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62. Hsiao Kuo / Preponderance of the Small

rodaki

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thank you Rosada :)

Sorry for insisting with the bird –thing :bag: but I have a reading full of birds and don’t know not yet what to make of it. :eek: .... or them, lol


Thanks for insisting on that Maria . . .
In reading each and every great wise post that came through it one finds oneself across mysteries that feel evermore hidden yet obviously there . .

Coincidences are like that too . . Synchronicity, these random, fleeting moments, can make the mundane world move as if following some humming, ever present rhythm. Coming across them begs the question of meaning . . what would such things signify, why do they happen? And why do they fall to our attention in this way?

Are they the evidence of grander structures or the follies of faith? . . and if they have a meaning, would that fall within my grasp?

Maybe we aren't birds to fly, but birds can fly over our waking eyes just in time for us to catch a glimpse of them, maybe a falling feather to keep while our feet stay firmly on the ground of the actual . . for in the end, it's good to see, it's us that ask them the questions and seek for answers, that look for meaning in this ever-changing landscape and it's up to us to let go of the question and follow what resonates most -in hope that we are following our better self . .


:bows:
 
M

maremaria

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thanks you all.
:eek:
sorry for not being able to respond at the moment. Crazy day today at the office (grrr) . Will read and respond as soon as I go home late in the evening... ( again grrrrmph !!)
 

Trojina

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I saw this ad on TV last night

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGIo2yOaIxo

these birds are certainly 62ing...love the bird on the escalator lol

The last frame of the clip seems very 62.6, seems the flying car passes the bird by !
 
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rosada

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I think it's fitting that 62.6 is concluding with an awareness of the scattering of energies, like birds flying off in the clouds, like office workers buzzing by and distracting us, we can only focus on a thing for so long, and then we lose our interest. Live the moment and then let it go? Or develop the ability to stay interested?
-r
 
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rosada

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I am consciously not moving on to 63 until tomorrow. I want to be sure everyone who wants to post on 62 has the opportunity.
-r
 

charly

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... So not a huge reunion, but a little connection that could lead to something more. Maybe this is the idea, to recognize that life is created by stringing together these Small Details...
-Rosada
Dear Rosada:

When somebody wanders there is always the danger of going astray. Are you joining the lost people thinking that there is MORE THAN ONE WAY?

To string together small details in order to get life is called «uniting the yin with thw yang», an euphemism for a disreputable action.

It occurs to me with all this talk of birds and penises, couldn't something be made of the line "The prince shoots and his him who is in the cave."? ...
Of course, I will work for you in this line and post it assap.


62.5 Connection!
62.6 Stop now. ... Know when good enough is good enough.

To know how an when to connect and how and when to stop is an art. Something learnt by insight and experience.

I think of how fairy tales often end with, "They got married and lived happily ever after." That sounds like 62.5.
But we couldn't be content with "Happily ever after" and so we always asked, "What happened next?!"

It reminds me that I have a quote for you:
The Duke(1) o Zhou is said to have been the author of the Classic of the Rites, which sets out rules for a marriage ceremony but has little or nothing to say about the relations bwetween husband and wife after the ceremony.

魯迅 Lu Xun: the Evolution of Male Sex
[I go to look for the source]

In this essay Lu Xun traces a five stage evolution of male sex:

1) Matriarchad: not knowing father but only mother, it was good for a while.
2) Slavery: clanic wars and women rape, the station of mating ended, women provision never ends.
3) Whoring: the invention of money brings opportunity for fair exchange, all can be bought and sold, even sex, of course. a law of new economy.
4) Marriage «old style»: fathers became the decision makers with help of matchmakers. Men got live property for ever. Chastity or dead.
5) Scientific Chastity: the last stage, sexual desire is ANIMAL LUST, not precondition for love. Marry before love after. Of course men were allowed to have sex without marriage and / or without love.

Nice guy this LU XUN, a man that loved women.

(To be continued)

Yours,

Charly

______________________________
(1) Prince is not the usual translation of gong1, it didn't desgnate the heir of the king, it was the higher feudal title translated as DUKE for comparison with feudal Europe. While the king was a far distant image bearing legal authority, the local lords had the efective control of people. May be that the reason why gong also means MALE / MACHO. It was of course the title of the Duke of Zhou.

