56. Lu / The Wanderer

[rodaki]

hi Trojan,
I know the line sounds pretty dramatic, but it has never turned out to be like that . . on the other hand I had really auspicious lines turning out really disastrous because I failed to see what they relied upon . .
this one feels like sth flares up but maybe there is a way to avoid the burn out . . maybe taking care of the grounding details of 62, tending to the attachment? I think I'm still stuck in the cow idea . . (mumble, mumble . .)

Frank K.
lol! no, definitely doing the cleaning, taking care of the mess
or maybe it depends on how the Wanderer feels -is it time to settle?
I'm thinking that maybe in 57 one carves out a niche

and a question for Frank R. and Mike
I did the reading too but I'm a bit hesitant . .
have you found your reading helpful/resonant and on what level?
I read it again and again, but I don't know what to think of it . .

 

[my_key]

Hi Rodaki
The Richmond text for me makes this line come alive.
It's perhaps about death and rebirth, going with the flow. Getting the most of every moment by being in the now. Allowing the new experiences to come from within, rather than creating a sense of being dragged around from pillar to post in search of new experiences in our outer reality.

The advanced transcription gave a bit of flesh to the oracle for me, plus there was a good pdf on the site that explains teh leels that this is working on. It uses words like Cosmic and Galactic and 2012.

Perhaps you might like to try feeling about it rather than thinking about it. Stick with the dreamspell it gives you and it might be insightful for you.

Mike

 

[fkegan]

Hi Frank

As Bowie alluded - "Time lies waiting in the wings. He speaks of senseless things , his trip is you and me, boy"; or something like that

I checked out your X ray technique - Again not sure I could follow what you had on your website. A worked example may be good, or a few pictures....a picture paints a thousand word so they say. Hex 33 sounds appropriate - learning success is in yielding to our circumstances. Finding new things we had missed before because of our singlemindedness of purpose. Take off those blinkers !!!! I have a job lot for sell if anyone would like to buy

Materials science is the poor relation of metallurgy, or so my Prof use to tell me. Or was it the other way round? Titanium has a great strength to weight ratio - I don't know about cold war combat aircraft, but I hardly know I'm wearing my wristwatch.


Take Care

Mike

Hi Mikey,
I had a hard enough time putting my X-Ray Eye technique online at all. It is powerful without limit. As to examples try these which explain what happened on election day from 1980 on: http://www.stars-n-dice.com/electionresults.html

Metallurgy is the general study of metal engineering. Material Science is the interdisciplinary study of material qua material which includes metallurgy and other symbolic perspectives upon why stuff acts as it does. This was all 40 years ago when it was a novel breakthrough. But as Western thought sees more abstract and symbolic as higher but engineers tend to react badly to theoretical scientists it could have been either way for your professor.

Rodaki,
I realize for you it was clearly chore time; however, the line at least in Taoist perspective also offered you the opportunity to make a break for the open sea and Tahiti dreams. In the perspective you state, then it just meant a focus upon making the transition to the Next which would be massive, rolling coasters for all cups and mugs and strict controls over the liquids on board.

Hex 57 being the 7 on the Decad of the Thunder strike to the heart is the negative x-axis or the wind that blows stuff around mostly and thus only gets awesome and impressive over centuries or hurricanes. Hex 58 as positive x axis is then the deep, deep lake (two of them on top of each other) that gives rise to hydro-electric power or in ancient terms could come loose and flood the fields or keep them verdant through a long drought. Fluid power immediately available.

Dr. Frank

 

[rosada]

Murder, mayhem, fighting in the streets? My work here is through...
.."Gently" slipping out of town..on to 57..

 

[rodaki]

last man standing :bag:

Mike thank you for pointing out the extended version, it made things more legible -the first version ended with " I am a galactic activation portal enter me"
also found this site with more links
not sure abt its value but it looks interesting . .

dr Frank thank you for your comments -I can't say I see everything clearly but hopefully I'll do in due time. Looking forward to understanding 57!

see you all in The Gentle

 

[Trojina]

yes it told me i was an intergalactic portal too.. .

 

[rodaki]

yes, that was weird

 

[frank_r]

Thank you

Red magnetic moon


Maria

Hello Maria and Mike and Rodaki,

Severall years ago I made a sort of a system to convert Mayan signs to hexagrams.

