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Another Dream: Any Jungians here? Hex 54.4

laylab

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Last night I had another powerful dream about X. I dreamed I was in a well-lit house (no water around this time) with large windows that also served as an office. I lived there with my son and the owner was my uncle. X worked there, for the company.

In the dream: I hadn't seen X for a while but I sensed his presense. My son was doing his homework and I was putting away laundry. I looked out the window and saw some Japanese businessmen visiting the owner of the company in the yard. I looked for X in the group thinking he may be showing them around the grounds but didn't see him.

I said to my son, "you are going to have to do your homework in the other room honey". He got up to leave and I turned around and in walked X.

He looked TERRIBLE. He was sweaty and pale, he had very dark circles under his eyes and a blue bruise on his face.

I said, "oh, what's wrong with you!!!??" And I felt full of concern. He said, "I can't eat anymore. My mother had this too once. It's a disease..eventually I won't be able to eat at all, or hold any food down, I just came from the bathroom where I was getting sick".

I ran to him, wrapped my arms around him and started to cry. I was kissing his sweaty cheek and saying, "I love you, you can't be sick. I will take care of you and you will get better!!!"

He just hugged me back and chuckled at my resolve..as if he was resigned that he was meant to be ill. But I was determined that there would be a cure.

Then the doctor came in and I said, "There has to be a cure! You western doctors know nothing!" I cried to X and said," we will find an eastern healer"

I asked the I ching what it meant and got:

Hex 54.2.4 The Marrying Maiden leanding to 24 The Return

The Marrying Maiden

One eyed man who is able to see
Preserverence of the solitary man furthers

The marrying maiden draws out the alloted time,
a late marriage comes in due course.

Do you have any interpretation of the dream?

I have been reading Man and His Symbols from Carl G. Jung and notice a few possibilities. This is the third dream I have had about X in which he was

1. In the first dream full of longing
2. In the second dream, not feeling well and told me he was having anxiety
3. Then this dream in which he really is ill.

I considered whether his is a projection of my Animus. But I don't think so. He is definately not my shadow self, as that is a female (according to all Jungian theory).

So??? Any ideas?
 

laylab

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According to Jung dream analysis, the following things act as symbols for something:

The well-lit house with large windows
The fact that my son was there and I was doing domestic task
The Japanese (asian) businessmen outside
The fact that the house doubled as a place of business
X's bruise on his cheek
X's sweaty, ill appearance and illness in general
The appearance of a doctor of whom I thought to be "too western" in orientation
 

laylab

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By the way..Carl Jung and other Jungian Psychologist, use the I Ching in dream interpretation. In the book, Man and HIs Symbols, Jung discusses working with patients and having them use the I Ching. It's fascinating.

I am going to bring the book here to the café with me and recite on of the stories..it's quite amazing.
 
U

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Wow.. well it seems your the marrying maiden... This symbol seems to really work here

line 2: your the underdog, the one who is unrecived and not recognied. not in control, but you persevere in this position.

I've been looking at the Animus/Anima concept myself:

If your a female you have an animus which is masculine.
If your a male you have a anima which is femimine.
 
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laylab

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Hi :)

Yes, that's correct. There are two possibilities that I see here:

1. He (in the dream) represents my Animus and is a projection of my Animus psyche representing it's (my animus's) feelings.

or

2. He actually represents himself and the dream tells me something about him.

Incidently, I have pulled Hex 54.4 a total of SIX times in the past week. So, in general the IC is trying to tell me something about my life in general. I see it as a positive reminder that things balance and work out eventually..

This song reminds me of the situation, the feeling of the dream and situation as a whole: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LgrGHWSy6k

I have also been doing some past life...errr...well...meditating etc. I asked the IC if he and I knew each other in a past life and it said:

Hexagram 14 unchanging

When I asked, how did we know each other? What were we to each other?
it answered:
Hex 54.3

The marrying maiden as a slave.
She marries as a concubine.

But ..hmmm..who was the woman and who was the man then? Interesting to remember that being reincarnated is about learning things from new and different perspectives. I have no idea and am not sure what I believe because I know that I won't know until I die again.
 
