Are you free at the weekend?

[hilary]

I'd love to ask that. It's something I've been thinking about a lot lately, what with the project with Eliana and related survey. I need to find common elements - beyond individual preference for ritual or not - to everyone's experience of 'opening'. So this is ultra-relevant for me.

 

[hilary]

A couple of suggestions via my Facebook profile:
"Dear Honorble Spirits of the Yi,

Please advise us as to what our goal should be this year in order to obtain a greater understanding of the oracle the I Ching...."
(Osunyoyin Alake)

"Could ask 'whats the best question a group of us could ask?' "
(Jon Wilson)

 

[rodaki]

lol!

love this last one!!

 

[triple3]

Sunday gathering

Hey everyone,

Sorry I won't be able to join in this gathering, 6pm UK time is 2am Singapore time, and I'll definately be having a date with the ZzZ monster.

Anyway, I hope everyone has a great time exploring divinations and sharing tips, tricks and ideas, I hope that a recording can be made and archive somewhere in the forum so that those who can't make it can check it out.

Cheers!

David

 

[arableparable]

okeedokeee

how about we each ask that question regarding inner hopes that won't go away and involves something almost impossible to achieve?. You refered to these questiones as "off the ground", needing to coome down to earth one way or another.each will have their individual secret question that won't go away.You could break them down to common denominators so that all the information is pertinent. like..........questiones to do with a)romance/all human relationships b)vocation/important plans involving doing any activity.I reckon along these lines so that you could explicate going about answering these seemingly unrealistic desires or plans.I downloaded skype easily and discovered to my delight that with a small adaptor for an external mike to plug its phone 1/4 inch (i think)in to a 1/8 plug for the desktop,works with my headphones.I think my contact name is karmayeshe or the full version, karmayeshedorje.my phone # for home/work is a cell #

 

[hilary]

Just remembered to close the poll, since Sunday won. Now...

Yes, there should be a recording, unless I have technical problems with the recording program. Which has been known to happen. If anyone else attending has the means of recording, please go right ahead.

Ralph... got your Skype contact details by the way, thanks... do you mean asking something like 'How to achieve the impossible?' I imagine that would be more of an individual thing - that the answer for one person would be 'you don't' and for another would be 'like this...'.

If you need to test your mic, btw, you can do so by calling echo123 in Skype. Very useful.

 

[hilary]

I think we should decide on a question tomorrow, to allow time for someone to cast the reading and us to mull over the response a bit.

I'm equally interested in

'How best to approach Yi' - basic principles to work by as we form an intention for a reading, put the question into words, and cast

and

Something fitting for the turning of the year - like 'how to bring about real change'. That's something we could apply personally to 'New Year resolutions' and individual habits, or as broadly and globally as we like. I have a feeling there's a single principle that would apply on all levels and scales of change, and Yi seems a good entity to ask...

 

[bamboo]

I like that question about real change....i would love to discuss something like that which we could all take away with us into the new year and then maybe even report back about changes or progress.....sort of like a mastermindgroup support....we could be spiritually and psychically supporting each other in the months to come, connected by the shared reading..... i could sure use it this year!
I hate to be the incessant nudge about details I could probably look up if i wasnt so lazy...but what time does 6pm UK mean for eastern usa....???:bows:

 

[hilary]

Bamboo, you really need to subscribe to Friends' notes! - or Change Circle updates, or both. That's where the details are!

Here's a copy of the email. The main thing is I need your Skype ID or phone # asap, as there's a maximum of 24 places and I've had about 21 replies already.

To celebrate the holidays, we're having an online gathering
this Sunday for *all* Clarity members.

If you'd like to come, there are two things you really need to
do now, and one you might like to do as well...

Thing one: email me back with your Skype ID or your phone
number, so I can call you on Sunday and add you to the
conference. (Note: the person hosting a Skype conference - which
would be me - has to call everyone. It doesn't work for you to
call me, so please don't!)

The phone number would need to be a landline, unless you're in
the US, Canada, China or Singapore. I can call most countries -
the full list is here
http://www.skype.com/intl/en/allfeatures/subscriptions/europeworld/
If you want to join the call from a country that's not on that list,
you'll need to get a Skype account (which is free) and send me
your Skype ID.

The maximum number of people on a Skype conference is 24, so
what I'll do on the day is call the first 24 people who've sent
me their details. Hopefully that'll be enough room for everyone
who wants to join... I'll also (try to) record the call, in case
people can't get on.