Maria, A red magnetic moon has a connection with hexagram 25.
And your next mayan birthday is 31 july 2009.

Frank R - great site. Apparently I'm a Red Planetary Serpent... much more classy than a lizard.

Take Care

Mike

Hallo Mike,

Red planetary serpant has a connection with hexagram 57. (Rosada started this one today!)
Your next mayan birthday will be 23 januari 2010.

and a question for Frank R. and Mike
I did the reading too but I'm a bit hesitant . .
have you found your reading helpful/resonant and on what level?
I read it again and again, but I don't know what to think of it . .

Hello Rodaki. Yes, it can be very mental those readings. But there are also other sides where you can read the astrology signs, and usually then you feel the connection a lot better. Personally I also have not a real connection with this text. This one works , at least for me, better. http://www.astrodreamadvisor.com/free_mayan_readings.html

Frank

 

[maremaria]

Hello Maria and Mike and Rodaki,

Maria, A red magnetic moon has a connection with hexagram 25.
And your next mayan birthday is 31 july 2009.

Frank

Thats interesting. Still have not a connection with my 25 side, but i'm working on it.

Next month I have birthday ? ompom:
Ordering a cake. Don't forget to buy me presents (kidding)

Thanks Frank

 

[charly]

... i wonder if something got lost in translation...?

Hi, Rosada:

First of all, congratulations for your grandson!!!

Now, I believe that the chinese text apports some understanding:

鳥niao3: bird /
焚fen2: to burn /
其qi2: 's / his / her / its / theirs / that / such /
巢chao2: nest /

旅 lu3: brigade // guest // journey / trip / travel /
人 ren2: man / person / people /
先 xian1: early / prior / former / first /
笑 xiao4: laugh / smile /
後 hou4: after /
號 hao4: to roar / to cry /
咷 tao2: to wail /

喪 sang4: mourning / funeral // painful loss /
牛 niu2: ox / cow / bull / bovine cattle /
于 yu2: at / to /
易 yi4: change // easy / simple // YI country /

凶 xiong1: fierce / terrible / ominous /

​

The BIRD BURNS HIS NEST.
W/B:«The bird's nest burns up.»

The BRIGANTS FIRST LAUGHT, AFTER they ROAR and WAIL.
W/B:«The wanderer laughs at first, then must needs lament and weep.»

LOST OXEN AT CHANGE / EASE / YI COUNTRY
W/B:«Through carelessness he loses his cow.»

TERRIBLE
W/B:«Misfortune.»

​

W/B version twisted the sense of the first paragraph: it's the bird that burns his own nest, not an accident happened to the bird's nest.

W/B enphasized necessary consequence laugh → lament.

W/B inserted «Through carelessness» not in the chinese text, they omit «at YI» and supposed that the OX, whose sexual identity is unknown, is a COW.

The rendering of 易 yi4 open some alternatives:

• CHANGE (the name of the book): look for the key at another ox/cow in the Book of Change, or maybe there is an implicit change, transaction or choice, to lose something in the choice.
  
• EASE: having made an easy choice, not the proper way, having behave badly.
  
• COUNTRY OF YI: related with the story of the Shang's ancestor, maybe a folk story or a common place, something like to say «remember what happened to the guy that lost his oxen at YI», maybe he didn't know how to behave at forign lands.

Maybe the key resides in who is the piromaniac bird?

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Thanks Charly!
Some other folks have also mentioned my grandson and sent good wishes for my anniversary. Thank you, friends!

My story for what happened the day we posted 56.6:

The bird's nest burns up.
My hair was looking like a bird's nest so I got it all cut off.

The wanderer laughs at first,
Big mistake, I know, but when my husband saw me did he have to burst out laughing?

Then must need's lament and weep.
Through carelessness he loses his cow.
Old Bessy here did not appreciate it.

Misfortune.
He (almost) had to sleep on the couch.

 

[rodaki]

Maybe the key resides in who is the piromaniac bird?

hmmm . .

I think I got an idea abt this bird
-but the Humble Wind gently took it away . .
I'll follow the trail . .

