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Devajyoti

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hi.
I found that many people got this one unchanged already.
Its selfexplanatonary to me.
My question was if I will be able to clear my calm in VIP.
VIP is Vipassana meditation and calm is like "big brother watching you" in there, the organisation keeps informations it gets from you when one gets asked in a form or when a teacher ads something.
I never looked in there although I know a teacher felt he could write in there about me.
I always thought this is not for anyone to be bothered and he was not with me and someone else in the same room when we hadd conversations. and he had prejudices. I could not really talk to him.
And therefore I never cared about it but I have to in order to give service again.
Its like a look on the door otherwise.
So, seems like i can do little steps towards my goal. otherwise I would give up meditation. And thats not my intention.
At the moment I am still busy with live tasks other than that but mid may I want to start clearing it.

"For your own unique call to be heard, you need to fly closer to the ground and pay attention to details, creating a more sensitive connection with your world. When you come down to earth in this way, scaling down your aspirations, crossing over in small ways and doing small works, then you enjoy great good fortune."

a bird flying low...

I have a lot of small things to do in future, so there I am.

Like to clean a long street with 10000 moves and just focus on the next move in every moment.

I have to admit the idea of confronting stuff is stressing me out and my mind sometimes is working on "ifs".

But its as well my daily rountine that I am already living I think.
Little steps of earth bound work step by step carrying me on.

Open for associations and ideas.
thanks in advance

aww, I wantet to add my birth ching is 61,5 so its kinda interesting to get 62, its kinda personal.
 

dfreed

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My question was if I will be able to clear my calm in VIP.
It seems that your issues and hence your question are more about this teacher and his organization, and less about if you can 'clear your calm' using Vipassana meditation. Is that correct?

Also, I have been doing vipassana meditation for years, but I've never felt it is like 'big brother watching you in there'. I don't even know what that means really - and I don't really know what 'clearing your calm' means either; so it's difficult to offer anything constructive about your reading.
 

rosada

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Attention to Detail suggests the meditation helps you keep your outer world in order - calm - that you may become more aware of your inner feeling. "When you do things from your soul you feel a river moving inside you - a joy!" - Rumi
 
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Devajyoti

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It seems that your issues and hence your question are more about this teacher and his organization, and less about if you can 'clear your calm' using Vipassana meditation. Is that correct?

Also, I have been doing vipassana meditation for years, but I've never felt it is like 'big brother watching you in there'. I don't even know what that means really - and I don't really know what 'clearing your calm' means either; so it's difficult to offer anything constructive about your reading.
hi dfreed

I am not natural english speaker, so this is a language issue.
"calm" in that organisation is a system where informations are stored.

When I apply for a course in the vip organisation dhamma org

then I give personal information like if I used another technique, if I am used to other healing techniqes or teach them, if I am ill in this way or another and what kind of illness that would be.
For example they want to make sure one does not mix techniques during courses or one is not mentally unstable.
Because everyone needs to be self responsible.
So I once gave service and was ill when I was there but did not say I would take maybe a medication like antibiotikum for 3 days because I decided spontaneously and then the medication went on my stomach which made me run out of a meditation session while I should have been a rolemodel during service and stay from beginning to end. So I did not even tell the teacher and they became suspicious. So he made a note into my calm as well because of an argument and some words I was telling another person.
Calm does not mean to "be calm" there but it means they store infos about you like a hospital or doctor would do too.
 

dfreed

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"calm" in that organisation is a system where informations are stored.

When I apply for a course in the vip organisation dhamma org
Okay, I think that 'calm' might be their computer database about students. I also get that your talking about studying with one of Goenka's teachers, and that his style is very strict - with lots of do's and don't's. And you are also telling us about some problems you had when you were on retreat - something about getting sick while you were there, and either taking or not taking your medication?

But setting all that aside for now, what I still don't understand is, what is your question? Keeping it simple, for example, did you ask:

"Should I do another retreat with dhamma . org?" Or, did you ask ...

"Did I do something wrong while I was on retreat?" Or did you ask,

"Should I give up on meditation?"

Or is it more just a general question about this type of meditation or this group?

Or is it about something else entirely?

What your question is, is what I still do not know or understand.

Regards, D.
 
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Matali

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Hello !
With my French English, I understand "clear my calm" as clarifying my calm, but without big brother ! No body can hurt you when your soul is the boss !
Anyway, meditation shouldn't stress you out, but the mind can... Meditation is peace, quiet. Let go of your mind and breathe. I have a beautiful book (Meditating daily) written by the Venerable Buddhist monk Henepola Gunaratana about Vipassana meditation. I have many books on meditation but I always come back to that one. Reading is like a meditation, so clear and so calm ! And above all, breathe, breathe, breathe 🧘‍♀️
 
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legume

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okay, i found that this is calm. but i don't think vipasanna is like scientology, in the way of keeping your records, afaik they just do it to keep things organised and even keeping those records is more volunteer based. i would understand you worrying about it as "striving upwards", it's unnecessary in this case to worry too much or to project some prejudices on the teacher. 62 advises to ground yourself, stay low, in this case maybe just apply as you normally would, without drawing extra attention to yourself by either trying to rectify something that's already in the past and possibly irrelevant to the present or even just by giving too much attention in your mind to the things you don't want. i experienced 62 sometimes as a lot of small back and forth communication, but i don't think it requires one to prepare or even think about it upfront. so, if you just keep it simple, apply normally, without worrying about past experiences and you ground yourself somehow, then imo you should be accepted for service again. what's a birth ching, btw?
 

