blofeld) of the sixth line makes a bit more sense. However, I don't think 38 is a negative hex in all ways - in every line the emphasis is on overcoming the estrangement and being united again. Not that it is saying this will happen, but it is reading your longing to have that happen...and maybe it is reading his longing for the same thing.

I wish you luck.

Pam

 

[cal val]

Hi Pam...

Great to hear from you though your story was sad. I think I see some parellels here. He may have settled for a life with her when I was making it so difficult for him to make a life with me. I take it from your statement, "Somehow I don't think he would be seeing you as a 'pig covered in dirt' unless you actually did something to make him think you didn't love him., that you haven't read many of posts through my whole self-discovery that went on with the help of the Yi and my dreams. I had a profound fear of marriage that the Yi... the "men in grey" in my dreams helped me to see the root of... through a combination of readings, dreams and words on this very forum that triggered my inner child to spit it all out. What I learned is that my fear started when my brother was shot and brain-injured, my parents blamed each other for not protecting him, fell apart and then divorced. My mother was so distraught and distracted that she was unable to protect me and I was molested. What I witnessed, experienced and perceived as a 10-year old was that marriage meant absence of protection and exposure to danger. Who wouldn't be afraid of that.

At any rate, when he tried to ask me to marry him the first time, I started a fight. That, of course, was my 10-year old self protecting me and herself from danger. When he tried again, I could feel something awry all afternoon and evening long... felt a very heavy and oppressive fear... I just wanted to curl up in a little ball... in fact I did. I had no idea on a conscious level what the fear was about. Had no idea he was planning to ask me again, but I knew on an "inner truth" level, and the little girl inside knew and was frightened out of her mind. I hid away. Later learned the truth, but didn't believe it... didn't know I still had a fear of marriage (a therapist years before pinpointed it immediately upon meeting me and tried to help me). Didn't know I still had a fear of marriage until the Yi helped me to see it last year.

So, yes Pam I actually did several things that would easily cause him to believe I didn't love him... unless he had a PhD in Psychology and understood the dynamics of my behavior.

THAT's why I spent a year sharing with him my discoveries, my feelings... sh*t... I'm crying now and I'm at the office... begging his forgiveness, begging for another chance... to which he remained silent.

I don't know if he still loves me. I know he did last April or May. One day, I felt him trying to contact me all morning long and well into the afternoon. I emailed a couple of friends about it. I thought to myself, "Well I'll know if he really is trying to find me if I get a message asking "Where are you?" from David, the deceitful person who had a crush on me for a very long time, who worked very hard to keep us apart, and whom MGM would ask for information about me rather than contact me directly. So... I opened up my instant messenger program and up popped a message from David... "Where are you?" My heart ached that he wouldn't contact me directly, and I could hardly deal with David... his conversations were always so "Beavis and Butthead," so I closed that door. I answered him with an answer that only MGM would understand... "Cobalt Blue" and then I told David good-bye.

Actually I felt him after that... not that long ago. I was unloading the dishwasher. He was right there with me. I felt comfortable. And then it hit me... he WASN'T there. It was like feelings I'd felt in the past when we WERE close.

Well I have to close this up quickly and get back to work. I have a very big project here that's a team effort. I followed up with the Yi last night on the deception thing.

Because of a very odd answer I'd gotten when I was trying to understand the run of 12s (I've been consulting the Yi for 30 years and it was the first time I'd ever gotten that answer)... I asked the Yi last night if he knows he's being deceived. The answer was 7.3. Oh yeah he knows. A corpse boy and not the corpse is sitting in the wagon.

Then I asked if I'd ever see him again and got 55.2... again... deceit coming between us. And a response very much like 38.6.

One last question completely off the subject. If you'd rather email me the answer than post here, my email address is in my profile. I'd love to know what your ROI is using the YI. Whoever is investing my 401K got me 20% ROI last year... and since it's in the five figures, it was a pretty healthy profit for not lifting a finger. Once I get enough saved I want to start investing myself using the Yi at which point I hope you don't mind my asking you some questions.

Thanks again for your post.

Love,

Val

 

[seeker]

Somewhere on here I read a very wise statement, you can never lose anything that truly belongs to you, even if you throw it away. Some interpretations also have 55.2 saying truthfulness and sincerity will open the way. Maybe I'm just a hopeless romantic and want to see this come out well for you, but I think the readings are telling you how to act for the most positive outcome, and I do think they are indicating that he will come around as long as you remain on the correct path. That doesn't mean the relationship will be successful after all this time, but I do think it is saying the door is not closed yet. BTW, you complemented me for not interpreting the reading in regards to outcome. I should admit, that I did not do that initially because you did not ask an outcome based question. I looked at the answer in terms of the question you asked. Your last question, however, was outcome based, and again, I think what you got was not a yes or no, but a definition of how the situation will progress. There will be deceit that interferes, but I think it is telling you there is the possibility he will see through it. Like the answers I keep receiving, Yi says the way is not closed yet, but will not tell you whether it will eventually bring successs or failure. And maybe that is difficult to answer, even for Yi. Things change from moment to moment, and we are dealing with human behavior. Humans often find a way to muck up even the simplest of things. I do believe, however, that if we follow the advice of Yi correctly, we have the best chance of not doing that. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't be here. I do hope everything works out. Keep us posted.