 

[fkegan]

Hi Charly,

Gia-Fu also rendered this line with "the bird burns its nest" which does imply a pyromaniac avian. I suspect the intent is use an image, like that Chinese ideogram for "not" that is composed of stacked logs and fire burning them up. Everything implied by the notion of the birds nest being negated in a philosophical analogy not a veterinary psychopathology.

Hi Rodaki,

I am getting clearer in my descriptions and structural analysis, I hope. Try out hex 57...

Dr. Frank

 

[charly]

Gia-Fu also rendered this line with "the bird burns its nest" which does imply a pyromaniac avian. I suspect the intent is use an image, like that Chinese ideogram for "not" that is composed of stacked logs and fire burning them up. Everything implied by the notion of the birds nest being negated in a philosophical analogy not a veterinary psychopathology.

Hi, Frank:

Of course, nothing about vets, The Bird is a person, I believe:

The BIRD BURNS HIS NEST
_____________________________

The Guy burns his own nest.​

We are the GUYS quite able of burning our own nest. We are the BRIGANTS.

From the point of view of the General Command, the 旅人 Lu-Ren can be soldiers, nothing noble, mere infantry, maybe special task forces, say RESOURCES.

But from the point of view of the local population they are BRIGANTS, almost BANDITS, they, for lust of booty, can destroy even the land that supports them, even the place that could become his own HOME.

This sort of wanderers begin enjoying quick results, but will get the HATE of people and use to end BADLY(1).

Wise wanderers behave different, they often become RENEGADES, seduced by the strange peoples discovered, they end even marrying native GIRLS.

From what sort of BIRD we choose to be depends the prognostication: HORRIBLE or no so.

Maybe WE are who need the vets:

ALL THE BEASTS TOGETHER

Children of the Camp are we,
Serving each in his degree;
Children of the yoke and goad,
Pack and harness, pad and load.

See our line across the plain,
Like a heel-rope bent again,
Reaching, writhing, rolling far,
Sweeping all away to war!

While the men that walk beside,
Dusty, silent, heavy-eyed,
Cannot tell why we or they
March and suffer day by day.

Children of the Camp are we...

​

From: The Jungle Book by Rudyard Kipling
at: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/236/236-h/236-h.htm

This is the reason why I'm prone to simpathize with animals like pheasants, hawks and others, WE are THEY.

But this is another story...

Yours,

Charly

______________________________
(1) This reminds me Agamemnon fetching the slave-girl that belonged to Achiles in the booty sharing, he also laugh first and regret later. Maybe Dora can add a greek connection.

 

[charly]

hmmm . .
I think I got an idea abt this bird...

Hi, Dora:

Maybe the same BIRD that lost the COW, maybe without knowing what he had lost.

Of course wanderers don't use to go with a cow behind them, the cow must be a metaphor (1).

WHAT'S BEHIND THE COW IMAGE​

• A great GIFT of happiness, luck, wealth and LOVE, as for old indian culture.
• An image of the ancient Goddess of Fertility
• The image of the Grat Mother, mother in chinese depicts an EXUBERANT LADY(2) (3).
• The MODEST COW, well edowed but not arrogant.
• The ADAPTABLE COW, not rigid, not rigidly moral, not legalist, an UNMERITED GIFT generously granted.

牛niu2 really means oxen, cattle or bovine cattle, the name of the Cow is 母牛, MOTHER COW, there is also 乳牛 MILK COW.

牛niu2 is also the name of Sagittarius.

Maybe in Zhou times the BIRD could become some pejorative because the Shang's totem was a bird. But the COW continued being the image of people women, noble women, Princess, even Goddess, say the SPICE OF LIFE.

FEW MATTERS THE BIRD.

Yours,

Charly



_____________________________
(1) Wanderers use to go with a bitting dog behind them, maybe remorses:

From: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Jean_Dodal_Tarot_trump_Fool.jpg

(2) In chinese the word for MOTHER 母mǔ, mú: mother; female elders, sounds like the VOICE of the COW, the old character depicts ...

​

A woman 女 with nipples...

