52. Ken / Keeping Still, Mountain

[bamboo]

my mother is a taurus and she drives the family crazy because she is so rigid and opinionated, esp my gemini sister who my mother complains is "so disorganized". The mountain, Ken, doesnt strike me as rigid as much as calm. Sagg people have a calming effect on others, in my experience. they seem to be naturally accepting of others and this can really bring out the best in taurus.

somehow the mountain seems to have an element of fire, because fire is associated with spirit and higher consciousness. maybe Leo. i think that is the fixed fire sign

 

[frank_r]

The mountains in Nepal

Hi, Frank:

Lucky you!

Best wishes,

Charly

Hello Charly,

Yes it was a wonderfull trip, we were seeing mountains for over a whole month. Never felt a bigger silence and rest in my life.

Here we are sitting on Pune Hill and have a look on the Nepali mountains, The annapourna a 8000 meter peak.

On this same hill we had a 360 degree look on the mountains and the Indian plain and there we also saw the Machupuchare(the fishtale mountain). This was in the evening, we sat a whole day on this spot only watching and feeling the silence.
This is one of the holy mountains of Nepal. a mountain that is worshipped. And this mountain is prohibited to climb.

Yesterday I saw a beautifull film, about mount Fuji in japan. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqiMLQPJUKA
The girl in the film said that this young Man(the mount Fuji) was very shy and that he was hiding himself often in the clouds. You could only see him on occasion.
The same in Nepal some months (spring and especially autumn) you can see the mountains. Very often they are hidding between or behind the clouds.

Frank

 

[ravenstar]

Ohhh Frank, your pictures are incredible!!

Interesting thoughts.....After sleeping on the hex and re-reading everyone's posts.....I think everyone's correct in the answer.

Looking at the esoteric (behind the scene) ruler of Sag.....it's earth. Sag's feel most connected to the Creator when they are in a beautiful natural setting or with animals they feel most akin to. As well Taurus' influence reinforces the idea that contact with nature helps us to clear our mind so we can feel as ONE with heaven and earth.

Capricorn's ruler is Saturn and its esoteric ruler is Saturn as well! Saturn has been also been related to Karma and one of the karmic laws is that whatever you send out to the universe returns to you threefold. It's amazing how many thoughts we unconsciously think things like 'this person won't hire me'.......'he/she won't go out with me' , 'my work won't sell, etc.

Gemini too, influences and affects our nerves and digestive system (deep breathing exercises, walks in fresh air and yoga are all beneficial).

Originally posted by bamboo - somehow the mountain seems to have an element of fire, because fire is associated with spirit and higher consciousness. maybe Leo. i think that is the fixed fire sign

This fire and the 'raging bull' could be an inner volcano that erupts from stored up stress. When we visualize ourselves as the blacksmith (esoteric ruler for Taurus is Vulcan, the blacksmith) or watch him 'hammering' in action, he could be demonstrating how Venus (Taurus) conquers the fierce force of Mars (Aries).

Taurus' are stubborn but their flipside is their unwavering determination.

Leo's? Patrick Swayze is a Leo! Look at his determination and will to beat all odds and survive!!! One of his favorite lines of all times "Larger than life is just the right size"

ravenstar

 

[frank_r]

From the Mountain Astrologer on Saturn by Fern Feto Spring...

"Saturn conjunct your Sun can feel like being trapped under a heavy, immovable boulder. It's difficult to get any perspective when you're buried beneath a large rock......

ravenstar

Hai Janice,

I have this conjunction between Sun and Saturn(in 3 degrees of each other) in Capricorn(third house), but Saturn is the locumotive of the train, behind it are the planets ;Sun, moon, mercury, mars and jupiter.(in 21 degrees, last 4 planets in Sagitarius second house)
So sometimes Saturn can also be the power that is pulling everything forward.
Or is taking Saturn all the views away? It can be both, I think.
Depends if Saturn can be modest, if it can see the bigger picture.

As a personality type Saturn/Capricorn is careful, pessimistic, serious, responsible, formal, introverted, kind of grey. Jupiter/Sagittarius, on the other hand, is extravert, colorful, optimistic, likes to takes risk, tends to gamble, and so on.

