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An oracle for launching a new venture

fkegan

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I am in the midst of launching a new venture of great importance to me. I cast the Yi about my initiative and received hex 44.3,6 becoming hex 47 which strikes me as an oracle with great relevance but also a lot of difficulties. I take to heart the line "When one has something to say, it is not believed" so I am asking for assistance and comments upon my oracle.
 

willowfox

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Hex 44.3 it says that you must consider the situation very carefully indeed in order that you do not make a really bad mistake as it seems temptation is calling out to you but you are feeling frustrated because you are being prevented from following your desire.

Hex 44.6 suggests that it is time to withdraw from this situation that you are in but take no notice of what others say.

Hex 47 stop struggling and give it up for the present time.
 

Sparhawk

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Hi there, are you the same Frank Kegan as this one??

I Ching Primer
Frank R. Kegan
1979 Aries Press
ISBN 0933646038

Cheers,
 

dobro p

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I am in the midst of launching a new venture of great importance to me. I cast the Yi about my initiative and received hex 44.3,6 becoming hex 47 which strikes me as an oracle with great relevance but also a lot of difficulties. I take to heart the line "When one has something to say, it is not believed" so I am asking for assistance and comments upon my oracle.

If by 'initiative' you mean the business venture you mention, then the Yi is giving you a warning not to succumb to some rather powerful temptation that presents itself to you, a temptation which will trap or confine you oppressively.

Okay, so the big question is this - does this refer to the venture itself, or does it refer to something associated with the venture? If it refers to the venture itself, the Yi seems to be saying: "Don't do it, it's a trap." If it refers to something associated with the venture, the Yi's saying the same thing.
 

fkegan

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Discussion of hex 44.3,6 and hex 47

Thank you all for your comments. Yes, I am Frank R. Kegan of I Ching Primer, Oracle Book, Instant Oracle, etc. As well as the Gia-Fu Feng Taoist Translation of the I Ching which Gia-Fu and I worked on in the summer of '74 and I copyrighted in '98 and the venture I am launching involves e-publishing that text among other things.
I traditionally thought of hexagram 44 as rather strange, it refers to a woman who associates with 5 men, thought poorly of in the Confucian commentary though not nowadays. Hexagram 47 is forever a mix of stuff with the image of being a lake exhausted of water but also with the slogan "success" in Wilhelm.
The specific lines are also a bit of a mixed bag. 44.3 speaks of having been earlier a tough time. The thighs flayed (buttocks in Gia-Fu's translation) was one of the many punishments in Imperial China. It speaks of having previously suffered at the hands of establishment officials, but now a time to understand the problem. Neither success nor failure is mentioned. The Wilhelm interpretation follows Confucian commentary that assumes the official punishment is to be accepted as the rule to be followed though the line indicates only that being aware of why it was a problem that is important. Gia-Fu's commentary speaks of "No Big Blame. Inner strength prevails."
Line 6 is even more enigmatic. In Wilhelm it has a judgment of humiliation with the slogan No Blame. In Gia-Fu the comment is: "Overzealous at first, eventually will be free of the petty."
So overall, the question boils down to whether the venture has problems, or just I have problems with folks who react badly to my approach.
 

hilary

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An off-the-wall reading for you: this is an omen for your new venture, because taking this on is like entering into a relationship with a powerful woman. The venture has her qualities: power, allure, unpredictability, and a propensity to turn your life upside down. Don't expect to accept this 'mandate' and have life continue along the same tracks as before. Don't imagine you can 'grasp' and direct it.

Here the strong woman's showing up in an experience of 47 - hard work, oppressive or isolating circumstances, enforced self-reliance, test of character...

The poor man with the skinless backside at line 3 may well be a hero: Yu, whose lifetime of work to conquer the floods left him with no skin on his thighs. So that would be someone who is suffering because he's accepted an important calling. 'Inner strength' it is.

Line 6 is harder, but personally I think it has to do with a last ditch attempt to retake control of the process (and the woman). Maybe you end up compromising because the original vision isn't possible. Not a big mistake.