Devajyoti

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Okay, I think that 'calm' might be their computer database about students. I also get that your talking about studying with one of Goenka's teachers, and that his style is very strict - with lots of do's and don't's. And you are also telling us about some problems you had when you were on retreat - something about getting sick while you were there, and either taking or not taking your medication?

But setting all that aside for now, what I still don't understand is, what is your question? Keeping it simple, for example, did you ask:

"Should I do another retreat with dhamma . org?" Or, did you ask ...

"Did I do something wrong while I was on retreat?" Or did you ask,

"Should I give up on meditation?"

Or is it more just a general question about this type of meditation or this group?

Or is it about something else entirely?

What your question is, is what I still do not know or understand.

Regards, D.
my question is:
If I dont clear "calm" ( look link below on next comment ) then I cannot give service and therefore only sit 10 day courses.
If I "clear calm" as I intend to do then there is no objection against me to do service and I can give service and apply for even 20 day meditation courses.
And I coul apply for long time service.

This is what I wanted to do: Apply for long time service.
First I had a nice onversation with someone in the center and was looking forward for a place from august on to do long time service ( as a garden manager) but then the same guy wrote me, he did not know there was a note or I would have gotten info earlier and I cannot give any service, not long an not short.
So - I dont even know what is written there and I did not want to look it up at the moment because I feared I might get upset about it out of a reason ( f.e. prejudice ).
Whatever. It should be possible and is recommended that I answer or comment on whatever is written there. Otherwise accept never t give service and never go beyong a 10 ay course.
btw because of this meditation gets harder to do everyday because I am blocking myself out.

( Oh I migth to something wrong )


I am gratefull you guys love meditation as well.

At the moment I am very caught with my moving situation and hard working and I wanna feel the completion of that first because I dont want to mix up my thoughts about the one and the other.
So I am procrastinating the looking up of the notes and commenting on them.

I want to be free as a beginner again and yes...
as someone writes below: I dont give much **** about the past myself. About a little mistake or what. Its just: Why cannot they forgive either?
It frightens me, anger me, ambarrasses me a lot and well... om.
stay .... anitia...

I have the "group sit recording" for one hour from youtube. This one I used to use when sitting my daily practise and everything else was falling into place.

At the moment I have to worry about logistics, human body power, organising work, avoiding bullies, dealing with a egocentered lawyer, dealing with exhaustion and using up my body for the move of a lot of unnecessary stuff which I save for artmaking and creativity, renting cars and luggagebikes, wheatherissues and cold nights, hunger, rest, having some friends, caring about spirituality in general and my persona in some way, dealing with parents and friends of the past, midlifecrisis, new orientation et etc.. just the normal day routine without much in it. eat, sleep, shit, rest, work, get food, eat sleep, shit rest, work, get food organised... having some friends online and seeing my children once a week.

so, then when all the move is done which I hope will happen then I will find myself with myy self made high bed underneath which I build a meditation cabine ( this needs to be built up again at home here )...
which I intended to use in my gardenhouse but wont be able to.

Loosing my garden and having the opportunity in mind to become a gardenmanager long time server in the center instead - this was a good option and others even said so.
And now: Aw, I cant. Because of some f....ed note in that system.

so I looked up a second plan, which I dont like as much because its opportunitreduced when it comes to meditation with others. ( in the center there is at least 3 hours meditation together ) - I would do willing work on organic farms wwoof... on places where I can get with m bike and pendel from there to here for many months to come.
So I will be able to see my chidlren every week and as well work on a farm in nature in a way I love to experience it. Still I would prefer the opportunity for a "career" in avipassana center, which is far in south off country and therefore would restrict me from seeing my children every week, but all 3 months or sometimes more. Going by train.
I would save some money for further education.

so much about my options.
Its okay to do wwoof since I dreamt about it for long as well.
but forgot when I found vipassana.

I guess I better start my daily practise again, stop worrying, do my move and THEN look up that calm note...

thanks!
 