It may seem so, but Saturn/Capricorn is independent too, in a less obvious way. Outwardly adapting but inwardly ... alone towards the top!

Being a Capricorn I recognise a lot what you wrote Martin, about the Saturn/Capricorn.

Frank

 

[rodaki]

Frank, also thanks from here for sharing!

so . . sitting on the mountain, looking at the stars? I like it . .


rodaki

 

[bamboo]

Thanks Frank, love the images and how you speak of the rest and silence...

 

[rosada]

THE JUDGEMENT

KEEPING STILL. Keeping his back still
So that he no longer feels his body.
He goes into his courtyard and does not see his people.
No blame.

True quiet means keeping still when the time has come to keep still, and going forward when the time has come to go forward. In this way rest and movement are in agreement with the demands of the time, and thus there is light in life.
The hexagram signifies the end and the beginning of all movement. The back is named because in the back are located all the nerve fibers that mediate movement. if the movement of these spinal nerves is brought to a standstill, the ego. with its restlessness, disappears as it were. When a man has thus become calm, he may turn to the outside world. He no longer sees in it the struggle and tumult of individual beings, and therefore he has that true peace of mind which is needed for understanding the great laws of the universe and for acting in harmony with them. Whoever acts from these deep levels makes no mistakes.
-Wilhelm

 

[ravenstar]

Hai Janice,

I have this conjunction between Sun and Saturn(in 3 degrees of each other) in Capricorn(third house), but Saturn is the locumotive of the train, behind it are the planets ;Sun, moon, mercury, mars and jupiter.(in 21 degrees, last 4 planets in Sagitarius second house)
So sometimes Saturn can also be the power that is pulling everything forward.
Or is taking Saturn all the views away? It can be both, I think.
Depends if Saturn can be modest, if it can see the bigger picture.


Being a Capricorn I recognise a lot what you wrote Martin, about the Saturn/Capricorn.

Frank

Hi Frank,

I remember you mentioning Saturn and a number of planets in your third house in Hex 51. Saturn is in my third house too! Saturn creates quite a gravitational pull and I'm having trouble seeing it as the power pulling everything forward...it provides form, structure and limits. It is from these limits we discover how to master and utilize our power.

I think Saturn disciplines and teaches you how to communicate as well as to listen, experinece, digest and with Mercury (up and down), continually question your understanding. When one is strong within their own vehicle, energy flows unceasingly up and down. Uranus is the planet that rules the nervous system and describes our spiritual essence. It looks to Saturn, the earthbound planet to protect our spiritual energy by enclosing it in our bodily structure.....this also allows us to contain and bring in information and build/manifest from it.

With Saturn and so many other planets in your 3rd house, what I know of you from your posts.....you are imaginative (visual/mental) and gifted with unique views and ideas. You are a wonderful teacher and 'natural' storyteller, gently helping and nuturing others so they learn and understand. Saturn helps you to choose your words wisely, by filtering them through the thick mesh of your body.

In regard to hex 52, I see you leading your own life without alot of influence or approval from other people (excluding family)....and you have gained admiration from others when they notice you don't seek it. There is alot of emotional motivation in your chart that has given you the courage to go your own way do what you 'feel' is right for you. Many have applauded your independent approach and brilliant work! I know I do!!!!!

ravenstar

 

[frank_r]

Hi Bamboo and Rodaki,

I'm glad I can share these moments. And I know that living in a country with almost no hills(only the south has some small hills), it is wonderfull to see some majestic mountains.
I can advise everyone sometimes to go only to see moutains to know to be like a mountain.
Because I always felt that when you sit with a mountain for a while they realy speak to you. That's what I learned being in Nepal. The higher they get the bigger and wiser their influence is becoming. The only thing is that you need more rest to feel it.

Frank

 

[frank_r]

Hi Frank,

I remember you mentioning Saturn and a number of planets in your third house in Hex 51. Saturn is in my third house too! Saturn creates quite a gravitational pull and I'm having trouble seeing it as the power pulling everything forward...it provides form, structure and limits. It is from these limits we discover how to master and utilize our power.

