45 unchanging for psychic lines

[foxwriter]

I asked, “What should I do about my reliance on psychic phone lines?”

& got 45 unchanging.

I almost thought the reading would say “Don’t be daft. Stop ringing them.”

but I think it may well be affirming the advice of diviners to get me through this difficult time

(myself and my boyfriend are in the process of separation/reconciliation. It’s uncertain. All my separation/abandonment/grief issues are being brought up. I’m also now in counselling, going to Buddhist meditation & using the I Ching & this site. If it wasn’t for that, and the generally wise advice/counselling of the readers on the particular line I use, saying there’s hope of reconciliation if I’m patient, I think I would have plunged in wildly & chaotically and alienated myself and my boyfriend forever.

However-I have spent a lot of money on the lines in the past few weeks. I can afford it-but wouldn’t want to spend much more now. It has felt like a sort of “Uncertainty Tax” to help give me hope in this time. But I think if I told anyone how much I’d spent, they’d be appalled. I am also seeing friends more and doing creative/work stuff, but am aware of being in a phase of increased anxiety and loneliness. Feels like the Yi is saying-“It’s okay. Whatever gets you through. And you’ve had good advice”.

Does that feel right?

****
What is asked of you?
What are you investing in?

Oracle​

�Gathering, creating success.
The king enters his temple.
Fruitful to see great people, creating success.
Constancy bears fruit.
Using great sacrificial animals: good fortune.
Fruitful to have a direction to go.�

The old character for �Gathering� shows people gathered like grass, or perhaps gathered to bring in the harvest: they have a shared identity, and invest together for a purpose, looking for what will bear fruit. Sometimes this is an external gathering, sometimes an internal one � collecting yourself and integrating your many roles and strengths, getting yourself together. Many people, roles, energies and issues are concentrated in this single focal point.

The king enters his temple to connect his people with the ancestral spirits. This is a time to strengthen shared roots, and understand mundane daily activities as part of a larger story and identity that gives them meaning.

With this connection made, it is time to see great people. Originally this might have meant consulting with diviners, to ensure your offerings were made in harmony with the time and the spirits. Seeing great people (whether in the flesh or with your inner vision) gives you longer- term guidance to align your efforts with your purpose. Then a steady persistence will bear fruit. And you are making great efforts � and an act of faith � investing the best you have in this gathering. You need those good, deep roots, and clear-sighted guidance, and you need to know where you are going with it all.

Image​

�Lake higher than the earth: Gathering.
A noble one sets aside weapons and tools, and warns against the unexpected.�

Sequence​

Gathering follows from Hexagram 44, Coupling:
�They meet one another, then they assemble, and so Gathering follows. Gathering means assembling.�

Pair​

Gathering forms a pair with Hexagram 46, Pushing Upward:
�Gathering means assembling, Pushing Upward means not coming back.�

 

[moss elk]

45 is not only about Gathering other people to oneself. First, the sovereign goes to the ancestral temple to gather strength for himself from his ancestors, he gathers his faculties and tools/weapons.

So, It can also be saying, in a sense:
'Pull yourself together'

 

[foxwriter]

Ha! Yes. That feels right.

reached a rollercoaster peak of anxiety earlier today. Rang the Samaritans, spoke to a lovely woman & cried. Did a meditation. Did my own Tarot reading.
Then my boyfriend rang, I was calm & felt clear we would connect properly when the time is right in a few days and his personal circumstances are easier.

felt a very physical/mental effort in “pulling myself together” earlier.

 

[Trojina]

Try praying also it's free and you can do it anywhere. Also praying is quite a 45ish thing to do, gather yourself together with God or if you don't believe in God whatever you do believe in that is your true core value.

One thing not to believe in is people making profits from capitalising on other's fears and uncertainties. These people have no idea if you and your boyfriend will reunite, they are charlatans.

I think things like psychic lines and Tarot cards are probably pretty bad for you right now.

But apart from that, something I see a lot of here is women seemingly put 'on hold' by their alleged boyfriend whilst he puts them through some kind of test of not being with them whilst not ending the relationship either.

If he can't be with you now then why should you hang around for him.

45 really does mean hold yourself together, gather yourself, focus. That's not distracting yourself or dispersing your fears with cards or phone readers it's more like you getting down to basics about what your needs are because this might be a bit of a crisis/emergency. You're in emotional danger as in this is really affecting you and you have to take care of yourself as you would someone else. I don't like the sound of it. You have to keep yourself whole here.

(myself and my boyfriend are in the process of separation/reconciliation. It’s uncertain. All my separation/abandonment/grief issues are being brought up.