From: http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=母&submitButton1=Etymology

(3) Of course to be exuberant is proper of cows:

exuberant ... 1459, from L. exuberantem "overabundance," prp. of exuberare "be abundant, grow luxuriously," from ex- "thoroughly" + uberare "be fruitful," related to uber "udder," from PIE base *udhr- (see udder).
from: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=exuberant&searchmode=none

 

[fkegan]

Hi Charly,
That would fit nicely, crows or vultures, used as metaphor for nomadic gangs swooping down upon villagers who burn the crops and huts in mad abandon and then get word organized army forces are coming after them and now they have nowhere to take refuge or feed themselves as they are about to be brought to justice. That is a great image for hex 56.6

Frank

 

[Trojina]

Hi, Dora:




(3) Of course to be exuberant is proper of cows:

well i never heard the word 'exuberant' used of a cow before...but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr5eeaknirQ i never met one like this...actually I'd be quite glad to lose this one

 

[rodaki]

hi Charly

thank you for further explaining :bows:

(3) Of course to be exuberant is proper of cows:
exuberant ... 1459, from L. exuberantem "overabundance," prp. of exuberare "be abundant, grow luxuriously," from ex- "thoroughly" + uberare "be fruitful," related to uber "udder," from PIE base *udhr- (see udder).
from: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...earchmode=none

I think I found how 'exuberant' relates to cows . . it goes a little bit further in the root of the word
. . I don't think it is used for cows that much but it is related in a sense

udder
O.E. udder "milk gland of a cow, goat, etc.," from P.Gmc. *udr- (cf. O.Fris., M.Du. uder, O.H.G. utar, Ger. Euter, and, with unexplained change of consonant, O.N. jugr), from PIE *udhr- (cf. Skt. udhar, Gk. outhar, L. uber "udder").

(again from etymonline.com)


funnily, an exuberant cow also remind me of a dancing one, or a laughing one, or better, one with butterflies around her ears
I guess a productive and safe cow would be a happy one

 

[Trojina]

i think it goes to show you get limited meanings/sense of language from dictionarys...

If you just read a dictionary you'd have no idea how language was really used at any point in time

As all who have gone to a foreign country armed only with a dictionary will know

 

[rosada]

Noting how the holocaust of 56.6 proceeds right after the meeting, the proper introduction, in 56.5 . It's as if when the two energies, yin and yang, finally do meet it's explosive. Could "The bird's next burns up" have a sexual connotation?

r.

 

[charly]

i think it goes to show you get limited meanings/sense of language from dictionarys...

If you just read a dictionary you'd have no idea how language was really used at any point in time

As all who have gone to a foreign country armed only with a dictionary will know

Trojan:

I don't know people going to foreign countries only with a dictionary, all the people that i know use to keep clothes, teeth brushes...

Some people go to foreign countries by force, anothers go driven by their own dreams, in search of fortune.

​

But how can somebody have an idea of how the language was really used?

I don't only use dictionaries for understanding the YI. I also read another translations, some of them considered authoritative, Legge, Wilhelm/Baynes, Blofeld, Lynn, Kunst, Shaughnessy, Rutt ...

I use to test my renderings with chinese authors like Wu Jing-Nuan, Jou Tsung-Hwa, Kerson Huang, Chong Lu-Sheng ...

I couldn't speak with any survivor from Shang or Zhou times.

But nothing is more similar to a human person that another human person. People from different cultures share the same folk stories, religious ideas, social prejudices, the same anathomy and brain engineering, the same dreams... (1)

All them like luck, money, love...

Different laguages share expressive resources, figures, methaphors, all the languajes have variants, all have slangs ... (2)

Maybe I have offended you with some of my bad jokes, but, trust me, it was unwillingly.

The guy that wrote «A naked woman in the darkness» (3) has died (4), I understand him without having talk with him, not only because he wrote in my onw language but because we share the same human nature. People born in english speaking countries also undestand him.

Yours,

Charly

__________________
(1) And of course, sexual drives. It's said in Mencius «... eating and f_cking, that's the human nature...»
(2) all the languages have bad words.
(3) http://www.poesi.as/mb86b08006.htm
(4) http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/20/arts/20benedetti.html

 

[Trojina]

Trojan:

I don't know people going to foreign countries only with a dictionary, all the people that i know use to keep clothes, teeth brushes...

[/url]

i didn't mean literally only a dictionary..i mean having no other appreciation/knowledge of the language or the culture and under the impression that a dictionary will provide an adequate gateway to both..which of course it isn't...

