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49. Ko / Revolution (Molting)

ravenstar

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49.6
Six at the top means:
The superior man changes like a panther.
The inferior man molts in the face.
Starting brings misfortune.
To remain persevering brings good fortune.

After the large and fundamental problems are settled, certain minor reforms, and elaborations of these, are necessary. These detailed reforms may be likened to the equally distinct but relatively small marks of the panther's coat. As a consequence, a change also takes place among the inferior people. In conformity with the new order, they likewise "molt." This molting, it is true, does not go very deep, but that is not to be expected. We must be satisfied with the attainable. If we should go too far and try to achieve too much, it would lead to unrest and misfortune. For the object of great revolution is the attainment of clarified, secure conditions ensuring a general stabilization on the basis of what is possible at the moment.
-Wilhelm

I have a question. Here in Canada, Mr. Harper, leader of the Conservative party was elected by the people to be Prime Minister. However it was a minority government and the other three parties in government created a coalition to disban Harper and create their own government. A parliamentary revolution.

Prime Minister Harper met with the Governor General to 'suspend' government until January. Here's a bit of the story from http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/081204/national/parliament_crisis

Harper convinced Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean to suspend Parliament on Thursday, delaying a non-confidence vote scheduled for Monday that would have brought down his beleaguered minority Conservative government.


The House of Commons has gone dark until Jan. 26, when Harper will return and present a federal budget the next day - followed by a confidence vote.


"Today's decision will give us an opportunity - I'm talking about all the parties - to focus on the economy and work together," the prime minister said outside the front door of Rideau Hall.


The decision also sets up the prospect of a fierce battle with the opposition coalition for public support over the coming weeks.


Is this the energy of 49.6? That Harper and the other parties will have to sit and wait for parliament to resume and in the interim decide each of their fates? Already the people's faces are molting at this astonishing move of the other parties. No one wants to go to the poles again and no one wants to see the Liberals in power.

I am wondering if Harper will ponder this situation using his intuitive powers to help him reach a conclusion. With deeper understanding of all issues involved will he rise and confront the people and the parties up front? Is this a 49.6 issue?

ravenstar
 

dobro p

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Is this a 49.6 issue?

ravenstar

That line could easily fit the situation, I think, depending on whether you were Harper or somebody else in Canada. Actually, either party could fit into that line. Good spot!
 

Trojina

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I don't know I think its a 49.6 issue if you do a cast and get 49.6 about it. I'd rather go from actual experience to line than take a line and fit a situation to it if you see what i mean. Isn't it more enlightening to take the situation and ask the Yi about it than to presume the Yi would describe it as 49.6 ? So in answer to 'is this a 49.6 issue' I'd say we can't be clear about that unless we got 49.6 about it though you could say it looks very much like a 49.6 situation to you
 

charly

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...
In the Can Tong Qi - The secret of everlasting life. Is one of my favourite books. Everything is explained with trigrams and hexagrams. The book is a translation of the ancientChines text about finding immortality...
Hi, Frank:

Thanks very much for the quotes. I saw the chinese text in the page of Fabrizio Pregadio but I wonder if there is an english affordable version .

I don't know if I intrerpret you well, but this is how I read it:

The mythical white tiger is a very important animal in Chinese literature.
Your are speaking of the YIN TIGER, say SHE-TIGER,

... the yin Tiger is born on the position of Kan...
SHE-TIGER is born on KAN (moving waters), she used to take risks, to face danger, she masters danger.

... stands in the west on the place of Metal...
SHE-TIGER stands in the WEST, the golden place, she owns the gold of experience.

... Gold... and water... together make ... the Wu earth...
3) SHE-TIGER belongs to the EARTH, the reign of the GREAT MOTHER.

... transforms in a Black Tiger...
SHE-TIGER transforms in a BLACK TIGER, she masters CHANGE, she can become as FIERCE as a male tiger (if no more).

