An old love

[esolo]

About 10 years ago exactly I met a man that I dated maybe 5 times. Apart from kissing we were never intimate. I broke it off after I discovered that he wasn't entirely truthful with me about some things. It way very hard to do at the time because I really did feel for him. In fact, he was the last man I ever felt that way about. Every now and then I dream of him, sweet dreams of us holding hands, kissing etc. I had another such dream last night. We held hands, embraced, but then he disappeared. I woke up feeling very sad. I've tried to find him, but I've never had any luck. I asked two questions about him:

"Given the fact that 10 years have past, what's his opinion of me now":

59.5 to 4

I also asked,

"At the time we were going out, how did he feel about me?"

32

Thirty-two I understand. At the time I thought he was toying with me, wasn't serious, but this makes it sound like he was after all. I'm a bit crushed by this answer.

The 59.5 stumps me. What should I make of that? I'd like to be able to offer my own interpretation before asking you, but I don't have any thoughts about it at all.

 

[willowfox]

"Given the fact that 10 years have past, what's his opinion of me now":

59.5 to 4

Hex 59.5 after 10 years of separation you have now got the idea to ask about this man, perhaps you are feeling lonely and need something to think about. Your question is asked in vain. The man lives his life, but the line does not indicate that he is thinking about you at all.

Hex 4 suggests that your question is not serious, folly, curiosity to know the unknowable and therefore, no answer regarding your question can be given.

 

[esolo]

You're right. It was a stupid question.

 

[rosada]

I would read Dispersion changing to Youthful Folly as saying he has "Dispersed" his thoughts of you, that is, he no longer thinks of you, but if pressed he would sum up your relationship as having been a "Youthful Folly". The line itself 59.5, "A king abides without blame" makes me feel he considers the break up between the two of you not his fault, or that he was without blame in whatever caused the misunderstandings. It also makes me feel that if you were ever to bump into each other again he holds no negative feelings towards you, does not "blame" you. Perhaps knowing this can help you dissolve, disperse any feelings of having offended The Goddess, that is, know that you did not do this man or yourself irreparable harm by leaving this relationship. This was not your soulmate. Love will come to you again.

 

[esolo]

Your question is asked in vain. The man lives his life, but the line does not indicate that he is thinking about you at all.

Hex 4 suggests that your question is not serious, folly, curiosity to know the unknowable and therefore, no answer regarding your question can be given.

If I thought that he didn't think back to what happened between us from time to time I would NOT have asked the question. I do not consider it unknowable. As for the question not being serious, I can assure you that it WAS.

 

[lightofreason]

"Given the fact that 10 years have past, what's his opinion of me now":

This is a question rooted in security seeking and covers issues of a big betrayal and a need to put up a wall that brings out issues with rejection/rejecting (water trigram).

The suggestion is there is unfinished business here in the context of feeling betrayed and 'testing' the waters again.

"At the time we were going out, how did he feel about me?"

Trust your emotional memory - try

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofitng/icplusEProact.html

What was the core situation - facts/values are reflected here in the intensity of emotion in the eyes. Then comes the focus on NOW(what was/is/will-be or PAST-FUTURE (what could nave been/is-not/could be) and finally his being proactive or reactive, open to you are asserting of himself etc.

you need to focus on the emotions presented in his face that were constant/repeated whenever he saw you and prior to the local dynamics taking over as communication starts. (you can check congruency with emotional tone in words etc)

A base of lake shows a sexual bias (sharing of space, copy, mimic etc but can get into narcissism) - a base of fire shows a more affection bias (being 'like minded' but apart - being 'one of us') etc etc

Chris.

 

[willowfox]

If I thought that he didn't think back to what happened between us from time to time I would NOT have asked the question. I do not consider it unknowable. As for the question not being serious, I can assure you that it WAS.

Hex 59 is dispersion suggesting that he has dispersed all thoughts of you long ago, hey, we are talking 10 years ago here, people move on. Who knows, he could be married, have 6 children and still counting. You say that your affair was very, very brief and nothing serious happened. Like I said before he lives his life somewhere. I consider it unknowable because you have not seen or heard of/from him in 10 years, and how can you know the answer when you will never see him again and the I Ching declines to give any other answer except dispersion, his thoughts of you were forgotten way back when? Recycling the past? What's the point? I wish I had purchased a lottery ticket 7 years ago, but I threw the numbers in the trash, that week all my numbers came up.

 

[rosada]

Willowfox, You had the winning numbers and you didn't play them?!! Boy, that is a hard lesson in learning to let go and move on!

