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Asking I-ching about the 'other'.

TygerChild

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This is not I am sure an unusual question, but I will ask it here again anyway.

When you ask a question of I-Ching and it involves another, how can you be sure the response relates to the other and not to yourself?

I suppose the quick answer is 'you can't'? Certainly it is not always clear...

I have just asked a question about whether someone has 'betrayed' me, and the response was Hex 7.2.2.

This reading seems extremely positive and the person appears 'exemplary'. So it looks like I-Ching is saying 'no, this person did not betray you'.

If this IS about the 'other', then I am gob-smacked, and my perceptions must be terribly awry.

Or is this about me?

What to make of it?
 

moss elk

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Why would it be about you when you specifically asked about the other person?
I think the answer is saying they are honorable.
 

TygerChild

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'Did they betray me?' No? So what is explanation?

Why would it be about you when you specifically asked about the other person?
I think the answer is saying they are honorable.


I ask because some people say it is difficult to get an accurate reading when asking about someone else, but if this is the case I am very happy about this reading.

It greatly interests me however that outside events etc mirror our internal world and so the relationship does seem to be a strong one anyway. I followed this 'betrayal' question up with 'Okay, so what IS the explanation'? and got 61.1.3>57, and I am thinking the whole scenario that is distressing and confusing me so much could be so complex because of inner uncertainties of both parties that are richocheting both ways....and creating havoc externally? Maybe the mystery is simply to be understood in that way?
 

moss elk

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All sorts of questions can be asked and answered.

Now, what are the most useful kind to ask?
In my opinion, it is of variety of: "how may I be correct in this situation?"
Or "what is best for me to do here?"

The answers that come from these kinds of questions usually *click* right away
leaving me with a sense of certainty and determination.

I could ask all other sorts of questions to gain knowledge but,
Do those really help me in my life?
Some just lead to more questions..more and more...the head swims...

Focus on You, and Your actions.
If you are doing what is right, does it really matter what anyone else is doing?
 

TygerChild

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All sorts of questions can be asked and answered.

Now, what are the most useful kind to ask?
In my opinion, it is of variety of: "how may I be correct in this situation?"
Or "what is best for me to do here?"


The answers that come from these kinds of questions usually *click* right away
leaving me with a sense of certainty and determination.

I could ask all other sorts of questions to gain knowledge but,
Do those really help me in my life?
Some just lead to more questions..more and more...the head swims...

Focus on You, and Your actions.
If you are doing what is right, does it really matter what anyone else is doing?

Yes, thank you Moss Elk. Things seem to be brightening up here. I am realising much of what I was questioning was misdirected................and furthermore I need to draw in my focus.. I am thinking maybe I have been under a lot of illusion and maybe have got things quite, quite wrong. so much guess work, so much potential for error, and now, after all, it could be, just could be that there are other explanations. Certain Hexagrams received lately lead me to think this. Now all I need do is wait for everything to unravel. Finally!
 

anemos

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When you ask a question of I-Ching and it involves another, how can you be sure the response relates to the other and not to yourself?

I suppose the quick answer is 'you can't'? Certainly it is not always clear...


I have just asked a question about whether someone has 'betrayed' me, and the response was Hex 7.2.2.

Yes, you can't . I ask about other when I really need to understand their pov and such or when there is no way to communicate with them. Yi really responds to those question, but most of the times we just need external info to confirm that.

examples : Mother has disappear_ not very uncommon for her, lol- and doesn't pick up the phone. Was worried because earlier she had an accident Q where /how is she A; 23.6>2 had not idea what that meant only after she communicate with me and told she was cleaning ( 23) a land piece( 2) in a property we have.

Friend has disappear too. Was picking up something like they were in trouble I even had some visual popping out my head. Yi said 47 and later that was confirmed by them as been confined( 47) somewhere.

So, in my own experience Yi actually responds yet the problematic part is , as you said, how we interpret
those readings.Just leave the scenarios in mind without take any of it as conclusive is the most play-it-save way to deal.

I agree with your interpretation on 7.2 . Can't see any betrayal but as someone being in the right position. Interesting reading btw, There is the mother figure-prevailing in your readings -and the strong general. having said that, could also be about you; an advice to go to your center.

