...life can be translucent

Menu

40.1.5.6 > 10: Join Martial Arts Club?

herenow

visitor
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
I've been considering joining a martial arts club for 3-4 years, but haven't done so. But lately I've been considering it again, since I can now make the weekly class. My main motivation would be to increase my exercise level and release stress.

So I asked, "Oracle, what are the consequences of me participating in X martial arts club?"

And got 40.1.5.6 > 10

Overall 40 seems to indicate either attending or not attending the club is fine, and that current "tensions" are starting to be released.

But if I do attend the club I need to have an understanding/reason for doing so.

40.1 > Fine to begin at club, just make sure to begin in a "grounded" state being.
40.5 > If I practice diligently, proficiency will come and be noticed.
40.6 > Tension will be released and my aim will be reached.

10 > Need to make sure not to get drawn into the stereotypical masculine aspects of martial arts but maintain a softer more balanced approach.

Any thoughts or input? I'm not feeling super confident in my analysis, and especially hexagram 10...
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
My first thought was the reading described how energy is used proficiently in martial arts. The great power of the tiger (10) is released perfectly in those lines of 40.


To me the reading looks like there is indeed a huge amount of energy to harness and 'ride'. I know with Tai Chi the energy currents picked up and used are quite phenomenal.


I think you will get more out of this than you realize. If it were my reading I would go ahead, it looks like something you really need to do that will bring many benefits in the way you use your energy.


It looks like you have powerful energies in you that it can be difficult to harness or control (10) and the martial arts enable you to utilize those energies in such a way as to bring you release in all sorts of ways, physically, mentally and maybe even areas beyond that looking at line 5.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
Have you practiced any martial arts before this?

I'm not so keen on this reading.
Respectful Release/Liberation?
(as in freeing yourself from this tiger maybe)

Tell me which art it is and I can offer more insight.
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
I don't see 10 as any sort of warning about the stereotypical masculine aspects of marshal arts. I think it is simply describing the powerful energy source you are considering hooking up with.
I think the lines of 40 are encouraging you that the weekly workouts will get your energy flowing:
40.1 Small annoyances (that may have in the past contributed to your tension) will be quickly released.
40.5 Your ability to release more deeply engrained negative patterns will be enhanced.
40.6 The experience will also develop your ability to focus your energy to eliminate potential future problems!

Wow - makes me want to sign up too!
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
Hex 40 Liberation/Forgiveness

line 1 Don't blame anyone.
line 5 is less than ideal conditions: in bondage, but making the best of it.
Line 6 is a problem (most likely a problematic person at the school.) that you'll have to overcome.

Hex 10 Cautious Behaviour
(due to the powerful forces/people involved)

Doesn't look good to me.
I would not join a school that gave me this reading.

I have decades of martial art experience and broad overview knowledge of many schools and their histories/purposes/functionality.
This also includes knowledge of what sort of characters are invloved.
I have met some truly Great human beings and lots of idiots who call themselves martial artists just because they learned how to assault someone. My martial brothers like to jokingly call them Cobra Kai. (after the bad guys in that movie.)

So, which art is it?
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Doesn't look good to me.
I would not join a school that gave me this reading.



How in the name of sanity and holy moly can you come to that conclusion from this most auspicious cast I do not know :confused:

I'm starting to worry about you, have you got a fever, headaches ? Have you been using narcotics ?


The lines don't read as 'don't do this' surely


Line 1 says

'No mistake'

Line 5 says

'A noble one bound, is released.
Good fortune.
There is truth towards small people'


Line 6 says

'A prince uses this to shoot a hawk, on top of the high ramparts.
He gets it. Nothing that does not bear fruit.

(Hilary's translation)



None of these lines presage difficulty. If there were difficulty it would say so surely. You say


line 1 Don't blame anyone.
line 5 is less than ideal conditions: in bondage, but making the best of it.
Line 6 is a problem (most likely a problematic person at the school.) that you'll have to overcome.