But as far as interpreting the I Ching as advising her that this question is "Foolish", I don't agree. It could equally be argued that 4 simply indicates that HE does not repeatedly question himself about her. The Dispersion line suggests that some great liberating idea is involved with his thoughts of her, which I see as meaning he has totally and completely released any qualms or misgivings about their break up - he's forgiven himself or forgiven her or whatever might have caused any lingering feelings of ill will or unhappiness and therefore it would be Folly for him to be continually rethinking the matter. As to whether it is Folly for her to be asking the question, well that's a whole 'nother question.

esolo, Perhaps it would be useful to explore why this man has come up in your thoughts now. What in your current life is ressonating with this past experience? Or perhaps it would be helpful to ask, "How can I most comfortably store this memory?" That is, ask how you should consider him.

Being told your question is foolish is only helpful when it's helpful. If it's not helpful, it's probably not what you're being told. IMHO.

 

[willowfox]

After years of losing money on the damn lottery, I just thought to myself that I never win, so no point in wasting anymore money on it, then bang. But the point is that there is absolutely no point on dwelling on what might have been. Okay, I not a millionaire but I get by. I can't undo my past mistakes, I can't change them, so the only to do is to forget and hope for some better luck in the future. It is the future that is important not the past, the past is history.

To be honest she sounds lonely and she is looking back 10 years to a brief affair that may have changed her life, in her thoughts she is looking only to a positive outcome to this potential relationship, but what would she feel like today if the man had turned out to be a drunk, felon, wife beater?

After the very brief affair the man moved on, if he had not, then he would have some way to contact her again 10 years ago.

Hex 59.5 says that the guy is blameless because he holds no thought of her.

Hex 4 says youthful folly, a teenagers dreams of Mr.Right, sorry only dreaming.

 

[rosada]

I dunno Willowfox. She didn't ask "Does he think of me?" She asked, "What's his opinion of me now?" You can have an opinion about someone without thinking about them. I mean, if you asked me "What's your opinion of Elizabeth Taylor?" I could give an opinion, but that wouldn't indicate whether I ever think about her. Further, Hex 4 only advises that repeated questioning is inappropriate and esolo has not indicated she has repeatedly asked the I Ching this same question. So to me, hex 4 is simply underscoring the reliablity of the first hexagram's answer, which I feel reads...

Question: What is his opinion of me now?
Answer: 59.5, All is forgiven.

 

[willowfox]

Question: What is his opinion of me now?

Answer: hex 59.5 Who is esolo? I can't remember her.

 

[rosada]

Further thoughts...there seems to be a judgement here that asking about past loves is somehow a sign of weakness...that one should just have a stiff upper lip and move on. I don't see it that way. There's an expression, "The unexamined life is not worth living," and understanding our past relationships can be very necessary to understanding ourselves. I would think this would be especially true when we are the one's who have caused the break up. We could find ourselves feeling toxic, like we could start thinking of ourselves as always hurting the ones we love, and therefore become reluctant to give our love again. Sure, some part of esolo might have been hoping the I Ching would say, "He remembers you fondly," but ultimately to heal her guilt feelings about refusing his love, isn't the most healing responce, "59.9, All is forgiven", the most beautiful, the most helpful, the most loving message he could send to her? So asking this question will hopefully be very freeing for esolo, and thus a very wise question to ask, indeed.

 

[rosada]

Further further thoughts... The hexagram 59 Dispertion is about dissolving misunderstandings, the barriers that separate people, it's not about dissolving the people. Indeed, it maybe 59.9 is actually telling esolo her friend would also be open to connecting with her again.
59.1 Disolving obstructions when they first appear.
59.2 Disolving obstructions within the self (as in a grumpy mood that keeps us separated from others)
59.3 Disolving obstructions of the outer self (as in working without ego, strickly for the greater good.)
59.4 Dissolving obstructions of group ties (as in working without giving special treatment to family or friends)
59.5 A grand idea that dissolves all stuck situations AND creates the potential for recovery, reunion. (I am suggesting that in this instance the idea is FORGIVENESS)
59.6 Being beyond the need for dispersion, i.e. staying out of trouble, keeping at a distance, finding a way out.

 

[esolo]

Question: What is his opinion of me now?

Answer: hex 59.5 Who is esolo? I can't remember her.

what's your problem, *******? as rosada has already pointed out, i did not ask if he thought of me now, but rather, what opinion he holds of me given that he has had time to step back and think about what happeend and how it ended.

what a reception!

