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51. Chen / The Arousing (Shock, Thunder)

frank_r

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Oh Wow I missed this Frank! It seems you and I were on the same wavelength just a different frequency! Love what you wrote about the lines of the 4 hexagrams being connected to half a month. Now you mention the Sun comes up in aries and that the clock time is 5 a.m. to 7 a.m.? Is that not the Large Intestine Meridian that generates evolution and change? So the lung meridian would its partner.

A great site for those interested explains these two fully http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/Metal_Meridian.html


ravenstar

Hello Janice,

And the Large intestine is also Trigram thunder.

Frank
 

frank_r

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A real Shock

We had a real shock experiencetwo days ago. Our Son who is studying told us that he wanted to stop his study.
A very 50.1 like experience. After he told us this he is a lot more part of the family again. He lived withdrawn the last couple of weeks, a lot of hours behind the computer and watching films but now he is back in the family again.

Frank
 

ravenstar

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I was just browsing back through the thread and Meng's post stuck with me
I'm not trying to poo poo Christianity here but when we look back at "Word" it is interesting to note it comes to us through In the etymology of and history of the word Wyrd. Surfing the Net I stumbled upon

The word "wyrd", is generally translated as "fate" or "destiny". The three Norse sisters of Wyrd are called Urdr, Verdani and Skuld; past, present and future. Urdr is a past form of the verb 'verda', to become, to have to.' - that which is already established. Verdani, is another part of the same verb - becoming. Skuld represents necessity - a debt due. (In Afrikaans "skuld" still means debt.)


In Old Saxon Wyrd was spelled "Wurd". In old German it was "Wurt". These words derive from a verb that comes into Old English as "weorthan", meaning "to become", or "turn into". "War", an Indo-European root word developed into the verb "weorthan". "War" was recorded to have the meaning; choose or will to, to speak, and to wind or turn. Winding and turning are the motions of spinning, the symbolic employment of the sisters of Wyrd. Through its meaning of "to speak" "war" developed into "word". It seems that at an early stage of conceptualisation "willing", "speaking", and "becoming" were in a sense synonymous. Perhaps once recognised intuitively when language still reflected the meaningful relationship perceived between things in the world.
(Rune Games - Marijane Osborn and Stella Longland)


One could then see destiny as comprising out of three elements; will, word and becoming or internal desire, expression of that desire, impression of that desire on the external world.

this I felt was agreat link to Ravenstar's


The creation bit is there to see in Wilhlem.


Starting with the will because " he sees himself placed at a disadvantage"

So is 51.1 something like - Oh NO I'm in the poop again.I don't like it here, I want to be somewhere better. Beam me up Scotty!!:rofl:

Mike

Hi Mike,

Did Scotty finally get the call? Are you in deep space now? Watch out, Mercury goes retrograde tomorrow, better watch out for the trickster up there :rofl:

I realized today you posted just before me yesterday and I missed this interesting bit on wyrd which I've seen before but never knew its meaning! And the three Norse sisters and of destiny and the three elements.

Is Spirit consciousness, YANG energy, the mind?” If so, it has been the masculine, spiritual mind we have been expanding so dramatically in recent years. “Going within” has meant venturing into the far corners of one’s mind. I believe that, in the near future, we will drop the phrase Mind-Body-Spirit, and replace it with Mind - Will - Body. In doing so, we will finally acknowledge and accept YIN energy - the Will - as an equal and vital part of life. I believe this what's taking place today, the YANG mind is discovering and learning how to accept its feminine counterpart - the love of its life - its own feelings - its WILL.

"I am the beauty of the green earth,
and the white moon among the stars,
and the mystery of the waters,
and the desire of the hearts of all.
Call unto thy soul,
arise and come unto me,
for I am the soul of nature,
who gives life to the universe.
From me all things proceed,
and unto me all things must return,
and before my face,
beloved of gods and of all,
let thine innermost divine self
be enfolded in the rapture
of the infinite..."

