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Any Advice on Readings Much Appreciated
- Thread starter simon_uk
- Start date
L
lightofreason
Guest
simon_uk said:
your welcome. BUT a last thought - in the LOSS of love we focus on contractive bonding and the trigram of MOUNTAIN. The PROACTIVE side of the mountain octet consists of two hexagrams forming a pair - 31 and 33. The general theme of the pair is on enticement. In Love the particular focus is on 31 - wooing. Have fun 're-wooing' (but softly softly) ;-)
Chris.
Thanks Chris
I dont know how I am going to go about rewooing if I never see her and have no intention of contacting her.
I would love to contact her but I think it will push her away further. Besides I want her to come back to me because hse wants to not because I have influenced that decision.
Hope that makes sense?
Just hope that she will realise my value and just how good the relationship was.
Simon
I dont know how I am going to go about rewooing if I never see her and have no intention of contacting her.
I would love to contact her but I think it will push her away further. Besides I want her to come back to me because hse wants to not because I have influenced that decision.
Hope that makes sense?
Just hope that she will realise my value and just how good the relationship was.
Simon
L
lightofreason
Guest
simon_uk said:
your just showing the 'other end' of the mountain octet - in particular the pair of 15,52 with their overall focus on modesty, no highs, no lows, 'keeping still' (but with LOTS if internal dynamics! ;-))
The octet in order of low to high, reactive to proactive, energy:
15,52, 39,53, 62,56, 31,33
That said, some of your prose suggests the presence of anger, of stubbornness in refusal to move from the position - the double bind is (a) the refusal means you hold a position and so she knows where to find you but (b) you hold your position to protect yourself, your opinions etc - conservation of energy.
Since all of the hexagrams of the IC reflect basic instincts in us so consideration of them gives us insights into our being both as individuals (singulars) and members of the species (particulars).
Your friend is showing traits (based on your 51 assessment) of the type 5 enneagram or INTP MBTI category. Google them.
From the neurosis position, where the type is mapped to avarice we have:
"If the gesture of anger is to run over, that of avarice is one of holding back and holding in. While anger expresses greed in an assertive .. way, greed in averice manifests only through retentivenss. This is a fearful grasping, implying a fantasy that letting go would result in catestrophic depletion. Behind the hoarding impulse there is, we may say, an experience of impending impoverishment" p 66 Character and Neurosis
The lack of friends etc etc gets into all of this. Note in thunder (her type according to 51) we find in the expansive bonding position hex 17 - a need to follow someone/something. The loss of love position, mountain, is in hex 27 with its focus on filling-in an infrastructure and so a need for quality control in doing so - we are wary of what we take in; commitment is not easy. ;-) For YOU the commitement is in getting through your wall, the boundary that protects where once inside all is fine ;-) You appear to be willing for her to 'come in' but note the passive aspect of this, the holding of position as she MUST come to you - those being your terms.
It gets 'deep' but then we are talking about 'deep' things.
Chris.
Indeed it is deep Chris.
Perhaps I am not angry, more confused than anything, muddled.
I do value your advice but I must admit it confuses me more
I am not chasing her because from experience all that will do is push her away. I am protecting myself from more hurt. I am not refusing to contact her from pride, nor am I being stubborn, by suggesting it should be her contacting me. If I thought it would help my situation in anyway, then of course I would contact her.
I value her immensely and I respect her decision to be on her own for the time being. Like I say I would not impose my will for my own selfish reasons.
So in plain English, what would you suggest I do?
I have let go as best I know in that I havent pursued her or tried to encourage her to be with me. I still hold on to memories of what was and hope for what will be. Is this still holding on?
I dont hate her or hold any grudges toward her whatsoever. she has done/is doing what she feels best for her at the moment. I dont begrudge her that.
If I am angry about anything it is merely that I didnt see this coming and I was powerless to do anything about it. Or was I? Perhaps I could have talked to her more about her feelings instead of just letting her go?
Like I say, I am not being stubborn and refusing to contact her, I am just giving her the option to exercise her own free will.
Hope that made sense?
Simon
Perhaps I am not angry, more confused than anything, muddled.