WW, if this reading is about your therapist, may I ask how open you have brought the issue to the health care team, the suffering you are going through from the cessation of the therapy with her ? Are you ( both you and the NHS team) work on that issue ? There are good professional and not that good professional in that field but exploring your perceptions and what are those forces influence them it might be helpful.
 

NemeanMagik

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Hi Anemos, (changed my username from 'wisewoman' to 'NemeanMagik'.)
Thank you for this.
Yes I have made my care team aware, but basically no real support but rather cock up after cock up...!
 
S

sooo

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This is not I am sure an unusual question, but I will ask it here again anyway.

When you ask a question of I-Ching and it involves another, how can you be sure the response relates to the other and not to yourself?

I suppose the quick answer is 'you can't'? Certainly it is not always clear...

I have just asked a question about whether someone has 'betrayed' me, and the response was Hex 7.2.2.

This reading seems extremely positive and the person appears 'exemplary'. So it looks like I-Ching is saying 'no, this person did not betray you'.

If this IS about the 'other', then I am gob-smacked, and my perceptions must be terribly awry.

Or is this about me?

What to make of it?

After nearly five decades with this oracle there are still times I can't discearn with abdolute certainty whether the Yi is directly answering my question or is speaking to me about what's behind my need to ask such a question. I generally tend toward self reflection anyway, and I realize sometimes to a fault. Like my answer of 52 for that missing plane, I can't honestly say I'm resolved in Yi's answer whether it speaks literally to my question or to me personally. The same happened this morning, regarding accidentally doubling up on a potent medication and receiving a dubious answer, followed by another doubting question, followed by another dubious answer, and a short while later, another question, trying to get to the root of it all, but receiving again an answer which can be interpreted either way.

Sometimes Yi's answers seem so completely crystal clear, and other times seem to only create more questions and doubt. During those confusing times, I find it best to go into retreat mode from it all, and just gather the patience and calmness of spirit necessary to wait it out. This is how life is supposed to be lived in the first place, rather than having continuous foresight, which is what I think we desire more often than is healthy for us. There's something to be said for walking in faith and confidence rather than in doubt and uncertainty. If our questions pull us away from that, I believe it's time to rethink our approach. This is true whether questioning about someone else or ourselves.
 

pocossin

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accidentally doubling up on a potent medication

This is not good. I avoid mistakes by a medication-taking ritual. Each pill container is labeled:

A: morning
B: night
AB: morning and night

My drugs are in the lid of a box. On one kitchen counter they are 'put away'. On the other counter, they are 'to be taken'. The physical movement from counter to counter helps me remember whether or not I have taken them. At night I move them from the 'put away' counter to the 'to be taken counter', take them, go to bed, and leave them there. In the morning I find them on the 'to be taken' counter, take them, and put them on the 'put away' counter. All this effort may sound absurd, but my short-term memory has been damaged by statin, and ten minutes after I take them, I do not remember whether or not I have taken them. A neighbor died last year from a medication-taking mistake, so take care and develop your own ritual. In practical terms this is far more important than meditation or prayer.
 

anemos

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Hi Anemos, (changed my username from 'wisewoman' to 'NemeanMagik'.)
Thank you for this.
Yes I have made my care team aware, but basically no real support but rather cock up after cock up...!

hi,

nice pic. I thought you were much older but you look very very young :)

Oh, they don't address the emotional part, like you don't work on that, or you mean the practical part ?
Sorry for asking but I don't get it. sounds like they selectively address your issues and that is strange and creates frictions that work opposite to any healing process.

without knowing details and why you are tied by their service, you might say again to them how you feel , talk about your emotions and not the management and such.

Wish you all the best for this meeting. You are so young! create opportunities to live a good life. If this reading is about you its a beauty !! Take care of your people, assume responsibility for them .

Best wishes for the coming meeting !
 

Trojina

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It was all explained here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?18335-Will-D-return-to-me

without knowing details and why you are tied by their service, you might say again to them how you feel , talk about your emotions and not the management and such.


because they are a free service, the National Health Service, and they are making a re evaluation of her treatment. If they have a case load of ...I don't know 20,000 people, then they assign staff according to level of need and what treatment is appropriate, effective and affordable for them. This would mean meetings between personal all of which is not in the control of the patient...how could it be ? If a person has a broken leg the broken bones drs decide what to do, they don't wait for the patient to tell them what to do...or go to the patient that is making the most noise. There are case loads of work to be got through.