Line 6 is a problem overcome not a problem in itself and there is no reason to suppose it would be a person at that school. I mean you seem to be heading to the most negative possible interpretation of a highly auspicious line and a highly auspicious casting

Hex 10 Cautious Behaviour
(due to the powerful forces/people involved)


I think if the advice were 'don't do this it's dangerous' Yi would have quite a different way of saying it. Perhaps an answer suggesting to halt, stop, withdraw or a warning about taking on too much but instead we have the hexagram of deliverance, releasing bound energies (40) that may have been so tightly held (10)



:confused:


Okay this sways your view

I have decades of martial art experience and broad overview knowledge of many schools and their histories/purposes/functionality.
This also includes knowledge of what sort of characters are invloved.
I have met some truly Great human beings and lots of idiots who call themselves martial artists just because they learned how to assault someone. My martial brothers like to jokingly call them Cobra Kai. (after the bad guys in that movie.)


...but even so...40.1.5.6>10 you think means don't go there ????? I don't think the auspices can be over ridden and the auspices are that there is 'no mistake', there is 'good fortune' and that this 'bears fruit'. I don't see how that can possibly be turned into this not looking good to you...at all.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
but even so...40.1.5.6>10 you think means don't go there ?????

Good morning! :D

Well, what can I say?
If it doesn't look good to me,
what else can I say?

Line six is a difficulty to be overcome.
(the raptor doesn't shoot itself)
The last time I had it, it was about the thief and the appearance before the judge.

I am sober.

Please explain how you see either 40 (emancipation) or 10 (careful steps) as auspicious for a long term bonding with a group?

Either hex alone would sway me away.
Together, doubly so.

A few years ago I did readings for two schools. Both were auspicous: 35 un & 11 un. They were both run by real masters.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Please explain how you see either 40 (emancipation) or 10 (careful steps) as auspicious for a long term bonding with a group?

I don't see the question as about long term bonding with a group but joining a club to do martial arts.



I can't really explain more than I already have. That is you cannot possibly take the auspices of those lines and conclude this is something not to do. Sure this takes skill, there's a tiger here but the tiger doesn't always mean other people are dangerous it can mean you are simply dealing with something to be reckoned with and not in a bad way. Going with release I'd have to see it the controlled/careful release of bound up energy that may have hardened into stress. When stress energy is unreleased it may be like hexagram 10, it needs an outlet. Here with those lovely lines in 40 there's more than just a release there's also a kind of transformation in line 5 and the successful removal of an oppressive feature in line 6.




Line six is a difficulty to be overcome.
(the raptor doesn't shoot itself)
The last time I had it, it was about the thief and the appearance before the judge.


It doesn't shoot itself no, but it also certainly doesn't say 'hey don't go forward you won't win' it's saying 'hey if you go for this you will succeed'. To interpret this line as 'don't go for it because it means trouble' is just wrong IMO because that isn't what it says. Also it isn't primarily a warning about upcoming trouble but an omen of success for dealing with it and here I think the trouble would be the querent's own stress issues etc whatever they are. He overcomes something by attending the class.


You are interpreting the whole cast as 'don't do it as it's trouble' and there's no justification for that anywhere that I can see. Any time I've had 40.6 it's been a real victory. You take aim at an opponent of some kind and you win...no way can it be taken as 'don't even try'.


If he was being told to back off because he cannot deal with this don't you think he'd get an answer that said that ?

Well, what can I say?
If it doesn't look good to me,
what else can I say?


Well you have to say it as you see it although it seems to me you have entirely ignored what the lines say. I've already listed the auspices, you can read them, they are there and yet you think it doesn't look good ?

I am sober.


Are you sure ;)


Oh well we will have to agree to differ most strenuously on this casting then.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
Are you sure?
Definitely sure.
Though I am on vacation/holiday this week and there are four bottles of hard apple cider in my fridge, so it may not be true six hours from now. It is the week of my birthday and of my daughter also.

Oh well we will have to agree to differ most strenuously on this casting then.

