Addicted to Yi?

[youngmaid]

The I Ching is like family: it loves unconditionally, it nurtures you, it slaps you in the face when you need a reality check and it irritates the hell out of you.

After recent divinations, I'm beginning to think of how the Yi has infiltrated my diurnal existence. Recently, I've been consulting it nearly everyday. In the past, I only did a check-in every now and then. I'm starting to think, is it possible to be addicted to the Yi? When is enough enough?

My practice has evolved recently. I'm getting the trigrams and the hexagrams on levels that I thought comprehension would never touch. It's incredible, enlightening: a straight up boon.

But, recently, I've been asking about one topic specifically, and the Yi refuses to answer my question. Flat out. It's like, seriously, I'm not addressing the issue, still yourself and stop asking. My ego finds this irritating, so through an iniquitous impulse (that I know is wrong and that my mind and heart don't sanction), I ask again. And, as I intuited beforehand correctly, it will not answer my question.

So, I'm thinking: is the I Ching like a drug? Do I need to put the pipe down or keep smokin'? Talking with the universe is beautiful, but, sometimes, could the conversation be too much of a good thing?

Of course, I'm the abuser in the situation and I'm totally to blame, but I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences?

 

[arabella]

Well, the Yi does advocate ultimately for balance. So that must be an element of enquiry as well. The big temptation is that the more you practice -- as with anything -- the better you become at predicting and divining. That can be translated into your life in the main, however. By that I mean, as you absorb some of the wisdom, living can be easier on the whole. You can begin to answer questions -- or what would have been questions -- based on experience you've had already with the IChing. It doesn't require another casting.

As you get in sync with the IChing it is terribly tempting to cast questions all day long. After all, if you had a friend or relative with such wisdom, wouldn't you want to get constant clarification from them? And one question leads to another. And, like the IChing, sooner or later, they'd throw up the Hex 4 reaction: ENOUGH ALREADY! Even that is built into the ancient book.

Yes, you can definitely have too much of a good thing. And the fact that you're raising this question would suggest to me that you already have gleaned a great deal of wisdom -- enough to know that there is a time to put the coins down and just live out the benefit of lessons learned.

 

[Tohpol]

Well, the Yi does advocate ultimately for balance. So that must be an element of enquiry as well. The big temptation is that the more you practice -- as with anything -- the better you become at predicting and divining. That can be translated into your life in the main, however. By that I mean, as you absorb some of the wisdom, living can be easier on the whole. You can begin to answer questions -- or what would have been questions -- based on experience you've had already with the IChing. It doesn't require another casting.

As you get in sync with the IChing it is terribly tempting to cast questions all day long. After all, if you had a friend or relative with such wisdom, wouldn't you want to get constant clarification from them? And one question leads to another. And, like the IChing, sooner or later, they'd throw up the Hex 4 reaction: ENOUGH ALREADY! Even that is built into the ancient book.

Yes, you can definitely have too much of a good thing. And the fact that you're raising this question would suggest to me that you already have gleaned a great deal of wisdom -- enough to know that there is a time to put the coins down and just live out the benefit of lessons learned.

Yes. The IC will certainly lay it on the line if there's too much ego involved.

It also depends entirely what life experience you are undergoing. If you are following Taoist teachings to the letter, as it were, then there are times when you need the I Ching to guide you through the hard battles with the ego and the commensurate tests and lessons that come with any genuine teaching. It just isn't possible to do it otherwise - at least it's not possible to attain sufficient objectivity and clarity to navigate through these periods without some guiding support whether a network comprised of folks doing the same thing (rare to find) or simply the I Ching and cultivating trust and faith in that process which is after all a code revealing the fundamental Process of living the Way.

Make no mistake, the more you use the I Ching deeply and sincerely I believe this is like a signal that is set up saying: "OK. I want to learn. Universe. Give me what I need to learn." ANd it will. It just won't be what the ego wants it'll be what the soul needs to increase the connection to the personality. That brings with it certain obligations and choices.

So, begin the dialogue with the I Ching with intensity if you like but there will be repercussions! lol. That I can vouch for!

Topal

 

[meng]

My practice has evolved recently. I'm getting the trigrams and the hexagrams on levels that I thought comprehension would never touch. It's incredible, enlightening: a straight up boon.

But, recently, I've been asking about one topic specifically, and the Yi refuses to answer my question. Flat out. It's like, seriously, I'm not addressing the issue, still yourself and stop asking.

