53.6 to 39 for a special encounter

[imee_ooi]

Dear All,

I would like to ask for help to shed some light in this situation.

I had a very special encounter with a man who is 15 years old than me. It was in the most unexpected place: the subway. Before that I don't believe in "love at first sight", but after this encounter, I believe in it. From the first moment I knew he is a married man, with 2 children. There is such special attraction between us that made me feel if I'd meet him 10 or 20 years earlier, if I was born a bit earlier, or he later, he'd be the one. Afterwards we met up and saw each other for several times. For him staying as a clandestine love affair is comfortable as soon as I won't disturb his evenings and weekends. I decide to cut the relationship and ask him to not contact me anymore, because I know he'll not divorce, and I do not want to suffer from being with a man who is not available.

After I took this decision, I feel very very sad..., it has been such long time I do not meet a special person like him (who reminds of me of my first boyfriend) and I can not stop thinking about him, even it only last for 2 weeks and it sounds ...... crazy.

What can 53.6 to 39 reveal ?

Thank you.

 

[deusa]

It was wise to let go. You miss him now, you'll get over him.
I would read that in the context of obstruction (39), because his marriage was an obstruction to your relationship, you let go (53.6). The wild geese fly away and you are left to do a cerimony with their feathers.
Make a "cut cerimony". Let him go.

 

[imee_ooi]

Thanks a lot deusa for your reply.

Before I made this decision (out of defense mechanism). I had another prediction which is 38.6 to 54. I think if I didn't make the step to cut, I might have been comfortable with the situation as "second wife" indicated in 54 the marring maiden.

38.6 might be the initial defensive mechanism. I lose that defense after some meetings with him and enveloped myself with being in love. But in the last meeting, some words from him, little gesture reminds me of my past wounds so I shut it down all of a sudden. I am still recovering from it. Still don't know if it is good decision, very tempting to contact him again.

But I am sure I'll get over him.

 

[imee_ooi]

38.6 to 54

Thanks a lot deusa for your reply.

Before I made this decision (out of defense mechanism). I had another prediction which is 38.6 to 54. I think if I didn't make the step to cut, I might have been comfortable with the situation as "second wife" indicated in 54 the marring maiden.

38.6 might be the initial defensive mechanism. I lose that defense after some meetings with him and enveloped myself with being in love. But in the last meeting, some words from him, little gesture reminds me of my past wounds so I shut it down all of a sudden. I am still recovering from it. Still don't know if it is good decision, very tempting to contact him again.

But I am sure I'll get over him.

 

[Trojina]

I had a very special encounter with a man who is 15 years old than me. It was in the most unexpected place: the subway. Before that I don't believe in "love at first sight", but after this encounter, I believe in it. From the first moment I knew he is a married man, with 2 children. There is such special attraction between us that made me feel if I'd meet him 10 or 20 years earlier, if I was born a bit earlier, or he later, he'd be the one.

I wonder how many other 'special encounters' he's had with other ladies who aren't his wife ? This really does sound, and from the rest of your post, like a guy who is smooth, has charm, knows all the things to say, knows how to make you feel special so he can get what he wants and you've been taken in. I can guarantee you won't be the first extramarital fling he's had.

Afterwards we met up and saw each other for several times. For him staying as a clandestine love affair is comfortable as soon as I won't disturb his evenings and weekends. I decide to cut the relationship and ask him to not contact me anymore, because I know he'll not divorce, and I do not want to suffer from being with a man who is not available.

Good ! You could not possibly retain any self respect at all if you fitted in with his little 'clandestine' proposal. How horrible. What a liar ! He's lying to his wife and imagines you have such pitifully low self esteem, such low self worth, you would settle for seeing him working hours no evenings and weekends ! Bloody Hell I didn't think there were women left in the world who would still even contemplate this position.

After I took this decision, I feel very very sad..., it has been such long time I do not meet a special person like him (who reminds of me of my first boyfriend) and I can not stop thinking about him, even it only last for 2 weeks and it sounds ...... crazy.

Well it's a shame you are sad but you are making the right decision . This guy is just a predator who has sucked you in and he's a liar and not a good person at all. How can he be , he has a wife and kids at home and is willing to betray them and betray you so he can get what he wants.

What can 53.6 to 39 reveal ?

You realize you still have a heart capable of great feeling and you take that heart and fly away with it far far away from this horrible man so you can give it one day to someone who is worthy of it.


As I said be aware he will undoubtedly have done this with countless other women he met on the subway or else where. He'll know you think it's all romantic but there is no romance for him if he won't see you evening and weekends. That's not romance that's manipulation. Don't forget he is lying to his wife and betraying her and the children do you want to be part of that ? That's not love that's someone using you for their own gratification. For goodness sake don't continue with him, if you do that makes you a liar too because then you betray his wife and kids too.

