56.3.5 > 12 - case study

[Samgirl]

Ok, I've been studying a little bit today and I would like to share my interpretation and make some questions if they come while I writing this.

Question: description of current situation between two people
Oracle: 56.3.5 > 12

56: current situation shows a quest for finding new circumstances that feel right, to feel nourished.

Nuclear hex. 28: current situation arises from rigid structures that are forced to change shape.

Line 3: what was believed, the environment that used to provide a sense of safety vanishes, creating insecurity.
Line 5: however, continuing in this direction brings progress, promotion and praise.

I am not sure how to read hexagram 12 in this case. 12 is about being standstill, heaven and earth moving away. I liked Richmond's comments that talks about rigidity of our identity, the roles we play, stances we habitually take up. Taking it from this place, I see Hex. 12 as the details of what nuclear 28 was talking about.

I didn't analyse yet the trigrams and nuclear trigrams because my head hurts at this moment. I am amazed for how much more I've seen by looking at the reading with a little... method.

Is there anything else that could be looked at? Do you see anything that hurts your eyes in the way I worked with the reading?

I'll keep studying but I will always appreciate your help.

Sam

PS: I loved the thread about 56.5 (I am still confused as to where the pheasant went though.

 

[maremaria]

Line 3: what was believed, the environment that used to provide a sense of safety vanishes, creating insecurity.

Just a cooment about 56.3
Once I got 56.3 and reading W/B was terrified. But Lise’s comments made a lot of since to me.
“When a dangerous task has to be accomplished, it is better to burn one’s ships. Fear is strong, but without a refuge it is easier to cope with. When troops start marching to the war, they remove their camp, so the decision is definite.”

There was also a favorite song of mine that was telling the same thing. One went in a new place (love , life etc) and was saying “ I’m burning my ships, don’t let me to leave.(go back) “

I could relate to that situation. Me, a stranger in the strange land without a shelter or servants. Scary !!! There were times that I wanted to go to the port take my ship and return to my already known safety place. But that old place was not really provided any shelter or didn’t served any purpose anymore. My old home is not my home anymore, the new one is not yet home.

... and the song ends with that :
By stubbornness and madness
I will live in this land
till i find water
because I belong here.

 

[meng]

Question: description of current situation between two people
Oracle: 56.2.5 > 12

Lines 3 and 5 or 2 and 5?

Sam, I think it's better to not even consider such things as a nuclear trigram and hexagram or fanyao, at least until after you have contemplated the essential structures of primary hex and lines, and the relating or resulting hex. Especially at the beginning it can serve to confuse more than clarify.

 

[Samgirl]

Lines 3 and 5 or 2 and 5?

Sam, I think it's better to not even consider such things as a nuclear trigram and hexagram or fanyao, at least until after you have contemplated the essential structures of primary hex and lines, and the relating or resulting hex. Especially at the beginning it can serve to confuse more than clarify.

Oh... I just corrected it. It is line 3.

 

[Samgirl]

Just a cooment about 56.3
Once I got 56.3 and reading W/B was terrified. But Lise’s comments made a lot of since to me.
“When a dangerous task has to be accomplished, it is better to burn one’s ships. Fear is strong, but without a refuge it is easier to cope with. When troops start marching to the war, they remove their camp, so the decision is definite.”

There was also a favorite song of mine that was telling the same thing. One went in a new place (love , life etc) and was saying “ I’m burning my ships, don’t let me to leave.(go back) “

I could relate to that situation. Me, a stranger in the strange land without a shelter or servants. Scary !!! There were times that I wanted to go to the port take my ship and return to my already known safety place. But that old place was not really provided any shelter or didn’t served any purpose anymore. My old home is not my home anymore, the new one is not yet home.

... and the song ends with that :
By stubbornness and madness
I will live in this land
till i find water
because I belong here.

I read LiSe's comments as well. And I can relate completely to your story (so unusual, huh?). At first, the reading scared me but soon I saw the exact description of the situation from "my side". I am also a foreigner in a strange land, I hesitated but finally I'm burning my ships. And I feel that I am at a stage where I might be "accepted" in this new environment, like finding my place in this new land, and stopping my wandering.

About line 3, I also read from Richmond's comments on this and he talks about losing one's beliefs and principles (the old structures) and feeling insecure. I think this goes very well along with LiSe's comments. Richmond's says about line 5 that we stop wandering here (lose the arrow) because we find a source source of nourishment (the pheasant), this creates an established presence and gives recognition. I think your song is very adequate to this reading.