Sears says about GONG:
Remnant Primitive, the speaking from the mouth 厶 that is released 八 and made public
THE GUY THAT GIVE THE ORDERS, no matters if legally or not, the one that has effectively the force.

Maybe you can see the speaking and the mouth in these ancient characters:
s00797.gif
L29774.gif
b01017.gif
b01068.gif
j01453.gif
j01460.gif

All the images are from ChineseEtymology.Org
http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=公&submitButton1=Etymology
The two from the left are SEAL, the two central are BRONZE, the two from the right are ORACLE BONE characters.

The fourth character is curious, I read it so:
→ two + child below two curved strokes depicting a channel
→ TWIN KIDS BORN FROM THE SAME CHANNEL, say BROTHERS, GEMINIS !

Maybe the GONG is not only the one that has the VOICE for GIVING ORDERS, but the one that has TWINS AS A BRAND OF POWER.

Say, the STRONG MAN or even the STRONG WOMAN, the one that has STRENGHT for make people to OBEY.

Ch.:bows:

P.D.:
Some stuff for 62.5
Morning Cloud, Evening Rain
http://wordswithoutborders.org/article/morning-cloud-evening-rain/
Ch.
 
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rodaki

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a bit more on Symplegades (hope I'm not boring people out with this)

Symplegades (by Peg Duthie)
http://www.astropoetica.com/columba.html

Thoroughly sick of the wheeze of the sea,
the drone of the wind and the doubts of their captain,
the sailors were ready -- raring to conquer the cliffs.

Strengthened by Athena, their dove became an arrow
humming as sweetly as the strings of Orpheus,
flying knife piercing the malevolent accordion

that had squeezed the breath out of so many ships
and pulverized their treasures. Arrested,
the rocks seethed in silence, while from the bow

of the Argo, the golden-voiced harpist
soothed all aboard into halcyon repose,
charming their dreams with silver-spun chords.



euphemus-and-the-symplegades.jpg

http://jdgraphic.com.au/main/index.php/component/content/article/1-web-design/47-andersenartcomau


740592365_aaf534429b.jpg

Time to Dive
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/12306382@N00/740592365)


. . and how about some music? maybe something from Dire Straits?
 

hilary

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About guo as exceeding... I went all round the houses looking for a good English word to use for 28 and 62. I needed one that captured both the idea of 'going beyond, too far' and also 'crossing the line, transition, passing, passing by'... and the nearest I could come was 'overstepping' as in 'stepping over' but also 'overstepping the mark'. Trouble is, that sounds weird and awkward, and needs a footnote of its own just to explain what meanings of the word are meant to be included - not what you really want in a translation for beginners to use. Then I looked up the etymology of 'exceeding' and found it means 'go beyond'. Wilhelm/Baynes are a long way ahead of me, again. (I settled on 'exceeding' for the hexagram names, and 'going past' in the lines of 62. If there's one word that will do both and still sound like English, I can't find it.)
 
M

meng

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a bit more on Symplegades (hope I'm not boring people out with this)

Not boring me. I love the graphic depiction of the story. I think it captures something important of 62.

Hilary, thanks for your house searching. There's other words, but I don't know any more clear than what you've mentioned. I kinda like overtake, as when a racer passes by a competitor, or when a ship passes by another ship. Overstep, overreach, over-analyze, overachieve, overreact, etc.

Some portions of roads and highways are no passing zones. Not coincidentally, those are most frequently found around the sharp and narrow curbs of mountainous terrain.
 

rosada

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63. Chi / Chi After Completion

63. Chi Chi / After Completion
__ __
_____ above K'AN THE ABYSMAL, WATER
__ __
_____
__ __ below LI THE CLINGING, FIRE
_____
 

rosada

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Wow, that was an interesting mistake.
I thought I was starting a new thread but instead I posted here on 62.6
Seems like a true life example of going too far when it's time to let go and move on.
-rosada
 
M

maremaria

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Yesterday It was an extremely busy day at the office and when go back home I was really exhausted. I ignored that and started reading the latests post because I wanted to respond. Then I stay in front of a MSword file for about one hour trying to put some words down. It was impossible !!! my brain didn’t work . I observed myself pushing to do it . I felt soooo small for not being able to do it. It was frustrating, like the little bird wants to fly up to the sky but can’t see the reality of the situation. That its wings are not ready for that. Trojan’s video with the bird down to earth looking at eagle kite , it’s a nice picture of 62, imo.