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Trojina

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People try to put alot of positive spin on 54 IMO or worse think its about getting married - its about compromise i think. Line 2 shows in your heart you continue to be faithful to this man - to the extent it is almost a sickness - thats how i see his sickness in the dream - its your sickness and he bears it/carries it for you at the moment. Line 4 might indicate sooner or later the thing/ the sickness works itself out one way or another. I don't think 54.2 and certainly not 54.3 are great places to be in any relationship. In 54.2 you're being faithful - on your own - and in 54.3 you are you are in a pretty lowly role in the relationship, second best and not in control of what happens - things are on someone elses terms . I think that sums up 54, things are not on your terms but may be remedied in time. 54.4 says I think not compromising will bring reward ultimately.

I just think you're still hooked on this guy and your subconcious is still working on it - stuff like that doesn't go away over night - takes time.
 
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U

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Well if it's your animus. Then why is he so beat up and ready to die?

Perhaps the Yi is saying Your animus is immature, but loyal to you 54.2. And will gain maturity in time 54.4.

Or perhaps it's about you missing the guy and wanting to take care of him. But he is resolved in not being cared for dispite your loyalty 54.2.

And then 54.4 speaks of somthing being late but comming nontheless, some kind of circumstances change.

I really wish someone would go back in time and change the name of his hexagram
The Marrying Maiden seems really obscure, and really has a deceptive name.
Karcher calls it Marrying the Maiden, which I think is an even worse name than the first.

There has got to be a better way of describing this.
Perhaps, the "Customs of Culture".
Or "The Demands of The Society".
Or just "Your The Newbie"

Most people think of a Marriage as somthing happy not unhappy. And the Maiden is usually the one in TOTAL control; Not one who is dark and just going with the flow - at least in this country (USA).
 

laylab

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Thanks guys,

I just came back to the internet cafe after sitting in a restaurant eating, wondering, "should I tell them on the forum how I really feel? or should I continue to play it "cool" (as if you guys fall for that anyway ;))

I am so madly in love with this man that it is aching me, pounding in my throat and swelling up like a wave that never recedes.

It's fueling me and hurting me at the same time because I have not been able to accept the circumstances so I pushed him away. But I fell in love with him the moment I laid eyes on him. And I saw a mutual recognition, UNMISTAKABLE in his eyes.

I am 34 years old, and I'm a thinker and a feeler. I have had long term relationships, given birth, raised a son alone...but I have not had this kind of consumming passion for someone in many, many years.

When I dream of him, I do not dream of being his wife, and yet...I dream of having a son with him. It may sound unusual to many people of more conventional ideals about partnership. But I just love him, I don't want to contractually own him, but I want his heart and his child.

Maybe I shouldn't be spilling my innermost feelings. My sister reads this forum and will say, "What?!!"

I live in Paris (please don't quote this because I am going to remove this part later for privacy reasons). I walk around the city, ride my bike and sit in front of the Notre Dame Cathedral and all the time, my thoughts are with him.

What happened to me? I saw him and that was that.

I have tried new people. I had sex with a casual aquantaince (the "new" relationship I mentioned)..honestly,...it was HORRIBLE. Dreadful

Then I kissed that other man and fretted over it. Why? because I was hoping he could numb the feelings I have for X.

This ache is so terrible and so sweet. When did I become a poet? A romantic? I have always been pragmatic about love. Now I found my soul mate ..and I think, "surely we will never be together?". But wait:::we already ARE! So what "togetherness" suffices?

He wrote me a less than two weeks ago, apologizing for breaking my "no contact" rule and said "hello, etc". I wrote back, friendly but cooly..
Then a couple of days later, I wrote back from my heart, without a show and said, "I miss you, it's a strangeness I wasn't expecting. I don't understand it"

He responded with: "I know. I miss you too. I think about the times we had together and I miss them. I wish things would be easier!"

Well, of course! Don't we all!!?

Yesterday I finally gave in an sent him a text message saying, "let's get together for tea in a couple of weeks". I asked the I ching how he would respond to that and it gave, "Hex 54.4 leading to 19 Approach".

He wrote back, "that would be nice" and that he still has my earrings on his desk at work.

I love him. Yes, I am in love. It's like some kind of affliction of the Goddesses..that causes storms and sends bolts of 51 lightening down.
 

Tohpol

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I love him. Yes, I am in love. It's like some kind of affliction of the Goddesses..that causes storms and sends bolts of 51 lightening down.


Is this the same guy that has a wife and twins and which you referred to a coupla months ago:

"I also found out that over the past 3 years he has been with at least 6 other women either for one night stands or flings while in his long term relationship.

ladies, if you ever come across a taken man, whether married or otherwise...run, don't walk away. No matter how over powering the attraction feels, if he hasn't the courage to leave his relationship before starting another one, he's a coward. And the same goes for women too."