... Then it is the Dui(lake) tiger...
SHE-TIGER is TUI (the little daughter), permissive and passionate, the WILD.

... is resting in the Pleiades, his number is seven...
SHE-TIGER rests in Pleiades, rests in the reign of HEAVEN among other STARS, resides in the mansion of the HUSBAND, she-tigers are sociable among them.

... a text from a cultural time when the wife moves to husband's home, but she still retains secretly her ancient power, healing power among other. From being a Princess in Earth, she becomes a Star in the house of Heaven, retaining her own light.


The crescent of the moon, the white tiger, the trigram Dui(lake) en the Po soul. They all belong to the west and represent the Other, or the pool of jade".
I don't understand this part, what's the «pool of jade»?

Img249225043.jpg

Best regards,

Charly
 
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dobro p

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I don't know I think its a 49.6 issue if you do a cast and get 49.6 about it. I'd rather go from actual experience to line than take a line and fit a situation to it if you see what i mean. Isn't it more enlightening to take the situation and ask the Yi about it than to presume the Yi would describe it as 49.6 ? So in answer to 'is this a 49.6 issue' I'd say we can't be clear about that unless we got 49.6 about it though you could say it looks very much like a 49.6 situation to you


Ravenstar asked if the the Canadian political situation could be described by the meaning contained in 49.6 and I said I thought it could. This is a valid intellectual exercise - if you think a line has a particular meaning, then seeing that meaning in a particular situation is harmless enough, and possibly even a useful way of increasing your understanding of both the line and the situation. Neither of us pretended it was a consultation. As for your idea that it's more enlightening to ask a question of the Yi: I think it's more enlightening to ask a question of the Yi if it's about something that concerns you personally, especially if your feelings are involved and especially if there's something you can do about it. I really don't put much stock in the consultations that some people do here about big social/political/economic issues.
 

frank_r

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Hello Charly,

i'm glad you liked the quotes, yes it is a wonderfull book. And I read it already twice. But with the discussion about 49 I start to understand it even more..
I liked your interpretations a lot. And I will try to explain my interpretations. But if you or somebody else has other idea's please tell because these text have severall layers. And are quit complicated I think.


Thanks very much for the quotes. I saw the chinese text in the page of Fabrizio Pregadio but I wonder if there is an english affordable version .
I have a Dutch translation of the book that Richard Bertschinger translated from Chinese http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Everla...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228552260&sr=8-1. It is quit expensive though. But if you look further you can maybe find a cheaper one. Because it is realy worth it.

Your are speaking of the YIN TIGER, say SHE-TIGER,

It is standing on the spot of metal. the colour of metal is White. The place of 4 what is a yin spot. So it is yin female yes.(see attached image)

SHE-TIGER is born on KAN (moving waters), she used to take risks, to face danger, she masters danger.
SHE-TIGER stands in the WEST, the golden place, she owns the gold of experience..

Here the book is refering to the Lo Shu, the magic square where everything counts up to 15. There are three kind of earth.All symbolically connected with the number 5.
The Ji Earth of 5 made out of Fire(2) and Wood(3). The Wu earth of 5 made out of Water(1) and Metal(4). And then there is earth itself as 5.

The Ji earth is the connection with the father the Wu Earth is the connection with the Mother. So trigram Heaven is getting the middle line from wood and is becoming trigram Fire. And trigram Earth is getting the middle line from Metal and is becoming Water.
The last 5 is the Earth as being the Children.

And in text is standing" Water has fear of Earth, thats holds it back, absorbs it and what makes it's escape impossible.And fire has fear of Water, because it cools Fire and it makes flaring up impossible.When water isn't escaping and Fire isn't growing, because they both take over the moderate character of Earth.
Then the three charakters Water, Fire and Earth are coming together in one point. That is the way Husband and Wife, Father and Son and Mother and Daughter show there original source where they all come from.

-
TIGER transforms in a BLACK TIGER, she masters CHANGE, she can become as FIERCE as a male tiger (if no more).