Sounds like the venture itself is demanding and hard work, in a take-over-your-life kind of way. That doesn't make it the wrong thing to do, however...
 

dobro p

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Hilary, what about 44's 'not employing taking woman'?
 

hilary

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The interesting word in that is 'take'. The Margaret Pearson interview has the full theory, but basically while this word is used to mean 'marry', it also means 'grab, seize by the ear (of an animal or captive)'. Her idea is that the woman is politically important and not to be treated in such a cavalier fashion. It seems to fit with my experience, which is that she can be a bit like a Fate or a Muse, or Lady Luck - not someone you just bring under control and incorporate into your life.

If there were nothing to be done with this woman but avoid her, it's not clear why the lines would be so full of very promising fertility imagery.
 

dobro p

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And so Hex 31's 'take' means the same? The influence *is* to be grasped by the ear and directed? Stop being so passive about this influence and be more proactive? There's an influence at work; seize the day! Is that it?
 

hilary

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I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's certainly logical. It's a different word and different process from the marriage in 53, for instance: that's marriage from the woman's perspective, and to do with finding your place. 31 and 44 are both managing influence, one way or another, and 44 is 31's nuclear hexagram.
 

fkegan

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hex 44 and Lady Luck

Hillary, I was struck most by your mention of Lady Luck in reference to hex 44, since I chose that term as the name for hex 44 in my book I Ching Primer published back in 1979. My new venture involves the Internet or the ultimate adventure in relating to the Global Public and its success will very much be a relationship with that ultimate of powerful women, Lady Luck.
Rudhyar, a French astrologer who settled in the US and popularized Marc Jones Sabian Symbols for the 360 degrees of the Zodiac, published a New Age oriented version (An American Mandala) suggesting their imagery could be used as a kind of I Ching. I took Rudhyar one step further, and back to the Marc Jones roots of the matter by correlating those 360 symbols to the line judgments of the 60 core hexagrams, 3-62 which are also 360 in number. This leaves hex 1,2,63,64 as expressions of the angles in astrology, the markers on the arms of perpendiculars that indicate the overall orientation of the circle or wheel--Heaven, Earth top and bottom, Morning After sunrise (63) and sunset Eve (64).
These two circles of 360 symbols correlate in terms of their fundamental orientation--the Zodiac begins at the left of the circle since all observation of the stars and planets is based upon what is rising at the Eastern horizon. The Yi is structured in terms of growing up from the bottom. This connects 1 Aries to the first line of hexagram 48 and the first line of hexagram 3 to the first degree of Cancer.
The lines 3 and 6 of hexagram 44 then correspond to the Zodiac degrees 9 and 12 Pisces, whose Sabian Symbols are "A tiny jockey from his magnificent horse looks about eagerly and, as the race starts, becomes a god of speed" and "A convocation of the Lodge of Initiates has brought the earth's glorious souls in spirit to examine candidates" respectively.
Again clearly the image of Lady Luck is suggested. Line 3 the passion of Lady Luck and line 6 the flower of Lady Luck. Thus, although the Chinese imagery of the lines refers to a difficult situation, it is also a Cosmically vital and important one.
The first thing I noted with my correlation of the Rudhyar New Age version of the Sabian Symbols to the Wilhelm German Protestant/Confucian version of the Yi was that a line that seemed to indicate danger and humiliation was a degree that spoke of wonderful personal initiative and opportunity to chart a new course. Then I realized both were describing the same situation and process. The Wilhelm speaks in terms of the Ancient Chinese imperial bureaucracy, much the same as all Establishment bureaucracies where personal initiative is never considered anything but misfortune. Rudhyar was emphasizing the hopes of novel opportunities for individual change and personal development of never before contemplated.
My oracle upon my new venture came with a particularly poignant set of imagery between the traditional difficulties of new work for Ancient bureaucrats and the need share the opportunities of this new century, millennium, and Great Age.
 

hilary

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Have you seen LiSe's Sabian Symbol correspondences? They seem to be only partly the same as yours.