About what I saw in the reading, as I said before, I can see clearly the situation from my point of view, or how it is affecting me. This result made me think about readings when we asked about things that relate to other people. I wonder if what we receive is always based on our perspective of things... I just got a flash of Carl Sagan's explanation about dimensions (I posted it before) when I was thinking on this...

Hexagram 12 still makes me think.

 

[meng]

Just for grins...

Line 3: This is similar to a naval crew scuttling/sinking their ship to keep it from falling into their enemy's hands. Then they may at least escape with their lives, and become prisoners, in line 4, where they are at least fed and their travel is free, though their hearts are not glad. If perchance the leader is skilled in diplomacy, he may even win the favor of the victorious captain (remember Hogan's Heroes?), and gain an assignment, in line 5. However, if he's not extremely careful, he will either lose his head or bed fed to the sharks.

Arg, matey!

 

[Samgirl]

Just for grins...

Line 3: This is similar to a naval crew scuttling/sinking their ship to keep it from falling into their enemy's hands. Then they may at least escape with their lives, and become prisoners, in line 4, where they are at least fed and their travel is free, though their hearts are not glad. If perchance the leader is skilled in diplomacy, he may even win the favor of the victorious captain (remember Hogan's Heroes?), and gain an assignment, in line 5. However, if he's not extremely careful, he will either lose his head or bed fed to the sharks.

Arg, matey!

This is an interesting story... it seems that our hero here is at the edge of death at any moment, like wandering through a hostile land or situation. Perhaps the danger than line 3 talks about is that we might take the wandering as a scary process, now that we don't have anything to go back for safety.

 

[maremaria]

Just for grins...

Line 3: This is similar to a naval crew scuttling/sinking their ship to keep it from falling into their enemy's hands. Then they may at least escape with their lives, and become prisoners, in line 4, where they are at least fed and their travel is free, though their hearts are not glad. If perchance the leader is skilled in diplomacy, he may even win the favor of the victorious captain (remember Hogan's Heroes?), and gain an assignment, in line 5. However, if he's not extremely careful, he will either lose his head or bed fed to the sharks.

Arg, matey!

OMG !!! What have I done !!!

I want my ships back

 

[maremaria]

This is an interesting story... it seems that our hero here is at the edge of death at any moment, like wandering through a hostile land or situation. Perhaps the danger than line 3 talks about is that we might take the wandering as a scary process, now that we don't have anything to go back for safety.

Yes, I see it that way too . But sometimes we have to take that risk, someothers not. Its a choice . But when we say yes there is no way to turn back the time , if things go wrong.

 

[Samgirl]

Yes, I see it that way too . But sometimes we have to take that risk, someothers not. Its a choice . But when we say yes there is no way to turn back the time , if things go wrong.

Yeah. I think so too. I just checked Bradford's and Wilhelm comments on this line and they talk about the danger as coming from the wanderer attitude. The wanderer burns the inn but only then realizes the harm. Now he's alone in his wandering, so it becomes dangerous.

I am trying to see how these comments and LiSe and Richmond's go together... any idea?

 

[Samgirl]

I just read both lines from Bradford's and he sums up both lines as: the wanderer loses his inn but gains a mansion thanks to his good behaviour.

So, line 3 manifests the emotions: insecurity for burning the ships, carelessness for burning the inn without consider consequences.

The position of line 5 is central, is the organization, the common good: he finds praise and recognition because of his behaviour. He is accepted as part of the organization.

 

[jesed]

Hi Sam

Just in case the comment could be useful

Sam, I think it's better to not even consider such things as a nuclear trigram and hexagram or fanyao, at least until after you have contemplated the essential structures of primary hex and lines, and the relating or resulting hex. Especially at the beginning it can serve to confuse more than clarify.

Agree¡ To know more not always implies to understand better

I would said, from your reading:
Something has happened within the relationship between October 1st and November 1st, (most posibly some kind of dispute), that made the whole relation moved from clarity onto uncertain fields: Lack of comunication, each one feeling isolated from the other like strangers, and defensive mood.
It is necesary to recognice and understand what happened then, in order to solve the confict before it can become a greater fire (read the text of the Image from hex 56) and the relation faces the risk to fall apart.
December may bring the oportunities to rebuilt bridges of comunication, if they act with fairness and decisiveness in the seek of union.