Devajyoti

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okay, i found that this is calm. but i don't think vipasanna is like scientology, in the way of keeping your records, afaik they just do it to keep things organised and even keeping those records is more volunteer based. i would understand you worrying about it as "striving upwards", it's unnecessary in this case to worry too much or to project some prejudices on the teacher. 62 advises to ground yourself, stay low, in this case maybe just apply as you normally would, without drawing extra attention to yourself by either trying to rectify something that's already in the past and possibly irrelevant to the present or even just by giving too much attention in your mind to the things you don't want. i experienced 62 sometimes as a lot of small back and forth communication, but i don't think it requires one to prepare or even think about it upfront. so, if you just keep it simple, apply normally, without worrying about past experiences and you ground yourself somehow, then imo you should be accepted for service again. what's a birth ching, btw?
wel I used to handle it like this and I even made a new "me" - a new name, which is my artist name and even a new date of birth ( which is with some astrological technique and the year I startet to use my artist name still the truth! - so no lie in there ! ) - but then again when I applyed for log time service.

BANG. "you cannot do service"
F..K!
 

Devajyoti

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I even met my teacher when I gave "fist service with artist name!" ...

and it was like "oh he was worried and talked to his colleague and she asked me about it and we agreed that the past is the past! "
She told me to put together my 2 "accounts" as my old me and my artist name me...

and I thought, well all is right. the old teacher saw me doing well and found his worry unnecessary...


but then again: There is nothing like trust.
F..... up system.
Grr.

I dont have another artist name to start anew...
or I need to marry first and get another artist name and start vipassana in far away country.

So then there wont be any note saying: "u cant give service "

but getting married and establishing another name takes years to come. ha.
 

Devajyoti

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btw
birth ching is from a specail book about birth ching I own.

there is an own way to calculate it in a very complicated way with around 10 steps to look up dates in tables and so on.

thats how one finds out.

I was used to that one before I startet to look up ching for questions...
 

Devajyoti

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okay, i found that this is calm. but i don't think vipasanna is like scientology, in the way of keeping your records, afaik they just do it to keep things organised and even keeping those records is more volunteer based. i would understand you worrying about it as "striving upwards", it's unnecessary in this case to worry too much or to project some prejudices on the teacher. 62 advises to ground yourself, stay low, in this case maybe just apply as you normally would, without drawing extra attention to yourself by either trying to rectify something that's already in the past and possibly irrelevant to the present or even just by giving too much attention in your mind to the things you don't want. i experienced 62 sometimes as a lot of small back and forth communication, but i don't think it requires one to prepare or even think about it upfront. so, if you just keep it simple, apply normally, without worrying about past experiences and you ground yourself somehow, then imo you should be accepted for service again. what's a birth ching, btw?
hi again legume!

Of course... striving upwards.

I am about change, anitia... change is always happening anyway.
I have done a lot i the past and still there is the world at odds.
My life is not about me.
My life is about bettering the world in my own way.

Just woke up, sleeping at day, needing darkness.
thinking about "being sherlok".... what if I tell the state: you make sure I get enough fresh veggie and fruit and some protein each day and a place to live in which is aceptable
and I help you to better the town, build some living space for the homeless, tiny houses, bla bla.

but maybe this is just a number too big for me?

I have a lot in petto to complain about what happened to me: i have been stolen from. a lot. I have been bullied and raped and gangbanged. and stuff.

And of course I should not write THAT into my calm.

I feel I have great things to do. I am highly intelligent and I am specialised, I educate myself. But I often fail because there is lack of care and possibilities in the past as well as exhaustion and over volunteering while running against walls. much hot air, much work for nothing real.
And of course I fail because of trauma in the past which IS the experience of being abandoned, having to live in the basement, hunger, violence.
omg.
So I just want to flourish. I want to be. I want to work. I want to be effective. I want success.
yes, EGO.

So what.
I love meditation.
It goes hand in hand.

but yes, its overly restricted.
And I am not allowed to xist.

So I dont want to work against it, I want to work with it.
How can I get IT on my line?

How can I get justice on my line?
 

Devajyoti

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LIsten to what HE says....

This is exactly what I am feeling with this issue... and I would love to communicate the fact that this is so towards them.
But alone being an astrologer myself ( having studied astrology in a private ecademy and educating myself a lot further, still attentive all along )...
is an issue I believe.

Its not accepted to do something else but vipassana like goenka teaches it.
They dont want "other vipassana techniques " I never encountered another one, but I remember I did vipassana already as a child!

And I gave meta every evening when I was a child.

sigh.
 
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legume

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the image of the bird in 62 comes from line 56.6, which then changes to 62. in that line the bird burns down its „resting place” and so the advice in 62 for the bird is to begin anew, stay on the ground, don’t try to strive up to reach heights (volunteering or being of service maybe) straight away. since creating new account created some „unrest” in your situation before i don’t think creating a 3rd one is the advice here (and it was never my advice). i believe what Yi might be saying though is to go back to the beginners course, and from what i’ve seen they usually have more open spaces for returning practitioners on those courses anyway. this way you could still go to the retreat and meditate and possibly meet with the teacher and on the last day discuss the whole issue and say you’d like to volunteer again and ask then how to go about it. this would be „staying low”, imo.
 