You don't even need to consult the I Ching about this it's obviously a really bad idea to keep seeing him and a really good idea to stop seeing him.

 

[equinox]

I understand why Trojina is thinking how she is thinking and of course the whole constellation reads like it's better to run as fast as can you can.
But I totally feel with you and I understand that it is easy to fall into such a situation. Because chemistry between people doesn't care if one of them is married, too young, too old or what kind of attributes that are inappropriate you want to add...
And okay, he betrayed his wife 2 weeks which is bad but this can happen if one is is olverwhelmed by his own feelings and didn't reflect on it yet. It's bad to cheat, yes. But my judgement would be harsher if he betrayed his wife months or even years. And even if the constellations seems to be one of the oldest clichees -- you can just guess, but never know if it mee_ooi is his first fling or not.
38.6 suggests at least that he is not as bad as he appears to be.
I am not very experienced with 53.6, but as much as I know it suggests indeed, that you are able to get over him and even that you could gain a kind of new strength and wisdom initiated by this situation. And I also would encourage you NOT to be his extramarital, clandestine fling, because it would hurt you and other concerned people a lot. It's his responsibility to make a clear decision and to live with the consequences. Or you are the one making a decision, like you already did.
Never ever engage in a partnership in which you are not cherished and absolutely wanted.

 

[moss elk]

Hexagram 53.6 :
[video=youtube_share;OVpfwmAF3SM]https://youtu.be/OVpfwmAF3SM[/video]

 

[rosada]

I am not clear what you asked when you received the answer 53.6 - 39 but it says to me that this man is married - 39. Confined - and this prevented your relationship from going any further (53.6, the courtship had reached it's peak).

I hope you will be able to quickly put this man out of your mind. One of the side effects of becoming acquainted with the I Ching is that while it is a tremendous blessing to have it's wisdom to help guide us, this wisdom helps us to see things from a wider perspective and that means we can no longer avoid recognizing our own responsibility in creating any suffering in our lives.. You say you knew from the beginning this was a married man with children. While a young ignorant girl might be able to forgive herself for participating in an adulterous relationship, by taking up the study of the I Ching you have shown your soul's desire to evolve far beyond that common level and you were given the insight to walk away from what would have surely been a tragic mistake. Once you meet the I Ching you know too much to ever have been happy going that route. So... while it might have been pleasant for a little while - or even a lifetime - to enjoy this fling, ultimately you would have realized your role in any suffering your actions caused and come to experience great shame and disappointment.

Whew! You got out just in time!

 

[deusa]

I am going to tell you something: i make it a POINT not to see married men in any possible romatic context.
Ok, we cannot control our feelings. But we can control our actions.
I am alone for a long time, now. And I met a married man who was/is FASCINATED by me. He wants to divorce and is in a pretty sour situation at home. But still i refused to see him. We texted for a while but even that felt weird, wrong, felt like a lie, so I cut it (he thinks he cut it, but it was me... let it be, I don't need him to think it was me. It is ok he thinks he did it).
I think of him everyday. But I also think that if he will be free one day, maybe I will want something. But not like this. Not married.
If he is good for me, he will sort himself out. Otherwise he isn't good for me. Natural selection.

 

[Liselle]

Before I made this decision (out of defense mechanism). I had another prediction which is 38.6 to 54. I think if I didn't make the step to cut, I might have been comfortable with the situation as "second wife" indicated in 54 the marring maiden.

38.6 might be the initial defensive mechanism. I lose that defense after some meetings with him and enveloped myself with being in love. But in the last meeting, some words from him, little gesture reminds me of my past wounds so I shut it down all of a sudden. I am still recovering from it. Still don't know if it is good decision, very tempting to contact him again.

But I am sure I'll get over him.

I agree with what everyone's said here and that you've made the right decision, but I can also see how 38.6 could be confusing.

'Opposed, alone.
Seeing pigs covered in muck,
The chariot loaded with devils.
At first drawing the bow,
Then relaxing the bow.
Not robbers at all, but matrimonial allies.
Going on meets the rain, and so there is good fortune.'

It does say that whatever-it-is is a "matrimonial ally," not a "robber."

In context that probably means that letting him go is the ally, when you might have been thinking more in terms of it robbing you of his company...is that true?

I just think if I'd gotten this line I might very well have been confused and/or made the wrong decision. A person probably has to be very careful about what's what in 38.6, and why, and how, and putting everything in its right slot.