I do value your advice but I must admit it confuses me more
I am not chasing her because from experience all that will do is push her away. I am protecting myself from more hurt. I am not refusing to contact her from pride, nor am I being stubborn, by suggesting it should be her contacting me. If I thought it would help my situation in anyway, then of course I would contact her.
I value her immensely and I respect her decision to be on her own for the time being. Like I say I would not impose my will for my own selfish reasons.
So in plain English, what would you suggest I do?
I have let go as best I know in that I havent pursued her or tried to encourage her to be with me. I still hold on to memories of what was and hope for what will be. Is this still holding on?
I dont hate her or hold any grudges toward her whatsoever. she has done/is doing what she feels best for her at the moment. I dont begrudge her that.
If I am angry about anything it is merely that I didnt see this coming and I was powerless to do anything about it. Or was I? Perhaps I could have talked to her more about her feelings instead of just letting her go?
Like I say, I am not being stubborn and refusing to contact her, I am just giving her the option to exercise her own free will.
Hope that made sense?
Simon
L
lightofreason
Guest
> Indeed it is deep Chris.
>
> Perhaps I am not angry, more confused than anything, muddled.
>
> I do value your advice but I must admit it confuses me more
>
> I am not chasing her because from experience all that will do is push
> her away.
So -- you are attracted to the same type of woman? History repeats? - or is your method in chasing at fault and so the 'push away' applies to all women?
With pull/push the feedback dynamic is of positive (push away) or negative (pull towards). In the latter the focus is on oscillating across a constant, getting closer and closer (the resonance element). The former is more all or nothing - it allows for the emergence of an autonomous system but is 'competitive' in it pushes away by avoiding or pushes away by pushing others out of the way.
All hexagrams reflect the different dynamics of the push/pull dichotomy.
> So in plain English, what would you suggest I do?
>
Ummmm.....Send her a flower. A single rose. No card. It just means 'I am still here' and is not 'overwhelming' ;-) - subtle wooing ;-) - reflects 56 - another mountain based hexagram covering loyalty at a distance.... and then there is 53 with its focus on maturing, gradual progress.
If your serious then do that once a week until you are notified 'go away' or else she turns up to talk. The emotional thread needs to be maintained 'in reality' in some way - otherwise it becomes all 'head' stuff - imagination at work.
That said I may be being very wrong ( I am too preoccupied to date these days so my skills have dropped off or are 'old fashioned' perhaps? ;-)) so get some of the females here to help ;-)
Chris.
>
> Perhaps I am not angry, more confused than anything, muddled.
>
> I do value your advice but I must admit it confuses me more
>
> I am not chasing her because from experience all that will do is push
> her away.
So -- you are attracted to the same type of woman? History repeats? - or is your method in chasing at fault and so the 'push away' applies to all women?
With pull/push the feedback dynamic is of positive (push away) or negative (pull towards). In the latter the focus is on oscillating across a constant, getting closer and closer (the resonance element). The former is more all or nothing - it allows for the emergence of an autonomous system but is 'competitive' in it pushes away by avoiding or pushes away by pushing others out of the way.
All hexagrams reflect the different dynamics of the push/pull dichotomy.
> So in plain English, what would you suggest I do?
>
Ummmm.....Send her a flower. A single rose. No card. It just means 'I am still here' and is not 'overwhelming' ;-) - subtle wooing ;-) - reflects 56 - another mountain based hexagram covering loyalty at a distance.... and then there is 53 with its focus on maturing, gradual progress.
If your serious then do that once a week until you are notified 'go away' or else she turns up to talk. The emotional thread needs to be maintained 'in reality' in some way - otherwise it becomes all 'head' stuff - imagination at work.
That said I may be being very wrong ( I am too preoccupied to date these days so my skills have dropped off or are 'old fashioned' perhaps? ;-)) so get some of the females here to help ;-)
Chris.
lightofreason said:
It is rather charming of you, Chris, to talk about wooing.
I personally find getting flowers rather romantic but that's obviously subjective. Also, I wonder if once a week is a bit overwhelming and bordering on stalking behaviour. If you want to remind her of your existence and showing some good intentions, flowers once or twice is sufficient. Or perhaps even an occasional "how are you" email.