I think Saturn disciplines and teaches you how to communicate as well as to listen, experinece, digest and with Mercury (up and down), continually question your understanding. When one is strong within their own vehicle, energy flows unceasingly up and down. Uranus is the planet that rules the nervous system and describes our spiritual essence. It looks to Saturn, the earthbound planet to protect our spiritual energy by enclosing it in our bodily structure.....this also allows us to contain and bring in information and build/manifest from it.

With Saturn and so many other planets in your 3rd house, what I know of you from your posts.....you are imaginative (visual/mental) and gifted with unique views and ideas. You are a wonderful teacher and 'natural' storyteller, gently helping and nuturing others so they learn and understand. Saturn helps you to choose your words wisely, by filtering them through the thick mesh of your body.

In regard to hex 52, I see you leading your own life without alot of influence or approval from other people (excluding family)....and you have gained admiration from others when they notice you don't seek it. There is alot of emotional motivation in your chart that has given you the courage to go your own way do what you 'feel' is right for you. Many have applauded your independent approach and brilliant work! I know I do!!!!!

ravenstar

Hello Janice,

Thank you for your kind words.
I'm glad that you joined this group some time ago. I'm always looking forward reading your posts and learn a lot from your visions and knowledge regarding astrology and the human body in all his dephts.

Frank :bows:

 

[meng]

Because I always felt that when you sit with a mountain for a while they realy speak to you. That's what I learned being in Nepal. The higher they get the bigger and wiser their influence is becoming. The only thing is that you need more rest to feel it.

So true, Frank. That is the theme of LiSe's 11 Mount Tai. Mountains can open our eyes and ears.

But this also reminds me of where I grew up, which was relatively flat. There was a mountain in the center of Clifton (cliff town), where I lived, called Garret Mountain. As a kid, I used to hunt for fox there with my bow and arrow (really a branch and some string). Garret Mountain was mythical to the locals. It was the make out place for teens, the return to roots for seekers.

I moved to Colorado for a year, and took up residence in Woodland Park, which sits at the base of Pike's Peak. This was genuine Rocky Mountain high living.

Years later I returned to Clifton, and before leaving, drove up and through Garret Mountain. It was now, by comparison, only a mole hill. And yet, to those who live anywhere around that place still viewed it with affection and reverence.

Which is what men have been saying for thousands of years: It isn't the size that counts.

 

[rosada]

COMMENTARY ON THE DECISION

KEEPING STILL means stopping.
When it is time to stop, then stop.
When it is time to advance, then advance.
Thus movement and rest do not miss the right time,
And their course becomes bright and clear.
Keeping his stopping still (keeping his back still) means stopping in his place. Those above and those below are in opposition and have nothing in common. Therefore it is said: "He does not feel his body. He goes into his courtyard and does not see his people. No blame."

The nature of the hexagram predicates a separation of the upper and lower trigram. This is indicated also by the divergent movements of the nuclear trigrams, the upper going upward and the lower downward. Keeping still is the meaning of the hexagram itself, movement is the meaning of the nuclear trigrams.

Therefore it is explained that movement and stopping, each at the right time, are both features of rest: the one is continuance in a state of movement, the other continuance in a state of rest.

The hexagram Ken has an inner brilliance, because the light line at the top is above the two dark ones and so is not darkened; hence the saying: "Their course becomes bright and clear."
-Wilhelm

 

[bamboo]

I have Saturn in the third house too. Interesting words, ravenstar.

 

[rosada]

What 52. means to me:
Stop and organize your thoughts up to this point before continuing.
There may be people who's ideas are going in a different direction.
Now is a good opportunity to let them pass.

 

[Trojina]

What 52. means to me:
Stop and organize your thoughts up to this point before continuing.
There may be people who's ideas are going in a different direction.
Now is a good opportunity to let them pass.

Funny you should say that..seems an opportune moment for me to ask why Saturn has become linked with 52 ? Saturn is all about boundaries, limits...but I can't say i think it has alot to do with keeping still If i had to assign a hexagram to Saturn at all it would be hex 60. In astrology we have earth, fire , air and water signs plus the categories of cardinal, mutable and fixed. I suppose you might link the fixed signs, leo, taurus, aquarius and scorpio to 52 in a very loose sort of way. But Taurus for example while stubborn is hardly impervious to sensual delights, they are most sensual sign. How can one link this sensual earthiness with mountain. In 52 there is the quality of not being moved even by the prescence of others. Thought I'd just mention this in case future readers think its set in stone that Saturn is somehow linked with 52.

