38.K'uei / Opposition

[maremaria]

My cow Bella has some experience with this line.

Well, in few months I'll be in Holland. If Bella has some free time I'll like to ask her about that line . Of course, if she has not other plans with Harry !!!

 

[martin]

I was thinking more about this 'narrow street'. Can it in some cases indicate fate or something like that, a predestined course?
Does the 'life path' become narrow with a purpose? (if you had more choice you could easily miss the 'lord')

 

[martin]

Well, in few months I'll be in Holland. If Bella has some free time I'll like to ask her about that line . Of course, if she has not other plans with Harry !!!

Guess what, they are delighted, and they are studying Greek already!
"Moo delta moo kalinigta moo ευχαριστώ moooooooo"

 

[maremaria]

Guess what, they are delighted, and they are studying Greek already!
"Moo delta moo kalinigta moo ευχαριστώ moooooooo"

Awww. Tell them not to worry. English is fine. They speak English don't they.

 

[martin]

Martin:
What happened with Horace?

Horace? Who is Horace?!

 

[martin]

Awww. Tell them not to worry. English is fine. They speak English don't they.

Bella: yesh, a tini lytle bite
Harry: off causse whe doo

 

[Tohpol]

Bella: yesh, a tini lytle bite
Harry: off causse whe doo

Bella has obviously been reading the Cow Te Ching



Topal

 

[martin]

Lol! I will send that to a few female friends.
If you don't hear from me anymore then you know why.

 

[meng]

I associate the master in the alley as an unplanned synchronicity, a non-accidental accident, bumping into my life coach just when I needed him/her most: during a time when I am opposing or being opposed by someone or something.. chuckles.. including myself. It might even be the master I'm opposing. At any rate, there's no blame in it, and two heads are better than one.

 

[maremaria]

Martin, Thanks for the laugh !!!

Charly, I liked the leading lamp and the narrow-path as ones own path.

Martin or Bella???

I was thinking more about this 'narrow street'. Can it in some cases indicate fate or something like that, a predestined course?
Does the 'life path' become narrow with a purpose? (if you had more choice you could easily miss the 'lord')

own path, fate, predestined course. Starts making a sence.

Thanks

 

[maremaria]

I associate the master in the alley as an unplanned synchronicity, a non-accidental accident, bumping into my life coach just when I needed him/her most: during a time when I am opposing or being opposed by someone or something.. chuckles.. including myself. It might even be the master I'm opposing. At any rate, there's no blame in it, and two heads are better than one.

I like that !!! It makes sense. I think had such a moment in my recent past.

But could you explain what do you mean by "It might even be the master I'm opposing' there is something there that might be relevant with a situation between me and a "master".

Maria

 

[meng]

I like that !!! It makes sense. I think had such a moment in my recent past.

But could you explain what do you mean by "It might even be the master I'm opposing' there is something there that might be relevant with a situation between me and a "master".

Maria

I just mean that I may be opposing the very one (inside me or outside) that can help me; and if not him directly then his position on a matter. When my thinkin' is stinkin', it's not the master's fault.

 

[maremaria]

I just mean that I may be opposing the very one (inside me or outside) that can help me; and if not him directly then his position on a matter. When my thinkin' is stinkin', it's not the master's fault.

Thanks

 

[dobro p]

I was thinking more about this 'narrow street'. Can it in some cases indicate fate or something like that, a predestined course?
Does the 'life path' become narrow with a purpose? (if you had more choice you could easily miss the 'lord')

The narrow street is parallel to a train track, with this difference: whereas the train track doesn't deviate left or right from the track (when you dream of being on a train, it's usually because something in your life is 'on track', not deviating from the designated path), the narrow street is that PLUS confined, claustrophobic, and therefore anxious. I remember Jung talking about dream imagery that has this 'narrow street' element - it's an anxious passageway to a new situation. Like being born, I suppose, which some people report as a high-pressure situation. It images a passage you have to go through, with no options to vary your course, with all the pressure and anxiety that carries. Meeting your master in a narrow street means it can't be avoided. Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide. Time to face the higher self.

And why is this in the 'polarity' hexagram? Cuz while you're going through that passage with no choice, another part of you would like more freedom. "I gotta go through this; I wish I was somewhere else."

 

[charly]

...Charly, I liked the leading lamp and the narrow-path as ones own path...

Maria:

Narrow streets are good refuge for oppositors. See two alleys from San Francisco chinatown:

Spofford Alley/New Spanish Alley (新呂宋巷).
This is where Sun Yat Sen had his secret headquarters.

St. Louis Place (圣路易巷: Sing3 Lou6-ji6 Hong6) (1)
is another alley with a history of disreputable businesses.

from: http://www.pandagator.info/blog/?cat=14

Maybe we can translate 巷 as SECRET ACCESS, or the street of the secret accesses. Of course, a way for oppositors, persons that make their own paths, maybe persons that have their own ways for connecting masters, persons that have their own way of seeing things (2) .

