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8, 13, 45...

maiajay

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Hi everyone,

I'm curious about how people distinguish between #8, #13 and #45...Holding Together, Fellowship, Gathering....I'm sure this topic has come up before, if not in the archives of this forum, then in the minds of some of its members...

In general terms I tend to associate #13 with humanity and our basic commonalities...Perhaps I would receive it at times when I am feeling apart from...Or am somehow alienating myself? 8 and 45 seem less distinct to me...
How do other's relate to these three?
Peace,
Maya
 
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bruce_g

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Hi Maya,

I find these two little paraphrases helpful:

45: Get it together
8: Keep it together

13, as I see it, is relatedness, but it can be seen in the natural world as well as in the human world, i.e. the way a flower's petal is related to the root. I once asked the Yi, why do you give answers to humans? and received 13. This says to me that the source of answers is directly related to the source of questions: they're not two separate entities or phenomenon. Or, consider a musician and their instrument: they become one when playing music, they are relating - just as we now are here, albeit in the meadow.
 

dobro p

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Hi everyone,

I'm curious about how people distinguish between #8, #13 and #45...Holding Together, Fellowship, Gathering....I'm sure this topic has come up before, if not in the archives of this forum, then in the minds of some of its members...

In general terms I tend to associate #13 with humanity and our basic commonalities...Perhaps I would receive it at times when I am feeling apart from...Or am somehow alienating myself? 8 and 45 seem less distinct to me...
How do other's relate to these three?
Peace,
Maya

8 means uniting around a leading principle or idea. It doesn't require more people than just yourself. It's usually issue-driven.

13 is associating or uniting with others - it's the 'social' hexagram.

45 is assembling on a grander scale for a great purpose - it's more purpose-driven than 13.
 
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lightofreason

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08 - represents a passive center of attraction, such as royal court (they dont come to you, you go to them) - with/from devotion to another/others comes control.

45 - congregating, assembly with a focus on join celebration of faith/belief etc (it pairs with 12 that is neutralising in its defence of faith - this 12 is competitive, 45 cooperative) - with/from devotion to another/others comes intensity in expression

13 - association with the 'like minded' - but not too social - this is like a gang or an ideological group - each are individuals with common interest and so maintain their personal identities. In 08 this personal identity is determined by the group (and so 08 can also cover cults and their attractions, renaming of an individual etc etc) - with/from guidance comes singlemindedness.

Chris.
 

maiajay

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3, 35, 53

Thanks, guys. Very helpful.
..Wwhile we're on the this thread, how about your perceived distinctions between 3,
35, 53? When I get 3 (which I did this morning-unchanging when asking what I needed to understand about a situation) I feel like the Yi is saying, things are having trouble getting off the ground but that they are moving, perhaps against some obstacles and will break-thorough in time. Then I started thinking, do 3, 35 and 53 all have inherent in them eventual success? And if so, how do they differ?
More curiosities...
Peace,
Maya
 
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bruce_g

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Thanks, guys. Very helpful.
..Wwhile we're on the this thread, how about your perceived distinctions between 3,
35, 53? When I get 3 (which I did this morning-unchanging when asking what I needed to understand about a situation) I feel like the Yi is saying, things are having trouble getting off the ground but that they are moving, perhaps against some obstacles and will break-thorough in time. Then I started thinking, do 3, 35 and 53 all have inherent in them eventual success? And if so, how do they differ?
More curiosities...
Peace,
Maya

Well, likely there will be disagreement on this, but these are my views and perceptions:

3 is the beginning; before goals, purposes and directions have been sorted out. From out of confusion order emerges.

35 represents expansion, a broadening of influence and/or effect.

46 (though you didn't ask) represents vertical ascension, one step at a time.

53 represents constancy, momentum and torque, such as can be found in the gear movement of a watch.
 
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bruce_g

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53 may bring confusion with 32, because 32 also includes the idea of constancy and momentum. The way I see this, 32 is the balance which permits easy movement.
 
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lightofreason

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03 - with enlightenment comes control (sprout into and seek the sun that controls - enlighten being to receive/be born into, the light. water in upper covers control and hex 8 covers line 5 and so a focus on something/someone seemingly passive that attracts you - as the sun attracts a flower etc)

35 - with devotion comes direction (progress - you bring something into the light)

53 - with self-restraint comes becoming influencial (wind, cultivating doubled is wind in upper and so become influencial) - maturing (as compared to the immaturity associated with 54 - be it intentional or not)

Chris.
 

maiajay

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Since Bruce added 46...I might as well add 57. I almost did, originally, and then thought three was enough...So...what about 57?
Maya
 
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lightofreason

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Since Bruce added 46...I might as well add 57. I almost did, originally, and then thought three was enough...So...what about 57?
Maya

57 - with cultivation comes becoming influencial (a rising wind).

If you want to change things implicitly, use wind. If you want to do it explicitly, 'in your face', use thunder (51).

57 covers eliciting change by manipulition of surrounding context - be it in agriculture in manipulating the field/nutrients etc or in office politics by moving the chairs around to 'influence' how people sit. In nature the influence is like that of walking by a stream in intense discussion and 'suddenly' noticing the presence of a mist where the mist now forces change in your actions.

A rising wind is an influencial wind and this covers cultivation doubled - ie not only are you cultivated but that has become noticed and so your influence increases (like 09 where with perseverence (small gains) comes becoming influencial.