C.G.Leland 1896


ravenstar
 

rosada

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Yes, Frank, I too think 51.1 can be indicate a pleasant surprise:

I had an experience today that I think demonstrates its nature.
My husband has back pain and we frequently have to make this long tedious drive to the V.A. hospital about 50 miles away. I go along to keep him company but all I can do is be there and work Sudoku puzzles. Today while I sat was in the waiting room I was surprised by a woman who said to me, "I think you're wonderful!" It was so unexpected I couldn't think of a word to say and just looked at her. She went on to say, "I've tried to do those puzzles and can't do a one!" I was still so surprised I could only laugh and she laughed too and went on. When I thought about it I realized she had raised my spirits and changed my point of view. I was feeling quite useless and suddenly I saw that even though all I could do was be there for him, "those also serve who only sit and wait".
Oh, and driving home we saw the most beautiful rainbow ever.
So shock, laughing words and good fortune!

Anyway, this experience has changed my idea of 51 which I thought was all about the wrath of God pulling the rug out from under one. Now I think it's quite the opposite!
 
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ravenstar

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Hi Janice,

In acupuncture there is this point Du Mai 15, Ya Men ; Dumb Gate.
This point is between C1 and C2 in the neck just on the border where the hair is growing.
This point has a strong relationship with the tongue and a special relationship with the Heart and the Spirits of the Heart, to words and the ability to speak.
Du Mai 15 is also the Gate of the Ears. The Gate that people have to cross on the path of life before they cann reach the Absolute. Thats why this point has to do with all kind of speech problems.

It is also interesting I think that there are no ancient acupuncture points in the neck itself. Because all humans have to cross the erea of the neck to reach this point to reach the head. In the neck on the front there are the so called Heaven window points. these are all points that connect the body with our head.

For the rest Du Mai 15 is also a point of the so called extra ordinary meridian Yang Wei Mai which is also connected with trigram Thunder.
This extra oridinary meridian is translated as the Gate Keeper, the one who decides who is coming in and who is not. This meridian is the gate keeper of the yang space, the Kosmos. This meridian is essential for our Immune system on a DNA level. Because this meridian is connecting us with everything and everybody around us.
It has his starting point at Bladder 63 - Jin Men(metal Gate). This point is the Gate of the incarnation birth of the spiritual being. then it travels all the way up through the body, for instance the heels is the time of being a child(bladder 61), The hips(Galbladder 29) are the birth of sexuality(growht of the spiritual being)
The shoulders(small intestine 10) are the erea of being in relation with other people(muturity of the spiritual being).
And in Du Mai 15 there is the adulthood of the spiritual being. In the Chinese view this is the Last point of this extra ordinary meridian.
Both the Extra Ordinary meridians Du Mo and Yang Wei Mai are connected with the Nervous systems, they are both the basis(DNA) of the yang part of the human nervous system.

Frank

Wow! This is incredible Frank! I've been gaining so much knowledge from you on TCM and especially the Extra Ordinary Meridians. I've copied and saved your work on a file to read and digest as we go along. In the Spring I might see if there's a course being offered to at least get me started in understanding and making all the connections.

We're all learning the intestines are the place where we assimilate and absorb details of our reality. It's where we process our 'stuff'.

You mentioned there are no acupunture points in the neck.......when looking deeper into Aleph and Beth, I discovered Aleph rules the left eye and ear, as well as the pituitary. Beth rules The right eye and ear and the pineal gland.

(The pituitary affects our emotions and mentality as well as sexual responses, certain muscular structures and metabolism. The pineal gland has been called the third eye or the eye of the gods, it stands upright when stimulated releasing power, energy and wisdom not produced by ordinary means)

I'm beginning to wonder if the caldron is in fact an absorption of Solar (Yang) and Lunar (Yin) power. Which in its mix is visual as well as vital power....Hex 51 as well as 52? By moving the food to the caldron we've joined yin and yang which takes us to mengs picture of male and female intercourse.

ravenstar

The ancients believe that the pituitary gland was originally on top, while the pineal gland was located below it. These glands have reversed their positions...mow the pineal is above and the pituitary below. Edgar Cayce maintains the pituitary gland should still be considered the master gland
 

my_key

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Hi Mike,

Did Scotty finally get the call? Are you in deep space now? Watch out, Mercury goes retrograde tomorrow, better watch out for the trickster up there :rofl:

I realized today you posted just before me yesterday and I missed this interesting bit on wyrd which I've seen before but never knew its meaning! And the three Norse sisters and of destiny and the three elements.