Devajyoti

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the image of the bird in 62 comes from line 56.6, which then changes to 62. in that line the bird burns down its „resting place” and so the advice in 62 for the bird is to begin anew, stay on the ground, don’t try to strive up to reach heights (volunteering or being of service maybe) straight away. since creating new account created some „unrest” in your situation before i don’t think creating a 3rd one is the advice here (and it was never my advice). i believe what Yi might be saying though is to go back to the beginners course, and from what i’ve seen they usually have more open spaces for returning practitioners on those courses anyway. this way you could still go to the retreat and meditate and possibly meet with the teacher and on the last day discuss the whole issue and say you’d like to volunteer again and ask then how to go about it. this would be „staying low”, imo.
yeah, that fits my feeling aas well.
I was smiling at your quote of my "idea",,,, haha.
But I have this mail in the inbox or file where I just could look in and see whats there and write a comment. That would be the "onlineversion" of your suggestion. And that was just triggering my fears or whatever, my whatever
 

Devajyoti

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its somehow like feeling to have to face someone from the past where ou have thoughts about but never have been able to talk to.
there is inwards such a feeling like being growing up in puberty when ou feel strange when someone is interested in you. ( I never really dealt with it bak then normally )
 

dfreed

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Devajyoti:

Based on what you've said here, and what I see in Hex. 62, and what I know about Vipassana and Goenka, I do not think that Goenka's meditation or his organization are a good fit for you, at least not how you're going about it.

The translation of Hex. 62 that I use reads:
Right for small matters, not right for large matters.
A flying bird leaves a sound.
Not appropriate to go up; appropriate to go down.

'Right for small matters' - to me this means that meditation should be approached on a personal level first, and not as a grand fix for the planet, nor as magic cure for one's hurts and traumas. The dhamma.org website even says that while vipassana meditation can help heal physical conditions and emotional issues, one should not approach it this way, and doing so is not correct, and may even be harmful.

You've mentioned being bullied, raped and gang-banged, and living with violence and hunger. It makes me wonder if you are looking for this meditation practice to fix or cure your hurt(s) and damage - which I don't think is a good fit for this mediation.

'A flying bird leaves a sound' reminds me of the idea of karma or cause and effect; and that even though the action has already happened - the bird has flown over - there is still a lingering 'sound' perhaps a karmic 'after-affect'.

You talk about being less then honest (maybe even lying?) when filling out the information they ask from you. You talk about using fake names and combining different registrations to, (in your words) 'clear the CALM' . But what are you doing here and why? Are you hiding who you are? Are you not telling them about certain conditions you have or medications you're taking? Are you trying to hide the fact that you left one of the meditation courses, etc.?

It makes me wonder if this is you: a bird leaving behind a bad, and far-less-than-honest noise? To me, being dishonest is not a good fit for practicing meditation or for healing yourself.

Finally we have, appropriate to go down (not up): vipassana meditation as taught by Goenka is very intense 'deep dive' into ourselves, our subconscious, into our unhealed wounds and grief .... It is very much going down. Ideally, it does lead to healing, and to us living more joyful and productive lives, but it takes hard work, and looking inward.

Given what you've said, I wonder if you are trying to make this up-lifting, and only about 'going up'. But that's not how this particular meditation system works - so again, maybe it's not a good fit for you.

As to their CALM database and registration system: based on what little I know, I think that this database is used as a way to keep track of information they feel they need, such as: how many retreats someone has taken, students' medical and mental conditions and medications; their emergency contact info, and perhaps it's a place were teachers keep (and share) notes about a student's progress or how fit (or not) they are for particular aspects of meditation (or if they should even be taking Goenka's courses at all).

Overall, I get the sense that CALM is a useful tool for Goenka's group. For some, however, it may be too much of an invasion of privacy. That's certainly understandable, but no one - including you - is being forced to take Goenka's courses, and there are lots of other vipassana meditation centers that don't keep these kinds of records, so there are lots of other options.

(I would expect that most meditation or healing centers ask about people's medical or mental conditions and also about any medicines they are taking. One, this is practical, in case you get sick and they have to call EMTs; and two, I think the teachers want to be aware of any conditions that someone has (both physical and mental) so they can be aware of what this person is going through or what challenges they might be facing.)

Regards, D
 
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Devajyoti

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hi of course I understand all this and it fits with my thinking.
I made a mistake when I made another name account. But it was encaouraged by a friend.

On the other hand I have been very honest all the time before but did not get a change to get heared by that particular teacher.

On an earlier service I had a back problem and could not sit straight.
So I got told by a very strict teacher, a a women, I must sit straight or leave. But I could not have left when I was ill. All I needed was a painkiller and then I was able to sit straight again.
Of course I needed to change my behaviour, not carrying to heavy stuff in too cold sourrounding, but I could not change that at home.

I was will mentally ill friends, someone who suicided last year.
I always wantet him to come to a course as well and I was fighting for this to be accepted.

When I took that painkiller on that course the mousemanager gave it to me. Other servers took painkillers because of a cold.

I took some and then I coul sit straight again.