Basically he is making you unhappy. You need to know if he is with you or he isn't. It's not complicated. If he wants to be with you he needs to be with you otherwise he's messing with your head.

If it wasn’t for that, and the generally wise advice/counselling of the readers on the particular line I use, saying there’s hope of reconciliation if I’m patient, I think I would have plunged in wildly & chaotically and alienated myself and my boyfriend forever.

Well they could be right but you can't put any faith in them otherwise you are trying to have a relationship with him via a commercial relationship with these so called 'readers'. What is it you are meant to be being patient about ? What's the delay? Can't he make his mind up? When people make out it's complicated there's generally some bullshit going on somewhere so don't hang on for him just through some phone psychics who know nothing about anything.

 

[foxwriter]

Try praying also it's free and you can do it anywhere. Also praying is quite a 45ish thing to do, gather yourself together with God or if you don't believe in God whatever you do believe in that is your true core value.

One thing not to believe in is people making profits from capitalising on other's fears and uncertainties. These people have no idea if you and your boyfriend will reunite, they are charlatans.

I think things like psychic lines and Tarot cards are probably pretty bad for you right now.

But apart from that, something I see a lot of here is women seemingly put 'on hold' by their alleged boyfriend whilst he puts them through some kind of test of not being with them whilst not ending the relationship either.

If he can't be with you now then why should you hang around for him.

45 really does mean hold yourself together, gather yourself, focus. That's not distracting yourself or dispersing your fears with cards or phone readers it's more like you getting down to basics about what your needs are because this might be a bit of a crisis/emergency. You're in emotional danger as in this is really affecting you and you have to take care of yourself as you would someone else. I don't like the sound of it. You have to keep yourself whole here.




Basically he is making you unhappy. You need to know if he is with you or he isn't. It's not complicated. If he wants to be with you he needs to be with you otherwise he's messing with your head.


Well they could be right but you can't put any faith in them otherwise you are trying to have a relationship with him via a commercial relationship with these so called 'readers'. What is it you are meant to be being patient about ? What's the delay? Can't he make his mind up? When people make out it's complicated there's generally some bullshit going on somewhere so don't hang on for him just through some phone psychics who know nothing about anything.

Yes-hearing you.

and thank you for saying about the emotional danger-that resonates.

the need for patience lies in us both recovering from the emotional shock of a few weeks ago-& some family issues which have arisen for him which mean he’s further overwhelmed. (A death in the family, which means he’s also doing more looking after his children).

we are talking and have been talking. I can’t do the limbo much longer though. I think there is an element of testing, for both of us. And having needed some space but not known how to ask for it. We were on the point of making a deeper commitment to sharing our lives. A liminal time.

I’ve really connected with some of the Tarot readers on the lines. I trust the Tarot. I trust the readers who use it and counsel and are empathic and say they can’t read the future only now.

some of them say they’re empaths which seems to mean they’re very prone to projecting their own stuff. Many of them are wise enough not to do that. I’m fascinated by them and the possibility of the encounter (I used to be a Tarot & palm reader myself and always said I was the most sceptical one because I didn’t really believe in reading anything that wasn’t in the cards or on the hand, but of course would get flashes of other things).

I avoid the ones who say they’re mediums and clairvoyants which I translate in my head as “just making it up”.

I am addicted & vulnerable though, you’re right. Praying is interesting. I keep getting directed to look to something above me & ask for help (guides or Buddha or “angels”). I’m sceptical but can also see the value in submitting to something above/beyond myself at a time like this.

 

[foxwriter]

Typically, the Yi advises when I ask “What should I do about my relationship at this time?”

64.2 to 35


Wilhelm/Baynes: He brakes his wheels. Perseverance brings good fortune.

I thank you Trojina for your down to earthness & no nonsense boundary setting. I am usually an advocate of direct, honest talking things out. But I feel both he and I and our circumstances are indeed requiring brakes at the moment.

But what you said about me being in emotional danger is resonating so much. I’m aware of a transformational element happening-but I hadn’t quite phrased the risks of that to myself.

 

[dfreed]

What should I do about my reliance on psychic phone lines?” & got 45 unchanging.

The words of Hex. 45 are positive. I think this is saying that generally, these calls with these other people (a sort of 'gathering' in one respect) can be positive for you. But you asked specifically about your 'reliance' on these phone lines (calls). So ...

With 45, the lower trigram (3-line figure) is Earth: I think this represents you being accepting and caring; the upper trigram is Lake; I see this as these other people making you feel content, joyful, or okay about your situation - they are helping to relieve your suffering.