Actually my feeling is that 52 has a very airy quality. Air signs especially Aquarius are able to be detached..and Aquarius is also a fixed sign, so I think if I had to I 'd say 52 was linked with Aquarius...though i think its a bit of a shaky link since Aquarius is joint ruled by Uranus and Saturn...well Uranus might be a volcano mountain i guess..although ultimately trying to link hexes to signs really has its limitations i think. I don't think there are neat correspondences there, only loose associations perhaps.

In 52 its said one loses sense of the body, as one does in meditation. This is infact losing boundaries, the boundaries of the body,thus the very reverse of role of Saturn to know and feel ones boundaries

 

[frank_r]

In 52 its said one loses sense of the body, as one does in meditation. This is infact losing boundaries, the boundaries of the body,thus the very reverse of role of Saturn to know and feel ones boundaries

Hello Trojan,

For me personally meditation and Saturn have severall similar aspects.
With meditation you sit for the outsider as a solid rock. The boundaries of the body are still there the difference is that everything is in a resting position. For me it is like Saturn, the judge that is solid in his judgement but is calm, full of rest in his/her inside. I think that it is more a holistic idea the inside is still in contact with and controls the boundaries of the body. And this is done with the silence and rest on the inside. The judge (Saturn) can be executant of the Tao, the void of the heart. Hard/ solid and peacefull from the outside like a mountain but full of life from the inside but this everything from a peacefull silent perspective.

Nigel richmond desribes this as a ongoing proces. " Inner stillness(mountain) in the flowing(water) discharges it's energy(thunder) by returning to stillness(mountain)".

Frank

 

[rosada]

There was an email making the rounds a few years back arguing what was Christ's true nationality based on different biblical texts. The only one I can remember is "Jesus was obviously Irish because he loved Green Pastures." Anyway, it seems to me we could find similar associations for all the hexagrams and the zodiac signs.

52. Keeping Still is best represented by the astrological sign..

ARIES because here the superior man is totally focused on taming his ego.

TAURUS because this sign is known for calm and not moving.

GEMINI because it rules neighbors and also because 52 has Twin Peaks.

CANCER ruler of one's own home and courtyard.

LEO because it is the ruler of the spine.

VIRGO because it rules the nerves.

LIBRA because it is the perfect balance of mountain above and mountain below.

SCORPIO because it it the sign of death{quiet} and rebirth and true quiet is not just keeping still when it is time to keep still, but being able to be reborn, to be able move again when it is time to move.

SAGITTARIUS because it is the sign of Wisdom.

CAPRICORN because it rules boundries and borders and keeping on one's own side of the courtyard.

AQUARIUS because it is the sign of loose associations.

PISCES because it is the sign that rules meditation.

 

[ravenstar]

Hello Janice,

Thank you for your kind words.
I'm glad that you joined this group some time ago. I'm always looking forward reading your posts and learn a lot from your visions and knowledge regarding astrology and the human body in all his dephts.

Frank :bows:

Hi Frank,

I'm so glad I joined this wonderful group too! But hey! this is your moment to shine! I've learned so much from you and charly on TCM and the original text. And let's not forget sparhawk, meng, my_key, bamboo, rosada and so many more. Thank you!

ravenstar :bows:

 

[rosada]

The back is that part of the body which is invisible to oneself; keeping the back still symbolizes making the self still. The lower primary trigram indicates this keeping still of the back, so that one is no longer aware of one's body, that is, of one's personality. The upper primary trigram means courtyard. The individual lines of the upper trigram have no relation to the corresponding lines of the lower trigram, hence the upper and the lower trigram turn their backs on each other, as it were. Hence one does not see the other persons in the courtyard.
-Wilhelm.