Thing two: mark your calendar for Sunday 21st, 6pm UK time.
That's...
9am Alaska
10am Pacific
11am Mountain
12 noon Central
1pm Eastern
7pm in Amsterdam
8pm in Athens
...and you can find other timezones at
http://timezoneconverter.com/cgi-bin/tzc.tzc

And finally - what we'll be talking about. The idea is to cast
and explore a single reading for the group - on a subject of
shared interest, or asking for some advice we can all use - but
we haven't decided yet on a question. So that's thing three:
please visit the thread about this,
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7109
and share your suggestions.

As I was saying, I'd like to settle on a question today. Since Kevin's doing a lot of the 'leading' on this one, though, I'm waiting for his input.

 

[rodaki]

sorry I couldn't get back earlier . . all day at work
How to bring real change sounds wonderful! Actually I'll be happy to tag along with what ever you feel best

 

[georgia]

I'd like to weigh in on the real change idea, how to surf the currents of change in the coming year. However, it may be that a surprise family visit will keep me from participating in the call, unless I can talk my daughter into taking the dogs for a lo-o-o-ng walk in the woods on Sunday afternoon.

 

[kevin]

OK – I read the thread and pulled these questions out. I missed a couple off as we need a question that is a general principle which applies to everyone (Sorry). Even so some of these questions might bring very generalised answers. E.G. ‘How best to approach Yi?’ – Well there are so many ways and we are all different. Some people enjoy the mathematical beauty of Yi, others the clear moral guidance of the Confucian layers. Still others the numen of the connection and the spiritual growth and guidance that comes from that... and more and more...

One thing I am sure... Yi will most likely surprises us.

Please will those who are comming state a preference from the list below?

How to surf the currents of change in the coming year?
What approach the Yi advises (to using the Yi)?
What's 'New Year' for?
What do we need to know about creating real change?
What do we need to understand about creating harmonious relationships?
Please advise us as to what our goal should be this year in order to obtain a greater understanding of the oracle the I Ching....?
'How best to approach Yi' - basic principles to work by as we form an intention for a reading, put the question into words, and cast?
How to bring about real change?

 

[hilary]

One vote for 'what do we need to know about creating real change?'

Kevin - what would you prefer?

 

[kevin]

One vote for 'what do we need to know about creating real change?'

Kevin - what would you prefer?

I am with you - but would clarify the question a little... Real Change at the personal level? Personal/Spiritual? Relationships level? or World? etc...

Any views anyone?

 

[hilary]

My feeling was we could leave it at that and intend to encompass change at all levels. It seems to me the obstacles are broadly similar: the power of the groove, or the rut, and the inertia that keeps us moving along it.

Like I want to lose weight but my habits involve sitting at a computer all day. Or like the debate I heard on the radio last night about adding another runway at Heathrow: several people arguing that yes, this has to be done, it isn't possible for any government not to do so, because of the demand. And I'm pretty sure the same pattern exists at higher/deeper levels of thought patterns where few or none of us are even capable of seeing the world beyond the rut.

Of course all these preconceptions of mine get cheerfully thrown into the reading-vessel for proper cooking. But doesn't it seem likely to you that there is something that all levels and degrees of creating change have in common, and this is something Yi could talk about?

 

[rodaki]

ditto on Hilary's words, I think Real change has the same principles on all levels . .
. .and another one for the question on that to find out! perhaps Yi will disagree . .

rodaki

 

[hilary]

Hmm... on second thoughts (or whatever passes for thought at this time of year) - maybe Hilary's untestable metaphysical assumption about the single nature of all levels of change is not such a great basis for a shared question.

I've just been chatting with Kevin, who's still volunteering to lead some impromptu guided imagery through the reading, and we thought that
'What do we need to know about creating real personal change?'
might be a more reasonably-sized question. Each of us could apply the answer where it needed applying.

Any comments/objections/suggestions?

Once we're sure of the question, Kevin will do the casting and post the answer here some time early tomorrow.

 

[rodaki]

Any comments/objections/suggestions?

nope!

 

[kevin]

Maybe a few words on why I think that how to bring about 'real' change is not a singular process.

Clearly we can bring about change by many means, injury and illness, spiritual practice leading to growth, therapy healing old wounds and developmental issues in the persona as well as personal growth. Practical change of outer dimensions such as housing, finance, or other circumstances. Change by skill building. Change by political action and through changes in our own and others perceptions and through information sharing, discussion and education. We can bring about change in ourselves and others through compassion and love or by challenging or quietly listening. We can bring change by making demands or by simply waiting for change to come. We can bring about change through introducing feedback loops in organisations (governance) or by building new infrastructures to distribute and exchange goods, services and information.

