A thought on 9.

[candid]

Sometimes, the only way to make our way through a storm is to forestall it. If we can hold it back for awhile, it may blow over without devastation. To succumb to it readily would be ill-prepared. Hold back your own tides and hold back the storm.

 

[heylise]

I have been thinking a lot about 9 lately, because I never got a clear idea what it essentially was.
Your storm fits in with what I found. The name is 'small accumulating', but it can just as well be translated as 'small cattle'.

So I thought: like a sheep-herd keeps his sheep calm through the calmness of his own mind. He lets his sheep find their own preferred kinds of shrubs and grasses, and just sees to it, every moment, that all are safe.

It is a pair with hex.10, treading. Hex.9 is the treading of your soul, your feelings, what you emanate towards others.

LiSe

 

[candid]

LiSe - I haven't received 9 in a long time but its been on my mind also. I've never felt resolved with Wilhelm's version. It was too much like 5. Being paired with 10 makes more sense to me, as does the idea of holding back the rain rather than waiting for it. I really like the idea of calming the sheep (or cattle) through calming ones own mind. It reminds me of "the good Sheppard" theme of Christ. Also, following the mind's thoughts are words, which can either bring on the storm or tame it. Its like thoughts are clouds and words follow like rain. Cause and affect ? karma. Tame the thoughts and calm the storm.

Thanks for your help and affirmation.

Candid

 

[candid]

LiSe - Looking back on the definition of 'small accumulating', does that refer to the water which accumulates in the clouds, or something else? Maybe something like water behind a dam? hmmm And how does this tie in with the one who is holding back? Or the sheep?

Sorry for the barrage of questions. Wait... no I'm not. *grin*

 

[gene]

Hi

I have received #9 a couple times lately. Often to me it means you do not have enough strength to accomplish what you want now, but the time will come...So many of the hexagrams indirectly refer to building up strength before undertaking a project. Examples that come to mind immediately, are number 3, 26, & 34. In number 26 the restraining power is greater, but the principle is similar. I like #9, because it ends in a promise, "the rain comes when it will, and there is rest."

Gene

 

[candid]

Hi Gene - How then is 9 unlike 5? How you've said it is how I've read it and applied it, but have never been satisfied with it. There's an element of will that's lacking. Something is accomplished by holding back. That's what I'm getting from it. Its different than say, 5, 33, 36 or 62. It isn't retreating, darkening or lowering. Its rather, rising to a higher ground, thereby affecting the tide. The element of will creates the dynamic of doing more than just waiting. At least that's how I'm seeing it.

Candid

 

[gene]

Hi Candid

I think I am going to have to think about this for a while, on the surface though, I see the difference between nine and five as five being simply waiting for the right time, 9 is overcoming an obstacle. A Tai Chi master once described the meaning of the first 10 hexagrams in terms of the growth of the student in his practice. I will try to remember his thoughts on these. Starting with #3 where the yin and the yand first divides... Three is the beginning student, who at yet has no knowledge. He must start recognizing things as they are and bring order out of chaos. In number four he acquiesces to the teacher and is willing to learn. In number FIVE he waits for his strength to build and nourishes himself in the process. In number six he deals with conflict and learns to protect himself. In number seven he uses his skills in tournaments, etc. In number 8 he uses his skills in the outer world as a uniter and builder, not as a destroyer. In number nine he encounters minor resistance, but learns to overcome it. In number 10 he develops fully his character and becomes somewhat of a master himself.

Number five seems to deal with a difficult situation, in which one must fully train and develop his skills in order to eventually overcome. It is followed by number six, which is conflict. Number nine seems to indicate less the matter of development, and more the waiting for a minor obstruction to be removed. It is followed by number 10 in which character is developed... I don't think I am satsfied with my answer either, and I think I will meditate on this a little more deeply tomorrow.

Gend

 

[pedro]

I see 9 as being a preparation to 5. In hex 5 water is already condensed above the sky, while in 9 you still have to use the wind to gather the scattered clouds together (I think LiSe's image of the sheepherd says it all, thanks for another great image

). But while in 5 success is inevitable, we just have to know how to wait, in 9 success is just probable, we are still left with all the work to do.
I agree 26 can also make a parallel to 9, with a stronger "taming power", but I see 26 as a whole different league. In 26 I see the man who knows the sayings of the old, and puts them to practice, daily renewing his vows. He couldnt care less about gathering clouds together

 

[heylise]

I have been reading through every YiJing in my possession, and in everyone I agreed with what was said about hex.9, but nowhere was a basic image. The only one which came close to it was Carol Anthony:
"Careful responsibility to do what is right. Temptation always exists to abandon self-discipline. After small victories our inferiors ask "now may I relax?"
Ambition starts as an ill-defined discontented mood. It is distrusting the path of non-action, or the power of clinging to the truth. This doubt, which is subconsciously perceived by others, inhibits our having a good effect. We need to rest content with the small gains achieved. Modestly accepting the slow way in which nature works gives others the space to discover where their path lies, and their self-interest in following it".

She is very good, but for consulting I get the impression it is always more or less the same advice.

LiSe

 

[candid]

Hi Gene,

Interesting statement: "and I think I will meditate on this a little more deeply tomorrow."

Isn't meditating holding back or even containing the storm? Rising to a higher ground to control the storm, flood or tide? The gentle wind over heaven. Gentle influence and control of one's self and one's environment. The first begets the latter.

In contrast, 26 is mountain over heaven. Something heavy, great and unmoving holds back heaven. In this case, one must go out to meet, cross the great water. There is something specific to accomplish, therefore, its wise to gather up all you've learned, experienced and acquired for the trip.