Than the White tiger is going to the place of the North the place of the Dark warrior. For me this was a referal to The King Wen and Fu Shi sequence. The place of water in both sequences.

-
SHE-TIGER rests in Pleiades, rests in the reign of HEAVEN among other STARS, resides in the mansion of the HUSBAND, she-tigers are sociable among them.

... a text from a cultural time when the wife moves to husband's home, but she still retains secretly her ancient power, healing power among other. From being a Princess in Earth, she becomes a Star in the house of Heaven, retaining her own light.

Yes I like that, but why 7 stands in the West, is still quit obscure to me.

-
I don't understand this part, what's the «pool of jade»?

What I know from Jade that it is a cooling stone, used for beaty. The cooling aspect of the stone cools fire. And is used for the skin to take the heat away. It has a stong yin quality.

Frank
 
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ravenstar

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Ravenstar asked if the the Canadian political situation could be described by the meaning contained in 49.6 and I said I thought it could. This is a valid intellectual exercise - if you think a line has a particular meaning, then seeing that meaning in a particular situation is harmless enough, and possibly even a useful way of increasing your understanding of both the line and the situation. Neither of us pretended it was a consultation. As for your idea that it's more enlightening to ask a question of the Yi: I think it's more enlightening to ask a question of the Yi if it's about something that concerns you personally, especially if your feelings are involved and especially if there's something you can do about it. I really don't put much stock in the consultations that some people do here about big social/political/economic issues.

Thank you dobro :bows: I appreciate your support and kindness. I have learnt a great deal from your posts and from trojan and the others as well.

When first studying and contemplating this line, I couldn't quite understand its meaning. :confused: My initial plan wasn't to post but to wait and learn from those more well versed with the I Ching. The story of our government's battle appeared on my homepage and triggered the inspiration to pose the question. Your response and depth of awareness has definitely guided me.

ravenstar :blush:
 

ravenstar

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Hello Charly,

i'm glad you liked the qoates, yes it is a wonderfull book. And I read it already twice. But with the discussion about 49 I start to understand it even more..
I liked your interpretations a lot. And I will try to explain my interpretations. But if you or somebody else has other idea's please tell because these text have severall layers. And are quit complicated I think.


I have a Dutch translation of the book that Richard Bertschinger translated from Chinese http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Everla...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228552260&sr=8-1. It is quit expensive though. But if you find further you can maybe find a cheaper one. Because it is realy worth it.



It is standing on the spot of metal. the colour of metal is White. The place of 4 what is a yin spot. So it is yin female yes.(see attached image)




Here the book is refering to the Lo Shu, the magic square where everything counts up to 15. There are three kind of earth.All symbolically connected with the number 5.
The Ji Earth of 5 made out of Fire(2) and Wood(3). The Wu earth of 5 made out of Water(1) and Metal(4). And then there is earth itself as 5.

The Ji earth is the connection with the father the Wu Earth is the connection with the Mother. So trigram Heaven is getting the middle line from wood and is becoming trigram Fire. And trigram Earth is getting the middle line from Metal and is becoming Water.
The last 5 is the Earth as being the Children.

And in text is standing" Water has fear of Earth, thats holds it back, absorbs it and what makes it's escape impossible.And fire has fear of Water, because it cools Fire and it makes flaring up impossible.When water isn't escaping and Fire isn't growing, because they both take over the moderate character of Earth.
Then the three charakter Water, Fire and Earth are coming together in one point. That is the way Husband and wife, Father and Son and Mother and Daughter show there original source where they all come from.

-

Than the White tiger is going to the place of the North the place of the Dark warrior. For me this was a referal to The King Wen and Fu Shi sequence. The place of water in both sequences.

-

Yes I like that, but why 7 stands in the West, is still quit obscure to me.

-

What I know from Jade that it is a cooling stone, used for beaty. The cooling aspect of the stone cools fire. And is used for the skin to take the heat away. It has a stong yin quality.