OK – Non of this is new or surprising... this is what the Book of Changes is all about – Managing inner and outer world change.
Perhaps Hilary is not so metaphysically off beam as she generously offers. (and it would be a major first that I have seen if she is).

So real change is many things... but what is being affected for the change to be 'real'?

For me there is one very basic change that is important above almost all else:

At the personal level what is the most crucial change we need to pay attention to?

Why personal level? Well take a look at Ken Wilber’s website for one explanation. We could address issues of change in Culture (norms, law, values beliefs and art etc.), or technological determinants, but the thing I most bring to this world is myself and how I use that self to help or hinder myself and others on our long journey of survival and growth.

I am not suggesting this as the question as the question Hilary put will elicit this if appropriate... just thoughts...

 

[hilary]

Good thoughts.

I'll admit it often seems fairly easy to me to see what change to pay attention to and attempt to make; it's how to have all those oh-so-splendid insights translate into anything real. All too often I've dazzled myself with my own brilliance, only to find I wrote all the same things years earlier.

Hm. I seem to be getting into omen-fixing territory.

Anyway, I was just dropping by to mention that we have a maximum of 25 spaces, and 24 people signed up. Impressive! I'll keep collecting all the names that come in and adding them to my Skype account, though, just in case some of the first 25 can't make it.

 

[kevin]

For the Gathering today:

The question I put to Yi in the end was:
‘What do we need to know about making personal change real?’

Late last night I sat with the question 'What do we need to know about creating real personal change?’ for a long time and when deep within it did not notice that it had metamorphosed into ‘What do we need to know about making personal change real?’ Bother.

Whilst asking the question I had in my heart-mind the idea of how to make changes precipitate into a reality in both our inner and the outer world. After fixing the omen making it take enduring form.

However the answer seems so perfect that I stayed with it. Hope that will not get me lynched.

Yi’s response was simply – 58 (no changing lines)

Though I expect in our discussion it would be worth looking at all of the lines as potentials within the moment.

Looking forward to meeting folk at 1800 UTC

 

[hilary]

I could start a poll - should we lynch Kevin? Any takers?

About the unchanging hexagram... well, round about the 21st for the past 3 months, I've published a podcast. (Not this month - way too hectic - the recording of today's call will stand in its stead.)
'What do we need to know about holding a living connection to source and meaning?' 29, unchanging
'What do we need to understand about money?' 51, unchanging
'How can we nurture creativity?' 27, unchanging

So an unchanging hexagram here is not a great big surprise. Perhaps it's a natural response to a question for a group, each of whom has their own way of 'relating' and drawing out parts of the answer.

 

[hilary]

Excellent reading on 58:
http://i-tjingcentrum.nl/serendipity/archives/51-The-salient.html

 

[bamboo]

I have the skype acount open and i do not know how to access the conference ..will it ring or something? how does this work? anybody know?

 

[kevin]

Hilary brings us all on board - we just sit and wait for a message asking us to join

 

[bamboo]

thanks!

 

[hilary]

Thanks Kevin

It's all in the email I sent a few hours ago - but yes, that sums it up.

 

[hilary]

Thank you, everyone, for coming. And thanks too to people who tried to join in but found the technology wouldn't work for you. It seems to have been a mixed blessing - good clear connections for some (from Athens to Australia), completely unusable for others. Unfortunately Kevin was one of those - and he had a lot more to share, and it's very disappointing and frustrating to have missed that.


Oh, and my recording didn't work at all - it said it was recording, but nothing was saved. Sorry. Did anyone get a recording?

But despite all that, connecting with the people for whom the technology worked was great. Really enjoyed it. Come New Year we must definitely put our heads together and form a Yijing 'mastermind'-type group - or two, or three. The 'social groups' function available inside Change Circle will help with that.

(By the way - technology needn't get in the way. Small Skype groups work beautifully, in my experience. Then there's webinar technology (new, better, genuinely Mac-compatible) for groups of up to 15, and there are phone conference lines for bigger groups. It'll work.)

 

[kevin]

Well I have to see the humour in a Hx.58 gathering and such problematic sound.

I could hear some folk, but Hilary was breaking up badly for me.

The bits could hear were great.

I was going to try to explore other ways of looking at Hx.58, but the connection was impossible and eventually it cut.

I have talked to Hilary and I will do a brief recording which she will post and which I hope will be of interest. I would have liked better if we could have knocked those ideas around a bit together. Perhaps another time.

Meanwhile I wish folk a good holiday.

Warmly

Kevin

 

[maremaria]

- good clear connections for some (from Athens to Australia), completely unusable for others. .)

If you talk about me, I was in the "not-blessed-ones" list.

Could the people that take part, post here what was discussed in that meeting ?

Maria