59 to 14

[mindful_seeker]

I'm not sure what to do with this one. There are four changing lines. 59 with changing 1,3,4,5 then goes into being 14. There seems to be disagreement if 59 is communication, reunion, dissolution, selfishness, etc. I do not know.

Sill learning,
mindful seeker

 

[yly2pg1]

This is a interesting reading.

(1)What is the main theme in your mind?
(2)Slowly guide yourself thru with asking yourself with honest questions (normally most concern you?)

 

[yly2pg1]

59.1.3.4.5 ->14

Seem to me you have "forget" your interest to help a situation ...

 

[jerryd]

Taoist Master Alfred Huang, offers this from his book "The Complete I Ching" I will paraphrase his method handed down by Master Yin.

1. If there are two moving lines-one yin and one yang-consult only the yin moving line.
2. If the two moving lines are both yin or yang, consult the lower one.
3.If there are 3 moving lines, consult only the middle one.
4. If thereare 4 moving lines consult only the upper of the 2 nonmoving lines,
5. If there are 5 moving lines, consult only the nonmoving line.
6. If all six lines are moving, consult the Decision of the new gua,the approached gua.
7. Since there is a 7 invisible line in the first and second gua, Qian and Kun, for these consult the seventh Yao Text, called "All Nnines or All Sixes."

I to am learning and I hope this is of some help to you Mindful Seeker. Let us know if it makes sense to do this in your case.

 

[lightofdarkness]

working from a more structured perspective, try

http://www.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/proact.html

tell us what you get.

 

[candid]

Why would anyone discard any part of an answer, especially in such an arbitrary manner? Engage your mind in each line offered, looking at it from different angles. The answers are there.

 

[candid]

Mindful_seeker,

I believe one of the things we must decide is, do we wish to be students of the IC or do we just want easy answers to our life?s challenges? If we wish to be students, we have a long, arduous task set before us which requires us to dig deep into the causes and effects that seem to come to us from without but are actually generated from within ourselves. This ultimately isn?t found in a book or oracle, and definitely not in someone?s interpretations of same. The oracle points only to our own inner workings, and this provides a greater degree of control and understanding of our lives. It?s up to each of us to come to know ourselves. The IC is a profound means to lead us in that direction.

 

[jerryd]

Candid, your defintion of arbitrary would intrest me. Someone who spends 5 years writing a text probably did not even think of this word. I am not criticising but to say off handed learning is to be done through pure trial and error till the developement of ones faculaties meet personal standards is difficult to understand. If All I have is a desire to learn and no idea of the material then how does one learn? Experience is a great teacher but a basic course in theory is helpful, we can always unlearn.
What method did you use to become estute in reading the Oracle? Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[candid]

Jerry,

I didn't at all mean to imply we can't or shouldn't learn from available material or the research others have done. First, I disagree with Alfred Huang's method of reductionism of change lines, regardless where he learned the method or from whom. The methodology is arbitrary. I?d sooner throw a dart at the lines and go with the single one it landed in. But I wouldn?t do that either. I?d read and consider what each line is saying to me, even if they appeared to contradict. My second post was to mindful_Seeker, or anyone who hopes to find simple answers without doing the necessary introspection homework to find the causes behind their personal dilemmas.

 

[jerryd]

Thanks Candid, it does make sense to read and interpert, for the uninitated sometimes its easier to start simplistically and move ahead. I had some difficulty in the beginning and had ro access each line and move into a period of understanding without any for knowledge. Thank you for your help and did not mean to tred on your information to Seeker in any way.

 

[candid]

Jerry,

No treading perceived here. I was merely trying to clarify.

I'm foremost a believer in whatever works, and that goes for Huang's method as well. I just believe it's like giving up the potatoes for sake of the steak. If Yi serves up a meal, I believe we lose out by not digesting it all.

 

[mindful_seeker]

Yly2pg1 - I am not sure I know what it means to "forget" my situation. Do you mean to have some distance from it? The question I asked was for general insight into an interpersonal situation. When I ready the answer (I'm still learning all this) it sounds like there is lots of movement and activity in the situation (because of all the moving lines, and because of what I know about in real life) and I'm guessing that possession, truth, communication, and and forgive is part of what's going on. But this is what I want to see in the situation, and only what I "might" see in the reading. This is why I ask for help.

Jerryd - If I follow the method you describe then my only line to read is 59.6 and this is a terrible line. I don't feel this is true in my situation. But maybe Yi is telling me what I can't see? Is your method conventional thinking about so many moving lines?

Lightofdark - Are you inviting me to ask the same question again? OK. I will report back.