Frank

Wow! This is fascinating Frank and Charly!

I still am learning much about the mythology and Chinese culture....thought I'd share what I know of the North and West as understood through the Shaman. Through the universal waves there does seem to be a connection.

The Shamans beleive the North is the place of work, place of the give-away, of sharing what one has learned, it is a place of winter storms and the ability to survive them....the North also hears our prayers.

The color is White, the home of the Buffalo who gave each part of its body to be used by the Indians, it is home of the bighorn sheep, the king of the desert who can travel miles without water. It is the place of strong winds, steep mountains, of challenges, wisdom and intellect powers that come in to guide and be with us.

The West in Shamanism is the home of intuition, introspection of looking within the darkness, a place of death and rebirth, transformation, and place where the Shamans give thanks for the power of 'woman' inside them.

It is the place of the bear who hibernates in winter, the snake who sheds its skin and becomes dormant in winter, the unseen wolf, the place of magic as symbolized by the graceful deer and bucks. It's color is Black a color that guides us allows us to look within and find the richness inside.

As far as the Number 7, in numerology it represents the quest for wisdom and truth. One with this lifepath number often astounds others with their unusual perspectives and insights. 7s have been known to constantly go within to find answers to their continual questioning........ 7's are always looking for the truth that could possibly bring the changes they have been visualizing. Perhaps this may be why 7 stands in the West?

ravenstar
 

rosada

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I think it is interesting that we are here at 49.6 just as the planet Mercury, the planet known for ruling details, is squaring Saturn, the planet ruling limitations.
 

charly

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49.6
Six at the top means:
The superior man changes like a panther.
The inferior man molts in the face.
Starting brings misfortune.
To remain persevering brings good fortune.
...

Ros:

chinese characters, pinyin, usual meanings, W/B options:


jun1: lord / ruler / noble / SUPERIOR
zi3: child / son / seed / MAN
bao4 / leopard / panther / [LIKE A] PANTHER
bian4 / to change / to become // rebellion / CHANGES

xiao3 / small / few / INFERIOR
ren2 / man / person / people / MAN
ge2 / leather // remove / to strip / MOLTS
mian4: surface / aspect / face / [IN THE] FACE

zheng1: attack / trip / expedition / STARTING
xiong1: fierce / ominous / [BRINGS] MISFORTUNE

ju1: reside / REMAIN
zhen1: divination / omen // perseverance / PERSEVERING
ji2 / lucky / [BRINGS ] GOOD FORTUNE


I believe that the JUNZI (the Noble-Young) doesn't change like a panther, he becomes a panther, a fierce, dangerous animal. Remember the White Russian officials. In the rising of Han Dynasty nobles were more fierce than the commoner Liu Bang, who becomes the first ruler of a new dynasty.

How do not associate 49.6 with gattopardism ? (1)

But what happened to the face of the Little-People? Does Litle-People have the mark of the REVOLT in his face? Is Little-People the true revolutionary? Maybe he strips his face? He unmasks himself passing from humbleness to sincere violent action ? (2)

Maybe althought to attack could be unlucky, no warranty of success, there is always a resident lucky omen the inner luck of being well behaving. The moral nature of the action beyond the contingency of results.

Temporary translation:


NOBLE YOUNG PANTHER BECOME
sons of rulers become fierce animals (panthers) or false revolutionaries (leopards, gattopardists)

LITLE PEOPLE UNMASKS [HIS] FACE
or maybe has the mark of revolt in his face..

TO ATTACK OMINOUS
maybe there is the feeling of unfortune


INNER LUCKY OMEN
for the conduct is lucky by its own nature



Perhaps leopards and panthers have another point o view about this line, perhaps a better one.