Look, I know this can be difficult to take, some people are not good at verbally telling you to leave them alone. One thing you will have to accept is that silence is a way of saying "no".
Good luck.
Philippa
J
jesed
Guest
Dear Simon
Please re-read my previous post.
If this emotional IC aproach is not working for you, try the other aproach I suggested.
Best wishes
Please re-read my previous post.
If this emotional IC aproach is not working for you, try the other aproach I suggested.
Best wishes
J
jesed
Guest
Yes....
When you ask so many questions, it points to an unclear state of mind. An unclear state of mind needs to find quiet before ask again, in order to get clarity.
I know this implies some effort for you (not to ask), but this effort will allow you don't waste your emotional energy and clarity, but concentrate them. Once acumulated both energy and clarity, you can get better answers.
Best wishes
When you ask so many questions, it points to an unclear state of mind. An unclear state of mind needs to find quiet before ask again, in order to get clarity.
I know this implies some effort for you (not to ask), but this effort will allow you don't waste your emotional energy and clarity, but concentrate them. Once acumulated both energy and clarity, you can get better answers.
Best wishes
L
lightofreason
Guest
And more on mirror neurons :
'Spectrum of empathy' found in the brain
* 17:00 18 September 2006
* NewScientist.com news service
* Rowan Hooper
Ever wondered how some people can “put themselves into another person's shoes” and some people cannot? Our ability to empathise with others seems to depend on the action of "mirror neurons" in the brain, according to a new study.
Mirror neurons, known to exist in humans and in macaque monkeys, activate when an action is observed, and also when it is performed. Now new research reveals that there are mirror neurons in humans that fire when sounds are heard. In other words, if you hear the noise of someone eating an apple, some of the same neurons fire as when you eat the apple yourself.
So-called auditory mirror neurons were known only in macaques. To determine if they exist in humans Valeria Gazzola, at the school of behavioural and cognitive neurosciences neuroimaging centre at the University of Groningen, the Netherlands, and colleagues, put 16 volunteers into functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanners and observed their brains as they were played different noises.
The volunteers heard noises such as a sheet of paper being torn, or of someone crunching potato chips. Then the same subjects were scanned again, this time whilst tearing a piece of paper, or eating potato chips.
Vicarious crunching
“We combined the data from listening and execution and looked to see if the activity in the brain overlaps,” says Gazzola’s colleague Christian Keysers, also at the University of Groningen. Sure enough, it did overlap. Motor neurons associated with mouth actions (crunching) and hand actions (ripping) were activated in both cases.
The overlap occurred in areas of the brain such as the bilateral temporal gyrus and the superior temporal sulcus.
“The mirror system is a particular form of Pavlovian association,” says Keysers, referring to the classic behavioural experiments where dogs were trained to associate food with the noise of a bell. “Each time you crunch a potato chip you hear yourself crunching the chip, and now when you hear someone else crunching it activates your own action neurons.”
Spectrum of difference
The phenomenon has been exploited by advertisers for years – think of the Coca-cola commercials comprising of just the noise of a bottle of Coke being opened, the fizz of the drink and the sound of the drinking. And intriguingly, subjects in the study who scored higher in empathy tests also showed higher levels of mirror neuron activation.
Differences in empathy scores and mirror neuron activity have been observed between autistic and non-autistic people, says Keysers, but this is the first time a spectrum of difference has been found in non-autistic people. “How empathetic we are seems to be related to how strongly our mirror neuron system is activated,” he says.
“It’s exciting because we can start to look at the diversity of experiences of other people. Some people see others through themselves, and some are more objective about it.”
Journal reference: Current Biology (vol 16, p 1824)
Source: NewScientist
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10108?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=dn10108
'Spectrum of empathy' found in the brain
* 17:00 18 September 2006
* NewScientist.com news service
* Rowan Hooper
Ever wondered how some people can “put themselves into another person's shoes” and some people cannot? Our ability to empathise with others seems to depend on the action of "mirror neurons" in the brain, according to a new study.
Mirror neurons, known to exist in humans and in macaque monkeys, activate when an action is observed, and also when it is performed. Now new research reveals that there are mirror neurons in humans that fire when sounds are heard. In other words, if you hear the noise of someone eating an apple, some of the same neurons fire as when you eat the apple yourself.
