About a lost love - Hex 40.5 > 47

[lamethy]

Hello everyone,

After a relationship of almost 8 years, my girlfriend left me a month ago. She said I haven't done anything wrong but she doesn't see a future for our relationship.
I would like to win her love back.
So I've asked the Iching about whether we will be back together. The answer is confusing me.
40 is Release and 47 is Confined.
So does that means that the break up was a delivrance for both of us (so a good thing) but I shouldn't trust her words, and get her back?

Thanks for your help

 

[icastes]

The issue is what it is that you want. That she doesn't see a future with you is obvious in the sense that you are not married. Thus, the liberation that comes with a grand gesture really only leaves in a position where you have no way to marry her or to have success in love. 47 indicates that in the end you are not compatible either for love or marriage (which are two different things). Look for someone else.

 

[elias]

So I've asked the Iching about whether we will be back together. The answer is confusing me.
40 is Release and 47 is Confined.

You've fallen into Beginner's Mistake #3: trying to predict the future. I Ching doesn't tell the future, it tells the present.

40.3: In terms of relationships, it doesn't get much worse than this. That's the good news. You've hit bottom and there's no place to go but up. As the song says, "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose..."

47: "The lake has no water -- exhausted. Developed people accomplish their will by living out their destiny." What icastes said...

 

[danadanadana]

40,3 - why do you want to punish yourself again? You deserve someone who will not leave you and tell you she sees no future. This is not a loving relationship for you.

47 - You are challenged and upset by her disapproval of you. Stop letting her drain your energy. Her's is only one person's opinion. Replenish your energy and move on to someone who will want to build a future with you.

 

[lamethy]

@icastes : Thanks for your answer

@elias : You are right, I've made a mistake. I should have put more thoughts into my question
Also have you made a typo? Because I got 40.5 and not 40.3
Thanks for your answer

@danadanadana : Thanks for your answer. Have you also made a typo on 40.3?

The thing is that she used to see a future with me. We were talking about it just before she left me and we were one the same line of thought. She was enthusiastic about it. And a month later, she left me. I suspect that is not the real reason. And also, the relationship was perfect, we never have any arguments and we were having a lot of fun

I ask I Ching : "Does she see a future for our relationship?"
I got 34.2.3 > 51
It seems to describe the situation Great Vigour into Shock

34 : "You are inspired and animated by strong purpose, and ready to wield your strength like a hero."

51 : "Abruptly, your world is not working as you expect; the solid ground shifts under your feet, security slips away and mental constructs shatter; living reality has spoken."

I guess I should leave her

edit : what about the part in 51 that says "It is a time to hold on to what you most value, and take on responsibility for keeping it safe through the upheaval" ?

 

[elias]

@elias :
Also have you made a typo? Because I got 40.5 and not 40.3

ooops-- I hate when that happens. I was apparently looking at a whole incorrect hexagram, as well as the wrong line...

40.5 is not quite so draconian as my prior response, but not precisely hopeful either. Most modern interpretations turn on some habit of mind that must be overcome to get past the situation.

34.2.3 -- take care not to fall into power games. Disengage (so far as possible -- not an easy task in your circumstance) and avoid further complicating the issue by argument or persuasion.

51 -- shock. I think your reading is correct. There may be further revelations forthcoming.

Wishing you all the best in this difficult time.

 

[danadanadana]

@danadanadana : Thanks for your answer. Have you also made a typo on 40.3?

Sorry! I followed a previous post that used 40.3. I will be more careful in future.

40.5 Even though it is hard to let the old romance go, this is a time to be done with it and let it go, release it. Your ex-girlfriend might decide to have more respect for you because you have shown more self-respect. Be careful at this delicate time because you will be vulnerable to repeating the mistakes of the past.

> 47 Move on. Once you are out of the old relationship you will gain a perspective on some negative effects it may have had on you. You will experience what it is like to interact with other kinds of people who might show you more support. Then you recognize the true nature of your previous relationship.

 

[lamethy]

Thank you all for your support

 

[gato]

You've fallen into Beginner's Mistake #3: trying to predict the future. I Ching doesn't tell the future, it tells the present.

wow...that's a novelty.


@lamethy : 40.5-47 give up, there is nothing more you can do

 

[elias]

@gato -- It's also reality. As explained elsewhere, our "present" is conditioned by the past; we can only conceive of the present in terms of the past. We consciously think using language, which is the distillation of history of a culture into symbolic form (General Semantics 101).

Consequently, when we get a raw glimpse of the present, it looks like the future. The IC's changing lines indicate the probable outcome of a present course of action, quite often very common-sense outcomes. These constitute the future as it may be rather than as it must be. You are free to alter your actions and change this "future," thus IC's predictions are probabilities rather than fate.

Ask the IC to predict who will win next week's football games, or the result of a coin toss, or who will come in dead last in a horse race, or what card will turn up after you shuffle a deck. These are real predictions, to which you will get no coherent answer. As any experienced user can attest, you may receive astonishing answers to what is going on in the world at this moment, however.

