38.K'uei / Opposition

[Sparhawk]

Six in the fifth place means:
Remorse disappears.
The companion bites his way through the wrappings.
If one goes to him,
How could it be a mistake?

Coming upon a sincere man, one fails to recognize him at first because of the general estrangement. However, he bites his way through the wrappings that are causing the separation. When such a companion thus reveals himself in his true character, it is one's duty to go to meet him and to work with him.

六五 悔亡。厥宗噬膚。往何咎。
liu4 wu3 hui3 wang2 jue2 zong1 shi4 fu1 wang3 he2 jiu4

 

[charly]

...
...
The Fox espy;
meet a footless guy.
Crosswise-moving captives. DANGEROUS.
NO MISFORTUNE.
Troubles disappear.
[Rutt]

This translation sounds me something bizarre. 1st. of all why not Spying Fox, adjective + noun? From where come the troubles?

... the received text has yu yuan fu 'meet the original husband'...

This sequence is straightforward, I believe it's better that the «footless guy». If there is an Original Husband, then there is a 2nd. or New Husband, of course, the Spying-Fox. Besides Kui sounds pretty like Gui (spirit, daemon) taking Gui-Hu instead of Kui-Gu we have Daemonic-Fox instead of Strange-Orphan, maybe the same guy under two different names.

Daughters denounced arranged marriages, wives escape conjugal duties, concubines won legal satus, and old maids secured masters' permission to marry. In this stories women were freed by having sex with foxes!

Sex with Foxes
Fantasy and Power in Traditional Chinese Stories
by Xiaofei Kang, Assistant Professor of History
from: http://www.smcm.edu/rivergazette/articles/05-5-2-8.pdf

Dangerous indee to meet the Original Husband.

In chinese foxlore, the fox is not always male, female foxes married young boys, bringing wealth and children. In these cases the Original Husband is the Patriarch, the father of the boy. Always the challenged is the Father. If the father is having sex with female foxes nothing is challenged, because polygamy is allowed.

... Yiduo believed yuan 'original' was an error for wu 'cutting off the feet'. This too would imply a punishment...

Maybe the Footless-Guy is the same Lame that appears in another hexagrams. But why Guy instead of Husband? The Footless-Husband, the punished husband or the imperfect husband, the powerless husband goes with the Spying Fox. The Master wounded at the foot could be a Cultural Hero, like Edipo, and yuan has the shape of a master with a twisted leg, but this is another story.

... The text has gu 'orphan', which is taken as a miscopying for hu 'fox'. ...

Maybe the same thing, foxes are orphans, all tricksters are orphans, cultural heroes are orphans, human beings are orphans, all of them shared the same condition, sons of his own actions, daughters of her own actions.

From that point of view foxes and masters are the same, nobody's perfect.

... Jiao 'crosswise'... probably refers to the flight of birds, but may refer to other animals...

Why then Rutt refer it to captives? Maybe they are like animals? ...

... Jiao could also refer to captives, as it does in line 5: it may be a short form for a homonym meaning wooden feters or a cangue.

Maybe to see captives with cuffs at the feet, breaking stones at the side of the road?

But Jiao also means «intercourse» in general. Maybe «jiao fu» means «****ing captives», referring to the fox or to the master.

Spying-Fox meets First-Husband. [For the] ****ing captive [-the fox-, is] dangerous but no blame.

If you are a fox, beware of crossing establishment masters when doing your way.

Un abrazo,

Charly
______________________________
We have Don Juan el Zorro:

 

[charly]

...六五 悔亡。厥宗噬膚。往何咎。
liu4 wu3 hui3 wang2 jue2 zong1 shi4 fu1 wang3 he2 jiu4

38.5: W/B in uppercase

悔hui2: regret / REMORSE
亡wang2: dies / DISAPPEARS
厥jue2: his / its / THE
宗zong1: ancestor // school / sect // COMPANION
噬shi4: BITES / devour // milfoil divination
膚fu1: skin / WRAPPINGS
往wang3: to go - IF ONE GOES
何he2: to carry / what ... ? / HOW COULD IT BE
咎jiu4: blame / A MISTAKE

I wonder whay W/B use:
Companion for 宗zong1 and wrappings for 膚fu1.

