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8.6 > 20 and 19.2.3 > 36

elizabeth

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If I do X, what will come of it? 8.6 > 20

What is most likely long-term if I stay with him? 19.2.3 --> 36 constancy in hardship bears fruit

I wanted to request help or personal experience with the lines in these two sets of hexagrams. I have already read what the archives/previous posters with the same hexes said and a few pieces are missing for me.

Starting with the first one, "If I do X, what will come of it? 8.6 > 20"

I got the following responses for line 6: You dont really want to/ the relationship has no leader/there is no focus. ODDLY the resulting hex 20 states not making the offering." Is that the message -- not to do "X"? I should state that "doing X" would promote the relationship and help it. So the options are doing X or doing nothing.

___
Second question:
What is most likely long-term if I stay with him? 19.2.3 --> 36 constancy in hardship bears fruit

So 36 sounds promising and I can say the relationship has many circumstantial challenges. Lines 2 and 3 concern me, this is what i found:

line 2: ‘Influence nearing, good fortune. Nothing that does not bear fruit.’/Pressing forward with a companion will be auspicious. Everything will be advantageous.

Its like, at first everything is hunky dory with the relationship "nothing that does not bear fruit", so things are good. But then wait! : suddenly we have a polar opposite message in Line 3, ‘Sweetness nearing, No direction bears fruit. Already grieving it, no mistake.’

So does that mean "dont stay" ?? or "If you stay it will be difficult" (but will bear fruit) Or??
 

Trojina

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Quick answer....this can't be sustained. 8.6 just can't hold it together. You could take it as a warning that unless there is clear and focused commitment it can't work out ...although generally one cannot overcome the disintegration alone...and the other is too much of a flake....and no one is holding it.

But then you got 19.2.3>36.....With 19.3 well however sweet it looks and however much you'd like it to work it just doesn't...and then there is the 36.


So overall I see the message that there really is not enough stability or commitment here. I don't know if that is in you or him or both of you...I suspect both of you. There is no point sticking together for the sake of it. The 19.2 may suggest you have a connection and it is good.....but nevertheless it isn't going anywhere in terms of the substantial relationship you might want. You could stay friends though.


You don't have to accept this take of course...but it is my overall impression. I do think it is likley you can remain on good terms though. You know it looks like 2 people who mean well but find it just isn't really working. They still like each other but...well there's a song for this....for that kind of feeling


[video=youtube;q8b8Nz31jZw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8b8Nz31jZw&feature=player_detailpage#t=16[/video]

What do you think ? Do you think you both have enough commitment and motivation to make this work ?
 

elizabeth

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Hm, that somewhat applies here but somewhat doesn't...in that we both love each other and both are committed, there hasn't been discussion of separating per se yet. Although if the Yi is still saying that despite the love there's no future then...I will hear that message and consider it... in short RIGHT NOW we are getting along and things are good but i need to make decisions about the future and hence the questions. the issue is the circumstances around the relationship and not so much the relationship itself, which is why i asked...although how does one really separate out the two...

Does 19.3 say WHY it doesn't work out?

The part that does fit is him being a flake. LOL. And he needs my help to dig him out of a mess, and I would like to help but i wonder if it is wise.
 

Trojina

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Well if you love him it seems unusual to be asking this


Second question:
What is most likely long-term if I stay with him? 19.2.3 --> 36 constancy in hardship bears fruit

I read that as you were thinking of leaving.



I don't know what the 8.6 was actually about....you digging him out of a hole ? With 8.6 I wouldn't advise it.

Although if the Yi is still saying that despite the love there's no future then...I will hear that message and consider it...

Well no of course Yi isn't saying that all by itself.....context is all. I applied the answer in the context you gave. If you really are both still much in love why would you ask if you should stay with him ?

Oh the circumstances.....well I more or less hold by what I said I'm not sure that the bond is strong enough if circumstances are not straight forward. If you go to a long distance relationship I wouldn't be confident the bond would hold. It is very hard to keep together with a physical distance.


But you have Hilary's book don't you...I think you said you did. There is a good commentary in that on 19.3.


You will have to apply the answer as you feel it applies. I can't make my reply fit your circumstances...I can only offer what I can see from here...
 

elizabeth

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Actually no, I don't have hilary's book yet...

"What is most likely long-term if I stay with him? 19.2.3 --> 36 constancy in hardship bears fruit"
I read that as you were thinking of leaving.
So I see why it sounds that way, but bc of the challenges now (and digging him out of a mess) I wanted to ask what the future holds, ie will it always be me digging him out of messes, and a lot of messes, or is this going to shift and it's a temporary thing -- that's sort of where I was coming from. Friends (who do not love him as I do) say end it bc of the complexities but I've never been one to throw a relationship out just bc it gets difficult. So ...i dunno.

but for this
I don't know what the 8.6 was actually about....you digging him out of a hole ? With 8.6 I wouldn't advise it.

Why? I guess the phrase "cannot be sustained" implies repetition (to me at least) like if you dig him out now, you will dig him out later etc and the cycle will repeat, there fore it "cant be sustained" - like that (I am guessing though)?
 