Is Spirit consciousness, YANG energy, the mind?” If so, it has been the masculine, spiritual mind we have been expanding so dramatically in recent years. “Going within” has meant venturing into the far corners of one’s mind. I believe that, in the near future, we will drop the phrase Mind-Body-Spirit, and replace it with Mind - Will - Body. In doing so, we will finally acknowledge and accept YIN energy - the Will - as an equal and vital part of life. I believe this what's taking place today, the YANG mind is discovering and learning how to accept its feminine counterpart - the love of its life - its own feelings - its WILL.

"I am the beauty of the green earth,
and the white moon among the stars,
and the mystery of the waters,
and the desire of the hearts of all.
Call unto thy soul,
arise and come unto me,
for I am the soul of nature,
who gives life to the universe.
From me all things proceed,
and unto me all things must return,
and before my face,
beloved of gods and of all,
let thine innermost divine self
be enfolded in the rapture
of the infinite..."

C.G.Leland 1896

ravenstar

Did Scotty finally get the call? Oh yes
Are you in deep space now? Nine - one for the German Members and Sci Fi fans
I was actually completing the 51.1 experience by having a nice cup of tea with Spock ad Ohuru in the transporter room, talking about William Shatner's acting prowess. Mercury can join us later when things might get a bit tricky.:mischief::blush:

The Wyrd stuff interests me it's all very similar with the weaving of the web and the weaving symbolism of the IC..
I like the comments on will v mind. So when we go to shoot at a target the mind says I want to aim the gun (macho intent) and the will pulls the trigger (gives it form). We don't hit the target without intent and will - yin and yang combining.

Mike
 

rosada

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51.2
Six in the second place means:

Shock comes bringing danger.
A hundred thousand times
You lose your treasures
and must climb the nine hills.
Do not go in pursuit of them.
After seven days you will get them back again.

This pictures a situation in which a shock endangers a man and he suffers great loses. Resistance would be contrary to the movement of the time and for this reason unsuccessful.
Therefore he must simply retreat to heights inaccessible to the threatening forces of danger. He must accept his loss of property without worrying too much about it. When the time of shock and upheaval that has robbed him of his possessions has passed, he will get them back again without going in pursuit of them.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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"Shock comes bringing danger." It rests upon a firm line.

Since the first line presses upward with powerful shock, there can be no thought of a relationship of holding together between it and this weak line in a weak place. But the line is central and correct, and is therefore affected only externally by the threatening danger, just as a thunderstorm causes only momentary shock. Danger is indicated by the nuclear trigram K'an, under which the line stands. flight to the hills is suggested by the lower nuclear trigram Ken, mountain. Seven is the number indicating return, which restores the old conditions after the situations of all of the six lines have changed.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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I think the key to understanding 51.2 is in recognizing that it is riding on the back of 51.1.
With 51.1 something strong and undeniable happens, with 51.2 you realize the ramifications of this event, that you can't stop it, and all you can do is go along with it or get out of the way.

An example could be a parade coming down the street or discovering you're pregnant.

Real life example:

51.1
Someone we hadn't seen in years called to say he was on his way over for a visit.
A nice surprise except...

51.2
We already had plans for the evening. We cancelled our plans and rescheduled them for next week.
 
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my_key

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51.2 - we are overwhelmed by it all. There is nothing that we can feel or do that makes it clear for us......we are powerless. We want to run up hill and down dale, chasing around trying to make things right, but if we do this it only takes us deeper into confusion. It feeds the situation, making it worse.The best thing to do is sit back, relax try to regain some inner calm and accept that you are powerless and wait for the things going on around you to right itself.

For me it's a bit like the state that arises in a panic attack. Too many signals are coming in to us and the more we try to put things right the more it throws us deeper into the state of confusion / panic.

"You lose your treasures" - Where did I put my marbles? Brown paper bag and deep breaths are the order of the day. And seven days later, when I've come through the process and calmed down I find my marbles in the bottom of the brown paper bag.

