58 to 25

[exnihilo]

This is an odd one. I had a very, very strong premonition that I would see someone dear to me in the future. This is someone whom I haven't seen in ages and who doesn't live near me:

"What did that mean?" Her answer was 58.2.6 to 25

What I'm really wondering about here is hex 58. 58 is about communication and exchange between people. Do you other I Chingers here agree that 58 seems to match my premonition? Additionally, this is a member of the opposite sex. Is there an element of eros here in this hex? I don't have any experience with 58 that I can remember but I have a sneaking hunch that something like this is going to happen between us.

 

[frank]

Hi Exnihilo,

Do you want to expand about the answer or about the divination discussion :-D? At least 58 could be about communication yes, but perhaps also about premonition, intermingled with hope... Like a poet who is inspired by looking to it's own image or the image of the situation or subject he wants to discribe by looking in the pool's reflection... And as lines 2 & 6 are changing the confrontation could have mean something in the way of learning... (hex. 4)... Did you ask this question before, or did have old hopes with this lady or man? At least try to stay calm and yourself, as hex. 25 is telling you...

Huggie,
Frank

 

[exnihilo]

Hi Frank,

I was more interested in the divination discussion regarding the two hexes.

(I KNOW that I will see this person again. That's a given. This was a very weird and very strong premonition and I don't have them very often. When I got it there was no emotion involved and I was completely puzzled as to how this would happen so I'm 100% positive it wasn't wishful thinking.)

With 58 I felt immediately that the Yi was confirming the premonition since 58 is about communication, meeting. I think 25 is about relaxing and letting it just happen.

 

[exnihilo]

I should also add that this is not a former lover or anyone that I've been romantically involved with.

 

[martin]

It looks like hexagram 25 reflects the question that you had or what the question was about.
A thunderbolt from a clear sky, that's a nice image of intuitive knowing.
It comes from nowhere, or at least so it seems, there is no conscious reasoning that leads up to it. You know, period. You "see".

What about 58? If 25 reflects the question, or what it was about, then 58 is the answer.
I'm not sure that it means that you will actually meet. I think what it means, first of all, is that you have translated this knowing that is kind of abstract or subtle (it is of the spirit) into more concrete images and sensations that involve joy, pleasure and yes, maybe eros.
So the I Ching is in fact saying: you have received this intuitive knowing on a "higher" plane and then you have brought it down to earth in a certain way.

Does that make sense to you?

 

[martin]

It's interesting, by the way, that the line positions (2 and 6) show the same pattern.
Line 6 represents the spirit (or the "sage") and line 2 the belly center, earthly joy, pleasure and eros.

 

[exnihilo]

Hi Martin,

I've had premonitions before but they usually have a more subtle quality to them. So subtle that I often don't see that it's a premonition until it happens. This was different. It had a very detached, very clear feeling about it.

Back to 25:

I see that one of Bradford Hatcher's key words for this hex is "inner voices". That seems to line up with a detached, intuitive knowing.

58 has always been a difficult hex for me. I recently did a toss for a friend regarding her health. She has been feeling pretty lousy lately. "Why is J. feeling ill?" The response was 17.2 to 58. I didn't know what it meant but she instantly understood. She had been partying a bit too much with a much younger friend and felt that this had run her down. I saw the relating 58.2 as being about the fun they were having together. SO, that's the only experience about 58.2 I have to go on here. Line 6 is a stumper though. "Drawn by satisfaction" (BH) sounds like it's about hedonism or letting joy and pleasure rule one's life.

 

[exnihilo]

I'm back. I just looked at Karcher and his understanding of 58.6 seems quite different.

Protracted opening
Six above, protracted opening
Not yet shining indeed

COMMENTARY
"Don't let go of this opportunity for connection. Draw it out as far as possible. Express yourself. Keep the possibilities open. You will be very sorry if you simply let go. This could be a lasting source of joy and pleasure."

Wilhelm's commetary on the other hand sounds like a description of a drug addict.

Legge's: "The topmost SIX, divided, shows the pleasure of its subject in leading and attracting others."

 

[martin]

Yes, line 6 is a strange animal. Only a factual statement and no auspice. I sometimes wonder if there was an auspice in older texts that was somehow lost. But perhaps this is quite fitting for a "sage" that watches our earthly pleasures from a detached viewpoint, as a pure witness. It doesn't affect her, neither in a positive nor in a negative way and she doesn't judge it.
Has the lake become perfectly calm here, a pure mirror?
Is this line an invitation to seek that mirror consciousness in ourselves?
I suspect it is. How does it all look if you watch is as the spirit?