Trojina

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I wanted to ask what the future holds, ie will it always be me digging him out of messes, and a lot of messes, or is this going to shift and it's a temporary thing -- that's sort of where I was coming from


Well yes ....this is how it feels, that you cannot rely him to honour you digging him out.

Another way to see it might be if you don't dig him out you are being the flake in 8.6.....but Elizabeth my feeling overall is you cannot rely on him to behave better in future .... being a flake can be very destructive in a close relationship....Well only you can say but I wouldn't count on him not needing you to dig him out over and over again

If you have such doubts at this stage then please heed them. It is never good to enter commitments imagining things will change or get better.

I am afraid the 19.3 and the 8.6 suggest to me you would be ill advised to throw everything at this relationship....but readings are so personal. I think what you really need to question here is your own gut feeling of trust. Do you really trust him ?

I am sure he is a very nice person and so on....the 19.2 shows there is love, but if this were about lending him money or giving up your own life to go and be with him I would think very hard indeed....and consult that gut feeling of trust !

Get Hilary's book ...everyone should have it as it is a great help in practical interpretation.

Have to go out now....maybe others will give their views
 

elizabeth

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Thanks Trojina for all your input by the way. (you remind me of a former member, Trojan, I dont know if she's still around)...

well *crap*. Because this is not what I wanted to hear :rolleyes:
It's tough bc there is a lot of love, on both ends, but it's not balanced right now and I have no idea how to (I probably myself cannot) balance it. If I don't give 100% I will always wonder "what if" but i have a lot to lose (time being top of the list) if this is a bad place to stay and I stay. It doesn't SEEM bad but i am wondering what is further out beyond my range of vision... My gut wobbles which is why the question. Some days it doesnt bother me, others I worry... this is why I need a magic ball. If i KNEW the right thing to do then i would just do it! :)
 

Trojina

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Thanks Trojina for all your input by the way. (you remind me of a former member, Trojan, I dont know if she's still around)...

It's me...same person/crab, had a name change.


I think deep down you likely do know what to do but you mind gets in the way. Anyway you don't have to take my view of the reading as the final truth about the situation...yet the very fact you have doubts speaks volumes don't you think ? So when you say


well *crap*. Because this is not what I wanted to hear

you are projecting your own inner voice on to me. What you need to hear can come from no other place than your own psyche...there is no outer judgment.

Don't disown your own inner judgement about this. This is wholly your choice and you yourself have raised the question whether this man will continually need digging out of holes.

Why? I guess the phrase "cannot be sustained" implies repetition (to me at least) like if you dig him out now, you will dig him out later etc and the cycle will repeat, there fore it "cant be sustained" - like that (I am guessing though)?


There are all sorts of reason relationships cannot be sustained. 8.6 for example might describe a scenario where 2 people are friends, live far away from each other and there is always some reason they are too busy or too tired to call and somehow they never manage to meet up. There is 'no head for holding together'...it happens, it's called drifting apart. You asked I think about rescuing him in some way...8.6 would say to me it doesn't bring you closer....what he starts he doesn't finish....


...but anyway just be aware you already have your own doubts....so when you say this isn't what you want to hear what you are really saying is you won't allow or listen to your own inner voice on this. You can't really take the stance of being like a helpless puppet here... being told this is or that is going to happen as if it were someone else's idea. It was your idea...you asked the question. That's why I think you already know. In any case you certainly know better than I do.
 

elizabeth

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Oh hi )) good to see you again, it has been a while )

Yes I am sure the doubts say a lot. This is just highly complicated. I am not sure what I am throwing away, and I don't want to be premature in any decisions either... I hear the gut but I also hear HOPE and faith in the future. And at various times one is louder than the other...

but the hexes dont have any positive "it will be difficult but all will end all right" messages, so that is sobering...
 

Trojina

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I'll quote from Hilary's book on 19.3....since you don't have it yet


'Sweetness nearing,
No direction bears fruit.
Already grieving it, no mistake.'


The experience or the person drawing near promises to be exclusively sweet, amenable and nice. This is not just too good to be true, it's too one sided to be whole or real. No amount of planning or intending can somehow turn pure sweetness into complete nourishment and make this sustainable. You are not wrong to grieve this and let it go.

I find that commentary to be apt....but also there is a bitter sweet feel to the line, it's nostalgic or rueful which is why of reminded me of the Carole King song, in that 'we really did try to make it'.....

I mean there is always that sense of it ....not wanting to let go of something that isn't working.

However you also had 19.2 which makes me feel that what you have is good....but.....how sustainable is it ?

So in terms of 'hope' I think this line rather sadly and sweetly advises you not to I'm afraid. Also the 36 as the relating hexagram might suggest some things are hidden from you...in any case 36 may suggest wounding to your light. Digging someone out of a hole who fails to hold it together (8.6) just doesn't bode well overall. Yet this doesn't mean there is no real connection or love (19.2) it's just how far can that love go in terms of the lasting relationship you want ?(19.3).


But you are living the reality. If you don't think this is true then your view must over ride mine...

