All that stuff (about a dream)

[svenrus]

On the early morning on 9' of september I woked up from a dream, more spectacular than usual. I began doing my morning-things just wondering about it. It felt very like a 'warningthing' I'd experienced here. In the dream my flat was systematical destroyed, by a military-looking big person, including my dear cellphone, photocamera and computer. At a later moment a little pitiful-like person helped me out of it, and on into safety in another flat; I also remember that this creature, he or she, died there...
There was a lot more in the dream, but this is what I remembered when later in the morning I decided to write it down.
So, still wondering with a feeling that this dream could as well be a serious warning, I asked I Ching: What is the meaning of this dream ?

I threw the die, as I've been used to for the last many month, and got (from below) 8-8-8-7-6-7 which is: hex. 35.5 to 12 (Nuclear hex. 39).

In hex. 35 I couldn't in any way find this terrible dream reflected. But in hex. 12 !!! To me it's like hex. 12 represents the dream in itself and hex. 35 may then be what I should lead out of the dream (?)

Remembering that the dream was about all of my stuff being taken away from me (destroyed) I looked one more time when reading Kerson Huangs notice to hex. 35 on the fifth line:
"Whatever is truly yours can never be lost, for it will always find its way back into your life." The linestatement is more or less telling the same...

The nuclear hexagram, 39, is what I guess is what I Ching is reflecting on and in Kerson Huangs translation the tag is Admonishment; I Ching is responding to an admonishment: The dream seen as an admonishment ?

Anyway hex. 35, the mainhexagram, is talking about advance; so: was the dream - out of what I Ching tells me - an admonishment to me that I better should move on, get free of my attachment to what I find dear which maybe is an illusional state of mind: those things maybe only is dear in my fantasy but not in reality seen from a higher level of consiousness ?

I can only guess here.

 

[anemos]

Could it be that you are a bit harsh on your self in regards to your attachements ?

Those stuff could represent other dear things to you, not necessary tangible, and that evil man the destroyer takes them away. The one saves you is pitiful.

 

[sooo]

What immediately stands out to me are symmetry and military man. Neither are natural. Squares and rectangles are not found in nature, they are man made. I interpret the dream as encouragement or a progressive way to perceive life from a natural and organic perspective. The person you perceived as little and pitiful turns out to be your savior, their place being where your original image of the "great man" died.

 

[sooo]

 

[svenrus]

Anemos and Sooo: Where in the hexagram do You find this savior represented ? The fifth line of hex 35 ???

 

[sooo]

Anemos and Sooo: Where in the hexagram do You find this savior represented ? The fifth line of hex 35 ???

From your account of the dream:

At a later moment a little pitiful-like person helped me out of it, and on into safety

Line 5 does speak of someone who seems quite Buddha-like, a modest sage.

The situation described here is that of one who, finding himself in an influential position in a time of progress, remains gentle and reserved. He might reproach himself for lack of energy in making the most of the propitiousness of the time and obtaining all possible advantage. However, this regret passes away. He must not take either loss or gain to heart; they are minor considerations. What matters much more is the fact that in this way he has assured himself of opportunities for successful and beneficent influence.

 

[svenrus]

First: thanks for response. I felt this dream as it was a warning.... But I also know that feelings can make tricks with You. Maybe the dream wasn't a warning after all. It could have had a practical function in working out my daily anxiety in if everything will go well for little me. So that this archetype, the "budha" or "savior" wasn't anything else than my wish to survive represented.
On the contrary I wanted I Ching, if it could spread light wether it was a serious warning or not...

I like Your description on the fifth line hex. 35 Sooo

:bows:

(also noticed that hex. 12 represents autumn equinox. which happens in September)

 

[anemos]

What immediately stands out to me are symmetry and military man. Neither are natural. Squares and rectangles are not found in nature, they are man made. I interpret the dream as encouragement or a progressive way to perceive life from a natural and organic perspective. The person you perceived as little and pitiful turns out to be your savior, their place being where your original image of the "great man" died.