I loved going deep.
But last year when the suicide of the father of my older daughter happened and I had been for a short service just in january and never saw him again although he lived two more weeks and even tried to ring at my door but I needed a pause and did not open..
I was then feeling responsible and wrote to them: had not I been there for this short service but had I been home I would have been there for him and maybe saved his live.

I dont take medications or stuff. but in deed I have a hard live.

Always since my youth, its just normal and its not an antidote to meditation.


I had written the teacher a letter asking him to let me do service again.
I never looked into that calm.

the mail was just sent once and I lost it.
I was always identified with doing meditation and wantet to do it again, but when I was fighting to survive with my little garden I had to put it in the line behind.
I lost garden. So I can put another order now in my priorities again.

I never wantet to stay in that garden community forever. I did not like them drinking, smoking, asking for sex and stuff.
Thats why I love vipassana, there is no such sin around.

You understand me wrong.
I created nelli in order to start new,yes and this was accepted and understood by my last female teacher.

when I gave service in oktober, just before I got the message I lost garden.

I cannot change the fact that I had stuff happen to me which I did not like as a child.

And I cannot change the fact that I encountered strange people when I went to my first courses.
First drive that man was strange and I even tld myy first teacher about it and she told him neer to come again to VIP, she did not tell me.
But in the last time I identified with all this because it was my encounter. A man opening his trousers in car when taking me with him to the center suggesting people outside on the restplace would think we have sex, who said it would be sad men and women cannot be mixed there ( when I even did not know yet what it all was about )

I have a good friend from vip. and he knows tht vip is very important for me. he is not judgemental and he himself had difficulties as well. For example he did a mouthrobbery. He is writing he is aged 00 when he writes in the data. He does not want to tell. He wrote a poem for me which is about a ballon flying higher and higher and then falling into its grave.
I thought about it and I told his story longer. about a little girl with papers and pencils writing a wish on the ballon and sending it into the sky and inviting other children to do the same. and of course the ballon would be out of latex so it will be rotten without harming the environment.

He is talking about accenpting bad feelings as well. Which is fear or so.
LIke I feel now. When I work at night.

I am under pressure right now but in some weeks its over.

So I gave room to this not in order to get you judging me and having prejudicesjust in order to ask something, to handle my feelings.

But I know I wont accept people harming me again because I think they had a bad intention from the beginning in garden community. I wont go into detail.

This is over then. I dont need such people. It was a vip teacher who told me to look for better company.

I have not done that harming. I am hard working and I will be hard working in future.

I have never had a problem with hard work except when my bod was broken.

And I dont need medication.

PUNKTUM.

bye, have to work now, at night after some rest which was NEEDED.
 

Devajyoti

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Vipassana was the best that happened to me and alwayys will be. :)
You wont change that with opinions , judgements and prejudices.
I might have written something which makes me vulnerable from ur view, but you dont know me.
 

Devajyoti

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in my environment I am the only person meditation. everyone else laughs about this.

I will find people to share my interest with me.
 

dfreed

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Vipassana was the best that happened to me and alwayys will be. :)
You wont change that with opinions , judgements and prejudices.
I don't know if you are referring to me or not. I don't have any prejudices against you, and I have no opinion about your work ethic. I too find vipassana and insight meditation very useful. But you seem to have quite a bit of conflict around the teachers and how their organization is set up. That's all stuff you shared with us - I'm not making it up.

Therefore, one of my main points is, you don't have to do meditation as strictly as Goenka's group does - there are lots of other vipassana options, and there may be some which are better suited for you.

And as I said, it seems very strange to me that you're talking about fake names and accounts, and about fixing the 'Calm'. I don't know what there is to fix - or how you'd do that without being less than honest.

Besides, if I hear you correctly, you are 'approved' by them to sit 10-day retreats, so why don't you just do that?

You asked for our interpretations of your reading and that's what I have provided to you. Do with it what you will.
 

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I talked to someone in the phone about your answers here and I got asked why let I totally strangers let me say anything. I dont.
This is a forum where one shares a ching.
I learned about it from a dear friend in canada, my poet fried, who is 26 years older. I would marry him.
Noone knows anything about me and something I wrote lead you to prejudices.
I never intended to solve any problems with vipassana, not in the least. I got it recommended from a teacher of astrology. She does it regularly. she as well shared other things with me and others, like braco gazing, just because its "in" to follow this and that. my dear vip friend who was with me during interviiews with that ONE male teacher ( who gets critique from other students as well, who can better describe hat I saw in him as well )... and my dear VIP friend told me, that this particular teacher does not understand much about what I told him. I just wantet to show I am intelliegnt. In dead I wantet to show who I am.

My biggest suffering is because people dont see who I am most of the time, because there is no interest in it.
And when I had my teethproblems I had been to the doctor before the service and got that paper for medication antibioticum but I did not yet know IF i would take it. I frst of all would not, only if it really got worse or if I felt I should.
I had it with me and later decided to take it. the real operation on my teeth was two months later.