That's cool when the first part happens, frustrating when the second part happens. But together they're better than if neither happens.

If our holistic well being has anything to do with Yi's intention, it won't always make answers easy, nor even accessible. Would you, if the same person repeatedly approached you on a subject? Some things we have to figure out for ourselves, and that is something Yi intelligence would know, and I think would filter itself out of the picture.

Joseph Campbell explains the guru who people come to for answers. The guru has a tiny hammer, and taps the man's ego, cracking the ego's shell. But along comes new people from the west, and he taps, and taps, but still the ego doesn't crack.

I am squeamish about even using words like "ego", because it has so many ideas added to it, or taken from it. I like the guru's tiny hammer and ego, because it doesn't cast negativism on ego. Ego is as a shell, and it's necessary to keep everything intact and operational. The object isn't to destroy it, but to provide a way for the bird to escape the shell. If it doesn't open, it's probably too thick and heavy, like 52.

I believe that Yi can't become a real compulsion; it will chase you away first in boredom, disgust, frustration or insanity. My first Wilhelm, wherein everything was eventually underlined and highlighted, was torn asunder, page by page. I had to do that to move on in life. It returned to me many moons after, though the analogies and trigrams were always circulating in my mental processes during the Yi-inactive years. Once you see it, you can never entirely forget it. The ti-ming was perfect to reenter to continue the journey forward with fuller concentration and devoted interest. It still blows my mind.

 

[Trojina]

But, recently, I've been asking about one topic specifically, and the Yi refuses to answer my question. Flat out. It's like, seriously, I'm not addressing the issue, still yourself and stop asking. My ego finds this irritating, so through an iniquitous impulse (that I know is wrong and that my mind and heart don't sanction), I ask again. And, as I intuited beforehand correctly, it will not answer my question.

So, I'm thinking: is the I Ching like a drug? Do I need to put the pipe down or keep smokin'? Talking with the universe is beautiful, but, sometimes, could the conversation be too much of a good thing?

Of course, I'm the abuser in the situation and I'm totally to blame, but I wonder if anyone else has had similar experiences?

Yes. The IC will certainly lay it on the line if there's too much ego involved.

It also depends entirely what life experience you are undergoing. If you are following Taoist teachings to the letter, as it were, then there are times when you need the I Ching to guide you through the hard battles with the ego and the commensurate tests and lessons that come with any genuine teaching.




Topal

I'm questioning this linking this attitude to the ego with Taoism...mainly because I've recently been reading someones work who seems fairly knowlegable about Taoism and says Westerners perceptions of what Taoism says about ego is very much distorted. This whole 'doing battle' with the ego, he says, is a western misunderstanding of Eastern thought in general. A human being needs an ego and mostly it is a case of needing a stronger ego not a weaker one. A more integrated ego is in a better place to make decisions and to take responsibility for choices.

When people speak of the ego like its a bad thing to be banished i think they are really referring to maybe pride or conceit or other things...but to to function as a human being an ego is essential.

Heres mine on a good day (evil little critter as you can see)

Re the question re dependence..I actually think one can get addicted to pretty much anything if one has an addictive personality..but i think everyone over doses on questions at some time especially when starting. In pre computer days however people did it in the privacy of their own home with the curtains closed...these days people seem to OD in public on SR so theres usually someone hinting at them enough is enough...but in the old days one could go on through the night...no wiser at 4am than at 1am

These days I find consulting quite tiring mentally/psychically. That is I don't feel I can ask too many questions at once without feeling energetically frazzled..and this reminds me of what Luis says about how the very act of consulting changes things...on a quantum level. Well to me I sense consulting can change things vibrationally around me. Its not a 'dead' act, i think energy is changed/enlivened, i don't know how to put it, these words aren't quite right..but I think if you are engaging with the Yi it can be quite intense and impact on you so I naturally now regard consulting as something I keep energy for.
Hence if theres something i really want to ask I have to let my 'Yi energy' go to that and make the smaller decisions by myself. otherwise my small psyche gets deluged and swept downstream lol


In connection with your question I have wondered if those who are attracted to the Yi find it uncomfortable to make decisions for themselves as there sometimes seems to creep into peoples language about it this sense of permission seeking..which I actually try to steer clear of. For example some people might say "Yi likes this option for me" or "Yi told me I must not do this..." and I'm thinking actually Yi doesn't like any option for us..its not running our lives, we are.