Yours,

Charly
_________________

(1) 圣路易, nothing to do with the YI, only chinese transcription for Saint Louis.
(2) eachother has his own compass.

 

[charly]

... Horace? Who is Horace?!

Martin:

When Bella was called Clarabelle Cow, his boyfriend was Horace Horsecollar. I wander what happened to him.

Charly

 

[martin]

Harry hopes it was something bad

 

[charly]

... Anyhow noone did disagree with Ravenstar they simply asked what she meant - and then Charlie makes out Topal is being closed minded which he isn't hes simply asking and so am i, where the connection is. We could have just sat quietly and been baffled but hey what the hells a forum for ? Dare one not ask for fear of admonishment of being narrow minded ?

Trojan:

I missed your post.

I'm affraid that I was misunderstood maybe due to my poor english. I never wanted to say that Topal was closed minded.

I want to say that wanderer people necessarily are cautious when far from home.

Far from my intention to admonish anybody, I hate admonishers. Everybody are allowed to ask. I'm myself all the day asking, many times without response.

My sincere apologies for whoever had felt offended.

Yours,


Charly

 

[charly]

I guess that ravenstar mentioned all this about narcissism, because such a person is SOOOOO in love with himself that lacks the ability to make any healthy contact with others. Everyone , imo, has a Narcissus person which is healthy. But when that trait is in extreme, it becomes a disorder then it’s a problem. Sometimes narcissistic behavior hides insecurities. His/her self worth is threatened from other. Accepting that one has not a valid/correct/ or whatever idea would be devastated. A narcissistic behavior works like a defense mechanism to protect one his/hers own individuality.

Maria:

Sometimes it's easier to diagnosticate insanity (say psychosis, say extreme narcissismous) than to refute opinions. Too much word, too few facts.
Maybe the so called «argumentum ad hominem».

... I don’t think Ravenstar’s comments are irrelevant with 38. After all, for what I can understand, 38 talks about keep our individuality but also be open to acknowledge the difference in others...

Two good advices: 1) keep our individuality and 2) accept other's differences. I like it!.

Yours,

Charly


P.D.:

Who is the ****ing narcissist?
Ch.

 

[Trojina]

Trojan:

I missed your post.

I'm affraid that I was misunderstood maybe due to my poor english. I never wanted to say that Topal was closed minded.

I want to say that wanderer people necessarily are cautious when far from home.

Far from my intention to admonish anybody, I hate admonishers. Everybody are allowed to ask. I'm myself all the day asking, many times without response.

My sincere apologies for whoever had felt offended.

Yours,


Charly

Hey no need to apologise Charly, I realised I probably had misunderstood you. I don't think you have offended anyone

 

[Trojina]

Harry hopes it was something bad

So Harrys the possessive type is he ?

 

[Sparhawk]

Moooving along...

Six in the third place means:

One sees the wagon dragged back,
The oxen halted,
A man's hair and nose cut off.
Not a good beginning, but a good end.

六三 見輿曳。其牛掣。其人天且劓。旡初有終。
liu4 san1 jian4 yu2 yi4 qi2 niu2 che4 qi2 ren2 tian1 qie3 yi4 wu2 chu1 you3 zhong1

​

 

[Sparhawk]

BTW. there is an interesting discussion, here, about 天 vs 夭 in 38.3

 

[charly]

Moooving along...

Six in the third place means:

One sees the wagon dragged back,
The oxen halted,
A man's hair and nose cut off.
Not a good beginning, but a good end.

六三 見輿曳。其牛掣。其人天且劓。旡初有終。
liu4 san1 jian4 yu2 yi4 qi2 niu2 che4 qi2 ren2 tian1 qie3 yi4 wu2 chu1 you3 zhong1

​

Six in the third place means:
One sees the wagon dragged back,
The oxen halted,
A man's hair and nose cut off.
Not a good beginning, but a good end.

Often it seems tot a man as though everything were conspiring against him.
He sees himself checked and hindered in his progress, insulted and
dishonored. However, he must not let himself be misled; despite this
opposition, he must cleave to the man with whom he knows he belongs.
Thus, notwithstanding the bad beginning, the matter will end well.
Wilhelm/Baynes

 

[charly]

...
六三 見輿曳。其牛掣。其人天且劓。旡初有終。
liu4 san1 jian4 yu2 yi4 qi2 niu2 che4 qi2 ren2 tian1 qie3 yi4 wu2 chu1 you3 zhong1

[/INDENT]

Luis:

Who is the main actor in this scene? If the sentence is imperative, maybe the main actor are US, that receive the advise or the order: SEE THE WAGON DRAGED BACK..

Another main actor is the WAGON itself as a symbol of social status, political power, secular wealth, things happened to the wagon, oxen and drivers are secondary.

The scene is a NIGHTMARE, it's more important to see how could we get off that to know how we had got in.

But the WAGON is a carriage / a vehicle / a sedan chair the character depicts a chariot sourronded by fourth hands: a SEDAN CHAIR, a PALANQUIN, what are the oxen doing here?