Yours,

Charly


___________________________
(1) gattopardismo:
• Disponibilità a cambiamenti di facciata, per conservare opportunisticamente intatto il privilegio
from: http://dizionari.corriere.it/dizionario_italiano/G/gattopardismo.shtml

(2) Something to do with Malcolm Little? Malcolm X and the Black Panthers?
 

rodaki

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hi Charly,

synchronicity strikes . . I've been reading today:

"The content of revelation is not a truth that can be expressed in the form of linguistic propositions about a being (even a supreme being) but is, instead, a truth that concerns language itself, the very fact that language (and there fore knowledge) exists

( . . .) The meaning of revelation is that humans can reveal Being through language but cannot reveal language itself"


there are thoughts and comments on their way for this but I have to go back to work now . . the least i can say, I've found your post very thought-provoking . .

rodaki
 

rodaki

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back on again . .
sorry for this taking me so long but past days have been crazy hectic . .

I quote:
I believe that the JUNZI (the Noble-Young) doesn't change like a panther, he becomes a panther, a fierce, dangerous animal.
How do not associate 49.6 with gattopardism ? (1)

But what happened to the face of the Little-People? Does Litle-People have the mark of the REVOLT in his face? Is Little-People the true revolutionary? Maybe he strips his face? He unmasks himself passing from humbleness to sincere violent action ? (2)

Maybe althought to attack could be unlucky, no warranty of success, there is always a resident lucky omen the inner luck of being well behaving. The moral nature of the action beyond the contingency of results.

Temporary translation:


NOBLE YOUNG PANTHER BECOME
sons of rulers become fierce animals (panthers) or false revolutionaries (leopards, gattopardists)

LITLE PEOPLE UNMASKS [HIS] FACE
or maybe has the mark of revolt in his face..

TO ATTACK OMINOUS
maybe there is the feeling of unfortune


INNER LUCKY OMEN
for the conduct is lucky by its own nature

but who is the superior/noble young and who are the 'little people'?
I've often read here that the 6th line is the exit line of the hexagram, is it the case here in 49 that in this line the revolution is accomplished and the revolutionaries take off their guerila masks and take on appropriate offices? Are the little people the men who fought for the change of status quo or are they the officials that now leave behind their privileges? Could the two positions be similar?
And what would those personages translate to if the revolution is taking place inside one?

In revolutionary moments we become witnesses and advocates of a force greater than our mere self. For me this has been a force that I both have and have not access to. If I commit the fault of thinking this is myself that is powerful I am walking towards misfortune, because in fact I have only been the means for force to show itself and not force per se. After the revolution the soldiers that obeyed the new force take off their masks and shields and go back into being the ordinary men they were before -back to their lives as they were. It is not their expressions that evoke power, even if it was their expression that carried it forth in times of revolution.

Language is one such force whose subjects we are. Sometimes we are taken over by language, we become the means thru which language will show its ruling order. In such moments we do not write language, it is language that is revealed thru us. Trying to willfully take on its truth is beyond our mere selves and will lead to misfortune. We have to go back to our everyday life -do the dishes, take the garbage out, boil the water.
Thus the quoted text (by Giorgio Agamben's "The Idea of Language")

"The content of revelation is not a truth that can be expressed in the form of lin-
guistic propositions about a being (even about a supreme being) but is, instead,
a truth that concerns language itself, the very fact that language exists"

on the completion of revolution what is revealed is not a truth that can be expressed in the form/appearance of a being (even a supreme being), but is instead a truth that concerns force itself, the very fact that a certain force exists
on the completion of revolution what is revealed is not about those who carried the marks of power but about the very existence of a certain power

ok, this is clumsily said but I hope it shows my point . . not a different translation but a new understanding sparkled by your post, Charly . .

would love to hear your opinions on it . .

:bows:
rodaki
 
M

meng

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but who is the superior/noble young and who are the 'little people'?

Little people are those who tend to little things. It's like LiSe's 48.2 "shooting bass at the well people", or peeking out of the 20.2 doorway people. Little people are the corpse wagon driver in 7.5, and they are hex 9 people. Little people doesn't mean bad or wrong people, and they sometimes are the most essential people. The question is: who or what leads and unites them? The idea is: for this, a noble has been born and schooled.