What's changed?

Topal
 

laylab

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Topal the only thing that changed is that I decided to stop being "tough", "cool" or trying to say the "right", "wise" things.

I always felt the way I feel now. I just felt scared and my pragmatic side wouldn't allow things to surface. Because I have kept it pushed under and have thought it but never voiced it..it has found other ways of surfacing..via my subconscious. In dreams and days of thoughts going back to him no matter how hard I tried to focus them elsewhere.

I thought I was being honest. I can't explain my heart much better because I don't entirely understand it myself. It just is.

I just have to get it off my chest.
 

martin

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Interesting dream, Laylab. I will give it a shot but don't take my words for bible. Without knowing your personal associations with some of the symbols I might be way off.

I dreamed I was in a well-lit house (no water around this time) with large windows that also served as an office. I lived there with my son and the owner was my uncle. X worked there, for the company.

You are the house and we are in the part of yourself that is awake, conscious (well-lit). Your consciousness is open (large windows) and there are several references to integration of your life in the outer world and your private life: privacy and work merge (house = office), your boss is also your uncle. And X, the man whom you are in love with (a private affair) works there (refers to your life in the world).

There might be a hint here that you tend to confuse the two or that you keep your private sphere and your life outside (work, etc) insufficiently separated. I don't know.

I hadn't seen X for a while but I sensed his presense. My son was doing his homework and I was putting away laundry. I looked out the window and saw some Japanese businessmen visiting the owner of the company in the yard. I looked for X in the group thinking he may be showing them around the grounds but didn't see him.

But there is something that is more or less alien or foreign to your consciousness, not integrated in it. And X is linked with that.
Japanese: foreign.
Outside the house: not an integrated part of you or your consciousness.

The dream represents your son and X as opposites, your son close to you, part of you, X outside, not part of you.
Or is X not outside? Where is he? Is he foreign (linked with the japanese) or not? What is his place in your life?

I said to my son, "you are going to have to do your homework in the other room honey". He got up to leave and I turned around and in walked X.

You son has to leave before X can come in.
This looks like you have to push your son out of your consciousness (other room) to allow your consciousness the experience of X as part of you, part of your private sphere.

He looked TERRIBLE. He was sweaty and pale, he had very dark circles under his eyes and a blue bruise on his face.
I said, "oh, what's wrong with you!!!??" And I felt full of concern. He said, "I can't eat anymore. My mother had this too once. It's a disease..eventually I won't be able to eat at all, or hold any food down, I just came from the bathroom where I was getting sick".

Eating, (breast)feeding, mother? You are a mother but your son had to leave.

I ran to him, wrapped my arms around him and started to cry. I was kissing his sweaty cheek and saying, "I love you, you can't be sick. I will take care of you and you will get better!!!"

You see what is happening? You are becoming more like a mother to him, he is becoming more like your son. But your son had to leave.
What is going on here?
One possibility is that your are trying to be a mother to him because you can't be his lover. As a mother you are still intimate with him although it's not what you really want. It's a different kind of love but it is love.
If he was ill this would give you the chance to mother him, so this illness he seems to have is perhaps a wish. Not that you really wish that he was ill. You only want that chance.

He just hugged me back and chuckled at my resolve..as if he was resigned that he was meant to be ill. But I was determined that there would be a cure.
Then the doctor came in and I said, "There has to be a cure! You western doctors know nothing!" I cried to X and said," we will find an eastern healer"

I think he makes it clear by his chuckling that he doesn't want the son role. This may represent your protest against the mother role (because you really want something else) and your hope that something else is possible.
The same protest is represented in the second part. No, let somebody else be his mother, not me! (eastern healer, again foreign like the japanse, not you, not part of you).


As you can see, I didn't really go Jungian, I didn't interpret your son and X as different aspects or 'faces' of your animus, for example, mainly because it seems that a more 'superficial' interpretation fits better.
I may be wrong, though, the ice is thin because I don't know your associations, as I said before.

Does this make sense to you?
 

laylab

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Does it make sense to me? Oh, yes..in so many ways. Martin, the points you brought up fell into place so well that I realize that the dream was not about X at all. At least, he is not the message of the dream, the dream is about my life in general.

Let me tell you the circumstances of my life and you will see your interpretation was very insightful.

I was with a man for 2 1/2 in another European country (that I lived in for many years) who abused me. The abuse started emotionally, then became verbal and then after 18 months became physical.