Words , images, thought I have read to those posts and my thoughts about 62 came in my mind. Survival, overstepping, put your self in a danger, crossing limits , ignoring inappropriate times to do something big etc.

I’m starting rumbling…lol. But although it’s a trivial example, yesterday while I had to make negotiations with different parts of my self ( they are many :rolleyes: ) wheather I push my self and do what I wanted to do or go to bed and rest become more clear to me. Its not great to be small, its frustrating, but when we are in a place when we are small the key is to better adopt else…. Misfortune. One of the things I couldn’t understand in 62 was stay small in a great way.

Sorry for my late response but I had to exceed in sleeping :eek:

Thank you all for the interesting thought you have shared here.
 

pantherpanther

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thank you Rosada :)




Thanks for insisting on that Maria . . .
In reading each and every great wise post that came through it one finds oneself across mysteries that feel evermore hidden yet obviously there . .

Coincidences are like that too . . Synchronicity, these random, fleeting moments, can make the mundane world move as if following some humming, ever present rhythm. Coming across them begs the question of meaning . . what would such things signify, why do they happen? And why do they fall to our attention in this way?

Are they the evidence of grander structures or the follies of faith? . . and if they have a meaning, would that fall within my grasp?

Maybe we aren't birds to fly, but birds can fly over our waking eyes just in time for us to catch a glimpse of them, maybe a falling feather to keep while our feet stay firmly on the ground of the actual . . for in the end, it's good to see, it's us that ask them the questions and seek for answers, that look for meaning in this ever-changing landscape and it's up to us to let go of the question and follow what resonates most -in hope that we are following our better self . .


:bows:

It is interesting how some attach meaning to synchronicties and images (like the bird) and the text of the I Ching. The notion that we have a "real self," and events in our lives relate to our "real life" in the way we see them is questionable, because often we project a subjective and partial meaning to our perceptions.
Similarly, we attach meaning to the hexgrams, which are metphors and represent processes and situations that are multi-leveled and cannot be understood in terms of words and images alone. They resonate with levels of meaning that cannot be expressed "in words." In this sense the I Ching is a guide and catalyst to a deeper perception.

Hilary's recent blog, "Inner Truth...",on the two hexagrams, 61 and 62, which this and a previous thread have been about I think approaches the I Ching in a way that includes the levels of meaning represented in this wisdom classic .

I approach the I Ching as a guide and catalyst to open to a more inclusive, impartial ,less subjective understanding than the ordinary mind alone cannot approach by itself , that is, without the awareness and cooperation of the body and the feeling ( a combination which is termed the "mind-body" in Eastern teachings). This requires a daily preparation of grounding in one's whole being in the moment, and not being totally in thrall to an imagined "self" (or notions of a "better self" which is after all an "unknown." ) This "better self" is is described in many ways, as by mystics : their writings may be guides as is the I Ching, but how to seek it in practice requires disciplined inner work and gradual development of the understanding through verified experiences. The I Ching provides a map of the journey on all levels, and wisdom to deal with both the sacred and profane.
 

hilary

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Not boring me. I love the graphic depiction of the story. I think it captures something important of 62.

Hilary, thanks for your house searching. There's other words, but I don't know any more clear than what you've mentioned. I kinda like overtake, as when a racer passes by a competitor, or when a ship passes by another ship. Overstep, overreach, over-analyze, overachieve, overreact, etc.

Some portions of roads and highways are no passing zones. Not coincidentally, those are most frequently found around the sharp and narrow curbs of mountainous terrain.

The ideal of 62, as it comes through in the lines, seems to be to connect -to go far enough across the line to carry the message through, or to receive it, but not so far that you miss altogether. Making the crossing in a small, attentive way.

(I think. Lots of angles to look at this one from, though - and Rosada is already across into 63 ;) .)
 