Mike
 

my_key

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I think the key to understanding 51.2 is in recognizing that it is riding on the back of 51.1.
With 51.1 something strong and undeniable happens, with 51.2 you realize the ramifications of this event, that you can't stop it, and all you can do is go along with it or get out of the way.

An example could be a parade coming down the street or discovering you're pregnant.

Real life example:

51.1
Someone we hadn't seen in years called to say he was on his way over for a visit.
A nice surprise except...

51.2
We already had plans for the evening. We cancelled our plans and rescheduled them for next week.

Hi Rosada

This is an interesting post and I think you are right that understanding 51.2 depends on how 51.1 is seen. So to explore a bit more:

51.1 - Life is throwing things at you, but you remain calm on the inside and are able to discount them as nonsense (instant relief) or you are aware of what it all means and do something about it to help make it better for you.

I'm in a room with a radio blaring and the TV on trying to listen to someone speak to me. I'm able to cut out the TV and radio noise and hear what the person says, or I realise that I can't hear them and ask them to speak louder / switch TV and radio off so we can talk.

51.2 - Life is throwing things at you, and you lose the ability to be rational about it.

I'm in a room with a radio blaring and the TV on trying to listen to someone speak to me. I try to listen to them all at once find I can't make any sense of it all, pick up a sledgehammer and smash the TV and radio because they were too loud and batter the other person for not speaking loudly enough.

Or am i being too extreme here? It'll be interesting to hear what others have to make of this.

Mike
 

rosada

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Some one is talking but you can't hear them with the radio and t.v. blaring.

51.2
Leave the room. Tell the person you will come back when their shows are over.
They will either turn off the sets or agree and will come looking for you when the time is right.
 
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rosada

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Actually Mike, I think the upsets life throws at you at 51. are not to be shrugged off as nonsense, but rather are the sort that require adjustment. Like catching a glimpse of yourself in a window while trudging down the street and suddenly seeing what you REALLY look like. After you've gotten this major reality check you must continue walking but although you are calm on the outside, this flash changes everything and as a result "the superior man sets his life in order and examines himself."
 

ravenstar

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For me it's a bit like the state that arises in a panic attack. Too many signals are coming in to us and the more we try to put things right the more it throws us deeper into the state of confusion / panic.

"You lose your treasures" - Where did I put my marbles? Brown paper bag and deep breaths are the order of the day. And seven days later, when I've come through the process and calmed down I find my marbles in the bottom of the brown paper bag.

Mike

Thought I'd share a 'fable' as told by Deepak Chopra in a CD series given to me years ago from a friend (beautiful soul) who has sinced passed on. I think it tells the story of51.2 and Mike's thoughts above.

A fable as told by Deepak Chopra

There was once a man who valued only two things in his life, his son and his pony. His whole reality was only his pony and his son. One day the pony disappeared and he was devastated, he had lost half his fortune. And he was in the depths of despair, anguish and misery thinking about his lost pony when the pony returned and with the pony was an Arabian stallion, the most beautiful horse he had ever seen. Suddenly from the depths of despair, he was in the heights of ecstasy. He was completely overjoyed now.

And the next day his son was riding the pony and fell down and broke his leg. So again from the heights of ecstasy he was in the depths of despair, anguish and misery. He was wallowing in his misery when the government sent some army people to take the young man in their village to war. But they left his son behind because he had a broken leg. So again from the depths of despair he was in the heights of ecstasy.


This is what Deepak Chopra calls Object Referral. As long as we identify with objects in our environment to understand ourselves, we won't know who we are because our tendency is to evaluate and understand ourselves through the eyes of others. What happens is our life becomes a rollercoaster ride of emotions. These people (object referral) cannot function well in the midst of chaos because objects are constantly changing. And so, Life is always going to be unstable. One of the symptoms of object referral is fatigue because we have relinquished our Power to the object of reference. This can eventually cause discomfort and dis-ease in the body.

The opposite of object referral is self referral. A self referral person feels good and happy all the time regardless of the situation or environment they are in. They don’t identify themselves with objects, they are detached from them. They also have no urge to prove themselves to anyone, they are just happy being with themselves, with nature and with life.

I found it interesting that the sum of the first seven numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, equals 28, which reduces to 10, the number of UNITY. We all go through cycles of experience and 7 marks the point when we can gather, synthesize and assemble what we’ve learned for our soul’s growth.