I have two hypothesis, one of moral advice, another of hidden warning.

1) Remorse disappears. His ancestor bites [his] skin. To go carries blame.
Remorse always ends diseppearing, but if our own ancestor is biting our skin, if we have a guilty conscience, better we do not insist, going brings blame.

2) Reading ...

• 宗zong1 as sect, secret brotherhood,
• 噬shi4 as mouth + milfoil divination = give oracular advice = to orientate
• 膚fu1 as skin > to protect (like your own skin)

Remorse disappears. The own brotherhood orientates [and] protects [you]. To go [by its way] what a mistake? (1)

It's a warning: Your brotherhood can orientate and protect you (2), but also can divinate (3) any defection and punish it.

Maybe Wilhelm was thinking a this brotherhood but he didn't want to speak plainly about it. You always owe to your brotherhood, to your companions.

Yours,

Charly
_________________
(1) also «to go [out of its way] bringss blame».
(2) skin as a sort of dress, according to the group you belong, a means of recognition.
(3) secret groups are always watching over and punishing.

 

[Sparhawk]

2) Reading ...

• 宗zong1 as sect, secret brotherhood,
• 噬shi4 as mouth + milfoil divination = give oracular advice = to orientate
• 膚fu1 as skin > to protect (like your own skin)

Hmm, interesting take on those characters, specially zong1. I like the implication of those meanings in some readings.

 

[maremaria]

Question (as always )

is 38.4 the time one meets/recognize a like minded other and
38.5 were they bond together ?

Maria

 

[Sparhawk]

Question (as always )

is 38.4 the time one meets/recognize a like minded other and
38.5 were they bond together ?

Maria

I think it is a very good observation. I believe the three lines--3,4,5-- even though in the wrong places according to their position, are moving in tandem and support each other as they move inside of heaven. Rain is mentioned in 38.6 as a conclusion of this movement. This is a reason I liked Charly's idea about "brotherhood."

 

[frank_r]

Question (as always )

is 38.4 the time one meets/recognize a like minded other and
38.5 were they bond together ?

Maria

I think it is a very good observation. I believe the three lines--3,4,5-- even though in the wrong places according to their position, are moving in tandem and support each other as they move inside of heaven. Rain is mentioned in 38.6 as a conclusion of this movement. This is a reason I liked Charly's idea about "brotherhood."

Nigel Richmond was writing with this line: "Understanding the root of the matter, he does not have his reality in opposites. Treating opposite tendencies as having a single cause he does not choose between them. Having this wide view enables him to accomplish".

Beautifull I think, when opposite idea's are melted as one. This is the other way around. From something earthly(the trigram fire what the expression is from heaven with matter,yin, in the middle), dualty is made something heavenly(harmony). Three yang lines, trigram haeven. So the middle line has a connection again with the primair idea of heaven.

In that way I also like brotherhood, idea's are coming together. From fire back to heaven again. To know were real passion is coming from.

 

[Trojina]

Nine at the top means

Isolated through opposition,
One sees one's companion as a pig covered in dirt,
As a wagon full of devils,
First one draws a bow against him,
Then one lays the bow aside.
He is not a robber; he will woo at the right time.
As one goes, rain falls; then good fortune comes.



You think they are out to get you. Drawing this line tells you they are not really and you are a paranoid nut. But do you believe it or is the Yi in cahoots with them too ?

Well okay thats the pedestrian reading, it can't be that simple right ? lets hear the juicy stuff, c'mon

 

[Trojina]

rain is release right ? flowing again ?

 

[hilary]

I think so, yes: vision washed clear, tensions washed away. It also brings fertility, which bodes well for the wooing.

 

[Sparhawk]

上九 睽孤。見豕負塗。載鬼一車。先張之弧。後說之弧。匪寇婚媾。往遇雨則吉。
shang4 jiu3 kui2 gu1 jian4 shi3 fu4 tu2 zai4 gui3 yi1 che1 xian1 zhang1 zhi1 hu2 hou4 shuo1 zhi1 hu2 fei3 kou4 hun1 gou4 wang3 yu4 yu3 ze2 ji2

The rest is up to Charly...

 

[getojack]

Sounds like a shotgun wedding to me... my take on 先張之弧。後說之弧.... first, draw the bow. then, speak with the bow... kind of like shoot first, ask questions later.