What I have embolden, feels as the core of this dream. If it's OK with Svenrus, could you please elaborate it a bit. I like it a lot yet not sure I understand it completely.

The fact that the savior died, brought the thought that even gains as impermenant, but I feel it's not what the dream says.

 

[anemos]

I had to press quickly the submit button because my tablet was doing some weird things. First thought was " oh no" and other catastrophic thoughts. It's a tool for me and replacement is not easy at the moment. It's that survival instinct that kicks in in zero seconds.

The irony is that I wanted to say to svenrus, that losses and gains have nothing to do with his value but a few seconda before saying it, I feel short to support it, and I ask myself: is that the advise of h12?

 

[sooo]

There are a few things about this I'd like to share.

First, I agree with you, Svenrus; feelings can be tricky about what we dream. On one hand they can be a key to understanding them, on the other hand, they can be the very feeling the sub or unconscious is attempting to influence or change or awaken us to.

Second, I implied that it wasn't the "great man" who died but Sven's original idea of who or what the great man was or represented, namely those mechanical and linear machines or even ideas, images - as I depict by that large robotic man-made and outwardly powerful but destructive "creature". As in 34.3 - the inferior man works through power. He had the power to destroy those devices because he is a device himself.

Third, just want to clarify, I didn't write those words on 35; they are Wilhelm's commentary on the line.

And lastly, in dreams, usually the place where you live is your whole body, including your idea of yourself, your consciousness, your perceptions, inside your head.

The impending danger you sense could actually be felt as a threat to you, but that may not be the true you (like the original image of the great man). The true you may be that small figure, represented in line 5, who lives without those devices, figuratively. The empowerment shifts from an image of structural and technological power to one of outwardly meek but inwardly strong intuitive power.

I view such a dream as your own oracle, from where your entire message is transferred. The Yi reading only clarifies or confirms those impressions.

While on the Yi reading, 12 are primal forces which move away from one another. This could represent a departure of your old way, so no wonder that it feels threatening, but 35.5 could represent in its place a more perfect union, turning separation into great expansion, as the physical universe itself is doing, or to use a Buddhist metaphor, one with everything.

 

[sooo]

A Buddhist walks up to a hot dog stand and says, "make me one with everything."

 

[svenrus]

......... The true you may be that small figure, represented in line 5, who lives without those devices, figuratively......

That's what I thought too. Maybe even it is my soul, poor/pitty because I don't pay respect to it as I should (Centered in the Fire-trigram above the Earth-trigram in hex. 35 - Fire meant here as Light/enlightment) and it evolves to the Heaven-trigram (in secondary hex. 12) but Heaven outside versus Earth inside or: Heaven above Earth.... and there it passes away/dies.
- But I'm still not clear about the importance of this spectacular dream. I Ching tells me: Don't worry (Hex. 35.5) because You won't loose what's really It ie Your soul, what is truly You/Yours....

 

[sooo]

Great sensations in dreams seem to typically be toned down by Yi's input on them. I think Yi tends to do that in general, and line 5 is a perfect example of it. In fact the dream itself seems also to say the same.

 

[sooo]

Since the Buddha image has become part of this conversation, it's relevant to mention one of the ten hand gestures he's depicted with, called a mudra. "Abhaya is translated from Sanskrit as fearlessness. The Abhaya mudra is made with the open palm of the right hand extending outwards at the chest level or slightly higher. If you look at this Buddha hand gesture, or mudra, you will also feel the energy of protection, peace and a sense of strong, deep inner security." I love how Joseph Campbell paraphrases this mudra as "nothing is happening." This image is depicted during the Tibetan Buddhist Bardo while encountering wrathful and frightening deities. It is also demonstrated by Hindu gods, like Krishna and Ganesh (Ganesha).

 

[svenrus]

The buddha reminds me of what the ancient inhabitants of Eastern Island was called: The long-ears...