When I decided to be vegan in a mostly nonbvegan sourrounding there had to be phases of hunger. But it was my choice.
Etc.

Its just, I would not talk about it normally and only mention it because I wonder if thats important.

My first teacher was indeed very looking for everyone out. She knew many languages and was able to talk to each student in his her own language.
I prefer courses which have both male and female teacher, but sometimes this is not the case, as it was with that specific one . And he did not care about ill people in the service. He was just not strict.
So other servers could party in bed.
While a former teacher I had would have sent me away had not I been able to sit sstrait because of the back probem which came suddenly.
out of nowhere. Thats why I felt it did not make much sense with him, the new teacher. He was just not strict.
I told him I break the rule because I drink coffee. He told me I was allowed to drink coffee. But in my opinion coffee was a drug. Later I sat a course with him and someone who was driving me asked me if I had left coffee out and I sayd no.
He said better leave it out.
I just had startet drinking coffe exactly at that place one year before during service.

When I saw him during last service where he was not alone but had a female teacher as well... this was different and I had written to calm he should have someone next to him.
But in that particular place there can only be one male teacher because there is no more space for a female one.

I guess for my next sitting course I will go to belgium because I can go there in one day by bike.
I wont pay expensive busses and trains any more or wrive with strange people.

On my way back from thaat one last service before my friend suicided

I sat next to a drunk man who went into hometown to a funeral of a friend who had suiided. He watched movies on his whatever electtronic device and gave me earhearers. First movie was totally okay for me but then he had a very violent futuristic film and I just could not say no.
First one was a story of an artists childhood in his homearea whom he knew, the other one was modern shit before it came into cinema. I just never watch such normally, but did half way in the bus because I was kinda forced into it.
Pff.
Must not be just after being cut open in the brain and very vulnerable.

Once I went with a women back in car and she hald told lies to her workgiver about an illness, so she got days off. She would not tell the truth about vipassnacourse.
I did service with a women who was then shouting words and killing animals and telling me about her strange marriage with violence.
And she was feeling bad when I got a job she wantet to do..



Service is not flying high.
Service is flying very low.

I am a fan of Simon Sinek. Service.
Thats what I will do the next 17 years, service. Because it fits my pluto transit in 6th house, which has just startet.
Every person has good and bad transits.
And I am a highly intelligent and artistic person who has many experinces.
And special interests.

Yes.I wont be an artist durign vipassana service.
As a pastor would not be a pastor during meditation.

However, as a child I was not allowed to talk much abut me. It was and still is always about my mum.

I grew up in church.
I did not have much contact to outside world.
No tv.
books, some.
and many many groups and activities. riding, dancing, music, church.
Later I became a veggie, later a vegan. I worked on farms, very hard, destroyed my body with overwork on a malnourished body out of my cellar years.
I did a lot for healing, like eating vegan.
I have no problem telling that, if there is room for it.
And I guess I will force my infos on them later when I see a way. I always pondered about it.
I have many callings and will become a facereader and a healer.

I wantet to become a meditation teacher. This was especially why I wantet to talk so much with the teacher back then.
Another one told me not to think about it. One gets selected and its all about service.
When I would have lived closer to the center it wold have been eaier.
And I would recommend service in a meditationcenter to my children and every youth, better than on a farm.
Had I know about it earlier I had startet earlier.
It was important for me to do more meditation. Thats why I did another account.

When I did the same in fb once it was because I did not know how to make theme sites. Did not know much about technik.
Later I learned, when I had made other accounts for themes.
I am such a person who creates worlds and collects things. For creating.
Thats just my nature.
I have great ideas for art and stuff and there is no problem with this.
IN the center I had to destroy art and get as well my art destroyed when I made a headflowerstring from flowers. Other servers later discussed the force to destroy art and judged it bad. They argued that destroing art is not fitting for vipassana, but it was recommended.
Teacher and students see things differently. I have just observed this.
I have encountered such and such people.
But nothing else but vipassana is vipassana.

You people can write whatever u like in here, its ur forum.
I wont read u any more in this thread because I wont wear your prejudiced opinions and judgements on my skin.
Because I know waht buddha said: Think on your own.

And my teacher told me to forgive myself when I did something wrong.
And to look for better company.

I could go on about how I have been a red cross sister for my former friend, the father of m first child, how doctors t´did not tell me everthing because we were not married and how this influenced fate.
I could not save him. I was not even allowed or teached to understand him. But I cared for him.And its normal to first of all think of what one could have done differently and what if. This did not change. I prayed for him and I guess I heleped him after his dead much more thatn possible before.
I have more education about the afterlife as well from other sources.

I wont be stopped learning and practising more of what I call the final solution, vipassana.
 

Devajyoti

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ON my last service I learned someone to know who came to vipassana because it was recommended to him as a solution and healing from a friend and it worked. he did it already since 21 years, but never served. It was his first service.
I guess he did not even give much dana before.
He told me he came from a family where his father had raped all his sisters and he had many of them, except the youngest sister.
Because he left his mom when she was pregnant.