 

[ravenstar]

Funny you should say that..seems an opportune moment for me to ask why Saturn has become linked with 52 ? Saturn is all about boundaries, limits...but I can't say i think it has alot to do with keeping still If i had to assign a hexagram to Saturn at all it would be hex 60. In astrology we have earth, fire , air and water signs plus the categories of cardinal, mutable and fixed. I suppose you might link the fixed signs, leo, taurus, aquarius and scorpio to 52 in a very loose sort of way. But Taurus for example while stubborn is hardly impervious to sensual delights, they are most sensual sign. How can one link this sensual earthiness with mountain. In 52 there is the quality of not being moved even by the prescence of others. Thought I'd just mention this in case future readers think its set in stone that Saturn is somehow linked with 52.

Actually my feeling is that 52 has a very airy quality. Air signs especially Aquarius are able to be detached..and Aquarius is also a fixed sign, so I think if I had to I 'd say 52 was linked with Aquarius...though i think its a bit of a shaky link since Aquarius is joint ruled by Uranus and Saturn...well Uranus might be a volcano mountain i guess..although ultimately trying to link hexes to signs really has its limitations i think. I don't think there are neat correspondences there, only loose associations perhaps.

In 52 its said one loses sense of the body, as one does in meditation. This is infact losing boundaries, the boundaries of the body,thus the very reverse of role of Saturn to know and feel ones boundaries

Hi trojan,

I like what frank said.....

Originally posted by frank - For me personally meditation and Saturn have severall similar aspects.
With meditation you sit for the outsider as a solid rock. The boundaries of the body are still there the difference is that everything is in a resting position. For me it is like Saturn, the judge that is solid in his judgement but is calm, full of rest in his/her inside. I think that it is more a holistic idea the inside is still in contact with and controls the boundaries of the body. And this is done with the silence and rest on the inside. The judge (Saturn) can be executant of the Tao, the void of the heart. Hard/ solid and peacefull from the outside like a mountain but full of life from the inside but this everything from a peacefull silent perspective.

Nigel richmond desribes this as a ongoing proces. " Inner stillness(mountain) in the flowing(water) discharges it's energy(thunder) by returning to stillness(mountain)".

And what rosada said about the writings of what appear to be originally from the work of Alice Bailey.

This quote as well seems to fit with frank's and rosada's.......

"We can all see another person's body directly [Saturn]. We see the lips moving, the eyes opening and shutting, the lines of the mouth and face changing, and the body expressing itself as a whole in action. But the person himself is invisible. All our thoughts, emotions, feelings, imaginations, reveries, dreams, fantasies are invisible. All that belongs to our scheming, planning, secrets, our affections, speculations, ponderings, valuities, uncertainties, all our desires, longing, appetites, sensations, our likes, dislikes, aversions, attractions, loves and hates--all are themselves invisible. They constitute oneself."
Maurice Nicholl

In meditation, we first need a body [saturn] and soul from which to work from. I don't think meditation is just about losing boundaries, it's a concentrated discipline [saturn] a form of relaxation, that many people have used and attributed to their successes in the outer world. It works as a catalyst to move you into deeper levels of awareness. It's where you tap into a natural resource [water]----the flow of your own creativity. But this can only happen when we are open and honest with ourselves.

When I look at the pictures on this thread it makes me feel as if the skin is the outer crust of the earth and within this crust is contained everything......for example, the earth's river is the blood coursing through my veins, the oceans and their mighty tides my lungs, the woods and forests the hair on my head and skin....the plains my back and abdomen....the receptivity of the valleys as the upturned palms of my hands....the hills and mountains my shoulders and head.....the wind, my breath. All this makes one feel united and one with this dynamo of energy.

In yoga, the upward spine is thought to be like a magnet, aligned with North and South. It is the pillar of our being, it is our strength. Yoga exercises increase our skeletal flexibility [saturn] as well as stimulate our internal organs and glands as well as a feeling of well-being. I've practised yoga to help me with my fibromyalgia.

The back contains the central nervous system and the central blood supply....therefore every thought, feeling, experience, response and impression is registered here. It is the glandular and nervous system of the body that is responsible for controlling our thought patterns, emotional reactions and degree of happiness or unhappiness. Meditation and yoga work on relaxing deep tensions which in turn help the functioning of the glandular and nervous system, making it stronger, more resilient and balanced. So yoga is a stepping stone to higher levels of consciousness. In doing so, we unite with all of life and experience self-acceptance, patience and sincerity...we enjoy the moment and being with the Self (body, mind and spirit.)

ravenstar

 

[ravenstar]

I have Saturn in the third house too. Interesting words, ravenstar.