However, the text of 45 also depicts someone - in this case a king - doing and taking action: going to the ancestral temple, sacrificing an ox. going on a journey (based on trans. by Field). To me this shows what might be the limits of these 'psychic phone lines' - that at some point you need to take action, become more self-reliant, deal with this situation as if your going on your own "journey".

Bradford Hatcher describes the 'Janus' nature of many hexagrams, Janus being the Roman god with two faces. In this case I see both the positive side of 45, where you are open to the positive things these psychics are telling you; but on the other hand (the other face), you need to be careful you don't become too passive - too open, too willing to go along with what others say, so what they are saying / doing becomes like an addiction for you.

Imagine this as if you are seeking medicine to deal with a dis-'ease' you have: this is fine, but remember, we usually take medicine and get treatment so we get well - and then no longer have to take medicine or seek treatment. Similarly, I think the whole goal of getting advice from psychic phone calls is so you eventually don't need to get advice from psychic phone calls. The goal - hopefully - is you/we don't get addicted to them instead.

Best, D

 

[foxwriter]

The words of Hex. 45 are positive. I think this is saying that generally, these calls with these other people (a sort of 'gathering' in one respect) can be positive for you. But you asked specifically about your 'reliance' on these phone lines (calls). So ...

With 45, the lower trigram (3-line figure) is Earth: I think this represents you being accepting and caring; the upper trigram is Lake; I see this as these other people making you feel content, joyful, or okay about your situation - they are helping to relieve your suffering.

However, the text of 45 also depicts someone - in this case a king - doing and taking action: going to the ancestral temple, sacrificing an ox. going on a journey (based on trans. by Field). To me this shows what might be the limits of these 'psychic phone lines' - that at some point you need to take action, become more self-reliant, deal with this situation as if your going on your own "journey".

Bradford Hatcher describes the 'Janus' nature of many hexagrams, Janus being the Roman god with two faces. In this case I see both the positive side of 45, where you are open to the positive things these psychics are telling you; but on the other hand (the other face), you need to be careful you don't become too passive - too open, too willing to go along with what others say, so what they are saying / doing becomes like an addiction for you.

Imagine this as if you are seeking medicine to deal with a dis-'ease' you have: this is fine, but remember, we usually take medicine and get treatment so we get well - and then no longer have to take medicine or seek treatment. Similarly, I think the whole goal of getting advice from psychic phone calls is so you eventually don't need to get advice from psychic phone calls. The goal - hopefully - is you/we don't get addicted to them instead.

Best, D

Lovely-yes, this makes sense.

& I should say the addiction is occurring during the time I’m in limbo in my relationship & I would see it as temporary.

But I must make use of all those other gathering methods too -they’ll stay with me/become part of me & I would definitely agree with the aim of moving beyond the lines-& going on my own journey.

I actually rang my phone company to see if they could block the lines-but they can’t that particular type. I’ve had two very sympathetic, gathering-type conversations with employees from the phone company (who both suggested I go to a spiritualist church instead. That’s back to “messages from the dead” which would not be my thing. But of course it’s also about overcoming loneliness and uncertainty by feeling a sense of connection, belonging and hope. These are all factors in my creative work which is gradually starting to happen more in person again as we come out of lockdown. Maybe I need to do something like run a weekly writing workshop (I have thought of this) to help structure my week & increase my belonging, connection, hope etc).

 

[dfreed]

Overall, I'm glad my interpretation is of some use for you.

I should say the addiction is occurring during the time I’m in limbo in my relationship & I would see it as temporary.

I totally get this. How many Country Western songs have been about some guy drinking away their sorrows over the gal they lost? The key is how 'temporary' do we make our needs to be comforted, or how long do we continue to opt for 'feeling good' instead of perhaps actually healing ourselves? For example, in a worst-case scenario, sometimes people start our temporarily needing pain meds, but this leads to addition to and abuse of prescription drugs like vicodin, oxycodone, hydrocodone, fentanyl ....

I’ve had two very sympathetic, gathering-type conversations with employees from the phone company (who both suggested I go to a spiritualist church instead.

First, just my own opinion here, (and ignore it if you need to) but I don't think that phone company employees recommending a church for you is appropriate. And you discussing your issues with them? That feels more like a symptom of how much you are hurting - and may have already gone over to the 'other side' (the other face) of Hex. 45, as I discussed above.

Second, if any psychic phone people were calling me uninvited or I felt they were harassing me - and not just 'offering help' - I would no longer have anything - nothing, nada - to do with them.

D

 

[foxwriter]

.