I regard this primarily as an interior organization, since that is the landscape individuals actually have some control over.
 

Sparhawk

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BTW, little people can also pull a plane... :D

little-people-pulling-plane.jpg
 

charly

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... would love to hear your opinions on it . .
Dora:

I have read your posts, I will answer as soon as possible.

Meanwhile I believe that when the YI speaks of a Noble-Young, a Little-People, etc. always is speaking of US. The YI may speak of another persons of course, but the first rule is to see if it speaks of US.

Say: Who is that ... ? WE. To whom is saying ... ? To US.

... never send to know for whom the bell tolls...​
John Donne
See: http://www.poetry-online.org/donne_for_whom_the_bell_tolls.htm

Best regards,

Charly
 

rodaki

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BTW, little people can also pull a plane... :D

little-people-pulling-plane.jpg

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
. . but oh so true! they can pull off great things these little ones!

Meng, I am taking steps I think . . baby steps at that but they still make me happy . .
you write:
The question is: who or what leads and unites them? The idea is: for this, a noble has been born and schooled.

and I can't help but wonder how far can we separate the leader and the follower in this inner landscape (the internal organization you spoke about) Where does my small, limited self end and my noble self begins? And yes, for me in some ways this is also a question of right and wrong, or rather not these words, I am very suspicious of them, let's say, of well-timed and ill-timed being . . it's always been so hard to distinguish the threshold between the two (I guess it is a matter of training among other things)
It's probably because of that that I end up seeing nobility as a state of grace, a potential of which I can only be the bearer, not the owner -it is me but yet again it isn't. If the noble one say they are noble, don't they loose their grace? if the little ones recognize the time to take off their mark of power and go back to what they were before, don't they achieve some nobility?

Excuse me, I think I'm rambling . . perhaps I'm twisting things out of their natural state
so I'll just go back to your question: Who or what leads and unites them?
:bows:


(hmm . . if we believe in Luis' photo, then it must be 'the way to fly' that ties them together:rolleyes:)

Charly, a really nice text what you posted . . knew the phrase but not where it came from . .
I'll be glad to read your response!
 
M

meng

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:
. . but oh so true! they can pull off great things these little ones!

Meng, I am taking steps I think . . baby steps at that but they still make me happy . .
you write:


and I can't help but wonder how far can we separate the leader and the follower in this inner landscape (the internal organization you spoke about) Where does my small, limited self end and my noble self begins? And yes, for me in some ways this is also a question of right and wrong, or rather not these words, I am very suspicious of them, let's say, of well-timed and ill-timed being . . it's always been so hard to distinguish the threshold between the two (I guess it is a matter of training among other things)
It's probably because of that that I end up seeing nobility as a state of grace, a potential of which I can only be the bearer, not the owner -it is me but yet again it isn't. If the noble one say they are noble, don't they loose their grace? if the little ones recognize the time to take off their mark of power and go back to what they were before, don't they achieve some nobility?

Excuse me, I think I'm rambling . . perhaps I'm twisting things out of their natural state
so I'll just go back to your question: Who or what leads and unites them?
:bows:


(hmm . . if we believe in Luis' photo, then it must be 'the way to fly' that ties them together:rolleyes:)

Charly, a really nice text what you posted . . knew the phrase but not where it came from . .
I'll be glad to read your response!

I think finding who or what is best suited to lead is a matter of paying attention to whom or what you've listened to in the past, and to what result.