51 is more in your face - I put a gun to your temple and assert 'you WILL change, NOW'.
It also covers sudden change in the form of some new idea etc or an 'enlightening' or 'shocking' moment.,

Chris.
 

cassius_clay

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I see hexagram 8 as people needing the assistance of a leader to maintain that union that they couldn't maintain on their own.

I see hexagram 13 as having fellowship with people outside of your click or sphere.

I see hexagram 45 as more of a spiritual unity. People that are bound together by spiritual laws, ancestors or a spiritual leader and things like that.

Am I making sense?
 
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maremaria

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53 may bring confusion with 32, because 32 also includes the idea of constancy and momentum. The way I see this, 32 is the balance which permits easy movement.

Which is the difference between 32 and 11 ?
 
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bruce_g

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Which is the difference between 32 and 11 ?

Lines 1 and 4. :mischief:

I'm not sure I see the correlation you're looking for, Maria. However, I see 32 as balance, stability in motion, and 11 as union of complimentary opposites.
 

Tohpol

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Lines 1 and 4. :mischief:

I'm not sure I see the correlation you're looking for, Maria. However, I see 32 as balance, stability in motion, and 11 as union of complimentary opposites.


With 32 persistence is a biggie too.

Topal
 
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maremaria

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Lines 1 and 4. :mischief:

I'm not sure I see the correlation you're looking for, Maria. .

The rational behind this confusion : The power of earth and heaven are unite. As a result harmony Harmony = agreement, balance . so 11 is balance ? :confused:

I thought that balance in 11 is a fragile state, that earth and heaven are not committed but on the other hand, on 32 there is a commitment, a more reliable union. :confused:

I had the impression that 32= unite and 11= balance
 
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bruce_g

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The rational behind this confusion : The power of earth and heaven are unite. As a result harmony Harmony = agreement, balance . so 11 is balance ? :confused:

I thought that balance in 11 is a fragile state, that earth and heaven are not committed but on the other hand, on 32 there is a commitment, a more reliable union. :confused:

I had the impression that 32= unite and 11= balance

Be careful of trying define too narrowly an entire hexagram’s meaning with one or two words. A word may point to the meaning but not define it entirely.

They both include the idea of union. The trigrams of 11 are heaven below earth – the two principle opposites of creation. Heaven moves up, earth moves down, and so there is union of heaven and earth. The marriage union of 32 is made of wind below and thunder above, where the forces at play perpetuate one another; the relationship endures based on this self-renewing interplay and balance.
 
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bruce_g

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Also, in case it helps, heaven and earth can be seen as father and mother. Thunder and wind represent the eldest son and daughter. Rather than think of this incestuously, think of it as earthly husband and wife.

A single time of 11 isn't long lived, whereas the time of 32 is meant to endure, day after day, year after year.

See the difference?
 

heylise

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View attachment 448 The name of hex.8 is a picture of two people standing side by side, "standing by"

View attachment 449 Hex. 13 is composed of two characters, the first one a moulding box with either an opening or an object, meaning "all, similar, identical, common, to share".
The second one is the character for "man".
Together: " colleagues, person(s) of the same beliefs/convictions"

View attachment 451 Hex.45 is a picture of a uniform, of soldiers or servants, with 'grass' above it: "gather together". Collecting similar things, "assemble, bundle, collection".

LiSe
 
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lightofreason

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the IDM/IC+ universal forms cover all sensory systems and so allow for any sense or combination of to represent those forms:

8 - quality of devotion to another/others (contractive blending, wholeness through drawing in) in which is operating a quality associated with the sense of control (contractive bounding, to use a boundary to contain and so protect inner from outer or outer from inner)


13 - quality of guidance (expansive bounding, a guide/gang/clan/ideology etc) within which is operating a quality of singlemindedness (expansive blending, wholeness by pouring out)

45 - a quality of devotion to another/others (contractive blending, wholeness by drawing in) in which is operating intensity in reflection (expansive bonding, sharing space with others, cooperative exchange).

Chris.
 
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maremaria

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A single time of 11 isn't long lived, whereas the time of 32 is meant to endure, day after day, year after year.

See the difference?

If i have understand that you said, 11 is a photo-a moment and 32 is a movie (comparing the length of the time they capture ?):rolleyes:
 
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bruce_g

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If i have understand that you said, 11 is a photo-a moment and 32 is a movie (comparing the length of the time they capture ?):rolleyes:

Perhaps this is a bit of presumption on my part. Perhaps some have developed to the point of making 11 an enduring condition. I'm not there yet, at any rate.
 
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maremaria

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Hi Bruce,
Thanks for the clues in 11 and 32. They are very helpful to me. but the fog is still there . I need to go back to the texts and make my stories. ;)

maria
 
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bruce_g

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Hi Maria,

Well, don't let the fuzziness disturb you, but do write your stories. Things will become clear, and the next time they will be fuzzy again. Fuzzy, clear, fuzzy, clear; windshield wipers in the rain.
 
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maremaria

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You won't believe it but its the truth,
A few minutes before opening your post I have a phonecall from a techincian cheking out my car (just in case I leave for a sort trip) and told if I want to replace the wiper's blades . I had the image of a BIG wiper cleaning my desk and that mountain of papers I have to look at, it disapears. !!! Then I thougth that it would be useful to have such a wipper in my mind.

Image how it felt when I open and read your post.!!!

I am in a bad mood because I had to cancel my vacations to catch up unfinished projects in work! :eek:
Your image make my smile.
:)
thanks,
Maria
 

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