So-called auditory mirror neurons were known only in macaques. To determine if they exist in humans Valeria Gazzola, at the school of behavioural and cognitive neurosciences neuroimaging centre at the University of Groningen, the Netherlands, and colleagues, put 16 volunteers into functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) scanners and observed their brains as they were played different noises.
The volunteers heard noises such as a sheet of paper being torn, or of someone crunching potato chips. Then the same subjects were scanned again, this time whilst tearing a piece of paper, or eating potato chips.
Vicarious crunching
“We combined the data from listening and execution and looked to see if the activity in the brain overlaps,” says Gazzola’s colleague Christian Keysers, also at the University of Groningen. Sure enough, it did overlap. Motor neurons associated with mouth actions (crunching) and hand actions (ripping) were activated in both cases.
The overlap occurred in areas of the brain such as the bilateral temporal gyrus and the superior temporal sulcus.
“The mirror system is a particular form of Pavlovian association,” says Keysers, referring to the classic behavioural experiments where dogs were trained to associate food with the noise of a bell. “Each time you crunch a potato chip you hear yourself crunching the chip, and now when you hear someone else crunching it activates your own action neurons.”
Spectrum of difference
The phenomenon has been exploited by advertisers for years – think of the Coca-cola commercials comprising of just the noise of a bottle of Coke being opened, the fizz of the drink and the sound of the drinking. And intriguingly, subjects in the study who scored higher in empathy tests also showed higher levels of mirror neuron activation.
Differences in empathy scores and mirror neuron activity have been observed between autistic and non-autistic people, says Keysers, but this is the first time a spectrum of difference has been found in non-autistic people. “How empathetic we are seems to be related to how strongly our mirror neuron system is activated,” he says.
“It’s exciting because we can start to look at the diversity of experiences of other people. Some people see others through themselves, and some are more objective about it.”
Journal reference: Current Biology (vol 16, p 1824)
Source: NewScientist
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10108?DCMP=NLC-nletter&nsref=dn10108
confucius
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The art of Yi is asking questions, there are as many answers as there are situations, backgrounds, and objectives...Most wise men that we look up to and quote for inspiration have said this one way or the other: ''the question is more important than the answer'',since, anyway, the answer is an interpretation, and seldom comes from the person asking the question...although that is precisely who holds the answer...the questions are many...but to him who sets sails without a destination, the wind is never favourable...what is the question, Simon?
...as for reading, according to the ''level'' you seem to have reached, I would like to suggest R.L.Wing's Yi king workbook, an introductory guide to asking yourself questions to expose answers that are within yourself...based on the bottomless well of wisdom issued from the Yi.
...take good care,
Confucius
...as for reading, according to the ''level'' you seem to have reached, I would like to suggest R.L.Wing's Yi king workbook, an introductory guide to asking yourself questions to expose answers that are within yourself...based on the bottomless well of wisdom issued from the Yi.
...take good care,
Confucius
Simon-
I want to second or third Jesed's recommendation.
This seems like the Yijing counterpart to Attention Deficit Disorder.
You seem to be scattering yourself all over the place with so many questions,
and leaving yourself with nothing left for exploring anything in depth.
In the Yi's own words
It is not I who seeks the young and inexperienced
The young and inexperienced seek me
The first consultation informs
The second and third show disrespect
Disrespect deserves no information
It is worthwhile to be dedicated
I suggest that you force yourself to limit your questions to no more
than one a day, but acquire a couple of good (yet varied) translations
and look the response up in all of them. Your present approach is
way too shallow to get any understanding at all.
I want to second or third Jesed's recommendation.
This seems like the Yijing counterpart to Attention Deficit Disorder.
You seem to be scattering yourself all over the place with so many questions,
and leaving yourself with nothing left for exploring anything in depth.
In the Yi's own words
It is not I who seeks the young and inexperienced
The young and inexperienced seek me
The first consultation informs
The second and third show disrespect
Disrespect deserves no information
It is worthwhile to be dedicated
I suggest that you force yourself to limit your questions to no more
than one a day, but acquire a couple of good (yet varied) translations
and look the response up in all of them. Your present approach is
way too shallow to get any understanding at all.