 

[mary f]

Beginner's Mistake

You've fallen into Beginner's Mistake #3: trying to predict the future. I Ching doesn't tell the future, it tells the present.
...

Hi Elias. It seems there is a Beginner's Mistake Mannual somewhere. Would you indicate me where can I find it? It may shed some light on my own mistakes.

 

[lamethy]

I don't know if their is a book but on the website, under Learn -> Introduction, you have a page that is close to what elias said :
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/begin/what-can.php

 

[alev]

personally, I believe there are no "rules" or beginners mistakes other than, if you know the format you want to use for throwing the coins or doing the yarrow sticks and know what is is you want to know than that is all there is to it. Everyone communicates with the I ching in their own personal way and the I Ching responds accordingly to that person...it is a very personal matter. There are no right or wrong questions to ask and there are many different methods of using it and varying translations available as well . I am constantly confused why some feel the need to tell someone else they can't ask certain questions or consult in a certain way???

 

[mary f]

I don't know if their is a book but on the website, under Learn -> Introduction, you have a page that is close to what elias said :
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/begin/what-can.php

personally, I believe there are no "rules" or beginners mistakes other than, if you know the format you want to use for throwing the coins or doing the yarrow sticks and know what is is you want to know than that is all there is to it. Everyone communicates with the I ching in their own personal way and the I Ching responds accordingly to that person...it is a very personal matter. There are no right or wrong questions to ask and there are many different methods of using it and varying translations available as well . I am constantly confused why some feel the need to tell someone else they can't ask certain questions or consult in a certain way???

Thanks you both, yes, those are notions that have to be always on our minds, definitely. The fact is that I'm really curious to see this Beginners Mannual Elias is saying, if it really exists. I had never heard of it. A novelty, like Gato said.

 

[alev]

i'd be curious to have a look at it too, I am always open to seeing how others use the I ching as well. For a new user, I think the greatest way to develop a relationship with the I ching is to learn as you go along, what feels right etc...

 

[elias]

I'm not aware of any real "manual," I just started numbering these issues that come up again and again ...

1. Don't ask yes-no questions. (If you want a yes-no answer, flip a coin...) A good teacher makes you think through issues, contemplate the past, and project outcomes, rather than providing a simple answer. IC is a very good teacher...

2. It is very difficult - if not impossible - to get into someone else's head. The fact that you're asking the question "What is __ thinking" is the best indicator that you are not in a place to make sense of the answer, even if one were provided.

3. IC doesn't tell the future, it tells the present -- as explained above in 10.

I believe there are no "rules" or beginners mistakes other than ....

The notion that there is "no rules" is like saying "there's no wrong way to play the piano." There may be no "wrong" ways, but not all ways are equal, and some are distinctly better. What does any good teacher do? Establish a good foundation for your practice. Then you are free to explore and take the whole endeavor into new realms. Thrash about in a wholly undisciplined manner and the likelihood of getting anything useful falls to next-to-nothing.

I am constantly confused why some feel the need to tell someone else they can't ask certain questions or consult in a certain way??

People come here for advice. No one is served by not receiving basic instruction on how to proceed in the practice of IC. Often new readers admit that they are having difficulty making any sense of anything. A warm fuzzy "Whatever you do will be fine, whatever you think will be fine" is not particularly useful.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well. Doing well requires discipline. IC teaches a highly disciplined, practical way of living. Approach it humbly and sincerely, follows its advice, and life goes remarkably smoothly. Or continue to be ruled by your ego, and live from one crisis to the next...

 

[alev]

ahhh, thank you for clarifying that these are your rules and it seems that you feel that are the best way to consult the i ching. And they probably are...for YOU. To say your way is superior to all others is incorrect and egotistical.I think you are missing the point of what I am saying. You are entitled to your opinion but you must realize it is only an opinion, not the final law of the matter! And I think to say that just because someone doesn't follow the guidelines that you use that they "Thrash about in a wholly undisciplined manner" is extremely condescending, as is to suggest that if they don't ask questions in the manner you prefer that they are looking for a warm fuzzy answer!
It is always helpful to hear others viewpoints and suggestions but to belittle people and condemn their methods of use is not very nice at all. I felt the entire post you just wrote was ruled by YOUR ego.

 

[lamethy]

I have a question about choosing a question
Let's say I've started to try to seduce her. Is "How does she react to this?" is a well chosen question?
But let's say that I haven't tried yet and I ask "How will she react if I try?"
The latter is not as good as the previous one, given the different situations.

Am I right?

 

[elias]

@ alev: How about refuting my arguments rather than engaging in a personal attack?

@lamethy: Your motives are suspect if you're intending to "seduce" someone, as this implies an unequal relationship. I Ching is always about finding balance in every aspect of one's life and waiting for the correct moment -- as in the Marrying Maiden.

If you want to restore a relationship, you might ask "What will be the consequence of [some projected action]. Most likely the response will be variations of "be yourself, let others go their own way. What is yours will come to you." Which leads to rules 4, 5, and 6...