 

[charly]

... The rest is up to Charly...

Thanks, Luis:

A long line, let us take a bit at a time. First of all the standardd meanings:


睽kui2: opposite / divergence // cross eyed // strange / OPPOSITION
孤gu1: lone / lonely / orphan // fox (hu) ? / ISOLATED

見jian4: to see / to meet / SEE ONE'S COMPANION !
豕shi3: hog / pig / AS A PIG
負fu4: to bear / to carry on one's back / COVERED WITH
塗tu2: to smear / daub / mud / DIRT

載zai4: filled / full of / FULL
鬼gui3: ghost / demon // people of Gui > enemies / DEVILS
一yi1: one / single / A
車che1: charriot / a vehicle / WAGON

先xian1: early / prior / former / first / FIRST
張zhang1: open up / ONE DRAWS
之zhi1: 's / him / her / it / A
弧hu2: arc / bow // fox (hu) ? BOW AGAINST HIM
後hou4: empress / queen // THEN
說shuo1: persuade / ONE LAYS
之zhi1: 's / him / her / it / THE
弧hu2: arc / bow // fo (hu) ? BOW ASIDE

匪fei3: bandit // non / NOT
寇kou4: bandit / A ROBBER
婚hun1: to marry / marriage / wedding / to take a wife / HE WILL WOO
媾gou4: to marry / to copulate! / AT THE RIGHT TIME !
往wang3: to go (in a direction) / AS ONE GOES
遇yu4: meet with / FALL
雨yu3: rain / RAIN

則ze2: but // standard / norm / rule / to imitate / to follow / THEN
吉ji2: lucky / GOOD FORTUNE COMES.

Trojan: the stuff is juicy indeed. As you say RAIN is RELEASE.

Wilhelm had in mind some clever ideas:

• if you are in the opposition you are almost crazy, you will see hallucinations;
• you may reject evil influences stretching and releasing your bow (if you have it);
• in the ancient custom of the abduction of the bride participants are like bandits, but the goal is honest;
• another old custom is the ordeal (difficult tasks) of the pretendings, remember Ulysses bow.
• and the falling rain is maybe the standard chinese image for the climax.
• and last, how to euphemize the end.

First we must choose ISOLATED THROUGH OPPOSITION, STRANGE ORPHAN, CROSS-EYED FOX...

(to be continued)

Charly

 

[frank_r]

Last line 38, the oppostion is at it's end.
The line on top is already "outside time".
The 6th line who is yang has a connection with the third yin and the 5th yin.
Because of that it is possible that the force of the trigrams fire and lake who are opposite of each other are not that strong that this person is totally alleniated from the rest.
38 is changing in 54 so one can reconcile itself with this bit of alleniation. But one must let his pride go. Than one can see that this bit of alleniation is enevitible and when you see that it is in the time of things it can bring you peace on a deep level ( in the order of the nucleur Hexagrams 54 is following 38)

At the same time Fire is changing in thunder so there will somehow be a fresh start.

Now we can prepare us to the the changing into 39. I wonder what the obstruction will be?

 

[fkegan]

Hex 38 line 6 in Gia-Fu's translation...

Here is Gia-Fu Feng's Taoist translation of this top line in hex 38:

ISOLATED DIVERSION. SEE THE PIG WITH MUDDY BACK. A CARRIAGE FULL OF GHOSTS. FIRST DRAW BOW THEN RELAX IT. HE IS NOT A ROBBER. HE IS A CLOSE RELATIVE. GOING FORWARD MEETS RAIN. THEN LUCK. Abandon doubt and prejudice trust begets trust.

Or for something completely different:
My Flux Tome name for hex 38 is Screens (Screams) Sixth line is the transition to the Next or flower of Screens.
And my corresponding Sabian Symbol Aquarius 6: The stage is lit dimly for an allegorical drama and a solitary performer carries the thread of mystery
Or taking both together:
The process of dramatic presentation requires distance and focus to create depth and perspective. This is the essence of the screen process which first isolates, then separates and ultimately delivers the amazing results for all to see. " The flower of screens is clarity of result.
Both images describe theater dramas and the point is to focus upon the effect of these representations upon the central figure carrying the action."

Frank