Also, in ancient times, Temple steps were made of 7, symbolic of the 7 degrees of Wisdomb(which Wilhelm states is the number we will look at once all 6 lines have changed. It is where “4” is transformed into a perfect square, a point of union with the trine of spirit.

***

In our humanness we also go through 7 year cycles. The 1st cycle is our physical structure, the 2nd cycle is the development of feelings and emotions, the 3rd cycle is on spiritual development and Self Will. The 4th (28 years) is known as the crisis point or Saturn Return.

Liz Greene (professional astrologer) has noticed marriages seem to occur during the Saturn return because it also reflects our need to be free from our past. Saturn return is not just about marraige it is a time when we feel dissatisfied in our life, a time of liberating the personality from its past and of deeply evaluating one's life.

ravenstar
 

frank_r

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I found it interesting that the sum of the first seven numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, equals 28, which reduces to 10, the number of UNITY. We all go through cycles of experience and 7 marks the point when we can gather, synthesize and assemble what we’ve learned for our soul’s growth.

In our humanness we also go through 7 year cycles. The 1st cycle is our physical structure, the 2nd cycle is the development of feelings and emotions, the 3rd cycle is on spiritual development and Self Will. The 4th (28 years) is known as the crisis point or Saturn Return.

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

Yes a nice story,I know it as an old Chinese folktale.
And 7 is also the number of our emotions. And the number of the opening in our head where we can sense the emotions.
The Chinese have also the seven year cycle of Woman( man have a 8 year cycle).

In the Su Wen they write about 7 : The combination of number 3, which is that of Heaven, with number 4, which is that of Earth, gives the number 7, which is that of Life. It is also the number of the 7 lights in Heaven(Sun, Moon and 5 Planets) as well as that of the fertility of Woman, mother of the entire human race. the rest of Chapter 1 the Su Wen gives a description of this 7 year cycle of a woman.


And about numerlogy when we look to the sum of numbers then you always get 3,6,9 or 10(1). For instance 1,2,3,4,5...49=1 1,2,3,4....50=6 1,2,3,4...51=3 and 1,2,3,4....52=1 1,2,3,4....53=9
Tesla already wrote " when we understand the numbers 3,6,9 then we understand the universe".
Hexagram 1 and 2 are conected with 10(1) and 3,6,9.

Frank
 
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ravenstar

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51.2
Six in the second place means:

Shock comes bringing danger.
A hundred thousand times
You lose your treasures
and must climb the nine hills.
Do not go in pursuit of them.

My curiousity got the best of me and I wondered what the nine hills meant. If I'm right they are called the Nine Yanas

From http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Nine_yanas

Nine Yanas (Wyl. theg pa dgu) — within the Nyingma tradition, the full spectrum of spiritual paths is divided into nine yanas, a system of practice bringing together all the approaches of the Buddha’s teaching into a single comprehensive path to enlightenment.

Shravaka yana
Pratyekabuddha yana
Bodhisattva yana
Kriya Tantra
Charya Tantra
Yoga Tantra
Mahayoga
Anuyoga
Atiyoga


From this website http://essenes.net/index.php?Itemid=579&id=103&option=com_content&task=view

"The Nyingma teachings are uniquely categorized in nine yanas, or vehicles. The main practices are emphasized in the three inner tantras of Maha Yoga, Anu Yoga, and Ati Yoga. Ati Yoga is also known as the Great Perfection, Dzogpa Chenpo, or simply as Dzogchen. The practice of Dzogchen is the heart of the Nyingma tradition. It is the most ancient and direct stream of wisdom probably originating with Mar Mani, the Nazorean Buddha of Light who was the Paraclete of Christianity, the Saoshant of Zarathustrianism, and the Matreya of Buudhism."

"Dzogchen, Ati or "highest" yoga, represents the pinnacle of the Buddhist system of Nine Yanas, or vehicles for liberation. Being the highest of the vehicles it is also the simplest one. Its essence is the purest, clearest form of meditation or mind training. Such mind training is critical not only for grasping new information and knowledge like that presented by the science of time, but even more importantly, for obtaining a fresh, uncluttered glimpse of your own life and being in the universe.