As soon as that happened, I left him. We lived together and my son was with us. But in order to really leave him, I had to leave the country because his hold over me was so strong that I knew deep down I had to put alot of space between us. And even so, we still went back and forth for 10 months after I came to France. He even showed up one morning unannounced on my doorstep, taking the train all night from another European country to try to win me back.

In order to leave him and come to France I had to send my son to America. He is currently living with my uncle..the uncle in the dream (although he wasn't pictured it was his house and business)

Coming to France was a profound step for me. I have NO doubt that my Higher Self was pushing me and I suspect that my deceased mother was helping as well.

The day I flew to Paris I developed Tinitus in my ears. Strangly.

Anyway, from that point on events in my life started to synchronize so obviously that even skeptical friends of mine became "believers" in "the unexplained".

Slowly, things lined up pulling me closer and closer to Taoism and Buddhism, to spirituality and the desire to know the Divine.

I was raised a Christian, became and Agnostic and then an Atheist. But sometimes I would lay in bed at night and feel a sense of profound lonliness. Even with my partner beside me, my son sound asleep in his room, a job and a nice home and friends.something was empty and was calling out to the Spirit world for guidance. And the guidance came.

I became happy here in Paris and by this past March I was feeling happy and much more fulfilled. Then I met X and recognised him, his eyes and something deeper immediately.
Funny thing too that he actually went to school in my home town, even though he is not American! He was there the last year I lived there and the year I came to Europe, he came back to Europe (his home) as well.

Anyway...

My son is thriving, we talke 3 or four times a week, read books together (over the phone) write emails and letters. He is currently also reading the Tao de Ching and The Power of Now...like me, he has been interested in spiritual things since he was little. When he was six years old he came to me requesting to learn Hebrew ...out of the blue!!just like that!! We have NO Jewish lineage so it was interesting.

Anyway..now I am totally and finally free from the man who abused me but I am also in love with another man. Today is better than yesterday..yesterday I was lamenting wasn't I?

Oh you mentioned work and personal life..well you are right on there. As an expatriate with no family here, my closest bonds are developed often from co-workers who are also expats. Not many of us, just a small circle but we very close ..even though we no longer work together.

Now I want to start my own business..so my professional life and aspirations are always tied to my personal life as well. In a very fulfilling way I might add.

Thanks for what you wrote. Now I understand more and more that the dream was about my own life..

I left an abusive man..even though I was weak and lame I was able to "walk"
54.2

I am a capable and strong woman, evolving...things will work out

54.4

The marrying maiden and well, here I am..a single mother since I was 20 always independant but also dealing with the norms of constraints that society puts on women. Paying us less, discriminating against us in male dominated industries, etc etc. etc..
but in the end, I have not only survived but thrived.

The dream was reminding me that the "cure" I sought was from the East. And this is sooooo true. Remember my exclaimation about the inadequecy of Western "doctors"?

I definately do not want to mother X, but now I see that the dream wasnt about him. It was about my spiritual healing and growth.

The fact that X could not keep food down, also indicates that some part of me has not yet "digested" something important to me (nourishing).

It's interesting to have others look at our dreams because so often they see things we can't.

Once I had a dream about a man being torn apart by wolves that were communicating with each other telepathically. I was standing behind a screen door observing and could hear their thoughts. They were saying that they WERE the man's thoughts, and they devoured him.

At that time I was dealing with my Ex and his abuse. Part of the abuse was that he always acted paranoid and had "thoughts" of things about me that were completely untrue, complete fabrications of his mind. His thoughts devoured him and were tearing me apart.

When I had the dream at first I didnt understand it, but my sister saw it strait away.

So thanks for your input!
 

martin

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Glad that the interpretation was helpful, even although parts of it were off, apparently.
Good luck with your new business! :)
 

anon

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You were very accurate!

Laylab please come back and tell us what happened with this. It would really help a lot of us who are out there that are stuck in similar situations that get this same reading.

Highly appreciate it.
All the best wishes
 

deusa

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Yes, laylab, how did it go?
I had the same sensation you had with this X man, and it turned out it was not such a good thing...
It was a dream, a man trying to be what he thought I expected him to be instead of himself. And himself is not so good...
How did it go for you?
 

Trojina

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if you click on her name you can see she was last here in 2010. She may turn up but there might not be much point appealing to someone who last logged on 3 years ago. Although she might read it without logging on I guess
 

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