We came to talk about thiss because of the "rapeoil" which was a misspelling. Raps oil.

He did not like the "rapeoil" and then we talked alone while cutting veggies.

I can listen to others. I dont talk about myself.

But I can understand such stories.

Other men during serive talk about how much they hate their wife or always say ****.

This happens.

and my special contact told me he was happy that no one said anything.

because

WHO CARES?
 

dfreed

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nothing else but vipassana is vipassana.

You people can write whatever u like in here, its ur forum.
I wont read u any more ... because I wont wear your prejudiced opinions and judgements on my skin.
Well, I guess I was mistaken. You are making plans to attend another retreat in Belgium - so your issues with CALM must be all cleared up. And you are dedicated to a life of service. Good.

I assume then that you got the answer you needed from the I Ching. Best of luck to you.
 

Devajyoti

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mybest female server friend is an elderly women who often gives service in poland and she was forced into it because there was no one there and she made mistakes. she cried on students for example. others where anrgyy with her. what is she shouting at them. She is just that way.
ANd she was a sewer and she has worked with the dying.
I too will work with the dying.
I have experience now with the dying and the suffering.
And I will learn more to be with them much better than without such healing techniques and
yes, possibly this then wont fit with vip when I do healing. like with gongs.

I will see then.

But I have always cared for the weak and ill and poor and vulnerable.
I have empathy
and if someone wil have someone dying and is shocked

I wont sit in front of that person and just talk about recipes ignoring their pain ( like I experienced in a vipassana center when I had just learned about someone close to me who passed away )

I wont treat people with that same disrespect I was treatet.

And I did already good work in the centers, creating sitting benches and cushions on them, gardines, sewing, woodf´work, for the kitchen highly useful stuff noone else had done as I did because I am intelligent and have ideas and experience with such.

But this is not my "where I earn money with"

because I am a mother, a handyman and someone who works in many field but not for the sake of earning a living yet.
Possibly as well that might change. But who cares.
I dont.
 

Devajyoti

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Id like to add. It was not my experience, maybe except with my first teacher . that a teacher would really want to know what a person gos through. A teacher has 120 students to give meta to and to teach the technique to. he or she teaches 100 students and cares for 20 more.
With some luck he or she is not the only teacher.
Yes if one goes to interviews and if the chemistry is okay - which happend for me most of the time better in other countries like france or switzerland - then one can have some good talk .

the teacher I was talking about, maybe I did not say it all. He was alone. Some women which were new students needed a women teacher. One was very amazed when I told her there are women teachers as well, in the center. He looks like a young boy my female vip friend told me, like age 13, although he is professor at university and he loves to laugh. No evening discurse without a lot of laughing.
I love him and I feel he loves me too. Because we already now and value each other.
So all I have to do is solving the knot, but later in the year.
He is someone who is very untired to explain over and over again in the same words the technique. Jokingly, but very direct and consequent.
On my last service when he was there next to a very good female teacher in the evening discourse when the servers had questions there was an indian guy and he told stories about friends which were lying in the forms in order to achieve something higher. he talked about it ver openly and direct.
xy lied in the form and what if I lie in the form to get this. How can I get this. ... llie in the form.
We all had a good laugh. The female teacher suggested him not to ask further questions.
His main task in the service was to iscuss indian beliefes about buddhism and afterlife, religious questions.
Funny fact: He sounded like goenka.
I told him that and he told me he was very much NOT like goenka but he was gratefull his vioce reminded me of him. Of course I knew what he was talking was kinda ... haha.
all he did was drying some cleaned dishes beside to having late evening discussions after bedtime in the kitchen with the manager of the center and whoever wantet to participate.

One person was there to serve because she wantet to clean herself because she believed in the "last war".

Well, we are all a bit crazy the man with the raped sisters told me when I spoke to hiim abut his reaction towards her.
She was a naked dancer from calling. Some women were prejudiced against her.

But the teacher , the female one, managed it all very nice.

I loved the polish center the most, maybe thats because in poland I have better astrological lines for meditation.
After the course I was ambitious to start financial help plans with some ideas, because the center needed final payment for the land it was built on. I got a phonecall from the centerteacher saying special thanks to me and being kinda gratefull.

This is all "differnt parts of me"

Whats one true self?

When I talk about misuse or trauma, I speak from a view of injustice I have viewed or experienced.
Since I always had a kinda worldpain like yehudi menuhin had in his music and since I had read 55 books of may who idealised suffering in some way I was very much into this perspective no matter if from own experience or from feeling for others. fact is I am proud of having the empathy and awareness as well as the calling to overturn this for me and others in live and world.