I mean, even with the benefit of seeing what everyone else has said, and agreeing with them, I'm still confused.

The bow and arrow itself is confusing. Usually when I see this line I think something like: "What's approaching me is an enemy coming to hurt me - better kill it with this arrow before it can - but wait, it's not an enemy after all, it's a friend - don't shoot!"

But in this context, is it more like: an arrow is to catch something with, so you're drawing the bow to catch it, but then you realize you probably shouldn't catch it, so you release the bow? Where "releasing the bow" = "letting go of this relationship"?

See how confused I am? lol (Despite, again, agreeing with everyone that you're making the right decision.)

 

[Liselle]

Also, I might normally see "pigs covered in muck" / "devil" as friends in disguise or friends that are unrecognizable because they're covered in mud.

But in this case, everyone including Imee is clear that this man is actually devilish (I mean, not necessarily that he's a completely horrible person, just that he's someone you (Imee) shouldn't be involved with).

But then, out the window flies my normal interpretation?

Or - is the correct angle not "devil = this man," but "devil = giving up this man," sort of as I wondered in the other post?

...Imee, I just looked again, and saw that you didn't tell us what your actual question was for either of these readings. That might clear the whole thing up.

What were your questions, exactly?

 

[equinox]

I agree with what everyone's said here and that you've made the right decision, but I can also see how 38.6 could be confusing.

Maybe it simply means, that it's not like imee_ooi and everybody thinks, that he is superficial enough to see it like that:

For him staying as a clandestine love affair is comfortable as soon as I won't disturb his evenings and weekends.

Maybe he is a good person at heart and really has feelings for her and the situation was far from being convenient for him, but even more like hell?
We are all just humans and it is definitely possible that you fall for somebody head over heels while you are married and have children. That doesn't make you a pig or a devil.

But please, imee_ooi, do not take my words as an encouragement to
a) suffer silently in a shakespearean way, hoping he will decide for you eventually
b) keep up a secret love affair full of lies and throwing away your dignity and let him and others throw away their dignity.

Don't do that -- I just want to remember that things are not always as black and white as they appear.
Maybe 38.6 (edit: in connection with 53.6) is saying, that your lesson is to let him got WITHOUT devaluing his motifs regarding your relationship. I know that this makes it even harder: to know that the chemistry is overwhelmingly good, the feelings are probably true and reciprocated-- but outer circumstances are simply against it.

Keep your dignity, be straight, fair to others and self-loving. Live your life and let him go if he can't give you a position in his life that makes you (and his other beloved ones) feel respected and appreciated -- if he is meant to be in your life, he will come back one way or another. But don't wait for it. It would be a waste of the little time we have.

 

[Trojina]

But I totally feel with you and I understand that it is easy to fall into such a situation. Because chemistry between people doesn't care if one of them is married, too young, too old or what kind of attributes that are inappropriate you want to add...

Being married is not an 'attribute' it's a vow, a decision based on trust. It is not at all similar to the being too old/young etc etc. One doesn't choose to get old or be young, one does choose to marry and have children.

Also people really do not have to be at the mercy of their chemistry. If they are then probably getting married was not such a good idea. You seem to think that if a person has feelings they simply cannot help what they do. If that was the case then there would be point in marrying at all.

Maybe he is a good person at heart and really has feelings for her and the situation was far from being convenient for him, but even more like hell?
We are all just humans and it is definitely possible that you fall for somebody head over heels while you are married and have children. That doesn't make you a pig or a devil.

It may be possible, well of course it's possible, it doesn't mean you have to seek to have a clandestine affair and if you do have a clandestine affair then at least have the decency to have a proper one with some real passion. This 'no evenings and weekends' is hardly passion talking.

You really think a guy who picks her up in a subway and tells her he cannot see her at evenings and weekends cares about her welfare ?

Don't do that -- I just want to remember that things are not always as black and white as they appear.
Maybe 38.6 is saying, that your lesson is to let him got WITHOUT devaluing his motifs regarding your relationship. I know that this makes it even harder: to know that the chemistry is overwhelmingly good, the feelings are probably true and reciprocated-- but outer circumstances are simply against it.

How do you think feelings are reciprocated when he won't see her evenings or weekends ?

I just think if I'd gotten this line I might very well have been confused and/or made the wrong decision. A person probably has to be very careful about what's what in 38.6, and why, and how, and putting everything in its right slot.

Sorry but how confusing can it be that a man is married with children to think of ? I mean that is the bottom line, that is the fact. It's not like a line from the I Ching make it all okay just to go ahead with deceiving and hurting people is it.