May I disagree rather most gently and easily instead? :bows:
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Oh okay then as it's your birthday soon :D

Happy Birthday Moss Elk :bows:
 

herenow

visitor
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Moss Elk thanks for your thoughts. It's an Escrima club following the teaching of Rene Latosa, and I've practiced martial arts in the past.

My desire to release stress/energy and also being an acupuncturist makes the energy angle in Trojina and Rosada's answers more in line with where I'm coming from.
 

herenow

visitor
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Trojina and Rosada thanks for your helpful replies. Your insight into the release of energy/stress indicated in the reading feels right. I think I've got a fair bit of it stored up. Would you say that Hexagram 10 is an indicator that the energy involved within myself and as part of the martial art should be approached with respect? ie > not going full bore into the practice, but easing in?

If anyone else has any thoughts / insights let me know :)
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Would you say that Hexagram 10 is an indicator that the energy involved within myself and as part of the martial art should be approached with respect? ie > not going full bore into the practice, but easing in?


I see it as that the martial art itself is a form whereby the tiger, whatever we think of as the tiger here, skilfully/easily finds release. The martial art is the vehicle allowing the release of energies. The martial art is a form whereby the power and energy of the tiger might be released. That's the idea isn't it ?


I've only ever done Tai Chi and witnessed what massive force the practice can channel. The teacher could push over a line of us like dominos pretty much without even touching us. I'd say what I witnessed was 10 like and art of the Tai Chi was the vehicle for it's effective release, something like that.


Remember your own impressions of the cast are very important so if you feel 10 here is asking you to be quite circumspect in how you engage with it all then quite likely that's a thought worth listening to. I myself don't especially see the cast as counselling you to be careful because I think the primary and the lines are where the advice is. Even if you find it a challenge it seems to me there are big pay offs in going ahead.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
Eskrima is a brutally effective but inferior science for several reasons.

It is for standing in one place and killing people with sticks. Granted, it helped the local people overthrow the Spanish soldiers, but as an overall art it is lacking compared to many. The empty handed avoidance techniques in Aikido and Tai Chi are superior to stick and sword based striking arts. There are untrained humans with natural strength that could club a club in half with their fist and crush your clavicle in the process, rendering blocking useless.
Also consider that, once you pull out a weapon, you have escalated the situation, and may be unable to de-escalate it after.

Look at this old pudgy tai chi man avoid strikes from an olympic fencer:

[video=youtube_share;CmS2nSm5n2Q]https://youtu.be/CmS2nSm5n2Q[/video]
He could have counterattacked at any moment and layed the fencer on the floor (if you look closely, you can see at one point the tai chi guy was reflexively about to throw an elbow at the fencer, but he checked himself in a split second), this was only an evasion demonstration.
 
Last edited:

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
I just want to comment that I think it's worthwhile that we are all contributing our impressions of the messages the I Ching gives us. Sometimes there is a feel a sense of competition among us which can be fun but it's important that people feel comfortable sharing their point of view even if it's not the "winning" answer. In this case, while I think my interpretation of 40>10 is appropriate to the question, I think Moss has brought up some important points to be considered. I guess like the five blind men and the elephant, we all get a different impression and it's good to get everyone's input. I think 50.The Caldron represents the highest of human achievement because it symbolizes everyone's experience as being part of the soup.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
...and as I gently continue.

10 is not about your strength and power.
it is about your lack of it when faced with a tiger. It is not 34 or 35 or 1 or the many other ways Yi could refer to personal strength and power or self defense. (26.3 literally)

40 is (partially) about freeing oneself.

I don't mind being wrong,
as I can honestly say I learn from most everyone here. Hopefully I occassionally teach others as well.

ok, back to my birthday leisure :bounce:
 
Last edited:

equinox

visitor
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
721
Reaction score
57
Happy birthday Moss Elk! :pompom:

10 is not about your strength and power.
it is about your lack of it when faced with a tiger.

Why the "lack of it"? I thought Hex 10 is about the potentially dangerous but successful contact with a tiger.
I mean, okay, the tiger is most probably physically stronger, but not necessarily mentally.
 
Last edited:

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
10 is not about your strength and power.