 

[my_key]

Better late than never........
Cow medicine relates to contentment.
So in 56.6 is this what has been lost through carelessness.

 

[charly]

Better late than never........
Cow medicine relates to contentment.
So in 56.6 is this what has been lost through carelessness.

Hi, Mike:

Do you mean that the poor COW had lost her MEDICINE? Did she use it for contentment? The cow had lost her husband?

Say, the lost was the BULL not the COW.

Maybe the chinese lost cow had a connection with ancient Egypt hyeroglyphs:

Sound sign for mt. Determinative for phallus ... man-like, man ... donkey ... bull ...

Determinative and Ideogram for ... phallus ... seed ... man ... husband...
​

From: Wikipedia. List of hieroglyphs/D
At:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_hieroglyphs/D

Bull, husband, almost the same hyeroglyph. (1)

Yours,

Charly


________________________________
(1) Any similarity with real facts is mere coincidence. Don´t you believe so?

 

[my_key]

Hi Charlie

I'm not sure I was going as deep as hyeroglyphs. Perhaps thats a mistake on my part. Nothing like a piece of phallus worship to get the mind juices working and certainly in my experience bulls and husbands can be difficult to seperate at times.

The step from 56 into 57 is intreguing me and it's something that keeps coming back to me in the articules I am reading now. My train of thought was that 56.6 is like the point of return where the wanderer, having wandered gets a realisation that what he has lost, the thing that started him on his nomadic journey, was contentment. Perhaps, even the bull-headedness started him off down the journey, he couldn't see the beauty of what was really around already. He sowed a lot of seed in an effort to replace something that had never really been lost in the first place, if only that had been recognised. Hence the cirumstances in the text around the pain of the loss and how simple it actually would have been not to have suffered that loss.

Mike

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Charlie

I'm not sure I was going as deep as hyeroglyphs. Perhaps thats a mistake on my part. Nothing like a piece of phallus worship to get the mind juices working and certainly in my experience bulls and husbands can be difficult to seperate at times.

It should be noted that ancient Chinese cultures, despite what Karlgren and some others might have tried to "see" in old literary references, which don't go back in time far enough, were almost completely devoid of sexual references in their art and artifacts. Phallic symbols are, for all intents and purposes, non-existent in pottery and jade carvings, which are older than oracle bone inscriptions. It appears that only in excavated pottery of the Yangshao culture some moulded vulvae are to be found, which gives some indication that those ancient cultures were matriarchal in nature.

Obviously, with the advent of the Shang, that changed. Still, depiction of genitalia in ancient Chinese art, other than in anecdotal findings buried in the bulk of Chinese archeology, unlike that in Western and African cultures, is pretty much absent.

As a further thought, I would venture to say that sexual implications in Yin-Yang Theory are incidental and on equal footing with other polarities and are not, and were not, a seed of the theory or its driving priority.

 

[my_key]

Thanks Luis.
Always glad to be brought out of fantasy land with a bump.

Mike

 

[charly]

... Chinese cultures, despite what Karlgren and some others might have tried to "see" in old literary references...

Luis:

Do you actually believe that KARLGREN willingly biased his own findings trying to see things? Maybe another dirty obssessive guy?

Phallic symbols are, for all intents and purposes, non-existent in pottery and jade carvings, which are older than oracle bone inscriptions. It appears that only in excavated pottery of the Yangshao culture some moulded vulvae are to be found, which gives some indication that those ancient cultures were matriarchal in nature.

Relative lack or remnants, monuments o documents isn't a proof of absence given the hard censorship excersed not only over ideas but also over people and even things (like books) all the long way to our times.

Let's imagine:

Imagine that two millenia or so in the future, literary experts attempt to collect the glories of our literature. Most of our paper writings have crumbled into dust or used for kindling; all our digital files are long gone or indecipherable. English is a dead language and many of the cultural references are a complete puzzle to them. They have a strange jumble of popular and high literature: one partial summary of of the episodes of a saga called 'Star Trek', a fragment of an archive of fan fiction about a warrior princess named Xena, some quotes from various authors extracted from anthologies written three hundred years from now, and a few cryptic bits of poetry from somebody named Shakespeare, who was apparently very highly regarded, and wrote in an archaic dialect: specifically, one complete sonnet, a couple of soliloquies and a few random lines from his plays...