Hence WW (or whatever new name is) is in a position of helplessness of a kind but that is not unusual or even avoidable IMO if you are waiting for help from the NHS.

Having said that there must be a contact helping her in terms of information about what is happening...maybe that is what is called an 'advocate' here, not sure. Well WW has mentioned 'care team'

The situation is due to the way a big system, the NHS, works.

However I am not sure this thread is about the psychotherapist ? maybe it is...not sure..lost track but if it was about personal betrayal by the system I'd say 'no of course not'. That would be like saying your computer betrayed you when it went real slow and kept crashing...ha. My point being the treatment or 'cock ups' etc will not be due to any personal reasons but the way the system works or doesn't work.
 
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anemos

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thanks for explaining , Trojan. I'm pretty confused and really don't get if its about the processes or not. I understand that kind of helplessness. The wording of the questions posed to Yi however seemed to me that its more than bureaucratic procedures hence my confusion.

Its more likely we are going to see big questions answered , like consciousness, if there is life after death but see a smooth running health system its unlikely ... :(
 

TygerChild

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BTW, name-change in process > ' NemeanMagik'.......

Yes, to clarify: this question is about the psychotherapist. And I have an advocate (who has now gone back to Spain), but is still communicating with me and them, and I also have (or potentially have) a mental health team including psychiatrist and cpn... It's all been very confusing and difficult to get to bottom of contradictory messages as described earlier on 'shared readings'.
The 7.2.2 reading seems to indicate there has been no betrayal by the psychotherapist which seems to indicate other sources of obstruction. There seem also to have been some bureaucratic cock ups --and I mean quite serious ones. But her role is in theory only--as at present I am 'discharged' from psychotherapy....but complicatedly was suppose to have been reviewed by now for further work but have been so far denied a review.
The confusion and upset is because I have felt 'blocked' by psychiatrist from that review. She has been in charge of my care and so the referral back was dependent on her. Meanwhile the therapist has kept fairly quiet and unavailable whilst at the same time whenever co-incidental contact has happened has repeatedly been open to possibly resuming work..
More recently, I asked about how I could enhance my chances of further work, and interestingly got again 7.2.2!!!

I hope Hilary's I ching mechanism hasn't got stuck!!
 
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NemeanMagik

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I should add that I have always sensed that my psychiatrist has been negative about my having further therapy despite my therapist's expressed interest....and recently my upset about this seems to have taken us further down the road towards not being 'suitable' for more therapy................

So, it seems Hex 7.2.2 is the good advice for me to get back on track......

Sorry this thread is now turning out to be in the wrong section.... :(
 
S

sooo

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This is not good. I avoid mistakes by a medication-taking ritual. Each pill container is labeled:

A: morning
B: night
AB: morning and night

My drugs are in the lid of a box. On one kitchen counter they are 'put away'. On the other counter, they are 'to be taken'. The physical movement from counter to counter helps me remember whether or not I have taken them. At night I move them from the 'put away' counter to the 'to be taken counter', take them, go to bed, and leave them there. In the morning I find them on the 'to be taken' counter, take them, and put them on the 'put away' counter. All this effort may sound absurd, but my short-term memory has been damaged by statin, and ten minutes after I take them, I do not remember whether or not I have taken them. A neighbor died last year from a medication-taking mistake, so take care and develop your own ritual. In practical terms this is far more important than meditation or prayer.

Please pardon the detour OT.

Thanks, Tom. I use a similar system but am changing a particular med from night to morning, for good reason. The system is what caused the confusion, as I thought I took it already but noticed in the early morning it was still in the evening compartment from the evening before, so I took it from there at 3am. It didn't take long to realize I must have taken one from the original container the eve before. Dumb, but I'm ok, and the switch to morning is being thus far affirmed as more effective and avoids unwanted nighttime side-effects. I wasn't suggesting replacing common sense with prayer, meditation or oracle readings, chuckle. Though it is a good reminder of that in general.
 
S

sooo

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You know we're getting old when rather than talking about sex we're comparing blood pressure readings.
 