It certainly can be at times. We have inner tigers too, drives, urges, aggressive impulses and so on we can struggle with that are almost too strong for us. If a person is dealing with powerful inner drives that can be the tiger in the reading. All casts can have an inner aspect. Also isn't the tiger some kind of emblem for many martial arts, I seem to recalls posters and so on with tigers advertising martial art.

You based your interpretation mainly on the 10 which would mean every time you see 10 as relating you'd think 'oh no don't do it' ?


it is about your lack of it when faced with a tiger. It is not 34 or 35 or 1 or the many other ways Yi could refer to personal strength and power or self defense. (26.3 literally)

I think you are just focusing on one aspect of 10. As I said there are very many ways for a reading to say 'hey better not do this' and 40 with these these lines just isn't it. You get to your conclusion by ignoring the auspices in the primary hexagram as well as assuming the 10 is all about external danger which it needn't be.

Also why should the nub of it be self defence, people do martial arts for other reasons. I think you are seeing it too literally



40 is (partially) about freeing oneself.

That doesn't explain anything about the fact you ignored the lines, the auspices of the lines, where they cannot really be ignored IMO. 40 release/relief, great auguries to turn those into 'don't do this' doesn't make any sense to me at all.


Anyway we already said we have to agree to disagree so no profit going on with any discussion about it. I'm sure you have better things to do on your birthday.
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
Happy birthday Moss Elk! :pompom:

Why the "lack of it"? I thought Hex 10 is about the potentially dangerous but successful contact with a tiger.
I mean, okay, the tiger is most probably physically stronger, but not necessarily mentally.

Thanks. :bows:
10.3 isn't successful. He gets bitten.

Because the Image says, "The jun zi discriminates the high and low (powerful and weak)"
In order to avoid being eaten.
The Querent is never the tiger in 10,
always the weaker one.
Ok, maybe querent can pretend to be tiger in 10.5


Look at all the single lines that turn into 10: lots of fright and danger references.
6.1
25.2
1.3
61.4
38.5
58.6

When there is a Tiger in the background, it is about the need for caution, because there is a freaking tiger in the background.

Ok, I'm done.
For real this time.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Crossed posts. see last post.



10.3 isn't successful. He gets bitten.


Quite so if 10.3 had been the answer, which it wasn't, then he might have decided to reconsider.

Line 3 is the only line the person in hexagram 10 is bitten.

Because the Image says, "The jun zi discriminates the high and low (powerful and weak)"
In order to avoid being eaten.
The Querent is never the tiger in 10,
always the weaker one.

That's just not true at all. As I said in my last post we can have inner tigers, urges, desires etc.

Also 10 is about how the querent manages/can manage to tread on the tail of the tiger without being eaten. That's what it actually says if you read the Oracle/Judgement.

It isn't saying 'run away there's a tiger' is it. If the advice was 'run away' you might get 33 for example. Hexagram is all about successfully treading the tail of the tiger.


Look at all the single lines that turn into 10: lots of fright and danger references.
6.1
25.2
1.3
61.4
38.5
58.6

That really doesn't add up to hexagram 10 means don't do it, especially with a relating hexagram with a highly auspicious casting.

I mean all you have said is 'I wouldn't do it' and the only reasoning you have for that is you think the querent will always fail to tread the tail of the tiger without getting bitten but that isn't what it says.

When there is a Tiger in the background, it is about the need for caution, because there is a freaking tiger in the background.


Yes, but that really does not add up to the meaning of the answer being 'don't do this'.


When you walk near the tail of the tiger you are treading with something really powerful. That tiger can be all kinds of things such as being afraid what someone might say to you, that can be a tiger...a tiger can also be something of huge value and power that you want to be near. I've seen Yi itself as a tiger.

Hence the energies this person encounters in the martial art may be really powerful energies within him self.

It really need not always be a gang of thugs which seems to be the direction you want to head in
 
Last edited:

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
I remember a reading of mine about someone I was dating for a short time.

