Am bewildered - 28.4

[Liselle]

Earlier today, I committed to doing something tonight and then quickly regretted it, as I've been very busy this week and was/am exhausted. It wasn't really possible to back out, at least not without causing significant problems for other people, and ill will towards me.

I said to Yi, "I wish I hadn't done that...," which was more a weary sigh than anything. Yi gave me 28.4 > 48:

"The ridgepole at its peak, good fortune.
If there is more, shame." (Hilary Barrett)​

which I thought (and still do think) was a simple statement that since there was no need to take on another committment (this was completely voluntary), I shouldn't have done so. I thought it was probably also meant to be kept in mind for the future - don't reflexively say yes to something when you don't have to, if you're not feeling up to it. (I'm not constantly over-committing, so it wasn't that Yi was addressing a chronic problem.)

Getting myself to the engagement was an utter nightmare, and made me regret even more that I agreed to it.

Once I was there, though, I found something out which I think is really crucial for me to know. If I hadn't gone, I probably would never have gotten the information. I consider it important enough to outweigh the real, though not gargantuan, harm that was caused by going. (I can't know that for sure because other things have to happen before I could make use of the information, and those things are not guaranteed. But I consider it a 'good enough' chance.)

Doesn't Yi have ways of saying that something good will come of what seems like something bad? Or, that line about "strength of a horse," in other words, pushing myself was the right thing to do? Or something more relevant than "You shouldn't have done that"? I mean, what if I would have really taken 28.4 to heart and cancelled the activity, brushing off the problems cancelling would have caused? I wouldn't have gotten the important information!

Help, anyone?

(As an aside, I asked, "What say you about me posting this on the forum?" Answer: 17.5.6>21:

17.5
"True and confident in excellence.
Good fortune."

17.6
"Seized and bound to it,
And so joining and connected to it,
The king makes offering on the Western mountain."

Okay then!)

 

[pocossin]

I thought (and still do think) was a simple statement that since there was no need to take on another committment (this was completely voluntary), I shouldn't have done so.

But you cannot help yourself. You are a supportive person, and when asked for support, could not refuse, an Atlas holding up the organization.

Hatcher on line 4:

The ridgepole holds up
Promising
To take much more, then deficiency

 

[cjgait]

Well, I don't really have a spot in the Yi I can think of is a 'silver lining' point, but I do have a translation for that divination in the Jiao Shi Yi Lin (The Garden of Changes). If anything, it's more foreboding than the one you got from the Yi:

28 - 48

Benevolence betrayed and morality wounded,
Heaven withholds its blessings.
The Gods of Land and Grain are bereft of power,
Their territory lost.

For you putting the posting up:

17 - 21

The horses, white and red and piebald,
Breed without ceasing.
The businessman's wealth
Piles up like a mountain.

 

[Liselle]

Hatcher on line 4:

The ridgepole holds up
Promising
To take much more, then deficiency

Pocossin, are you interpreting this as saying that the ridgepole would hold up to last night's activity, but that I shouldn't add any more to my week after last night? In other words, I thought the reading was telling me that I shouldn't have taken on last night's committment, but maybe it was shifted one step ahead of that, if you see what I mean. Is that what you're saying?

Or...

you cannot help yourself

...and Yi knew that - it knew I'd go anyway - and therefore it didn't matter what reading it gave me? I certainly hope not?

"Benevolence betrayed and morality wounded,
Heaven withholds its blessings.
The Gods of Land and Grain are bereft of power,
Their territory lost."

Yes, you're right, that is even more scary, and, actually, a better description of the harm that was caused by me going anywhere last night. (I mean, no one died. But there was real harm that went beyond just me being tired.) As Pocossin said, I kept my committment because being tired was not a good enough reason to renege once I had agreed to do it. But if I'd seen the translation Cjgait quoted, I might have been much more inclined to cancel, without caring whether people were miffed at me. ("Mortally wounded"? That comes pretty close to "Do not leave the house, period."). Then I would have avoided the harm, but missed the potentially crucial information.

This is one of those times where I just feel like I got the wrong reading...overall I'm glad I went, because I think the information I got is potentially that important. But the reading seems (1) not really on point, and (2) something that could have led me astray (caused me not to get the information).

Another question then is how to see this as an example of 28.4, when I or other people get that line in the future. Do we conclude that it depends on where you anchor it (in the current event, or shifted forward or something)? Or what? And if it's an anchoring decision, I don't see how I could have made that call. Another perfectly reasonable way to look at might have been that if I tried to keep my committment in my exhausted condition, I would have been ineffective and caused more problems than I was worth (too tired to think straight, etc. That has happened before.) I could have interpreted it that way based only on the information I had ahead of time (being exhausted), without any knowledge of what else would happen (the harmful incident, the information).

 

[Trojina]

Doesn't Yi have ways of saying that something good will come of what seems like something bad? Or, that line about "strength of a horse," in other words, pushing myself was the right thing to do? Or something more relevant than "You shouldn't have done that"? I mean, what if I would have really taken 28.4 to heart and cancelled the activity, brushing off the problems cancelling would have caused? I wouldn't have gotten the important information!

I'm well and truly baffled as to why 28.4 means for you you should have cancelled ? I see it 28.4 as 'yes you do have the strength to do this but don't load any more on yourself'. I mean the ridgepole is upheld, it isn't falling down. Phew you can manage it, you can manage this but be mindful, young lady you were pushing it a bit and you know you were...but you get away with it this time.