The point of meditation is to experience directly without any kind of perceptually conditioned filters whatsoever. The meditation experience is no different than the nature of reality. When we practice meditation sufficiently we can begin to see that the natural state of mind is always present. It is our mental concepts that keep us from experiencing this natural state of mind.

Dzogchen describes this natural sate of mind as possessing three qualities: clarity, luminosity, and unobstructedness. In terms of the Cube of the Law, clarity corresponds to the plane of mind; luminosity to the plane of spirit; and unobstructedness to the plane of will. These distinctions are interpenetrating and self-existing, and so there is no need to look for them.

Doing without doing, trying without trying, the point is to always be in the here-and-now of the eternally abiding present moment. This present moment of your here-and-now mind is the center point of the fourth-dimensional radial matrix. Tibetan tradition refers to this as the Mandala principle, which includes the dance of the "Five Wisdom Sisters," the cyclic manifestations of the energy of the phenomenal world. These intrinsically meaningful patterns of mind and energy need no further significance beyond the moment in which they appear. "The everyday practice of Dzogchen is just everyday life itself..." Practice Dzogchen and become who you are!"- by the Preceptor of the Invisible College


Then a friend of mine told me this....although she isn't sure where it came from

at the end of the journey through the nine yanas, it is clear that the journey need never have been made, as ultimately there is no Buddhism.

This also made me think of Stephen Hawkings who was imprisoned in a wheel chair, unable to move his hands or even speak but was able to send his mind where no one had gone before.....into the horizons of black holes and came back to tell us of discoveries that revolutionized astrophysics.

And what of Nien Cheng's book Life and Death in Shanghai a classic of her own story of perseverance while in solitary confinement and torture during Chin'a Cultural Revolution. This seems to feed into 51.3 where her incredible will and compassion for humanity remained undaunting even after the murder of her daughter.

Then there is Carlos Castenadas' Tales of Power, Power of Silence, The Active Side of Infinity, etc. Whether these books are real or not their teachings linger on after reading them.

I'm sure others can think of other inspirational stories of people who were able to overcome great odds through the force of will.

ravenstar
 

ravenstar

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Hello Janice,

Yes a nice story,I know it as an old Chinese folktale.
And 7 is also the number of our emotions. And the number of the opening in our head where we can sense the emotions.
The Chinese have also the seven year cycle of Woman( man have a 8 year cycle).

In the Su Wen they write about 7 : The combination of number 3, which is that of Heaven, with number 4, which is that of Earth, gives the number 7, which is that of Life. It is also the number of the 7 lights in Heaven(Sun, Moon and 5 Planets) as well as that of the fertility of Woman, mother of the entire human race. the rest of Chapter 1 the Su Wen gives a description of this 7 year cycle of a woman.


And about numerlogy when we look to the sum of numbers then you always get 3,6,9 or 10(1). For instance 1,2,3,4,5...49=1 1,2,3,4....50=6 1,2,3,4...51=3 and 1,2,3,4....52=1 1,2,3,4....53=9
Tesla already wrote " when we understand the numbers 3,6,9 then we understand the universe".
Hexagram 1 and 2 are conected with 10(1) and 64 and 63 with 3,6,9.

Frank

Hi Frank!

Thank you!! You've taught me so much about the I Ching and love the relation you've mentioned with numerology. Hmm 51=3 Oh my gosh it is about Free Will!!!

From my notes on 3.....
Will is not just a matter of doing what you want to do. It also means being free within yourself to feel what you are feeling and to express those emotions, whatever they may be, in a way that is natural for you. Only then can you know what you want. Only then can you create what you want.

WOW! Thanks Frank :bows:

ravenstar
 

my_key

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Actually Mike, I think the upsets life throws at you at 51. are not to be shrugged off as nonsense, but rather are the sort that require adjustment. Like catching a glimpse of yourself in a window while trudging down the street and suddenly seeing what you REALLY look like. After you've gotten this major reality check you must continue walking but although you are calm on the outside, this flash changes everything and as a result "the superior man sets his life in order and examines himself."