For me, there's been a constant throughout my life, and looking back at it I can get a better idea of who has called the best shots, who has had the best timing. Perhaps just as good is determining who is not worthy to follow or trust, saying: I am not emotions, I am not my thoughts, I am not my ego (the who thinks he's me, lol). What's left after all that stripping is the one who is reliable and steady.
 

rodaki

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I am not emotions :)eek:) I am not my thoughts :)rant:) I am not my ego :)o)

when I first read that I was ready to give full rein to my existential questions (Beckett- wise only a lot worse since I'm not Beckett! lol)


I'm not emotions, I'm not my thoughts I'm not my ego
I' m not emotions, I'm not my thoughts I'm not my ego -I don't know which of the two first makes me rebel most inside but . .
I'm not emotions, I'm not my thoughts I'm not my ego -I think it's the second one that needs the most stripping
I'm not emotions, I'm not my thoughts :)eek:) I'm not my ego -ok at some point emoticons will stop popping out . .
I'm not emotions I'm not my thoughts I'm not my ego
Not emotions, not thoughts not ego . . :eek:
I'll be working on that . .

:bows:
rodaki
 

charly

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... I hope it shows my point . . not a different translation but a new understanding ...

Hi, Dora:

Glad that you can trace new understandings from this humble temporary translation. I agree completely with the scope of your post. I believe that the translation is a sort of puzzle that accepts more than one solution but doesn't accept excessive interpolations. sometimes is preferable that the sense remains obscure.

But the meaning exceeds largely the text itself and all the translations that we can made. Different meanings use to be true at the same time.

... but who is the superior / noble young and who are the 'little people'?

All is uncertain and relative, even more, all change. No matters how noble and superior we can be, always, always, always there is at least another that is even more noble, more superior than us. And vice versa, no matters how little and humble we can be, always there is somebody even more litlle and humble.

Then the Noble Youngs are WE and also the Little People.

Te text don't say nothing about it, but when you make a concrete question and receive 49.6, you have the last word, you choose.

I've often read here that the 6th line is the exit line of the hexagram, is it the case here in 49 that in this line the revolution is accomplished and the revolutionaries take off their guerila masks and take on appropriate offices? Are the little people the men who fought for the change of status quo or are they the officials that now leave behind their privileges? Could the two positions be similar?

In revolutions, as in all war, the most important is to have good luck. Sometimes better than to have privileges is not having it at all, but not always. Officials use to have privileges, but sometimes they get the worse part.

And what would those personages translate to if the revolution is taking place inside one?

There is always conflict inside ourselves, inner revolution is indeed possible. Inside us maybe JunZi are ideals and thinkings, Little People feelings or drives. Ideas can be clear or not, true or not, a clear idea can be wrong (1).

Feelings can be unclear, confuse, changing or unstable, but always are true.

In revolutionary moments we become witnesses and advocates of a force greater than our mere self. ... .

Quite right, force exceeds us. Did you already read «the Poem of Force» by Simone Weil?

Language is one such force whose subjects we are. Sometimes we are taken over by language, we become the means thru which language will show its ruling order. In such moments we do not write language, it is language that is revealed thru us.

I believe that sometimes languaje speaks by us, but sometimes our inner demon is speaking and we don't know from whom the words came.

Trying to willfully take on its truth is beyond our mere selves and will lead to misfortune. We have to go back to our everyday life -do the dishes, take the garbage out, boil the water...

Every day life is a sort of meditation although not always recognized.


About the quote on «for whom the bell tolls» maybe is familiar to you because the novel by Ernst Hemighway that ends quoting John Donne.


Thanks very much for your attention.

Best regards,

Charly
____________________________
(1) «... en mi soledad he visto cosas muy claras que no son verdad...» Antonio Machado.
 
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rodaki

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hi Charly,

thank you so much for taking the time to go through my post so thoroughly!
I've found a lot of inspiring ideas in your reply and of course new questions have sprung but please allow me some time to set my thoughts straight before getting back
. . thinking about it do you think perhaps it would be better to start a new thread so as not to drag this thread while hex.50 is being discussed? or is this the way it should be, continuing the Transformation while we're in the Ding?