'The ridgepole at it's peak, good fortune.
If there is more, shame'

Hilary's book.

If I had committed to something and got this I'd go along feeling yes I can sustain this but probably not too much more. I'd see this line as a confidence booster. It really doesn't say 'you shouldn't have done that'.

Although I guess I can see how you take the answer all depends on the level of exhaustion you feel. I often have to consider how much I can handle so I guess if I was really over loaded I might think I was pushing my luck...but then I think the line favours pushing one's luck to just the right amount. beyond that there is shame as the line says.

It reminds me a little of the feeling of 10.4

 

[pocossin]

I thought the reading was telling me that I shouldn't have taken on last night's committment

Wasn't there some satisfaction in the feeling that you had done your duty?

 

[Liselle]

I'm well and truly baffled as to why 28.4 means for you you should have cancelled ?

Hi, Trojina. I suspect we cross-posted.

When I got the line (already half regretting that I'd taken on this voluntary committment), I interpreted it as "The ridgepole was already at its peak, before tonight..." (I'd already had a very busy week, which was why I was so tired) "...and now you've gone and added more, so you will come to some shame as a result."

But I can see it the other way. As I asked Pocossin in reponse to his comment, it seems like it might depend on what tense you stick in the reading, sort of where you anchor the first line - in the past, or in the present. IOW, when the text says,

"The ridgepole at its peak, good fortune..."

does that mean "If you do this tonight, then the ridgepole will be at its peak, so don't add any more later" or "You already did enough this week. You didn't have to add more, and you shouldn't have." Either of those could have been true.

Actually, both were true, in their own ways. My exhaustion directly contributed to the harmful incident ("shame") which resulted from going. It wouldn't have happened if I hadn't gone, or if I hadn't been so tired. BUT, if I hadn't gone, I would have missed hearing the potentially very important information, which might eventually prove to outweigh everything else.

And also, even if the specific harmful incident hadn't happened, I still might have gotten there and been more trouble than I was worth, just because I was so tired and muddle-headed. Fortunately things went fine, but it was probably worth considering before saying I'd go. It has happened before.

Wasn't there some satisfaction in the feeling that you had done your duty?

There definitely was. And the actual activity went fine. But 28.4 isn't about a sense of pride or a duty to fulfill an obligation, as far as I can tell. And, as I see it now, the real point of the evening wasn't the activity I went there for. That was important in an everyday sort of way, and, thank goodness, I managed to be helpful rather than a hindrance. But the usual activity was completely overwhelmed by (a) the harmful incident, and (b) the piece of information I picked up.

 

[Trojina]

I tend to think we have far more animal sense than we ever give ourselves credit for. I think some part of you knew you were going ( you won't agree but anyway...) and it seems to me from what I have read it was right for you to go even though a strain. I think your answer reflects that perfectly. Even though it was a strain you haven't buckled....flipped out/bombed out...you are here in SR nice and safe if a little worse for wear Also that information was worth the strain for...


I guess also perhaps one needs to consider what the ridgepole is in the question. It might be one's body, one's relationship, one's work situation, one's emotional reserves and so on. I'm not sure what that ridgepole was here. I think you said it was your own energy reserves.

BTW I always tend to take 28.4 as a reassurance....it isn't after all 28.3. In 28.3 the ridgepole doesn't hold up and one miscalculates one's own reserves. One needs to accept help and support. In 28.4 one is in far less danger of miscalculation. Seems to me you'd decided this thing was worth going to. Yi acknowledged the strain but said it was bearable. You wouldn't end up totally squidged.

 

[Trojina]

ps I noticed your language here

BUT, if I hadn't gone, I would have missed hearing the potentially very important information, which might eventually prove to outweigh everything else.

With 28 as an answer for you to use the term 'outweigh'....that you are even speaking in terms of weighing seems illuminating. In 28 often one must 'stand alone' to take a burden or do something important...or perhaps hear something important that changes everything. You see what your answer meant for you is actually being revealed unwittingly by you. Look at that underlined sentence...it is so hex 28ish. Things do feel very important in 28.

 

[Liselle]

I think some part of you knew you were going ( you won't agree but anyway...)

No, I'll agree with that. As I said, when I posed the "question" to Yi, it was more a weary sigh than a real attempt to justify cancelling. Even in a totally normal course of events (without the unusual incidents), cancelling at that point would have caused problems for people.

BTW I always tend to take 28.4 as a reassurance....it isn't after all 28.3. In 28.3 the ridgepole doesn't hold up and one miscalculates one's own reserves. One needs to accept help and support. In 28.4 one is in far less danger of miscalculation. Seems to me you'd decided this thing was worth going to. Yi acknowledged the strain but said it was bearable. You wouldn't end up totally squidged.

Ah . This sounds like the nail on the head which makes sense of things - thank you. I hadn't looked at 28.4 in any context. But when you set it next to 28.3, there is a clear difference. Ta da!

 

[Liselle]

With 28 as an answer for you to use the term 'outweigh'....that you are even speaking in terms of weighing seems illuminating. In 28 often one must 'stand alone' to take a burden or do something important...or perhaps hear something important that changes everything. You see what your answer meant for you is actually being revealed unwittingly by you. Look at that underlined sentence...it is so hex 28ish. Things do feel very important in 28.

Ohhh, another good point, and ways of seeing 28 I'd never thought of. I always just think 28 means I'm going to be stressed and overburdened, but of course there are other aspects - thank you.