But, I know, it's out of the theme

 

[moss elk]

Svenrus, how did you feel in the dream?
(Because your description of it was very cold and dry... matter of fact, like an observer.)

I've learned to pay more attention to my feelings in dreams, they are more readily informative than the images.
The images are important also, but without the feelings, we can speculate much that doesn't get to the core.
Sometimes we have dreams with universal images that can be understood, but sometimes the images are completely personal or random and can only be understood by how we felt when experiencing them.
That's why those dream interpretation dictionaries are 99% crap.
If it really was a warning dream, you would feel things, fear, intentions from the players, something visceral, tension and so on.

@sooo,
So he handed the vendor a twenty and was given a hotdog, but no change.
"Hey, where is my change?", he demanded.
Vendor, "Change has to come from within."

 

[Tim K]

I find 35.5 a perfect fit for your dream
35.5 → 12 (Stagnating), Richmond:
Regret disappears.
Heed not gain or loss, it is movement that brings good fortune.
Everything is furthered.

Even if some outside power (military, police, government, or God) takes your things away there will always be help available, and new venues to explore. You have been given a new flat after all.
The dream does stem from your fear of losing something tangible, or a control of a situation.
But it also provides the means of dealing with it - hope and promise of help.

12 asks to accept the obstruction.
Richmond:
The top three lines, representing our outer attention, our identity and our inner being, are all yang; we are not very aware therefore of the life force as it manifests. Where we are not aware we are not changed and this tao is commonly named "standstill".

Activity is stilled in the outer world, structured in our personal self and leaves the inner being unchanged, so the activity of this tao makes for rigid rules which inhibit change - our structure becomes so firm that the life force does not flow in it and stagnation occurs. The flow shows that it is not strictly the tao enforcing standstill in identity, it is equally the rigidity of our identity, roles we play, stances we habitually take up. To be free of these is to have freedom.
Rules - logic - square flat - I think there is a connection between these.

Be ready to move when the time comes, to let go of possessions and ideas.

 

[sooo]

@sooo,
So he handed the vendor a twenty and was given a hotdog, but no change.
"Hey, where is my change?", he demanded.
Vendor, "Change has to come from within."

I heard it was a tofu dog. But good one on the change!

As mentioned earlier, feelings of dreams can be very tricky. They are not always telling of meaning, only the feeling about the meaning. Very much as Yi's answers can be. They are still import to note though, either way.

 

[svenrus]

Svenrus, how did you feel in the dream?
(Because your description of it was very cold and dry... matter of fact, like an observer.)
"

Off course I was terified, but not like a nightmare... Details, emotional, has gone by now but for sure I wasn't an observer to what happened in this dream - I participated until I woked up.
But what I care about is, again: what did I Ching (not Freud, Jung or any other psyciatrist) say about it.

 

[moss elk]

But what I care about is, again: what did I Ching (not Freud, Jung or any other psyciatrist) say about it.

Maybe you know this tidbit: Jung used Yi to help his patients.

Back to your request: The continuance of life is what matters, not temporary highs and lows. You are the only one who can know if there is a deep meaning there.

 

[sooo]

But what I care about is, again: what did I Ching (not Freud, Jung or any other psyciatrist) say about it.

That's fine, of course. This is an I Ching site after all, but just remember, the Yi is a device. I think the dream was pointing to your own inner resources. I think Yi's answer affirmed that.

The noble one displays his bright character himself - LiSe 35

 

[sooo]

And btw, Svenrus, no one mentioned Jung or Freud or psychiatrists in this thread but you, other than Moss' response to your mention.

 

[Trojina]

I've only skimmed the thread, maybe someone already said this, but the dream and reading seem to point to a fear of loss of status. Yi seems to confirm this loss is actual but not to mind. I've seen 35.5 come up at times one might say "how can I not mind that loss ?!" but in the long run you find you actually don't and Yi was right

So you have all this fear in the dream which looks to me to be something around self image, feeling small or pathetic and yes there is some loss, it isn't imaginary...yet it doesn't matter. It's just okay.