TygerChild

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For anyone who isn't by now totally bored with my shenanigans...I received an email from Director of Services and Head of therapies today inviting me to a meeting at their office. This might sound hopeful. However....I had sent initially in response to their enquiry details about my commitments and availabilities etc...asking if because of my present vulnerabilities they wouldn't mind visiting me at home, and also asking if my previous cpn could join us by way of support.
The Director of Services totally ignored these absolutely polite and I think in the circumstances, reasonable requests/points and simply suggested I go to their office at end of next week for this meeting.........
How on earth could she have missed my questions? Did she even read my e mail properly? I cannot believe how again and again, this miscommunication is happening...! cock up after cock up. Really..! What IS going on here in the mental health trust?
Advocate is now about to launch in again and try to sort out how this has happened.
I asked I-Ching ""Why does M. not mention home visit and MC's support?""" and received Hexagram 17 - FOLLOWING. unchanging.
Now I think this may be saying I should comply and go to them and not hold out for them to come to me, with previous cpn, but......this still begs the question...and mystery...or even 'discounting' of me by these high-ups who seem to have totally missed or ignored my requests....absolutely as if I had not asked these things..!

Sorry if this is in the wrong section..again.....should I move it to the 'shared readings' now? If I do, I might miss my 'following' .... :brickwall:
 

Trojina

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is the forum playing up again ? posts seem to be moving about and now I am confused about your name as you have some posts as wisewoman and some posts as nemeanmagik. If you were going to stick to nemeanmagik I was going to ask if I can call you nema for short as nemeanmagik is a lot to keep typing out.
 

pocossin

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I had sent initially in response to their enquiry details about my commitments and availabilities etc...asking if because of my present vulnerabilities they wouldn't mind visiting me at home

Home visits from the NHS? Can such things be? Hardly a reasonable request unless you are quadriplegic or agoraphobic.

Why does M. not mention home visit and MC's support?
17 unchanging


I think they have already decided to change your medication.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section..again.....should I move it to the 'shared readings' now? If I do, I might miss my 'following'

I could do it but typically only act when there is a complaint, like the socks being in the wrong drawer or some such.
 

TygerChild

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Home visits from the NHS? Can such things be? Hardly a reasonable request unless you are quadriplegic or agoraphobic.

Why does M. not mention home visit and MC's support?
17 unchanging


I think they have already decided to change your medication.



I could do it but typically only act when there is a complaint, like the socks being in the wrong drawer or some such.

lol! cpn ordinarily visits me at home anyhow, so this is not unusual.... but the circumstances at this time are. Too difficult to explain in detail.

Guess the medication bit is a joke? It's nothing to do with that, this situation Pocossin...
 

Trojina

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Hi Anemos, (changed my username from 'wisewoman' to 'NemeanMagik'.)
Thank you for this.
Yes I have made my care team aware, but basically no real support but rather cock up after cock up...!


so are you wisewoman or nemeanmagik ? You have to choose one and delete the other
 

TygerChild

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The changeover to new username seems incomplete. There are glitches in the functioning. What pocossin calls multiple IDs is not deliberate, so can people stop lambasting me. Got private message re. this from Poc! NOT GUILTY!!
 

TygerChild

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ok well I will try Nemeanmagik - yes of course please shorten.....but it had better start working properly then!
 

anemos

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I asked I-Ching ""Why does M. not mention home visit and MC's support?""" and received Hexagram 17 - FOLLOWING. unchanging.

maybe because you resist and they try to make you clear that you have to follow.

If this service sucks, why don't you go to a private doc ? I don't think, and its just my personal opinion, that any therapy can work if the providers are not accepted by you. Why you waste your time ? What you expect from them ? You are not talking about a dentist or a GP.
 

NemeanMagik

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maybe because you resist and they try to make you clear that you have to follow.

If this service sucks, why don't you go to a private doc ? I don't think, and its just my personal opinion, that any therapy can work if the providers are not accepted by you. Why you waste your time ? What you expect from them ? You are not talking about a dentist or a GP.

'Private'? What do I pay with? This has to be understood in context Anemos -- these people are as I said, officials not practitioners. Thanks for your response but you have not understood that!
 

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