Maybe the lost of the heavenly mandate for the person that goes on the wagon?

The chinese words with some english equivalences, in capital letters Wilhelm/Baynes options:

見jian4: to see / to meet // ONE SEES
輿yu2: carriage / sedan chair / world // THE WAGON
曳yi4: drag // DRAGGED BACK
其qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it // THE
牛niu2: ox / cow / bull // OXEN
掣che4: pull / obstruct / draw // HALTED
其qi2: his / her / its / theirs / that / such / it // A
人ren2: man / person / people // MAN
天tian1: sky / heaven // HAIR
且qie3: further / moreover // AND
劓yi4: cut off the nose // NOSE CUT OFF

无 wu2 / without / not / no / avoid / NOT
初 chu1 / at first / (at the) beginning / first / junior / basic / / A GOOD BEGINING
有 you3 / to have / there is / there are / to exist / to be // BUT
終 zhong1 / end / finish // A GOOD END


Un abrazo,

Charly

 

[charly]

六三 見輿曳。其牛掣。其人天且劓。旡初有終。
liu4 san1 jian4 yu2 yi4 qi2 niu2 che4 qi2 ren2 tian1 qie3 yi4 wu2 chu1 you3 zhong1
[/INDENT]

Luis:

Maybe with another parsing the oniric subversion from the normal is highlighted:

見輿曳。see the carriage dragged.
其牛掣其人。 Its oxen pulling its man / driver.
天且劓。Heaven, moreover, cutting of his nose.
旡初有終。No begining, have end.

Yours,

Charly

 

[Sparhawk]

Hola Charly,

Who is the main actor in this scene? If the sentence is imperative, maybe the main actor are US, that receive the advise or the order: SEE THE WAGON DRAGED BACK..

Yes, that's what I think. It seems to be related in the first person.

Un abrazo,

 

[Sparhawk]

Luis:

Maybe with another parsing the oniric subversion from the normal is highlighted:

Well, we can play with the characters like a game of Scrabble, and it can be fun as I believe ALL the characters are important and full of meaning, but I don't feel qualified to parse the text in other ways that are not in the received version (Zhouyi zhe zhong 周易折中, 1715). The darn thing is complicated enough as it is...

Ask Dobro...

Un abrazo,

 

[charly]

Well, we can play with the characters like a game of Scrabble... but I don't feel qualified to parse the text in other ways that are not in the received version (Zhouyi zhe zhong 周易折中, 1715). The darn thing is complicated enough as it is...

Ask Dobro...

Un abrazo,

Luis:


The scramble idea is maybe not so bad, but generally I prefer to leave each character in the place where it is.

About the parsing of the text, given that the punctuation marks didn't exist at ancient times I use to allow myself some freedom to slide one dot or two from time to time.

Will you go to call it libertinism?

... there are in pre-Han times no know form of punctuation which unambiguously indicated the end of a sentence. Even more that in the case of Classical Greek sentence boudaries could be left vague...

Joseph Needham: Science and Civilisation in China, p.174

- Que la he matado? That I have killed her?
- Todita! All she!
- Y cómo? And how?
- Recién con la balacera! Just, with the shooting!
- Recién con la balacera? Just with the shooting?
- Por unos tiritos! By some little shots!
- Mira qué floja! See you how she was weak!
​

(whit Babelfish help)

Les Luthiers: Serenata Mariachi
http://blog.netmdp.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=50&Itemid=42

周易折中, 1715? What recent! Nearer to us than to the original text.

Could it be yet more complicated? You mean that Dobro goes to undestand me?

Un abrazo,

Charly

 

[Sparhawk]

About the parsing of the text, given that the punctuation marks didn't exist at ancient times I use to allow myself some freedom to slide one dot or two from time to time.

Will you go to call it libertinism?

周易折中, 1715? What recent! Nearer to us than to the original text.

Could it be yet more complicated? You mean that Dobro goes to undestand me?

Charly,

Let me put it this way: The Kangxi Emperor was a huge fan/student of the Yi. Furthermore, he had an army of experts, versed not only in the Yi but in ALL the Classics, in a time when Classical Chinese was still the written language of the land. (Today, very few native Chinese can even read Classical Chinese). They analyzed the text, up and down, left and right and even diagonally, and decided to place those little funny circles where they are in the text. I am very aware of the fact that ancient Chinese didn't have punctuation. For some strange reason, that seems like an open invitation for the rest of us to play 'place-the-period-dot-on-a-sentence' (ponerle la cola al burro) of the Yi text, however, not being myself versed in Chinese, left alone 'Classical Chinese', if I'm going to err, I rather err on the side of those that, at the time, were the experts of the land. That's why I said I didn't feel qualified to do otherwise or even presume I can do a better job than they did. So, I'll pay attention to the parsing in the received work I mentioned. But, that's me. Other can, and will, play as they wish...


And yes, Dobro is a parsing libertine...

Un abrazo,