Practically he is the one you need spend more time talking to...about your fears and hopes and so on.
 

elizabeth

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You make a good point. And I hasten to add the "19.2-ness" of this is very very strong. As is the hope. But the ugliness of the 19.3 and the strength it has to threaten to obliterate the 19.2-ness is what scares me.

Ha how was that for Yi-speak))

The thing is if I talk to him he says "oh it will be fine, why are you worried, why are you negative." But he doesn't know the future, he can't guarantee a lot of things either... so I don't know...

It is all very grey and fuzzy. I keep trying to adjust the lenses and it does no good.
 

Trojina

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You make a good point. And I hasten to add the "19.2-ness" of this is very very strong. As is the hope. But the ugliness of the 19.3 and the strength it has to threaten to obliterate the 19.2-ness is what scares me.

Ha how was that for Yi-speak))

Not good for Yi speak. I feel I have totally failed to communicate the essence of 19.3. You are not threatened by 'ugliness'....it is simply how it is....within you. The words 'ugliness' and 'obliterate' completely miss the point. if anything 19.3 feels a sweet regret, it just isn't a harsh line....I was trying to convey that with the song...there's no hard feelings but it doesn't work anymore.

I guess you have the idea that destiny dictates to you against your will and imposes on you from the outside and nothing can shift that.....but it isn't how it is...really. I would never use these words 'ugliness and obliterate' for this caste....You are not threatened by any evil fate from outside. There is only your path and his path and how they meet and converge in your lives through your own choices.


I give up :deadhorse:


I'm kidding...I'm not mad....but OTOH I can't seem to communicate to you here what I think the answer is saying.

C'est la vie :flirt:


Also bear in mind this may be a long term answer that may not make sense until some time has passed. I think you are getting an over view so it isn't about how you are getting along today or tomorrow since your question required an overview of long term prospects.



The thing is if I talk to him he says "oh it will be fine, why are you worried, why are you negative." But he doesn't know the future, he can't guarantee a lot of things either... so I don't know...

Hmm well he sounds like he is just brushing it off, brushing your worries off as if they are insignificant. It would be more help if he sat down and addressed your worries with you.

Anyway I'm done here...Perhaps others have some more ideas.
 

elizabeth

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Well Ok forget my attempt at Yi speak. I meant in human terms the love ("the 19.2 ness") is strong but the idea that "it just won't work" (19.3) is ugly (to me), and I don't like it. So to me, a 19.3 IS harsh. ANY ENDING (for me, in my life, how i process) it is harsh, it is an evil fate to have to live through that (was what i was trying to say)... even though I do know the feeling that you, and the song, and the quote, are trying to convey, like the sad realization it won't work out and "let's stay friends." But in real life, in my life, right now, I don't feel that ("yet"(?) )... I don't feel that sense of sweet regret and resignation, such as, "oh it's too bad it can't work out yet, but I accept it, and that's OK, and no big loss here." Maybe ---as i see you just added to the post-- maybe i will hit that point in the future...near term or far term? but... I personally haven't come to that point yet.

Therefore -- i can't just say "OK it's over" because, well, it's not there yet. I'm not there yet. If that makes sense? And when/if I get there, to me it will be harsh/evil because no break up is easy/sweet/soft/ with no repercussions of emotional pain that lingers for weeks...they are all rotten. Breakups suck. :rolleyes: (again only how I experience them, but I am highly sensitive and take things deeply into my heart. I realize many people are not like me & can brush it off and "move on" the next week or month. I can't.).
So that is what I was trying to say :)

I DID understand what you wrote though. :) Just so you know )) You were in fact very clear ).
I am just telling you how what the Yi says and what you said, relates to how i feel about it - that's all. :)
 

Trojina

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I haven't said 'this is over' at all.....so you don't understand. I'm saying more like you can't go much further in offering to dig him out of holes or making great life sacrifices for him. You can go on as you are....but when it comes to changing your whole life for him or giving him money or whatever the answers do not favour that IMO. In the end not wishing to make those sacrifices, as I understand it, will mean the end of the prospects of it as a serious long term relationship. You could stay his lover....but I don't think moving, giving up your own life and paying for his mistakes is the way forward. You already know that quite well or at least your friends do

Friends (who do not love him as I do) say end it bc of the complexities but I've never been one to throw a relationship out just bc it gets difficult.

I agree with them. Happy relationships are not endlessly complicated...there is no need for them to be. You have serious doubts about this as a long term prospect....or a prospect that you will invest considerably in. You must accept and own the fact that you have serious doubts.......But if you don't want to accept your doubts then you will be projecting it on to others telling you what you don't want to hear. I don't want to be the one telling you what you don't want to hear.....I think it is you you don't want to hear.


Anyway there is no need for immediate action, I haven't said there was....if this is a long term reading you can see how it goes and take the reading with you. I said it didn't look sustainable long term not 'it is over now'.


I must leave the thread.....Au revoir for now and Good Luck

Txx
 

elizabeth

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Yes it is me I dont want to hear )) that i will admit!

Ok thanks Trojina!! au revoir!!
 

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