 

[Trojina]

I have a question about choosing a question
Let's say I've started to try to seduce her. Is "How does she react to this?" is a well chosen question?
But let's say that I haven't tried yet and I ask "How will she react if I try?"
The latter is not as good as the previous one, given the different situations.

Am I right?

No I think they are both bad questions

The I Ching is to guide you

You are your business

This is good news because it makes interpreting much easier for you

Ask about what you need to do or how you need to approach and the answer will be much easier to interpret...you'll see




Oh BTW you will still often still get an insight in to her reaction if you ask what you should do. For example if your answer says you should back off you can deduce she would not have been receptive whereas if you had only asked about her reaction it still wouldn't have been quite clear what you should do about it.


Of course this is not a hard and fast 'rule' at all and there are occasions one might usefully ask a question about anothers reactions.....but i find generally they really aren't very useful or economical as 9 times out 10 they can be answering about you not them and you can get confused


If you are ultimately trying to manipulate someone via the I Ching by asking what their reactions will be...it will just backfire on you and you will be lost at sea


that is just my opinion

 

[lamethy]

Thanks to both of you to clear things up for me
I guess I understand better how to use correctly I Ching

 

[Trojina]

I'm not aware of any real "manual," I just started numbering these issues that come up again and again ...

1. Don't ask yes-no questions. (If you want a yes-no answer, flip a coin...) A good teacher makes you think through issues, contemplate the past, and project outcomes, rather than providing a simple answer. IC is a very good teacher...

2. It is very difficult - if not impossible - to get into someone else's head. The fact that you're asking the question "What is __ thinking" is the best indicator that you are not in a place to make sense of the answer, even if one were provided.

3. IC doesn't tell the future, it tells the present -- as explained above in 10.





...

I agree with some of what you say....but you cannot state with any authority that Yi does not deal with the future. Of course it does. Anyone who has consulted for any length of time can clearly see it can and does. Just look around this forum...at the 'aha moments' thread for example......I understand that the first uses of the Yi were practical questions like 'will it rain tomorrow' or 'will the crops come'....got that from Lise i think.

I agree though it more often it seems to give us a picture of the present so we can see the seeds to speak .

As for yes/no questions I ask them all the time and get answers i understand but I agree they may not be very helpful for newbies.


I reckon there may be useful guidelines for newbies on how to use the I Ching but if people have been using it for some time, they develop their own relationship with the oracle, much as after learning to drive, we all drive and handle our cars in our own way... till a passenger gets in and starts telling us how we should drive LOL !!

 

[elias]

I reckon there may be useful guidelines for newbies on how to use the I Ching but if people have been using it for some time, they develop their own relationship with the oracle, much as after learning to drive, we all drive and handle our cars in our own way... till a passenger gets in and starts telling us how we should drive LOL !!

Very true. In time everyone develops an approach and an interpretive strategy that works for them. Nevertheless, a practical foundation is important.

People stopping in for the first time, trying to make sense of an emotional crisis, tend to ask in varying order 1. Will my love come back to me? 2. What does s/he think of me? 3. When will we re-connect?

Such are the queries of an ego trying to bend the universe to her/his will. I've been there more often that I dare admit. IC does not respond to ego, does not do yes/no, does not make unambiguous declarations about the future. The only sensible and humane step in addressing individuals in crisis is to encourage them to reframe their questions into something that IC can address. This leads them to a more objective understanding of the issues in and behind their relationships. That breakthrough, when one can finally, for a moment, take an objective breath, is when healing begins and progress toward a solution (with or without that lost love) can get underway.

I hesitated quite a while before deciding to post this observation: This community is still recovering from the injuries caused by an individual who, with little or no grounding in conventional IC practice, cultivated an "intuitive" approach to readings. The consequences are available for review in the archives. One can only wonder what damage was done to relationships among innocent seekers by the specious advice, what numbers of people were wholly turned off to the I Ching by what they encountered here, what emotional distress was suffered by those who worked in building this community over the years and who must have agonized about how to rein in this individual.

Ergo: Foundation, process, discipline, are important. It is not too much to recommend to a beginner that she/he learn how to approach IC in an appropriate manner. It is not too much of experienced users to ask of one another the logic and process behind some novel interpretation, and to challenge those notions which land well outside a 3000 year old tradition.

To do otherwise invites a very slippery slope, as has been experienced here in the recent past.

 

[lamethy]

...
The only sensible and humane step in addressing individuals in crisis is to encourage them to reframe their questions into something that IC can address. This leads them to a more objective understanding of the issues in and behind their relationships. That breakthrough, when one can finally, for a moment, take an objective breath, is when healing begins and progress toward a solution (with or without that lost love) can get underway.
...

That's what I feel now. I feel more at ... peace?. Taking some distance, focusing on myself and having a calm mind have great effects on me.
And that comes from reframing my questions.
I can't say I'm totally healed, but I'm feeling a lot better.