First, just my own opinion here, (and ignore it if you need to) but I don't think that phone company employees recommending a church for you is appropriate. And you discussing your issues with them? That feels more like a symptom of how much you are hurting - and may have already gone over to the 'other side' (the other face) of Hex. 45, as I discussed above.

Second, if any psychic phone people were calling me uninvited or I felt they were harassing me - and not just 'offering help' - I would no longer have anything - nothing, nada - to do with them.

D

Your interpretation was certainly useful for me-thank you.

But just to clarify-the phone company is my mobile phone company I pay my bills to. I needed to explain why my bills were so high -it felt embarrassing to do so, but also quite cathartic to admit it. I was asking for their help to block myself from calling them as much.

 

[foxwriter]

What you said about the journey d, makes me think of how the desperate desire to avoid the uncertainty of the journey is also an attempt to avoid the journey itself (for they are, by nature, potentially uncertain)

 

[Liselle]

45 for this does seem kind of puzzling...

There's it's Image, maybe:
'Lake higher than the earth: Gathering.
A noble one sets aside weapons and tools,
And warns against the unexpected.'

You said you've been able to afford it so far - maybe Yi figures you'll stop before your financial dam breaks? Mingling Yi's metaphors, you can't keep sacrificing your cattle indefinitely. Such an intense gathering isn't meant to go on very long, it can't.

45's complement/opposite is 26 -

45...........26
26 is about an ongoing great enterprise, like a big, established company. So 45 and 26 have "great enterprise" in common, but maybe they differ in longevity. In a company it might be like pulling people away from their normal jobs to work on a special project. You can only do that for a while.

Hilary in her book commentary partly talks about 45's purpose as an act of integration:

collecting yourself and integrating your many roles and strengths, getting yourself together. Many people, roles, energies and issues are concentrated in this single focal point.

Maybe the hotline is part of your integration?

 

[foxwriter]

45 for this does seem kind of puzzling...

There's it's Image, maybe:
'Lake higher than the earth: Gathering.
A noble one sets aside weapons and tools,
And warns against the unexpected.'

You said you've been able to afford it so far - maybe Yi figures you'll stop before your financial dam breaks? Mingling Yi's metaphors, you can't keep sacrificing your cattle indefinitely. Such an intense gathering isn't meant to go on very long, it can't.

45's complement/opposite is 26 -

45...........26
26 is about an ongoing great enterprise, like a big, established company. So 45 and 26 have "great enterprise" in common, but maybe they differ in longevity. In a company it might be like pulling people away from their normal jobs to work on a special project. You can only do that for a while.

Hilary in her book commentary partly talks about 45's purpose as an act of integration:

Maybe the hotline is part of your integration?

That’s interesting Liselle, thank you.

Things ARE beginning to shift positively with my relationship, & though our repair is taking longer than I thought it would (several weeks), I do indeed see this (the line) as part of my temporary “pulling myself together” project.

I can be very much myself with the readers I choose-& have found some who take different approaches which fit how what I think I’m needing at particular points.

I do process emotions by talking them through-& it’s hard to get people in the “real world” who would happily skip across the different types of discourse this takes (from spiritual to mundane to psychological to basic emotional maintenance etc)

Am going to keep thinking on the word “integration”.

 

[kestrelw1ngs]

I do process emotions by talking them through-& it’s hard to get people in the “real world” who would happily skip across the different types of discourse this takes (from spiritual to mundane to psychological to basic emotional maintenance etc)

Read through all of this and found it quite a lovely thread.
It seems quite simple & reassuring to me, that the Yi is not 'punishing' you for reaching out to these diviners, but also 45 could be a message that they don't hold the ultimate truth for you.

You seem quite clear about your own needs and motivations - that you are processing emotions through these diviners much like one would a therapist. But rather than relying on one person's perspective as a trusted advisor, you have been "branching out" and diversifying the perspectives you get.

As someone who also processes this way, I see nothing inherently wrong with it so long as at the end, it comes back to nourishing YOU and clarifying what you do or don't feel, want, etc. For me these forums are similar to seeking out the diviners - looking for divine guidance but not fully trusting oneself yet, it makes sense to ask all around and see what you hear, get to know what others would do.

Ultimately, as a young person who is still feeling out my own relationship to the divine, intuition, etc. I see no harm in consulting many perspectives but the goal is for each of us to find our own way to navigate life.

The Yi's answer to your question made me smile, as I would hearing a wise elder respond to a anguished young seeker - "Don't fret, you are seeking, it is quite a process - but don't forget that at the end of the day, you must learn to gather and trust yourself!"