 

[calumet]

Hey, Val, thanks for the sympathy. I'm beginning to think that certain of us posters here should start our own group for obsessively grieving jilted lovers. Our home page could be www.hetoreourmyheartandstompedhatsuckerflat, what do you think?

I have nothing to add to what's already been posted about your hex and changing lines. I must, however, respectfully disagree with your statement that silence isn't an answer. It pains me greatly to report this truth: NO answer, IS an answer.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to coping (?) with the social and emotional fallout of my once-beloved's flagrant and ludicrous mid-life crisis. (Cheap shot alert! I loved him for his personality and his vitality, and for what I mistook for courage. He doesn't have the money, status, time, or looks to interest girls half his age.)

 

[cal val]

Seeker...

Thank you for a very lovely and caring post. I really enjoyed reading it. You might be right about the outcome. Stranger things have happened.

We shall see what we shall see. I have no idea who's going to walk up beside me cracking a giant whip. It could be someone else from my past. It could be someone entirely new. It could be MGM... but I'm not counting on it.

Because of a sort of realization that I explained to Pam in my post below, I asked a couple more questions about MGM. The situation that he was in before I met him was that he had taken in a woman with HIV several years before because she'd tried to commit suicide and called him for help. He is a good man and cared about her and was willing to sacrifice a few years of his life to take care of her until she died of the disease. He even helped her get her education. But she lived on... well past the life expectancy of HIV victims. By the time I met him, he'd cried woefully to his friends that he was feeling trapped... he wasn't able to pursue a normal sexually active romantic relationship. The way they both described their relationship to me was that she loved him, but he didn't love her in that way. It wasn't difficult to believe... he fell in love with me easily enough, and when I asked him about her health while he was in LA with me, there was anger in his face when he answered, "She's healthy as an ox." It was clear to me he felt trapped, so...

I asked the Yi if he was still waiting for her to die... if that was why he was still there... after all his lamenting for years before. They answered 1.4. He has free will and choice. I took it to mean past tense as much as present or future... that he's still there because he's made that choice... to stay... even knowing she's not going to die now from the disease. That's easy enough to believe as well.

And last night I asked how he feels about staying with her. They answered 52.3. He willingly keeps his sacrum (scrotum) stiff and suffocates his heart rather than leave her. It's probably as much about being afraid to go it alone as it is about hurting her. I wonder if it ever crosses his mind that a woman who really truly selflessly loves him would not ask him to stay in a sexless relationship... would not let him keep his sacrum stiff and suffocate his heart. It's crossed my mind.

So... that said... I really doubt "the man with the giant whip" is going to be MGM. Still I don't know. When I had my realization about the other man in my dreams (again... mentioned in my post to Pam), I asked two questions:

What about a union between the other man and me... Hex 33
What about a union between MGM and me............. Hex 34

And when I tried to argue that reality was most likely the opposite, they insisted I not go there.

All I know is time will tell... and not that much more time. I watch the building go up on the other side of the scaffolding. I see a little more progress every day. There is finally light at the end of the tunnel, and I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt that someone WILL walk beside me cracking a giant whip before the building is finished and the scaffolding comes down. And knowing that it will be a good relationship... a good marriage... in which I'll feel content, I don't mind not knowing who it will be.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Pam...

I might know what the pig covered in dirt is about after all. After years of hardly ever thinking about him... not finding him especially attractive any more... I started having dreams about the man I was in love with long before I met MGM... and it was discomforting. They started when I was having all the "men-in-grey" dreams. He was watching and waiting for me to "finish up." I was inclined to believe that he was a dream stand-in for MGM because many of my "men-in-grey" dreams were about MGM... or that I was dreaming about him as a clue to which direction to go with my project. He's an expert in the field.

I dreamed about him again shortly after I arrived back in LA. He was waiting. And then the night I finally cried about MGM's silence, after I was cried out and relaxing into sleep, I heard his voice in my head. He giggled shyly like he did when we were young and in love and said, "It's me, S____." I was immediately irritated... felt that his voice in my head was ill-timed and intrusive.

I forgot all about it and fell off to sleep... until this weekend. I wondered why he kept "appearing on the scene" when the Yi and my other dreams were focused on MGM through all my self-discoveries. I still have issues with him... and he with me (at least the last time we talked). I realized this weekend that he didn't represent a dream stand-in after all. I wondered if he was representing a distraction... or a choice... or if these dreams (combined with the fact I'm back at the studio where we first met 25 years ago) were little cumulative clues that he's TMWTGW. I'd be very happy to see him again... and if he and I could work through our issues, I suspect he'd be a better match for me in a lot of ways than MGM is.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Calumet...

It was a well educated, highly intelligent, highly paid and very good mental health professional who told me silence is not an answer. And she told me why. I cannot possibly know what MGM is thinking unless I'm him... or unless he tells me... silence says nothing. And it is not appropriate for me to presume that I can know. Nor is it appropriate for him to presume that I can know... the reason for his silence.

The same psychologist also told me that whatever his reasons... they're valid... for him, and not to blame, and whatever my feelings about his silence... they're valid as well. She also taught me that my focus should be on my feelings rather than on judging his behavior. She wasn't talking about MGM, of course. She was talking about the man I just mentioned in my post to Pam, but, of course, it applies to all relationships... work, family or romantic.

Love,

Val

 

[calumet]

Val, your psych whiz and I would agree about whose thoughts and feelings belong to whom and which are valid and who should be concerned about which of whose. However, we'd argue about this: Silence may not be THE answer. But it's answer enough.