I personally think its a good idea to make some decisions all by yourself, particularly if you are quite sure what you want to do. I think it can be over used if instead of following what you really want you always ask Yi first. Isn't this like running to mum to ask permisssion ? I think so. I think people can get a bit dependent that way...which is their choice of course but for myself theres certainly times even with important decisions its important for me to seek no authority outside myself...and that feels good

I think the whole subduing the ego thing can get a bit mixed up with being a 'good boy/girl' and asking permission. I don't think the Yi is for getting permission at all. Its something we have access to , to use, to clarify and so on but I don't think we should fall into a seeking 'permission' mindset. When the Yi appears not be answering or you feel its not answering, what is answering/will answer is probably your own self/mind doing its own work, not needing the Oracle at that time . maybe the oracle 'knows' that


sorry for rambling response, but i think it an interesting question becasue of all methods of divination I'm sure the Yi is the one where an addiction dynamic can creep in. Like when i was younger I never asked tarot loads of questions or any other method but I can recall running to the Yi like a drug and compulsively asking it stuff over and over. Maybe this is because the Yi feels so much more like a direct dialogue than the Tarot..it much more like someone talking back to you..its like someones there..so if you have this problem you can't talk about to someone you can go to the Yi. But where that backfires is for example where all your friends are sick and tired of your relationship problem so you can't talk about it to them...which naturally may help you to let go of it...but you can keep on going on about it to the Yi and it seemingly has to answer....but of course it doesn't after a while, you go round and round in cirlces with your own projections...but someone did say once, thats actually possibly a natural stage in developing a connection with the Yi. Overuse is possibly a natural stage everyone goes through...so don't feel bad YoungMaid !

 

[Tohpol]

I'm questioning this linking this attitude to the ego with Taoism...mainly because I've recently been reading someones work who seems fairly knowlegable about Taoism and says Westerners perceptions of what Taoism says about ego is very much distorted. This whole 'doing battle' with the ego, he says, is a western misunderstanding of Eastern thought in general. A human being needs an ego and mostly it is a case of needing a stronger ego not a weaker one. A more integrated ego is in a better place to make decisions and to take responsibility for choices.

When people speak of the ego like its a bad thing to be banished i think they are really referring to maybe pride or conceit or other things...but to to function as a human being an ego is essential.

Heres mine on a good day (evil little critter as you can see)

Completely agree. A healthy ego is absolutely essential. I remember saying that many times to underline the fact that when one says "ego" it doesn't mean an integrated one. So, naturally, when I refer to the ego in that sense I'm not referring to it as integrated. Therefore, sure, banishing the ego is not possible nor desirable.

The way I view the ego or let's say the Personality as opposed to the "higher" or noble aspects that we can embody is like a petulant child. It is unruly and spolit, always reacting, needing and wanting, wanting, wanting. And these reactions are enmeshed in the biological/neurological and cellular body. All our imprinting as children, trauma and pleasure alike, are bound up in this package. Western esoteric traditions and even siberian shamanistic traditions talk of doing "battle with the dragon" where the language is very graphic using the metaphors of blood and stripping the flesh in a cauldron (very 50) and as such is very much part of the Alchemical tradition. It depends entirely what focus I think you come from.

In some writings there is a "path of the heart" that is slow, over many lives or a "long wave cycle" so to speak. The wise old guy in the mountains alone, or those monks or Nuns following specific traditions far from urban environments. Then there are traditions less well known where those are on a "short wave cycle" where you're still in the cut and thrust of life and where the dragon / ego is to be shocked out of it's hold on the growth of the soul where all the accumulated layers of conditioning and hurt is stripped away - a rebirth or born again in the Christian sense. Not an easy path at all, where the individual can elect to "speed up" the rate of learning. Conscious "suffering" is taken on as a process of friction and heat as the ego is brought into line and the soul's influence is allowed to become dominant.

But even on this path, the ego is not seen to be discarded or denied, merely shown who is the boss. That certainly doesn't mean any kind of ascetic tendencies or undue stifling of natural desires but it does mean exerting some form of discipline aligned to certain accepted principles. For example, Taoism incorporates detachment as one way to lessen the ego/ personality's influence over our thoughts and actions. Does the ego control the choices or are we slowly attempting to change the reins of control over to the idea of the soul? That detachment doesn't come easily as we know. And we can only become detached while still retaining compassion when we let go of wanting to control and control stems from the ego taking pole position.

So, while distortions do exist certainly, I think this is one more of misinterpretation as to particular focus / paths. That's the way I see it.

Topal