How interesting bamboo and you write beautifully too! I've read your posts in the shared reading section and here in the exploring divination...they are creative and have so much depth and meaing to them!! Just like frank, you have the storyteller archetype too!

ravenstar :bows:

 

[rosada]

Just to keep the record straight, my comments here are either my own or quotes from Wilhelm, as noted (not Alice Bailey).

 

[rosada]

THE IMAGE

Mountains standing close together:
The image of KEEPING STILL.
Thus the superior man
Does not permit his thoughts to go beyond his situation.

The heart thinks constantly. This cannot be changed, but the movements of the heart - that is, a man's thoughts - should restrict themselves to the immediate situation. All thinking that goes beyond this only makes the heart sore.
-Wilhelm

 

[meng]

The heart thinks constantly. This cannot be changed, but the movements of the heart - that is, a man's thoughts - should restrict themselves to the immediate situation. All thinking that goes beyond this only makes the heart sore.
-Wilhelm

I've always found this comment somewhat peculiar. First, there's a thinking heart, and then there's a man's thoughts, which is the constant movement of the heart. How are the movements of thought different from the constantly thinking heart?

I think what he may have meant is that the mind thinks constantly, and is either leading, moving in time with, or following the heart. In 52, the warning is to not let the mind or heart lead, but to solidify them both as one. Someone is at peace when they're doing what they love, and I think that is the idea of 52 - being steady with mind and heart together, and finding peace there.

 

[Trojina]

Hi trojan,




In meditation, we first need a body [saturn] and soul from which to work from. I don't think meditation is just about losing boundaries, it's a concentrated discipline [saturn] a form of relaxation, that many people have used and attributed to their successes in the outer world. It works as a catalyst to move you into deeper levels of awareness. It's where you tap into a natural resource [water]----the flow of your own creativity. But this can only happen when we are open and honest with ourselves.

It a matter of opinion and what kind of meditation you do. The meditation i do is not a concentrated discipline more of a letting go which is not what Saturn represents to me. The meditation I do doesn't require me to be open and honest with myself as that requires thinking and my meditation is aimed at letting go of thinking for a while. The above is someones idea of meditation. I'm disagreeing here not to be awkward but to forstall 52.2 which I've found can mean one travels so far in a mistaken direction and can't stop as the momentum builds. Here we started with 52 and Saturn as a loose association, infact even Martin who suggested it was not saying 52=Saturn, I think he said he found the quality of 52 lighter than that which I'd agree with. Next thing seemed to me 52 was being way too closely and erroneously allied with the qualities of Saturn.

IMO of course

 

[frank_r]

It a matter of opinion and what kind of meditation you do. The meditation i do is not a concentrated discipline more of a letting go which is not what Saturn represents to me. The meditation I do doesn't require me to be open and honest with myself as that requires thinking and my meditation is aimed at letting go of thinking for a while. The above is someones idea of meditation. I'm disagreeing here not to be awkward but to forstall 52.2 which I've found can mean one travels so far in a mistaken direction and can't stop as the momentum builds. Here we started with 52 and Saturn as a loose association, infact even Martin who suggested it was not saying 52=Saturn, I think he said he found the quality of 52 lighter than that which I'd agree with. Next thing seemed to me 52 was being way too closely and erroneously allied with the qualities of Saturn.

IMO of course

Hello Trojan,

When you look at 52 what makes it lighter than Saturn? Is this for you visible in a line that we go in a direction that is not flexible, like what you wrote about 52.2 or is it the hexagram.
Can you explain me what you are thinking of? Where your heart and mind are going in 52.
Maybe this is the proces where Bruce was speaking of the proces of mind and heart. That our hearts and minds are going in all kind of directions.

Frank

 

[martin]

Compared to the Saturn of astrology the Mountain of the Yi seems relatively weightless. Not so much gravitation there, it feels as if the mountain is made of very light material, you can hold it in your hand and toss it in the air.
From gravitation to levitation ..