Trojina

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Wow, that was an interesting mistake.
I thought I was starting a new thread but instead I posted here on 62.6
Seems like a true life example of going too far when it's time to let go and move on.
-rosada

(63.1 you started too soon on 63...while 62 is still happening (wilhelm says of 63.1 'this pressing forward at the beginningis not good ;))
 

rosada

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Oops! I think you're on to something. Okay, I'm gonna take it real slow between now - posting the first paragraph - and posting line one of 63!
-rosada
 
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M

meng

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The ideal of 62, as it comes through in the lines, seems to be to connect -to go far enough across the line to carry the message through, or to receive it, but not so far that you miss altogether. Making the crossing in a small, attentive way.

Put a bow on that, I'll take it to go.
 

my_key

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The ideal of 62, as it comes through in the lines, seems to be to connect -to go far enough across the line to carry the message through, or to receive it, but not so far that you miss altogether. Making the crossing in a small, attentive way.

(I think. Lots of angles to look at this one from, though - and Rosada is already across into 63 ;) .)

Hi Hilary
It's interesting that you posted this comment at about the same time as I made some notes in my journal. There I'd likened the journey through Hex 62 as ending up in a learning state of unconsciously competent i.e the small things had struck home (connected) and we don''t need to try to grasp them any more because we already had all that they could give us. If we tried to glean any more from them we would start pushing them away.

Reading what you have written here it would be good to hear whether you see this as the same level. I read what you have written as being at the state of consciously competent - we have connected but still need to be consciously aware of what we are doing to keep the connecting going.

Would you state what you have written ( and what meng has had parcel wrapped - I can see a big pink bow:D) as being more consciously competent or unconsciously competent.....or have I gone and found another wrong tree to bark up?:)
Interested in anyone elses comments as well.
Be Well
Mike
 

hilary

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Oh dear... scraps of pink ribbon scattered everywhere...

I hadn't thought of 62 in these terms before, so to start with it's a bit like wondering what time a triangle is. But anyway... I suppose I do think that the basic idea in 62 is to be consciously competent. A common example given for unconscious competence is an experienced driver - in 62 that driver might find himself in snow and ice.

the small things had struck home (connected) and we don''t need to try to grasp them any more because we already had all that they could give us. If we tried to glean any more from them we would start pushing them away.
Are you thinking of line 6, and the bird leaving? I see what you mean, I think... but that one still seems to me to have 'passed by' competence of any kind. Good to have another possibility to play with, though - like pink ribbon confetti.
 

my_key

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Hmmm...
This is kind of off the cuff, as I'd only made come up with the possibility in my own thinking recently.
Maybe at 62.6 there was an element of unconscious competence a sense going beyond where the ego starts to become complacent....which is perhaps the transition into 63.1. To carry on the current UK weather theme.....I can drive like Jenson Button he says as he glides effortlessly on the snow and ice into the parked car on the other side of the road. It was perhaps the 62.6 line that shaped my thinking. Does 62.6 capture that touch of arrogance? Overstepping the mark of humble modesty acquired at 62.5 - At 62.5 you've got it and then at 62.6 because you've got it and you know you've got it , you start to think you know it, but the very thought of thinking you know it means that you have missed the point.

I'm not sure if that's any clearer:confused:...I'm not even sure if it's clearer for me :bag:. Thanks for cutting the ribbon into confetti. It's so much more fun when the ribbon is confetti, it allows all the pieces to be placed in a multitude of ways.


BTW...What time is a triangle? My guess is that it is sometime After Eight (or is that a square?):D

Mike
 

charly

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...
(To be continued)
...
Rosada:

I owed you the second part. I apologize for delaying so much with 62.5.

Here it goes (W/B uppercase):

mi4: secret / confidential // dense / hard / DENSE
yun2: cloud // alternative form of to say / CLOUDS
bu4: not / no / NO
yu3: rain / RAIN

zi4: from / self / oneself / since / FROM
wo3: I / me / my / we / our / OUR
西 xi1: west / WESTERN
jiao1: region / suburb / TERRITORY

gong1: male animals // duke // public / common / [THE] PRINCE
yi4: to shoot arrows / SHOOTS
qu3: to catch / to take / to fetch // to marry (for men) / to get wife / [AND] HITS
bi3: that / those / HIM WHO IS
zai4: at / in / exist / dwell / IN
xue2: hole / cave // anatomy part / [THE] CAVE

Pretty literal the W/B translation. But what does it mean?

«Dense clouds no rain» [密雲不雨] has become an idiom that means TOO MUCH NOISE WITH LITTLE RESULTS, to threaten but not attacking, maybe since the use in the YI. It looks like a common place, like a formula and is indeed a quotation of H.9 Xiao Chu, Little Pets.