I agree with you absolutely that interpretation of 44 depends a whole lot on one's personal values. Between Wilhelm and Karcher on this one, I also arrived at the idea that they were describing the same basic energy, they just had very different ideas about what best to do with it. Withstand the temptation, resist the change, hold to your identity. Welcome the creative force, allow it full access, don't try to stop it and wrestle back control. Neither seems to me to be the One Right Way.
 

Frankelmick

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Frank,

These are fascinating ideas.

Thank you for sharing them.

Just so that I'm clear. Do you take 0 deg Aries - 0 deg 59 mins Aries to correspond to Hx 48 line 1?

Thanks again and best wishes,

Mick
 

dobro p

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I hadn't thought about it that way, but it's certainly logical. It's a different word and different process from the marriage in 53, for instance: that's marriage from the woman's perspective, and to do with finding your place. 31 and 44 are both managing influence, one way or another, and 44 is 31's nuclear hexagram.

31 and 44 talk about 'taking' the woman, 53 talks about 'marrying' the woman, as does 54. I've always thought that the imagery of 31 and 44 referring to something short-term, and that of 53 and 54 referred to something long-term. (Influences generally are short-term, right? They arise, so what do you do with them? Act on them or not? I think 31 says 'act on it' and 44 says 'don't act on it'.)

Another point: I've never paid much attention to nuclear hexagrams, cuz it's always seemed like the sort of thing that nerdy Ichinguerros like me get drawn into out of being too involved with the search for meaning in the Yi. How much stock do you put in nuclear hexagrams? How much stock do you think the originators of the Yi put in them?
 

fkegan

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different perspectives different structural bases

Hi Hillary,
I don't see LiSe's Sabian Symbol correspondence on her site you linked for us now, though I do remember an email exchange with her some years ago. There is no connection whatsoever between her correspondence and mine as hers was a purely personal and poetic association based on trigrams connections that struck her as convenient to connect or something. Her intent was illustrative, how two sets of poetic imagery could become a third set of imagery to enjoy.

Mine is an expression of the universal geometrical structure underlying various systems based in the observation and symbolic expression of the natural cycles like the water cycle. The major connecting factor for me are the Pythagorean Eidos, or dice face patterns. It makes for a different perspective as it has nothing to do with Chinese language translation or images/artifacts found in tombs. Rather it relates to the universal system of relating to life within the natural world. Native American models connect to Pythagorean metaphysics and to Summerian astrology and Chinese Yi Jing solely by the fact that the same sun travels from Eastern to Western horizon, from Summer Soltice through equinox to Winter Solstice. Like the Admiralty law, each people has their own unique and local rules yet it works globally since the principles and human realities transcend those details and rest upon the fundamental realities of being puny humans on a large Planet, trying to maintain trade upon the High Seas.
The important detail is the totally different perspective which takes a lot of time (and openness to new ways to look at things) to make any real sense. Finally, I am at a place where I am ready to launch a venture to try to explain and such.

As for hex 44, rather than the small differences you note between the judgment that the woman (Lady Luck) is a temptress or just a force of nature that can not be tamed, consider Gia-Fu's Taoist translation:

CHANCE ENCOUNTER. THE GIRL IS TOUGH. DO NOT TAKE HER HOME. Chance encounter means to meet. The gentle meets the strong. Do not take the woman [home] because it won't last long. Heaven and Earth meet, all things prosper. The tough gets the correct center all under heaven prevails. Great indeed is the timing and rectitude of chance encounter.
Here question is more properly put in terms of the gap between the special qualities of the woman and the routine expectations of a proper wife. The opportunity is excellent, but not for traditional forms done in the old ways.

Mick,
Thank you for your appreciation.