:bows:
 

charly

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hi Charly,

thank you so much for taking the time to go through my post so thoroughly!
I've found a lot of inspiring ideas in your reply and of course new questions have sprung but please allow me some time to set my thoughts straight before getting back
. . thinking about it do you think perhaps it would be better to start a new thread so as not to drag this thread while hex.50 is being discussed? or is this the way it should be, continuing the Transformation while we're in the Ding?

:bows:
Hi Dora:

I wait the new questions you have, I believe that if related with what happened to Little People maybe better at H.49.

Yours,

Charly
 

rodaki

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Hi Charly,
excuse me if I kept you waiting . . a bit too much of everything here, the ramifications of 34, one of which looks like it's 34.5 . . hmm, and in fact it is about the little people and their interchanging with the noble one, hard to tell when is what . .
I have been having a bunch of oh no moments and I'll probably have to go back and correct assumptions on previous posts . .

Anyway, back to 49 . .


All is uncertain and relative, even more, all change. No matters how noble and superior we can be, always, always, always there is at least another that is even more noble, more superior than us. And vice versa, no matters how little and humble we can be, always there is somebody even more litlle and humble.

Then the Noble Youngs are WE and also the Little People.

Te text don't say nothing about it, but when you make a concrete question and receive 49.6, you have the last word, you choose.

In revolutions, as in all war, the most important is to have good luck.

Choice and Luck: as "good luck" I tend to read here the well-time being in time, right? Seems like those two are significant parts, like the one drives the other somehow since . .

,
There is always conflict inside ourselves

to which I couldn't agree more . .

Feelings can be unclear, confuse, changing or unstable, but always are true.

hexagram 29 then? It seems that 29 retains in its depths an integrity hard to match ("true"). Little People also seem to me to keep close to their heart an indispensable potential (without them no revolution) but it's quality is very different from that of the JunZi, not sure exactly how . . different constitution perhaps. Their value appears to me better expressed in the execution of small and multiple, then they're at their best, but when employed, they get difficult to release at the appropriate time and there are also times when they shouldn't be employed at all (63.3)

Every day life is a sort of meditation although not always recognized.

could that be their realm? I cherish the idea of the mundane everyday meditation, feels like the dormant dragon

Quite right, force exceeds us. Did you already read «the Poem of Force» by Simone Weil?

No, but I will look it up, thanks!:)

I guess what I'm wondering about is how to read those 'signs' of luck you mentioned, which side of these dynamics is better timed, and also how to read the Yi's signs, the side of the coins that falls each time . .
just wondering out loud here . . looks like questions always abound with the Yi :eek:

:bows:
 
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rodaki

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ok, I had a thought on this, and perhaps I'm keeping this thread up for no good reason at all . . Little people are those who -irrespectively of position- are not willing, or are not capable of change; the Junzi, again irrespectively of high and low placement, is that which naturally and wholeheartedly changes . . .
seems I have been resisting change . .

:bows:
 
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rodaki

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. . and a last note here, something that would have saved me from getting unnecessarily entangled

the fan yao of 49.6, 13.6, reads in LiSe:

Above 9: Union of people in the meadow. Without regret.
Recognizing "your own kind" has nothing to do with levels. It is all about being human, and not about high or low, good or bad, rich or poor. So show clearly who and what you really are, and see and accept what others really are, without imposing your own standards.
(Changes to hex.49)

:bows:
rodaki
 

rosada

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I wonder what the significance is of the 49. Revolution thread being active while the 50.Caldron thread is active? Some omen of energy evolving, constantly stirring the soup?
 

rodaki

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hi Rosada,
honestly, it wasn't in my intention to keep it going like that but I just realized how useful the fan yao would be, time and effort saving, and the Yi also pointed out that i should go on and add it with all the rest so . . we are here again :eek:

rodaki
 

rosada

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Well, I like the idea of people continuing to post their insights even as we move forward to discuss the next hexagrams. Sort of feels like The Spirit is alive on all levels.
 

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