Candid

 

[candid]

LiSe - Thanks for the Carol Anthony quote. I think she's pretty much saying something similar as I about 9. However, I'm leery of the idea that Yi is 'the way of inaction.' I've heard the premise before and can not agree with it. Rest and movement compliment each other.

 

[heylise]

I don?t think with 'the way of inaction' Anthony means not doing anything. It is wei wu wei: acting not acting, doing things without steering them, just gently giving them enough energy so they happen by themselves.

I have put the complete text of Anthony about hex.9 here: www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/anthony

LiSe

 

[candid]

*nods* yes , that I can see. Thanks LiSe. (as always!)

 

[cal val]

wow...thanks Candid, thanks Lise, thanks Gene, thanks Pedro. If I'd ever questioned why I came to this forum, you all answered that question tonight in this thread.

I've always been puzzled by 9. I'm not any more! My eyes got big when I read Candid's first post. They kept getting bigger as I continued to read everyone else's post.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[heylise]

Oops, the link missed part of it, it should be:
http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/anthony/59-anthony.htm

LiSe

 

[heylise]

Oops again, that is the text of 59

LiSe

 

[gene]

Hi Candid and everyone.

Well, the thing I like about number 26 is line 3, "...Practice Chariot Driving..." So often the I Ching in different ways, tells us to build up while we wait for the moment of action. In #5 it is nourishing ourselves, in #9 it is in a sense, waiting for Heaven's blessing. In 26 it is developing our strength and our determination, and our fighting abilities...Practice Chariot driving. In 29 it is in a sense, waiting for the pit to fill up with water, or metaphorically, a situation to come to terms...#31, not allowing our baser desires to get in the way until the day of marriage... #34 building up strength again...#39 overcoming an obstruction, #49, waiting until our peers are behind us, and support us in our actions. #53, waiting for the right timing to complete the course in courting, and number 64, the final actions before completion. And many other examples too. I see it among my peers so much in America, we are so accustomed to instant gratification, instant microwave, instant coffee, instant tea, freeways instantly get us to work. Instant information, and in classes being taught, instant mastery. Aerobics was developed in a matter of weeks, if not days, and everyone goes to it. A system like Aikido, or Tai Chi or what have you, takes years and years to master, so no one wants to do it. This is America's weakness. Many expected the gulf war to be over in days. The Chinese are very patient, at least they were until they became Americanized. This probably comes from the I Ching, because they know that in time, all things change, and they need only wait for the propitious time.

Well, I haven't had a chance to meditate much. Am listening to Whitney Steiber's Dreamland right now. A very very interesting speaker about the pyramids in the America's, and the Mayan Calander. And some on the Egyptian Pyramids. So, later I will meditate on 9 and 5. (Wasn't there a song written about that? Working 9 to 5, what a way to make a living. For those as old as I am, maybe you remember the old Dobie Gillis show, where maynard G. Crebbs had a heartache everytime anyone mentioned the word work.)

Gene

 

[anita]

Gene, what you say about 9 and other hexagrams really make sense to me in my experience with them. 9, 26, 34 -- I have drawn them all in a similar context. I agree with you too that much of the Yi's advice relates to waiting for the right time to act. In that sense it's almost like good astrology. Because once you know whic are the worst and best periods of your life, you may act accordingly. However, the Yi of course far above astrology and one can turn to it any time.

Best for your Quest

Anita

I find pyramids fascinating. Have you ever experimented with the pyramid shape?

Best for your Quest

Anita

 

[pedro]

sorry to disagree guys, but I dont see the connection of 9 and 26 on one side, to 34 on the other. I mean, 34 is already past taming whatever the other two still have to tame, it is an accomplished strong man, with already the 4 yang lines. He only has to watch out for pride and arrogance, bad qualities that I think 9 and 26 are too meak to fall into

Gene, dont get me started on pyramids

Incidentally, I saw a documentary about atlantis, where scholars stated that all archeologic evidence seems to sugest that atlantis never existed. For instance the argument of having pyramids both in egipt and south american, was rebated by realising that the only way to build in height if you just have piled blocks of stone to work with, is in the shape of a pyramid
I still want to believe in atlantis, though, if not for anything for the romantic notion

 

[gene]

Pedro

There is a lot of nonsense going on about Atlantis as well as anything else. Some of the world's leaders want us to believe in Alice in Wonderland and nothing more. Recently I saw an article where debunkers stated that people's UFO sightings was a cat walking on electrical wires and getting so badly electrocuted he glowed. Swamp gas? Give me a break. And one of my favorites, pilots were chasing the planet Venus. Nothing like insulting people's intelligence, but people believe that stuff, because otherwise they might appear too far out. I once saw a documentary that said it was dangerous to believe in Atlantis because Hitler believed in it. Our leaders know better, but they want to keep the people in the dark. The evidence for Atlantis is overwhelming. Every nation in the world originally had a Noah story, til the Christians and materialists who marry each other said ah, its just a bunch of myths. And the Dogon tribe, why the only reason they knew about the invisible star around Sirius is because missionaries told them about it. More absolute lies and pathetic crap. If the government says it, face it, it's a lie. Well, I will get off my soap box now. The government will probably read this message and say I am just a figment of everyone's imagination. (Which in an ironic way, is somewhat true.) A good book to read is called. "Everything you know is a lie." Something like that anyway. And most of what you don't know is a lie too.

Gene

 

[lenardthefast]

Hi Gene,
I actually like this particular soap box you were on. Keep up the good work. Have read all the same sources and agree somethin' is fishy in Denmark.
Namaste,
Leonard

 

[gene]

Thanks, Leonard

Might I add, fishy in Denmark, fishy in Dallas and Washington, fishy in London, and fishy Bohn, Berlin, and Moscow, among other places.

Gene

 

[lenardthefast]

Amen, Brother!!!

Namaste,
Leonard