 

[esolo]

thank you for your insight rosada. i don't think of this man all the time. every now and then i have a dream about him, that's all. this time, i woke up feeling a bit sad, and decided to ask the i ching about him. however, the sad feeling, fortunately, didn't hang around long.

i too believe that he doesn't hold anything against me. a few years ago i had a very intense dream about him where he hugged me and said, "I'm so sorry for everything" this seems to fit in with 59.5. i think he must understand why i did what i did. i also think that he knows where he was at fault.

 

[willowfox]

You asked:What is his opinion of me *now*?

I answered as I saw it. He does not have an opinion, all water under the bridge.

You said,
what's your problem, *******?

Well, to be quite honest, I have several problems. By the way I hope you spelt ******* correctly.

Have you read the answers that we left you for your questions about contacting the woman and talking to a man that you upset? Perhaps you will be happier with them because they are much more positive and realistic.

 

[esolo]

I have read then, thank you. I will contact the woman this week and report back.

I just didn't like the tone you adopted regarding this question. I'm not falling apart over this man. I simply had a dream and I felt sad about it. I'm not feeling sad now and although it would be nice to see him again, to apologize, straighten things out....I will live if I can't.

 

[willowfox]

"What's done is done, it does not require explanation. What's finished need not be interfered with. What's past cannot be remade, there is no point in fixing the blame."

Confucius

 

[lightofreason]

"What's done is done, it does not require explanation. What's finished need not be interfered with. What's past cannot be remade, there is no point in fixing the blame."

Confucius

We learn from our mistakes, we learn from our suffering - as long as we maintain the cpntext. Lose the context, generalise it to 'never do this' and we move into the realm of neurosis. Applying universals to local events indicates issues with those sorts of events - the universals act to guide the GENERAL and then comes LOCAL context; try to assert the general in a local context as if the local context and it is indicative of having issues, bad experiences from that context that have been generalised.

We can run from our fears but in so doing never face them and deal with them - facing fears is an essential act for refining oneself, to 'fit in', to integrate/re-integrate.

In relationships where there is unfinished business can be useful to reflect upon using all of the hexagrams to allow for some 'out of left field' perspective that can aid in giving some closure.

A fundamental property/methodology of our being is in the use of feedback - the benefits of which out-weigh any costs unless we get morose/depressed to a too high degree.

Confucius appears to fail to understand that and indicates an idealist perspective - which DID drive him in the focus on assertion of a 'correct' way of being regardless of context; to assert one's own context if the 'locals' dont meet his standards... of interest is that the worshiping of ancestors is a worshiping of history and so the past - and so the past DOES require explanation.

In hex 62 we exploit traditions to elicit loyalties to keep the collective together - even if past the 'best before/use by' dates. In 56 we cover particular loyalties working from a distance, be it spacial or temporal.

IOW the dynamics of reflection so opposed are in fact part of our nature - the only issue as such is on use of moderation - and dont let the past rule the present, just guide it, offer a support for it (as in 26)

And so universals operate at the level of the general. Then comes local colour and so context sensitivity (as we use words where they are universals coloured by local emotions to make them particular, unique in turn of phrase. That turn can then become a universal - we move from particular to general - but in doing so it loses its unique context and so is applied as a 'be all' when it is no more than a guide.)

Sometimes wallowing is healthy. ;-)

Chris.

 

[esolo]

I thought that those who responded might like to know what happened with this guy.

Last year I visted the city where I used to live and met up with him. He wasn't holding any grudges against me and readily agreed to meet me for dinner. We met but then it was over and he went back to his life.

So, he definitely remembered me and wanted to see me. But, there wasn't anything there after so long and we parted on friendly terms and do not remain in touch with each other. I believe that he has remarried but didn't want to tell me for some reason. I didn't press the issue as I didn't really care and it was just a friendly dinner.

The meeting helped me get over him. It put the needed closure on the issue.

I think 59.5 as his opinion of me at the time referred to the fact that when we parted our ways initially there were a few "loud cries". I didn't cry or scream at him but I clearly wasn't happy with his behavior at the time. So, his opinion of me was of someone who argued with him and then went her separate way.

 

[Trojina]

Reporting back on the results of a query after 4 years deserves some kind of award doesn't it ? It certainly is a record....so heres an old one as a dedication http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IbvVOgFce4

 

[Trojina]

....and reporting back on a relationship question is even more phenomenal...its a rare event

 

[esolo]

I happened onto the thread by accident and I thought that people might be interested to know how it turned out given the hexagram received.

 

[deusa]

Thank you!
I always try to do that too, to give feed-back.
It would help if more people did the same.