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Become or not to become?

mary f

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Hello everyone. I'd like to know your opinion on the following.
I am reading a lot about meet consumption. They are so bad that I'm considering becoming a vegetarian. I asked two questions (respectively "Becoming a vegetarian will make a real difference in my health?" and " "Is meet consumption really that bad?") and received:

2.2 >> 7 :confused:
then
13.4.5 >> 22 :confused:

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
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meng

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Hi Mary,

Becoming a vegetarian will make a real difference in my health?

2.2-7 achieves a good defense (immune system) without much effort. I also think this could suggest the result of eliminating meat is to becoming more passive in your life.

Is meet consumption really that bad?

Meat changes your relationship with your world outside of you. I think line 4 is again pointing a degree of aggression, which is lost through giving up meat. I see line 5 as saying that eventually your body and mind will adjust to either choice you make. 22 relates to a shining or showing life, the way fire illuminates a mountain.

I don't see the IC weighing in on which choice is best. They both seem to be fine in your case, but the effects within your life are different with each.
 

mary f

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Thanks Bruce.

" 2.2-7 achieves a good defense (immune system) without much effort. I also think this could suggest the result of eliminating meat is to becoming more passive in your life. "

But "passive"? You mean passive in terms of indolence?
 

lucia

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Of course, I can't speak for Bruce, but I don't think either he or Hex 2 means indolent (language is tricky in a forum where so many people have differing native languages no ?)

I think he means passive as in not aggressive. 2 is about being receptive.

And on a personal note I was a vegetarian for years (I'm not now) and I was never indolent and I know lots of high energy vegetarians!

Lucia
 
M

meng

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But "passive"? You mean passive in terms of indolence?

Lucia's correct. No, by passive I refer to the way of 2.2, which is open and allows things to happen, rather than exerting a big effort to make it happen, which would be a more aggressive way of doing things.

I've seen this to be quite true, in myself and people I've known, who either are or were vegetarians. There's some especially nice qualities a veggie diet seems to bring, but also there is lacking certain other qualities. I think what's important is to find which is best for the individual.
 

ivonne

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Anyway ,allow me a bit of a personal advice. If you eventually decide to go on a veg diet, then i would suggest taking, alongside health food :
omega 3 acids, magnezium plus vit B6.Drink a lot of green tea and eat a banana a day. Makes a person feel more balanced and happy .Good luck !

Ivonne
 

mary f

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Pretty clear guys, thanks.
That kind of passivity is so # 2... :)

Agree Lucia; it is tricky. Expressing even when all involved speak the same mother tongue is complex and we just had a good example, no?

Now I'm still puzzled ref the second reading ("Is meet that bad?" - 13.4.5 >> 22).
BTW Bruce, what would be "showing life"?

I don't know your experiences, but to be honest every time I tried to quit something I always ended up allowing some exeptions. Right or not is a question maybe I'm going to carry my whole life.

Mary
 

mary f

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:) Thank you Ivonne.
All advices are welcome.
 

lucia

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Mary
"Agree Lucia; it is tricky. Expressing even when all involved speak the same mother tongue is complex and we just had a good example, no? "

LOL - I think you are right there!

Lucia
 

ravenstar

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I think he means passive as in not aggressive. 2 is about being receptive.

And on a personal note I was a vegetarian for years (I'm not now) and I was never indolent and I know lots of high energy vegetarians!

Lucia

Hi mary,

If I may add two cents to the above passive/receptive.....vegetarian foods and fruits are considered 'alkaline' to the body. Meat is acidic. Our bodies are alkaline by design and acid by function. The greatest threat to our alkaline reserves is excess protein. In truth we are supposed to only have 25% protein in our diet daily and the rest fruits and vegetables.

I also caution you on drastically changing your diet....your body has to adjust to processing new foods and although they are good for you could end up with loose stools, headacnes and feeling yucky until the new regiem kicks in.

All the best to you...

ravenstar
 

Trojina

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Recently I had the most intense craving for meat I've ever known. It was absolutely unmistakeable, there was just no doubting my body wanted meat, and nothing but meat would do. I really trusted that, it wasn't anything like just 'fancying' the taste it was really basic...my body giving an order. Funny because I'm not very keen on meat but eat it occasionally. I had to obey the craving and made hearty beef stews etc all very out of character...and then got quite ill, more ill than I've been for a while with various infections. I'm quite certain for myself, as the craving was so unusual, that my body was asking for meat as defense against the approaching illnesses. I can't see anything wrong in eating meat, i think its very much a natural part of human survival/biology. The only thing that might be called wrong is the cruelty of factory farming etc but if an animal lives a natural life and is killed swiftly I can't see how it can be wrong. Its obvious we've evolved as meat eaters or we wouldn't have the sharp incisor teeth on each side that we have, we'd have blunt square teeth like herbivores. Of course some are more suited to be vegetarian they might be healthier that way but due to my recent meat craving/illness experience I'd definately go along with the idea that it gives a good immune system without too much effort (2.2) It really makes sense to me despite whatever nutritionists might say.