Hi rosada
For 51 I'd agree the outcome is a change for the better. With regard to "nonsense" pertaining to 51.1 I'd say I was trying to convey that the shock is of little importance rather than nonsense because internally the changes / adjustments are made so quickly. Does that make more sense?

Hi Janice

This is what Deepak Chopra calls Object Referral. As long as we identify with objects in our environment to understand ourselves, we won't know who we are because our tendency is to evaluate and understand ourselves through the eyes of others. What happens is our life becomes a rollercoaster ride of emotions. These people (object referral) cannot function well in the midst of chaos because objects are constantly changing. And so, Life is always going to be unstable. One of the symptoms of object referral is fatigue because we have relinquished our Power to the object of reference. This can eventually cause discomfort and dis-ease in the body.

The opposite of object referral is self referral. A self referral person feels good and happy all the time regardless of the situation or environment they are in. They don’t identify themselves with objects, they are detached from them. They also have no urge to prove themselves to anyone, they are just happy being with themselves, with nature and with life.

This makes interesting reading. Thanks for posting. 51.2 - So long as we are attached to the shock we cannot escape it. We have to let the tremors take there course until the shock shakes us free of it's own accord. We can only see the benefits after we have been thrown off and look back. Very much a case of trust the process, by the sound of it

Mike
 

ravenstar

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We can only see the benefits after we have been thrown off and look back. Very much a case of trust the process, by the sound of it

Mike

This speaks volumes to me and helps me to understand as well the "9" whose tendency is to look back in the rearview mirror.

If you're interested Mike, Deepak Chopra's book The Seven Laws For Success is available online and there are several pages which speaks of the object and self referral.

It's here http://www.scribd.com/doc/8939477/Deepak-Chopra-Seven-Laws-for-Success

ravenstar
 

rosada

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Can't agree with you there, Mike. I think 51.1 says the shock is very important. It is the governing line of the whole hexagram, meaning it sums up what the hexagram is all about. Whether the shock is large or small isn't what makes it important, what is important is the shock is enough to cause one to feel at a disadvantage but that one will be able to overcome the disadvantage and by so doing one feels better than ever.

What I think you are saying is that 51.1 is a small shock and therefore easily brushed aside.
I am saying large or small the point of 51.1 is a shock that causes an upset that must be adjusted to. I guess if we compared it to riding a bicycle you would be saying, "You come to a bump in the road, don't worry about it, just keep going." and I would be saying,"That bump will throw you off the bike, but if you adjust your balance you'll be fine and feel the joy of overcoming."
The line requires an adjustment, not just a brush off.

It seems like maybe you are thinking the first line of 51 represents a small shock and the shocks get more intense in later lines? I don't think so. I think 51.1 represents the biggest shock and that if one overcomes this, then all future shocks seem less important because one has survived this first terrifying experience and now realizes that all outer world shocks can be dealt with.

This is just my understanding from my own reading, but I think I'm on to something.
 
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meng

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Line 2, for me, typically is tied to some kind of pissing contest of who is right, where each side is positive that their view is the correct one. Since this type of argument is unprovable, the argument can go on forever with no victor. Climbing the hills is therefore akin to beating a dead horse.
 

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Thought I'd share a 'fable' as told by Deepak Chopra in a CD series given to me years ago from a friend (beautiful soul) who has sinced passed on. I think it tells the story of51.2 and Mike's thoughts above...
Janice:

In Yellowbridge there is a short version of this folk story:


塞翁失馬
The Lost Horse
0152010165.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg


塞翁失馬 (sai weng shi ma), the title of this story, is actually a commonly used Chinese idiom or chengyu . It literally translates as "Old Sai loses a horse". Old Sai is the wise man in the fable. The expression is used to remind others to take life in stride because things aren't really as good (or bad) as they seem. Certainly seems like a wise advice for a society that lives only for the present.
From: http://www.yellowbridge.com/literature/horse.php

I read all that you write with great interest.

Yours,

Charly
 

Trojina

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I thought 51.2 was simply about a situation where because of shock, in whatever form that comes, one can't hold onto ones possessions, or maybe lifestyle, (possibly ones beliefs) one must flee like a refugee. And this is not to be mourned over since anything imprtant lost will be regained. In a big upheaval you often have to let things go.