I was forced into that position during a talk with that other server who was lying ill in bed half of the time when I cared for her. The one who sat in the kitchen and was visibly for everyone taking off her nail polish. As if it was not possible to do it previously.
My thougths were: If I know the rules I care for them before I go there. I dont go there with leggins, earrings, t shirt and naillack etc.
But many women dont care 100 percent, as well not men.
Some just wear earrings all the time.
Some have permanent makeup.
I remember accidentally I had a tshirt with a symbol of ganesh with me for sleeping and when I went to the bathroom someone was shaking in fear!
In shock! Aww, the forbiidden thing.
I only learned through goenka that mantras exist, later I learned them in a yogacenter.

When I talk to yogateachers participating in a vip course, which I did at one of my last sit course in the last meal in the meta day we talked about the form.
She told me she had applyied and written inside she had studied to be a ogateacher. Then they asked more questions: do you know about chakras?
They dont want you to THINK about CHAKRAS during meditation but it is a prejudice that people would do this.
Fact is everyone who studies ogateacher leanrs about chakras. Its not avoidable. So either you are a ogateacher or you can do vipassana or you just dont tell them.
She told me she could not go to the course in the center and then she applyied to the other course and was taken. I told her better not to talk about yoga in the form again.
Its just a matter of: Do you want to have to ask ganesha to ask for removing the hindrances or do you want to meditate?
One hindrance leads to more hindrances, fun fact.
Teachers dont want to "be with you". They are afraid.
In india , I read in the books of vip organisation, there have been mentally ill people meditating and it helped them. The are allowed in, and maybe there is a frame, I cannot really remember, BUT in india is allowed what in europe is not. My friend would not have been able to visit a course. He had to die without ever sitting a course.
There have been days when I told him to breath.
But I was on service when he needed me. But I would not have been able to save him.

Its not my fault.

And its not vip fault.

But every person in such a situation first looks for own faults and thinks that way, only later I listened to my friend and sayd to the universe: I want that abundance!

I am sat chid anand.
Thats his mantra.
Its okay for me that he does not sit courses, he sais he has friends who like goenka a lot.
He has his own way. And some people dislike his way, others love him.
But noone tells me whats my way. I choose it on my own.

My mum has a ritual or rite beside religion. Its making headlines with her suffering ever day in every 2nd sentence when I am in contact with her. A little e...
Since I was a child. I would not do that I decided earlier. But I let this mum in my life.
It was my fault that I have choosen it.
;) as well everything else.

Still my hobby would have been saving the bees out of waterbins and stuff like that.
I had all that IN ME before I did my first course.
I came to it through recommendation but understood it just much later because of so much distraction.
I got very bored wth the german translation of the discourse very soon because it repeats itself and if u are vegan you really neednd learn to think bad about people having cattle.
You get teached to think: this is good, this is bad. moral.
yes. nice. religion is free, but oftn bad.
I read critique websites. But I said tomyself: One has to understand goenka.
He is very special.

I learned all about his story, his teacher and the teacher of his teacher and his lifestory.
But I want other people to wonder about this as well.
I sat alone watching the videos, like quarantine.
Ther eis a time I decide to change towards worldly stuff again. because around me is the world.
Does not mean I cannot understand the spiritual world.

I was time in the yogacenter and transcribed a lot of stuff from a famous man who wrote about transition and rebirth...

But I seperate it.
I had great opportunities.

My service is about being part of the whole. Like in a watch, were every little piece has its role and is needed.
They have needed me and one day I will be needed again.
But as well I can offer my service elsewhere.
When I go wwoof again, I will be in the comunity and the rules will be applied, I will not overwork as I did aged 17 when I had to work ver hard 10 hours a day. This was not legal. It destroyed my bodyy.
Thats what I call rape.

rape is when people handle you very badly
you can get raped in vip center.

but as well you can meet very great people, which are not et buddha, which have weaknesses and know this. And handle this.
in the one or the other way. just great.
And in the end everyone is great.

You dont give service in order to tell others they are inferior because they broke a rule.

Thats not what goenka teaches.

SO maybe some of you should think again before applying for a course.

thanks for reading I hope you had fun
 

Devajyoti

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btw as I said I wont read stupid comments.
Stupid intentions.
When I told my first teacher about something someone who took me with the car told me about not giving his phone away she said I just told her that because of good intention.
She would have allowed him to have his phone because he wantet to phone his dauhter when it was her birthday.
But he id not ask.
Anyway. Some are stricter, some are not.
I learned to value personalities of teachers from early on.
This thread is not about me making vipassana for omething it is not.
I am just talking about personal encounters I have had. So I am talking about life.
If someone of you wants to "teach me" or wants to be from a superior position talking down and making me small or stuff, dont waste your energies.
Vipassna ist for everyone who wants to do it.
You cannot decide like.
"you wont go to heaven, you cannot do it. you are the wrong personality!"

You are stupid!


YOu are ignorant!

Buddha himself taught the murderer who had murderer 999 people and wantet to murder him too.

THat man became a good vipassanastudent and as well walked around in order to teach.

When people then realised it was the same man who had murdered someone close to them they began shouting and defending.

this is ignorance. sad world, unhappy people. making themselves miserable.

just do better. let it be
 

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