As for the 13.4.5 perhaps it point to us as a whole species. We freak out becuase we're told meat and other pretty basic human foodstuffs since the dawn of time are bad for us, take defensive measures (13.4) then realise we don't need to and return to a more balanced attitude to food...(13.5)

As I said before can't see anything inherently bad about killing an animal and eating it...as an animal myself it seem to be the food my body demands and I can't argue with nature. The only bad i see is depriving an animal of its natural life style, tiny pens, over crowding, concrete cages, all those horrors...so i always buy free range which hopefully doesn't have all the chemicals and fear hormones of the tortured factory farmed animal. I think all kids should learn about killing and preparing animals so they aren't so distanced from the meat they eat and have more respect for the life they have taken to nourish their own. If they understand whats involved in the killing of the animal then they can make their own choice of whether eating meat is something that they wish to do. I've seen a number of TV programmes here where teenagers on seeing an animal killed and prepared for the first itme weep inconsolably even though they've eaten meat their whole lives out of plastic wrapped packages. Terrible really how far removed they've been from where their food actually comes from....

Thats way more my opinion than it is I Ching reading I'm afraid but I've known others also describe this meat craving so i think it is a natural thing, something helpful to our immune systems, efficient food for our species (in moderation). I think you are best to follow what your own body tells you.
 
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em ching

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Hello!

Good question and amazing how the Yi seems to be straightforwardly answering - perhaps easier to read objectively when not an emotionally involved question.

2.2: 'Nature creates all beings without erring'
Seems to be reminding you that we were designed to eat meat so should respect that and not try and go against that (unless meat really does sicken you) As Trojan says, we have sharp teeth etc and have obviously evolved to eat meat, like lions and tigers and bears oh my! :))watched the film 'Australia' this eve v.good!)
But of course I also agree with Trojan - try and go free range local butcher etc! No turkey twizzlers or chicken nuggets I reckon.

'Man achieves the height of wisdom when all he does is as self evident as what nature does'
Again saying listen to nature, the circle of life, in some way our eco system relies on the predators and prey way of life, so follow that Tao.. as it were...

I am also not a big meat eater, but if it's being cooked, or I fancy it then I'll enjoy it.

Hex 7 could also be reminding you of how nature and society has been organised to survive, which includes eating meat..

I think perhaps hex 13 is saying that humans have always hunted together for meat; perhaps it precipitated a social ordering/ encouraged the organisation of the family (man hunting, woman at home etc..) and that, again is nature's way - to achieve Grace through survival by hunting for what the body needs to keep healthy... But I also feel that to have it everyday is not necessary... I feel heavy and go off it if I have too much - I have meat maybe once or twice a week and don't crave more than that.. perhaps it depends on blood type whether you crave more or not at all..

Have you decided which way to swing? :)

:bows:
 

Trojina

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Hello!
..

I think perhaps hex 13 is saying that humans have always hunted together for meat; perhaps it precipitated a social ordering/ encouraged the organisation of the family (man hunting, woman at home etc..) and that, again is nature's way - to achieve Grace through survival by hunting for what the body needs to keep healthy... But I also feel that to have it everyday is not necessary... I feel heavy and go off it if I have too much - I have meat maybe once or twice a week and don't crave more than that.. perhaps it depends on blood type whether you crave more or not at all..

Have you decided which way to swing? :)

:bows:

You know thats a very good point. If you think about it when we lived in small clans catching the meat and bringing it home was a really big deal socially as well as survival wise. And today our major festivals and celebrations revolve around the cooking of meat for the main feast, xmas dinner, thanksgiving in US etc. And I think you're right meat was always comparatively hard to come by, involved an amount of effort so probably it doesn't suit us to eat it everyday as some people do now when its so easy just to buy in a shop. Hunting big animals involved group effort and there was much ritual around it, think of the cave paintings of stone age men. Probably the hunting of meat very much shaped our experience as a human group..more than we now appreciate
 
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mary f

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Thanks Ravenstar, Trojan, Em Ching.

Sorry for this belated reply.

I've really studied thoroughly about vegetarianism and all pros and cons (more pros than cons).
I comprehend that diet balancing is possible and all protein can be found in the vegetal world, but what weighing is how is meet production in industrial scale, how the animals suffer (not only bovines) in the slaughter process, how anti-hygienic are the conditions and how prone to diseases are all pesticides. Also, this planet is heavily suffering with the meat industry and wrong agricultural practices.

BUT, for the time being I'll just keep doing what I'm doing, that is eating nearly zero meet. Only later I'll decide whether or not go into it once for all. As the readings seem to indicate, it won't be easy and I have to admit: I'm really not good in drastic decisions.

Your opinions were highly appreciated.
:)
 

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