I thought the 9 hills were simply where you were going, had to go, to get out of harms way...like escaping a fire you can't hang about to save your things
 
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Trojina

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Actually Mike, I think the upsets life throws at you at 51. are not to be shrugged off as nonsense, but rather are the sort that require adjustment. Like catching a glimpse of yourself in a window while trudging down the street and suddenly seeing what you REALLY look like. After you've gotten this major reality check you must continue walking but although you are calm on the outside, this flash changes everything and as a result "the superior man sets his life in order and examines himself."


Backtracking a bit...doesn't it all depend on the context of your question. IOW shock I find is ones reaction to something, anything. It might be something big, it might be something small. If its something small then coming to regard it as 'nonsense' is itself a readjustment, ie a change of perspective. If its something big then a huge important readjustment may be necessary. There isn't any way of telling if the shock is important or unimportant other than within the context of ones question.


I noticed in her podcast re money Hilary seemed to take alot of note of what it is that is being carried safely through all these shocks. So its not the shock thats important it is not dropping the 'sacrificial spoon and chalice'. So perhaps when we get 51 as an answer it always helps to ask 'what is sacred here that I must preserve despite all the shocks'..or maybe 'what remains constant throughout the shocks.'
 
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marien

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Here's my contribution to the shock thread...

I received 51.2 > 54 as my daily I Ching reading one morning around five years ago. A few hours later, someone very close to me died unexpectedly. The line helped get me through the initial shock, and has offered comfort in the years since. Death being the most irreversible loss, yet those we love always come back in one form or another.

Of course it could also refer to losing one's keys...
 

frank_r

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51.2

51.2 the second line of shock thread. I had quit a shock yesterday from something relatively small.
But as Trojan wrote then there has to be a readjustment from the perspective. In my situation I was confronted with fear for the future and especially with the emotions regarding this future. I saw only problems and big emotions that should influence everybody. I couldn't sleep from this, my head was spinning and whole over my body there was a slight prickle. As if I was struck by lightning.

This second line is changing from thunder in lake and the nucleur trigram is changing from mountain into fire.
So the thunder is felt in the water of the lake, on the verge of the starting conciousness.
The personal perspective of the personal Earth(moutain) is getting on fire, and with this there is a feeling from taking off felt all over the body but especially in the head.

Frank
 

marien

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So perhaps when we get 51 as an answer it always helps to ask 'what is sacred here that I must preserve despite all the shocks'..or maybe 'what remains constant throughout the shocks.'

Yes, exactly.
 
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meng

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Line 2: fight or flight mechanism. What may be lost is presence and clarity of mind. One feels beside themselves.

Notable is the change to 54, where someone finds peace in an environment they're not ideally suited for.
 

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51.3
Six in the third place means:
Shock comes and makes one distraught.
If shock spurs one to action
One remains free of misfortune.

There are three kinds of shock - the shock of heaven, which is thunder, the shock of fate, and finally the shock of the heart. The present hexagram refers less to inner shock than to the shock of fate. In such times of shock, presence of mind is all too easily lost: the individual overlooks all opportunities for action and mutely lets fate take its course, But if he allows the shocks of fate to induce movement within his mind, he will overcome these external blows with little effort.

"Shock comes and makes one distraught." The place is not the appropriate one.

The word su, here rendered by "distraught," denotes literally the reviving movements of insects still numb and stiff after their winter sleep. The place is not the proper one, for the place is strong and the line weak; therefore it is not equal to the shock of the position. Hence it must allow itself to be set in motion by the shock. Through movement a weak line becomes a strong line. Thus one becomes equal to the task.
-Wilhelm
 
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rosada

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I'm not understanding the meanings of "the shock of heaven, the shock of fate and finally the shock of the heart." Can anyone give examples?

Trojan, your ideas about looking for what is sacred in a 51.1 situation makes me think of people asking after a calamity, "What do we learn from this?"

Also wanted to ask what do people make of the idea that ordinarily the first and sixth positions refer to situations outside the subject of the hexagram. If that is true, than I would have thought 51.1 would have described a person BEFORE the shock. Maybe the Shock coming in line one demonstrates how totally unexpected and therefore shocking the event is.
 
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