If he has such feelings he would need to leave his wife and consent to seeing immee at weekends and evenings. Taking his way, keeping both his wife and immee is gutless, he wants to keep both world's separate.


I don't think there's much ambiguity here and also I agree with Rosada that both parties are responsible. If they have an affair then immee is as much at fault as he is because she is then part of people being hurt and betrayed. For that reason I do not see how immee can even be contemplating the idea that she hasn't made the right decision. Why would she choose to see a married man with children, deceive his wife, deceive his kids and deceive herself, when he can't even see her at evenings and weekends.

 

[Trojina]

I'm afraid my previous post is off topic because it is more opinion that readings. But then other posts have been opinion too.

Perhaps we should stick to the reading or rather you can all stick to the reading. I think I've said everything I wanted to about this so I will leave it to you.

 

[equinox]

Also people really do not have to be at the mercy of their chemistry. If they are then probably getting married was not such a good idea. You seem to think that if a person has feelings they simply cannot help what they do.

No, I don't think like that -- I tend to believe in free will to a certain grade. Otherwise I wouldn't have pointed out repeatedly, that I find it a bad idea to keep up this love affair.
Your view on morals seems to be more strict, mine more mild. (edit: it may appear like I have no principles, but that's not true, I just don't think it's helpful to be unforgiving)
I think both of our opinions have their truth and I hope imee_oi will find some empowerment in both of them.

It may be possible, well of course it's possible, it doesn't mean you have to seek to have a clandestine affair and if you do have a clandestine affair then at least have the decency to have a proper one with some real passion. This 'no evenings and weekends' is hardly passion talking.

Yes, you are right, it's bad; but this is the ugly truth of every secret, extramarital fling -- it's not necesseraly because of a lack of passion, but maybe because of the limiting circumstances. It's a position without any dignity for the "mistress". That's also one of the reasons I do in no way recommend to keep it up.

Edit: and it's not just an opinion, I tried to interpret 38.6 and this line is in my reception saying that somebody/something here is demonized.

 

[Trojina]

No I don't think you are without principle but I don't share your sympathies.

I know you tried to interpret 38.6.

Of course we don't really know, as Liselle said I think, what the actual question was that 38.6 was an answer to. Backtracking

Thanks a lot deusa for your reply.

Before I made this decision (out of defense mechanism). I had another prediction which is 38.6 to 54. I think if I didn't make the step to cut, I might have been comfortable with the situation as "second wife" indicated in 54 the marring maiden.

So the decision to quit with him was made only for self defence, not because she thought her position morally questionable. Okay. She then had 'another prediction' which was 'I think if I didn't make the step to cut' and the answer was if she didn't 'make the step to cut' 38.6>54. Well yes the 54 is pretty literal, she'd be second wife. So it seems then if she doesn't make the step to cut she is doing 38.6 ? I'm not even attempting to interpret given I cannot comprehend how she would find it even remotely feasible to contemplate going on with him. I'm just highlighting it isn't totally clear really what 38.6 was the answer to.

For example the 'pigs covered in muck' in 38.6 could possibly apply to her fears about losing him. Losing him might look like pigs/demons but it isn't. I'm not saying that's how I'd take it but OTOH I don't think it's clear how to take it, since it looks like she asked what if she kept on seeing him and if that's really not going to happen 38.6 might possibly be a 'don't worry this isn't as bad as it feels'. That interpretation is a bit of a stretch though.

Anyway given the strength of my POV there is no point for me to discuss the readings. No offence intended. :bows:

 

[deusa]

POV? What is it?

 

[Trojina]

Point of view

 

[Liselle]

Trojina, no one here, including Imee, has suggested Imee continue the affair, either using their own opinion / common sense, or via reading interpretation. I haven't detected a whiff of that, only some attempt to recognize that good people can make mistakes and so forth. (Edited: "mistake" might even be the wrong word, depending on what Yi was trying to say.)

The "no evenings/weekends" thing - I see your point, that on the one hand he said he cares about Imee but on the other hand he retained this self-protective instinct, and so is he or isn't he just out to have his cake and eat it too. I even halfway agreed, but upon a lot of re-thinking, we probably don't know enough to know.

As for my posts, I was mostly just trying to sort out the various parts and pieces of 38.6. I'd really like to know the exact questions Imee asked, so hopefully she'll tell us.

 

[Liselle]

I mean, I once made a fool of myself over someone, and was (still am) very ashamed of it once I got over the fellow, even though no actual affair took place. Yi helped me understand a lot of things about it, including the purpose it served for me, and that some good came out of it for the man.

 

[equinox]

@Trojina

No offense taken! :bows:
It's obviously an highly controversial topic.

@Liselle
Same here