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43,4 : Translations contradicts

frodo

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I got 43,4 > 5 - when asking what the right attitude should be towards my girl, who recently revealed that she some months ago was concidering a relationship with another man. At that time she didnt give the reason why she withdrew, but some cover-up explanations. Now, when she has laid it all out, I feel some hesitation towards our relationship, as i feel she could have been more honest, as I feel that I have been lied to for 4 month.

Reading Karcher is says: If you haul your goat along, repenting will disappear. When you hear words dont trust them.

Balker and Wilhelm says: If he were led by a sheep, regrets would disappear. He hears the words, but dont trust them.

I.e. the EXACT opposite meaning!
One say that I shold act directly and not trust.
The others say that I should not lead, but be led, and TRUST

This is sometimes frustrating with I Ching
 

bamboo

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imo, the line usually means that no matter advice you are given , you may just stubbornly entrenched in wanting what you want. you may hear the words (of truth/ advice/maybe gf but don't trust. You are resisting the situation, but if you stop resisting, it would be okay
 

elias

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"Here we encounter the dangers of being resolute. When resoluteness goes to the extreme of being hard, or when, in ridding ourselves of alienation, we become too soft, we depart from the path and are no longer able to hear within..... To be led like sheep means that we depend on inner truth. We do not memorize what to say, but allow the right thing to come of itself, at the right time. This is possible only if we maintain inner emptiness: we neither listen to the clamoring of our emotions, nor pretend to know the right answer in advance." (Carol Anthony)
 

yamabushi

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I got 43,4 > 5 - when asking what the right attitude should be towards my girl, who recently revealed that she some months ago was concidering a relationship with another man. At that time she didnt give the reason why she withdrew, but some cover-up explanations. Now, when she has laid it all out, I feel some hesitation towards our relationship, as i feel she could have been more honest, as I feel that I have been lied to for 4 month.

Reading Karcher is says: If you haul your goat along, repenting will disappear. When you hear words dont trust them.

Balker and Wilhelm says: If he were led by a sheep, regrets would disappear. He hears the words, but dont trust them.

I.e. the EXACT opposite meaning!
One say that I shold act directly and not trust.
The others say that I should not lead, but be led, and TRUST

This is sometimes frustrating with I Ching


I suggest that you use Wilhelm in this case.

I m having experience with 43.4>5, hexagram 43 is about removing evil influnces, so your girl is obviously a bad for you. It says to you that it would be best for you to get rid of her, but it is easier to say then do it.
I agree with bamboo that you will not listen any advice that will be given to you. So you will have to wait...

Maybe poccosin have some diffrent advice...
 

icegrapefruit

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My understanding on 43.4, which I got a couple times myself :) , says that we cannot force a solution going ahead like mad in this very situation, but we have to calm down, look inside, see what we did/still do wrong, because at least half of recent misery is caused by our own selves, in a way or another. Hilary writes that one's accepting the full reality of a situation as it is can also make one strong enough to deal with it. (Not trying to take side on the with or without her question.)
 

frodo

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Thanks to you all!

Well, went to her to sort things out, but it became very confusing - and yes, I didnt believe her words, as her explanations kept changing again and again. But at last I let go of wanting her to explain,let go of wanting to get any answers, and it loosened up, so now we are at least good friends.
 

frodo

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BTW, its seems that one cannot get a message sent my mail, that there are answers to ones posts?
At least I dont know how to set it up for that....
 

pocossin

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BTW, its seems that one cannot get a message sent my mail, that there are answers to ones posts?
At least I dont know how to set it up for that....

When you post or start a thread, scroll down the page and you will see Notification Type. Select "instant email notification" and you will be notified by email when someone posts. You need to do this once for each thread.

For a permanent fix, click on your name, and that will take you to your Profile. Click on "edit user profile". I don't have your system and can't say for sure, but I think you will see "Automatic Thread Subscription Mode" somewhere. Select "Instant email notification".
 

pocossin

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What is the right attitude towards my girl?
43.4 > 5

You have been hurt by your girl's conduct. She may be testing the bond between the two of you. By threatening to stray, she seeks a greater commitment from you. So you should think through the relationship and tell her what you want in it. Then the ground rules would be clear. I'd recommend a higher level of mutual honesty, and then give the relationship time to grow (5).

I share your frustration about translation. The part of line 43.4 you are focusing on is just four characters:

牽 羊 悔 亡
led sheep regrets pass

(The character for sheep and goat is the same.)

My idea is that the sheep resists the bond but can't break it.
 
S

sooo

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Stop trying to be what you think the other wants to see.

43 is a hexagram of speaking clearly, but line 4 is also about listening and following (I believe) ones more basic instincts, and not trying to understand everything about it rationally, cuz that can get to be a real pain in the buttocks: a hindrance to forward thinking and movement.

I think there's also a "this too shall pass" element to the time and line.
 
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frodo

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Thanks for your further replies. It is really a confusing line, but it really points to what is in the situation: lead or be led, when words are not trusted.
Have decided to be kind about this, but thats because of compassion, as she suffers when I hesitate to accept her strange explanations. It trust reappears later I must see....

Thanks for the tips about notification! :)
 

bradford

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A rump with no skin
One’s progress is inferior now
To be led (like) a sheep, regrets (would) pass
(But) to hear the words is not comprehension
 

frodo

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One more contradiction in translations!

The fascinating thing about I Ching is that if so often present one with a picture that has very much to do with the question.
The part that is not so fascinating is the ambiguesness of the answers.

Being ambigius myself about going to a meeting, that would be very demanding and embarrasing to me, I asked about this and got:
12, 5 > 35

About line 5 Karcher says: "Resting from the obstruction...Imagine yourself in a peaceful retreat. That is the right place for you. It will correct the whole situation".

Being 50-50 about what was right to do, I decided to follow I Chings advise and cancelled my participation.

Later I looked in Balkins interpretation and it said that I should, "....rise to the challenge... show what you are made of".


(Its obvious that the authors have diffent ideas about what is meant by attaching something to a mulberry tree).
 

gene

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Maybe I am dense here, but I don't see any contradiction at all. The I Ching is written in such a way that there is always multiple interpretations of the lines. That is why so often we need someone else to read for us and not do it ourselves. Our own limitations in perception create subjectivity more than objectivity. The W/B commentary says, "Thus the situation entails an inner conflict. This is due to the obstinacy with which he seeks to enforce his will."

So often the I Ching throws the question back on us. The problem resolves around you, not her. And I am not saying she is or is not an angel. I am saying that ultimately everything boils down to our own inner self. How do we perceive the situation, and ultimately, are we bound and determined to see it that way. What is your will in regard to this matter?

The first question is, "are you being obstinate in some way?" What are your intentions with this woman and are they practical based on the way the relationship has gone. Something has happened that has caused you not to trust her. The first question is "Am I right in not trusting her?" and the second question is , How am I being obstinate?" Anser those two questions and you will have the answer.

If the relationship is causing you pain, (no skin on his thighs) then you will have to answer to yourself. Is it worth it?

Now, the fifth line. The fifth line is not in any way a correspondent of the fourth, they are both yang and therefore do not relate well. The line says, "In dealing with weeds, firm resolution is necessary." You will have to decide what the weeds are. Perhaps they are the relationship itself. Or perhaps it lies in an obstinate position of your own. You will have to decide. There is no escape based on this reading alone, of making a decision based on a clear cut delineation of the situation. You must first discover your own mind.

Gene
 

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