And the Mountain, as I imagine it, is white. While Saturn is, what is it? Brown? Black?
At least according to astrological tradition. Nowadays astrologers will rarely call Saturn a malefic - an evil-doer - anymore but they still tend to paint Saturn in dark colors.

Personally I think they are overdoing it. The planet Saturn has rings and 60 (!) moons (according to the last count that I know of, perhaps there are more, still counting ..)
How romantic!
And recently it was discovered that one of the moons (Rhea) is a kind of mini Saturn, it has rings too. How playful!

How could such a romantic and playful system be all dark and heavy?
No doubt about it, astrologers suffer from saturnofobia ! Saturn is at worst a little devil, a naughty child ..

Still, this little devil is not as white and light as the Mountain of the Yi, I guess.
And not as innocent, perhaps.

 

[Trojina]

Hello Trojan,

When you look at 52 what makes it lighter than Saturn? Is this for you visible in a line that we go in a direction that is not flexible, like what you wrote about 52.2 or is it the hexagram.
Can you explain me what you are thinking of? Where your heart and mind are going in 52.
Maybe this is the proces where Bruce was speaking of the proces of mind and heart. That our hearts and minds are going in all kind of directions.

Frank

. What i meant about 52.2 was if people just start assuming 52 equals Saturn they gather momentum in an mistaken direction as 52 is not represented by saturn nor any other planet for that matter..its only a passing association...but it seemed to be a snowballing assumption somehow 52 = Saturn

The rings of Saturn symbolise limits, boundaries, not romance as martin suggests. Saturn is about duty, responsibility and continuing things till they are done. It isn't about coming to a stop which is 52 though of course Saturn can slow you down and stop you dead i your tracks..but so can Neptune, Pluto etc

Having said that i think its fruitless to argue about it since I can't see that astrology explains hexagrams in anyway...its just a case of association...there are no direct correspondences

My association to 52 is not a sense of boundaries, of duty, of responsibility. I think i associate 52 with stillness and detachment. There is no planet or sign that can sensibly be said to represent stillness or detachment since these transcend the characteristics handed down by astologers. My feeling sense of 52 is way more Uranian than Saturnian. A mountain rises above concerns of everyday life, it is distanced from duties of everyday life which Saturn is so concerned with. I sense more of a Uranian energy because of the detachment of 52 but it doesn't fit exactly its just an impression. Also on a vibrational level I'd say Saturn was more dense, Uranus more quick and light. As one rises higher up the mountain i don't get a Saturnian sense of denseness but a rarifying of atmosphere, heady even, the charge of Uranus.

Its also ill fitting I think to take qualities of earth signs and apply them to mountain on mountain. I feel the mountain is a kind of seperate element from earth and literally nearer air, the ether at the top, where you might feel dizzy, disorientated...outside your normal sphere. Though of course there is always the mountain goat !

 

[meng]

I like any associations that can cross reference with hexagrams and change lines. I know precious little about astrology, and find it interesting to see some of the parallels that can be drawn, even if they're not always precise similes, and even if I don't understand them all, like how a mountain can be white (clouds?) or light (they float in the sky?). I like associations with dreams, symbols, thoughts of all kinds, because in the end, none of these things exist as an island, they are all interrelated.

When I said I see 52 as having a pinch of Sagittarius, there wasn't much thought put into it. Two best friends and my father are/were Sagittarius, so my understanding comes primarily from observing them, and there is certainly an element of 52 in their character. It doesn't matter if there's an exact and detailed correlation to hexagram 52 - or someone's opinion of what 52 means to them.

 

[martin]

I agree Trojan, it would be wrong to identify hexagram 52 or the Mountain trigram with Saturn. They have something in common (a lot, I think) but there are significant differences too.
It's the same with other planets and trigrams. Venus is much like the Lake trigram for instance, but again, there are differences.
I think that is to be expected when you try to compare systems that originate in different cultures. Because they are all human made you will probably find similarities. No simple one to one correspondences though.

You mentioned air in connection with Mountain or hexagram 52 and yes, it feels airy to me too. Perhaps even Uranian or Aquarian. Although Mountain feels very quiet and Uranus feels restless. I should know, I have the thing conjunct my sun.
Perhaps Saturn in Libra comes close? No, no it's not the same, just close.