Candid - This is a provocative idea to read all of the changing lines, even though they contradict. Maybe it's true that my situation also is a contradiction. So is life. I do not any longer know what is true. | I'm not sure how to use the Yi to understand my life, or myself. Not sure how to do this yet. To read an answer, and feel it is or is not not correct, and then see what happens in life, is this the road? | The cause behind my answers: I can only assume that my situation is highly creative and chaotic, or else I would not have so many changing lines. I know there has been blocks that are breaking up and beginning to flow, and the answer seems to mirror this. This is exciting. I do not know if the flow is an ending via scattered forces, or if it is noting the beginning of more space and positive movement. How then to use Yi? Do I just wait to see what happens in life? Then I learn what, that I can correctly see where my experience in life, and my self awareness, and what the Yi says interconnect? Is this what Yi is meant to be?

-mindful seeker

 

[mindful_seeker]

Lightofdark - I was given 1 without changes using your link. What does this mean? I think it verifies there is much dynamic energy in my situation.

-mindful seeker

 

[candid]

mindful_Seeker,

Sometimes it?s easiest to imagine having a conversation with the Yi or sage than it is to try and analyze it as a study. So let?s imagine.

You go to the sage and sit under a tree with him. He says ?I can see that you?re really stressed out. You know, seeker, you have a whole lot going for you (14) and there?s a few things you should realize. First, you?re stressed out because you?ve become rigid. It?s like water, your true nature, which has frozen into ice. You can?t really be yourself when you?re not free to flow. So what say you relax and let go of this rigidity, Ok? I mean, learn to trust more in yourself and in God, however you see him or her to be. Now, there?s some specific things I?ll point out to you. With me so far? Good.

(line 1) It?s important that you nip this rigidity at the bud, before you turn into a real ice cube. If you carry unneeded suspicion around with you, it?s going to be a cold, hard road for you in the future.

(line 3) You know, sometimes you have to let go of everything in order to find what is most important in your life. This is a great task, but you have enough strength and wisdom (14) in you to do it. Let it all go!

(line 4) In order to really be free, you must also give up your concerns about how your friends see you. There?s a bigger mission and vision for you (14) than your personal friendships. Think big!

(line 5) Now I realize this is all a bit overwhelming for you right now. And that?s Ok. It will build up like a fever reaches the breaking point. Once this happens you will become recharged with new life, and the world with all its chaos will no longer bind you.

Now go and be the person I know you are (14).?

Does this make the lines a little clearer?

 

[yly2pg1]

Mindful_seeker, generally i mean you may have to put aside your emotional needs for a while. In the final outcome, things will turn out well for all.

 

[lightofdarkness]

Either (a) you felt that the default values were correct for context and text and so just pressed the submit button, or (b) you may have missed the need to select answers other than the default.

If 1, the default, IS the answer then the 'interpersonal' situation is highly competative, singleminded, focused on a particular - you feel that the situation is about facts, what was/is/will-be, and you are being proactive. The same goes for both text and context. Heavy Metal.

01 begats 01 - the competitiveness can be 'fun', the mediation involved aids in developing one's skills but things can get 'mindless' if it continues too long and in that mindlessness someone can get 'burnt'.

Given the three questions it is possible to change things by focusing on a particular to change and so re-direct where things are going.

For example, a focus in context on facts will elicit a bias to a focus on solving the issues through replacement, coexisting is not considered an option, but maybe it should be considered. Change that line and you get 44 - and so a change of tak where we move from being strongly competitive to being persuasive/seductive where room is allowed for coexisting (but on your terms ;-)) - IOW to 'move on' from 01, play with line changes and focus on following the path you prefer.

 

[jerryd]

Mindful_seeker this is not a conventional method, nor is it my method, it is just "A" method avilable to those who chose to use it. I am not so sure we can apply what is generally call conventionality to any of the I Ching methods unless you are willing to suscribe and use only a singular method. As it is pointed out by many on this sight we will all develope our way of reading and intuiting what is avilable to us and do it in the way which makes sense to us as readers of Yi. Life is about making choices and this is just one of many.

 

[mindful_seeker]

I am overwhelmed with the possibilities here. I am not sure I am ready to be such a serious student, but I am very curious.

Lightofdark - I am not sure if I used your website the proper way. There were two places to pose a question. I only filled out the top section and then SUBMIT. I didn't use the bottom section. Does this mean I did it wrong? It would be helpful to receive more instructions. Also, more instruction not only on the use, but on the meaning of "facts" and such. I really just guessed because I wasn't sure. I'm still new at all this and so I'm grateful for your help.

Candid - the conversation method sounds easy enough. Only problem is I'm unsure how to adapt to my situation. I suppose this is part of the learning. I usually ask questions for advice, for giving me a picture of what's currently going on in a situation, or sometimes I try prophecy about a situation but this rarely works. I guess learning how to better ask questions would be important to interpreting the answer.

-mindful seeker

 

[lightofdarkness]

(1) one is supposed to consider both sections prior to submit - unless one accepts the defaults.
(2) dont worry about it, I will re-do the page to make it a bity clearer ;-)

Chris.