From: The Poetry of Sappho: Introduction By J.B Hare
At: http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/sappho/saphintr.htm

Obviously, with the advent of the Shang, that changed (1). Still, depiction of genitalia in ancient Chinese art, other than in anecdotal findings buried in the bulk of Chinese archeology, unlike that in Western and African cultures, is pretty much absent.

Prehistory is too long and history too short. Little remnants of prehistory can depict ideas , feelings and believes deeply rooted in the human nature. I believe that ancient chinese people were not too different from westerners or africans, mere human beings. And like that they had to have sex an love in their minds and hearts.

As a further thought, I would venture to say that sexual implications in Yin-Yang Theory are incidental and on equal footing with other polarities and are not, and were not, a seed of the theory or its driving priority.

Of course, Ying-Yang theory is not descriptive phisiology nor bedchamber art, but sexual imagery pregnates all human activities, appearing in litterary language as in the selective language of crafts.

Un abrazo,


Charly
______________________________
(1) Fortunately for women some things change:

​

See: A people’s sexual revolution in China
At: http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2007/03/20/sex-in-china/

 

[charly]

Thanks Luis.
Always glad to be brought out of fantasy land with a bump.

Mike

Hi, Mike:

I'm affraid that among things that truly belong to the realm of fantasy are idealized pictures of history in general and of chinese history in this particular.

I apologize if I had not understand you well. Maybe the step from H.56 to H.57 is from WANDERING to GETTING HOME.

Maybe the TRAVELLER finally came back to his own home or maybe he found his true home in strange lands. Maybe geting home is always at the end of the long juorney.

旅 lu3, before meaning TRIP, TRAVEL, JOURNEY or TRAVELLER, meant a military unit like a BRIGADE or also something like a GUEST, related to HOSPITALITY received in strange lands.

At least for many GUESTS to be AT HOME means to reunite with the PREDESTINED WOMAN and to be LIKE AT HOME means to get NATIVE WOMEN. Some guests end far from their native houses, marrying native women, becoming like the people that will be no more STRANGE for them.

It's no fantasy, it happened to much travellers, soldiers, renegades even holy people. Even maybe some of the own diviners that wrote the YI and for whom the YI was written were guests at the courts that received them for reason of craftmanship or also diversity.

When somebody says us DON'T IMAGINE, he is telling us DON'T THINK at imaginary things, but all the things that we think are imaginary. Even science (1) works with imagination.


Best regards,

Charly


____________________________
(1) For a scientific approach there is the China report from the Kinsey Institute:
Page: http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/ccies/cn.php
Pdf: http://www.iub.edu/~kinsey/ccies/pdf/ccies-china.pdf

 

[Sparhawk]

Hola Charly,

Luis:

Do you actually believe that KARLGREN willingly biased his own findings trying to see things? Maybe another dirty obssessive guy?

I don't remember mentioning anything about sexual obsessions on the part of Karlgren or anybody else. The archeological evidence, post Karlgren, have proven many of his contemporary assumptions wrong.

Relative lack or remnants, monuments o documents isn't a proof of absence given the hard censorship excersed not only over ideas but also over people and even things (like books) all the long way to our times.

Any censorship that might have existed has nothing to do with stuff that was buried millennia before institutional censorship existed and found the light of day relatively recently.

Prehistory is too long and history too short. Little remnants of prehistory can depict ideas , feelings and believes deeply rooted in the human nature. I believe that ancient chinese people were not too different from westerners or africans, mere human beings. And like that they had to have sex an love in their minds and hearts.

Yes, they were comparatively different from those other cultures. Prehistory, specially Chinese Neolithic, is rich in artifacts and meaning. Meaning is not exclusively attached to literary references (so called history). When I say that the Ancient Chinese culture, unlike that of other parts of the ancient world, has left almost no cultural sexual references is because it is a simple fact that can be found researching.

Of course, Ying-Yang theory is not descriptive phisiology nor bedchamber art, but sexual imagery pregnates all human activities, appearing in litterary language as in the selective language of crafts.

Nope, for the most part, not in ancient (and not so ancient) China. Actually, there are books written exclusively about that curious fact.

Un abrazo,