In terms of details, it is vital to remember that I Ching and astrology are natural number systems based in geometry. Therefore, zero which is not a natural number does not exist. Euclid defines number as a number of units, so the first number is 2. The unit sets the tone of everything, it is the monad. Each degree of the zodiac goes from say, 1 degree Aries 1 minute to 1 degree Aries 60 minutes which in our modern algebra would be 2 degrees Aries 0 minutes. In a natural system, the only zeros are 10's or 30's or 60's depending upon the base in play. Before 1 Aries comes 30 Pisces which sign continues until what our algebraic horoscope software would calculate as 0 Aries 60 minutes. 30 degrees in a sign is either numbered 0-29 or 1-30. It doesn't work very well to mix both and have 0 Aries going to 30 Aries--if you count it out you have 31 degrees that way.
Dobno,
Nuclear hexagrams are important in everything done with the Yi. They arise from the middle 4 lines of each hexagram. The 3rd & 4th lines, the heart line places, can only be composed from 4 hexagrams, 1,2,63 or 64. The nuclear adds also the will line places, 2 and 5, and makes possible 16 hexagrams, four each times the 4 corner patterns. The nuclear hexagram can be used as a means to delve more deeply into the subjective roots of a hexagram and thus an oracle. The first hexagram in an oracle describes the situation as it is now. The nuclear hexagram describes where that all arose from. Which of the 4 corner hexagrams is involved shows the fundamental energy that was reacted to by the will to make that source reality that grew into the current situation.

The nuclear hexagram is not just a technical detail calculated by those into hexagram technicalities. It is the way the hexagram (and thus the oracle involving that hexagram) has grown out of prior conditions to become what it is currently. An even fuller exploration is possible by seeing the oracle hexagram as the nuclear hexagram being confronted by an environment which has the configuration of the outer line places of the oracle hexagram (lines 1and 6). As the resultant hexagram gives a glimpse of the possible future of the oracle situation; the nuclear hexagram describes far more fully the past history from which the oracle hexagram developed.
 

dobro p

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The first hexagram in an oracle describes the situation as it is now. The nuclear hexagram describes where that all arose from.

If that's the case, then 1 and 2 arise out of themselves.

If that's the case, then 11 *always* arises out of 19.

But I've got a problem with that. My understanding is that 1 or 2 or 11 can arise out of *any* hexagram. For instance, if I draw 34.4>11, one way to read that is that 11 arose out of 34. One way to resolve this is to say that THE HEXAGRAM ITSELF, IRRESPECTIVE OF THE SITUATION IT REFERS TO, arises out of its nuclear hexagram. Is that what you mean?
 

fkegan

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Distinguishing x-plane and z-plane in the Yi

Hi Dobro,

Hexagram 11 has a Yin line over a yang line in the heart line places, this is corner hexagram of hex 63. It also has the same line pair in the will line places resulting in a nuclear hexagram of 54 (cf. Wilhelm Part III nuclear trigrams chen over tui). This is the structural origin of the hexagram and it never changes--that is what makes it the nuclear hexagram. The situation in the world which developed such that when you asked your question this hexagram appeared in your oracle may be totally different and unconnected to any other that also returned hex 11 for your oracle hexagram. However, that situation has for its inner development nuclear hexagram 54.

Perhaps it is easier to think of it in terms of the Cartesian axes of high school analytic geometry. This is a 2-dimensional world where you focus upon the sheet of paper before you finding an image in the x-plane and the y-plane. However, you are there too, a living human in the 3-D realm of concrete objects (or 4-D or 6-dimensional of your metaphysics) composed of actual objects like the paper, your desk and your Self. This is the z-plane perpendicular to your paper. If we see the oracle as a set of patterns on paper, an x-y axis thing with the oracle hexagram, moving lines, and resultant hexagram progressing from one to the next on the page; the nuclear hexagram is inside that page in the z-plane.

You are there in the negative z-plane being the person working with these 2-D symbol patterns. The hexagram arises from the positive z-plane, through the Lookingglass as it were in Alice metaphor. It is the subjective, inner process which gave rise to your oracle hexagram. If it is not in your objective situation, than it is in YOU, but wherever hexagram 11 or any other hexagram is the objective oracle answer, its nuclear hexagram 54 is its inner, subjective Source.
As for hexagrams one and two, they are their own pure essence arising from themselves. Sunshine arises from the Sun shining and Mother Earth arises from the depths of the Planet Earth meeting the energy patterns of sunshine and moving itself about. The interpretation of hexagram 1 as a nuclear or one move step inward as a corner hexagram is not the same as hexagram one as an oracle hexagram or as the set of possible moving lines, however, it is always sunshine, the pure creative energy beaming into our world and animating all manner of changes.
 
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