Best wishes

 

[jesed]

ps
Of course, there are other aproaches, wich would said you should focus only in line 5 of hex 56

 

[Samgirl]

Hi Sam

Just in case the comment could be useful

Agree¡ To know more not always implies to understand better

I would said, from your reading:
Something has happened within the relationship between October 1st and November 1st, (most posibly some kind of dispute), that made the whole relation moved from clarity onto uncertain fields: Lack of comunication, each one feeling isolated from the other like strangers, and defensive mood.
It is necesary to recognice and understand what happened then, in order to solve the confict before it can become a greater fire (read the text of the Image from hex 56) and the relation faces the risk to fall apart.
December may bring the oportunities to rebuilt bridges of comunication, if they act with fairness and decisiveness in the seek of union.

Best wishes

Thank you, Jesed. Totally agree with you. I know I am a beginner but I am not scared of making mistakes if the consequence is that someone notices it and tells me about it - then I learn. I took this reading as a case study to play with what I learning rather than the reading itself and well, my way of learning on everything is just jumping in - I really don't mind making mistakes.

Thanks about the comments for the reading. It gives another dimension. It made me think... We haven't had any dispute at all and October has been the month when we got closer than ever. Believe me, I am not in self-denial and I really appreciate your reading, but there is no conflict between us (as far as I know, of course). I realized that it was time to finish a very important cycle of my life that, in its time, it helped me to "belong", to find a "resting place" when I just moved to this country (a clear 56.2 situation). It wasn't a dilemma for me. I knew what I had to do, but it has been scary anyway. So, I burned my ships and looked around and noticed that I was totally by my own now (56.3). At the same time, a new situation was presented by this relationship (56.5?), totally unexpected: I was proposed to do something that would change drastically my current life -among these changes, curiously this new thing would "insert" me within the locals for real this time, and also, we expressed our care for each other (and I dare to say love) for the first time. All this happened during the last week of October.

This is how the situation is, and when I choose this reading was because I thought I had enough information to take it as a case study, so I could concentrate on it, dissect it, practice my understanding about nuclear hexagrams, trigrams, lines, yin, yang, etc. Still, it surprised me, because it described my side so well that I understood it better. I asked for a description of the current situation between us and I am the wanderer for sure... I am not only entering into a new path with this guy but I am also the foreigner who is being accepted by the locals.

Coming back to the study, I am stil wondering for Hexagram 12, because 56.5 talks about "in the end this brings both praise and office", so I wonder is if 12 is talking about the state of what is provoking the 56 situation -in reality, if I talk about myself, I was feeling 12 (and 28) until I decided to "burn the ships".

 

[Samgirl]

Something has happened within the relationship between October 1st and November 1st, (most posibly some kind of dispute), that made the whole relation moved from clarity onto uncertain fields: Lack of comunication, each one feeling isolated from the other like strangers, and defensive mood.

Ok, I just remember that there was an occasion where this could be the scenario. It was resolved quickly though. It wasn't a dispute but a misunderstanding... because I was writing to him in another language using Google translate... and you can imagine ... We clarified it when we met later... I hope.

 

[Trojina]

Coming back to the study, I am stil wondering for Hexagram 12, because 56.5 talks about "in the end this brings both praise and office", so I wonder is if 12 is talking about the state of what is provoking the 56 situation -in reality, if I talk about myself, I was feeling 12 (and 28) until I decided to "burn the ships".

Could be. Could also be looking at it in the simplest possible way 'A traveller (56) is at a standstill (12).' This suggests to me in relation to your original question this isn't a situation you settle in, you are a traveller who has stopped/got stuck on their journey.

 

[meng]

Hi Sam,

A consideration for 12 could be the time in-between going and coming, or between coming and going, like an ebb tide. Not necessarily a bad thing, but neither an immediate time of significant progress. If you identify with earth (below), it is a time of grounding yourself, of dealing realistically with your life. If you identify with heaven (above), it is a time for creative thinking and exploring potentials. If you identify with both, though it may not feel as if they currently are working together, as in 11, they will at some point, but now it is as though each wanders in its own way.

 

[meng]

 

[Samgirl]

Powerful image, Bruce. Beautiful and eloquent. I love the pictures on the website.

Your comment about 12 are quite interesting to dive on. Thank you.

 

[Samgirl]

Could be. Could also be looking at it in the simplest possible way 'A traveller (56) is at a standstill (12).' This suggests to me in relation to your original question this isn't a situation you settle in, you are a traveller who has stopped/got stuck on their journey.

I think that this comment complements Bruce's. I finally see it!