40 >6
The message was to free myself,
because she was a combative person,
and actually created conflict whenever possible with people. (that was the mafia lawyers sons wife, unbeknownst to me at the time.)

I see only me recognizing the 'free yourself' part of 40 in this thread.

Trojina!
you made me make a liar of meself!
:bows:
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
I remember a reading of mine about someone I was dating for a short time.

40 >6
The message was to free myself,
because she was a combative person,
and actually created conflict whenever possible with people. (that was the mafia lawyers sons wife, unbeknownst to me at the time.)

I see only me recognizing the 'free yourself' part of 40 in this thread.

Trojina!
you made me make a liar of meself!
:bows:

I see the 'free yourself' aspect because it's always there in 40.6, you can do it...I had it regarding release from debt where I had to have everything lined up in a row, take aim and ….shoot...Yay did it.


The thing is what is he freeing himself from here ? I'm thinking it can't be the martial arts club because he ain't joined it yet and I can't see the club as the enemy to shoot down somehow.


What does it mean 'you made me make a liar of meself' ?


Oh well at least the querent has had a full well rounded discussion of his casting.

I hope you are enjoying your birthday if it is today ? :hug: You don't look a day over 32.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
26,921
Reaction score
4,426
Oh I do that all the time :bows:

Anyway you may be right about the reading. If the querent (sorry can't see name) comes back to say it didn't work out at all then I shall be eggy faced. I'll still think my interpretation was correct but slightly eggy anyway
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
Herenow - you asked if receiving hexagram 10 might indicate you should not go full bore into the practice but ease in. While I do think the Judgement is very optimistic for your ultimate success with this experience ("Treading on the tail of the tiger. It does NOT bite the man. SUCCESS." - Wilhelm), the Image does seem to counsel prudence. Perhaps the other members of the club will be skeptical at first of your sincerity or abilities and it would be good to not claim to be a more adept than you truly are. To put my own spin on Wilhelm's translation:
"Thus Herenow discriminates between black belts and yellow belts, and [by accepting the decision of where she places] thereby fortifies the thinking of the people [so they don't think she's some fool who deserves to get her butt kicked].
 

rosada

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
9,890
Reaction score
3,171
Further thoughts about Hexagram 10..
I see it as describing a situation where one has to deal with powerful forces. I don't see it as saying do or don't do this or do or don't get involved, rather it seems to me to be simply stating what the situation is and then giving advice and even encouragement for how to handle the situation. Interesting that 10 partners with hexagram 9, the lone man (okay, the lone man and his wife) like one man versus Everybody Else, or one man coming up against City Hall. It can be very scary to be just one person taking on The Government but the hexagram encourages that if the small petitioner will present his case with respect and clarity, the Powers That Be will listen and quite possibly the result will be favorable. Perhaps the confusion in determining whether this is a positive or negative omen has to do with the importance of the querent being honest with themselves as to whether their cause is just. Like if you were contesting a speeding ticket and got hexagram 10 I would see it as meaning "If you are in the right, don't be afraid to speak up. On the other hand, if you are just trying to weasel out of a fine the court will smack you."
 

moss elk

visitor
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Messages
3,280
Reaction score
1,049
("Treading on the tail of the tiger. It does NOT bite the man. SUCCESS." - Wilhelm)

Brad (does it miff or amuse him that we just call him Brad?) has it as:

bu4 without (it); (if, that when) (it) does not, fails

Stressing the if or when it does not bite: success.
 

herenow

visitor
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
11
Reaction score
1
Thanks again for the helpful and insightful thoughts from everyone. I'm taking the reading as a sign to move ahead with the class, with an awareness of the energies involved. So I'll be starting this weekend. I'll check back in a few months with an update - or sooner if my experience merits it...
 

EsYoSoy

visitor
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
15
Reaction score
5
Thanks again for the helpful and insightful thoughts from everyone. I'm taking the reading as a sign to move ahead with the class, with an awareness of the energies involved. So I'll be starting this weekend. I'll check back in a few months with an update - or sooner if my experience merits it...
How are you? How did this class finally go?
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top