Say, our western neighbors seems to be very dangerous but they cannot scare us.

Why? Because our local ruler (the Gong, the Duke) is quite able to shoot and fetch those dwelling in caves.

Second meanings of shoot and fetch are of course sexual and very rude, to f_ck and catch, something translated as getting a wife, depicts a hand catching a ear (1), has also military associations. Here, I believe, it means to subdue.

Those that dwells in caves were maybe peasants or common people, almost primitives living in rounded homes almost underground. If our duke can subdue our own barbars, how should he have fear of foreigners?. Our duke is brave enough for f_cking them all.

The language is manly and rude, as correspond to military men, but the aim is political, people encouraging himself facing the possibility of being attacked.

Of course, there is another hidden layer for whoever willing to deepen in it. But that's another story.

Yours,


Charly

__________________________
(1) It belongs to the custom of taking a ear from prisoners, corpses or pieces of hunt as means of proof. When applied to women they become mere preys.
取 ...
耳 ear + 又 ... hand/action indicator → compress one's fingers about the ear of an enemy in taking him prisoner, symbolic of military exploits → take; grasp; take away; seize; rob; remove; eliminate → obtain; get (a prize/grade/salary etc.)
From:
An Etymological Dictionary of Chinese Character Interpretations
By Lawrence J. Howell and Hikaru Morimoto
 

rosada

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Ah, Perfect.
NOW we can move on to 63.1....
;) rosada
 
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I've been thinking about 62 and correlating it to the flag at half mast. Does this seem fitting? How I was seeing it is there are all of these deaths, each small that add up to something greater. Our flag, a symbol of our pride gets out of hand and we think we are the only right ones, but there is something larger actually taking place and it is killing people off. I looked up 'half mast' on wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-mast and it starts by saying "This is done in many countries as a symbol of respect, mourning, or distress" - this made sense to me because of the mourning in 62. Although I am not patriotic (because to me it has such militant tones), the flag at half mast moves me. I picture the young people signing up for war, not even being forced to go, but one by one they enlist by the droves. Sad but the respect is in the reality of it.

62_zpse0d785fd.jpg
 

meng

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Half mast, how fitting. As a Quartermaster and qualified signalman, I never made that connection before.

We'd also dip our flag when passing a Naval vessel of another country, and they'd almost always return that same display of respect and courtesy. Particularly with war vessels, extra courtesy is the rule of the road. I know most members won't be able to relate to this, but the most polite place I've ever been to is a gun show. Have to remember, though the path is small, the mountain is large. That's where awe and respect come from. So it's not only the display, though not to underestimate that either, but it's the genuine sense of feeling very small in a very large place.
 
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meng

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Nice to see these Rosada inspired hexagram threads pop up again with fresh thoughts.
 

gene

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I don't know too much about the boat floating down the river, but I thought I might point out on the basis of the first post, that this is in contrast to hexagram sixty one, in which the weak lines are within. The key here is to know how and when we must be soft on the inside but hard in the exterior, and when to be soft outwardly, but within, strong and unswerving. The answer to that question requires a great deal, many lifetimes, of introspection and self analysis. There is a difference in the context in when we be soft inwardly but not outwardly, and vice versa. We are soft within in relating to those people who belong with us. We need to be strong within in relating to people who are in our environment, and that we work with, etc., but at the same time have no inner relationship with us. But the meaning goes far deeper than that, and it is only through daily self analysis that we can really get a clear picture.

Gene
 

gene

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I made the previous comments not realizing that there were several pages of posts which I had missed, so hope I was not too far out of scope of discussion. This, as all the hexagrams, and the book itself, has many different levels of meaning, as some of the posts have suggested. As the posts suggest, there are levels of meaning, most of which even the deepest thinkers do not catch, and some of which many people would deny the existence of. This is true of all "sacred" literature. The literal is just a microcosm, or an allusion, to much deeper meanings. But not only are there deeper meanings, and multiple layers of meaning, but there are also different meanings depending on the context of either what someone is looking for, or what someone is ready to receive. My writing is a little choppy, I am aware, but it should not be dismissed entirely as there is a lot of significance in it.

Gen
 

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