Beginners' room

[hilary]

2 more cents: don't 'study' the I Ching in isolation from life. It's not a book to learn, but an oracle to talk to. Give yourself the gift of a reading a week, either on a question that's preoccupying you, or just asking for advice for the next 7 days. Study it in assorted translations by all means (my first three would definitely include Bradford's, available from his site), but above all study it through the medium of your own life. Besides, things stick in the mind better when they have personal associations.

I'm not sure whether this is the best way to memorise the words, but it works over time. If you want to have the whole book by memory (could be very useful), a traditional programme of memorise and review at intervals (1 hour, 1 day, 1 week, 1 month) would probably be fastest.

 

[anya]

Hi Kevin

Thought I'd update you on action so far. I've ordered the Steven Karcher book and have just enrolled on a web design course. I didn't use the I Ching to help choose my course, I guess that's something that I didn't have any difficulty in making a decision about. Even so, I'll definitely be sticking around and if I can help anyone else in any way then it will be my pleasure to do so.

Very best wishes
Anya

 

[silver_jaguar]

Thanks All

I'll try all these suggestions,and see which way works best for me

Silver

 

[alvaro]

hi there!

as some of you might remember i started to consult/study the i ching a few months ago. i've been doing this on and off. the most interesting aspect of this book for me is the use as a tool for insight. still haven't really tried it as an oracle.

now, i have a question, and i already know the answers won't be straight forward, but i would like to hear your comments.

is there any information we could get from the different lines in different positions? i mean do different lines represent different aspects
of one's reality, or different time points or something like this?

thanks!

alvaro

 

[cheiron]

Hi Alvero

Yes, but this is only one approach (albeit a common one).

Here is a paste from my notebook... I can give you more if you realy, realy want!

From Wilhelm - 'Structure of the Hexagrams' Book III
Notes that the first line represents a person or a time which is just entering the situation. The Dao if the time is just developing.

Similarly the top line is often for a person or dynamic which has passed the time or the Dao of the moment and is leaving the situation.

Both First and Top Lines are usually held to be outside the situation.

In addition each line represents the status of a person and their relationship to the whole:
Top Line A Sage or someone who has left the world of affairs like a retired King but who might be consulted by the 5th line. However this line is variable in nature and character being 'outside and after')
Fifth Line A Prince (or husband active in the world without)
Fourth Line Minister to the Prince (sometimes the princes wife and his second son)
Third Line Transitional to the upper trigram (a line to check in readings as it shows an inner transition)
Second Line An official or Captain in direct connection with the Prince (or a wife active in the house)
First line He/She who has not yet entered the situation (sometimes a vassal or lowly person)

The 4th line is in both the outer and inner nuclear hexagrams and is for that reason often unstable in character as it it transitional.

Each line has a character - firm or yielding; as central; as correct or not correct.

A line is central in the 2nd and 5th places. It is correct when it is a yang line in a Yang place eg. 1st; 3rd; 5th places or a Yin line in a Yin place eg. 2nd; 4th; 6th places.

When the Dao of the time calls for firmness or action the Yang lines are favourable. If the Dao of the moment is for yielding; following; waiting; or nurturing - then the Yin lines are favourable. This may mean that a Yin line in a firm place or a Yang line in a Yin place might be favourable as the ameliorate what would otherwise be too much firmness or too much yielding.

Similarly a yielding ruler might be favourable especially if supported by a firm official in the second place (the place with which the 5th line most relates.

Correspondence - Lines in analogous positions in the upper and lower trigram sometimes have an especially close relationship. This is the relationship of correspondence. As a rule firm lines only correspond to weak lines and vice versa. Thus 1st and 4th; 2nd and 5th; and 3rd and top lines seek to correspond. Of these it is the middle two lines (2nd and 5th) are the most important as they refer to the relationships of the Prince to the official; the husband to the wife; the manager to the worker.

Surprisingly there are good dynamics when there is a weak ruler and a strong official. (see p.361 - 362 for the exact hexagram's) and a yielding official and a strong prince is not nearly so auspicious.

Often a Yielding fourth line (an obedient minister) with a correspondence with a strong first line works well. Here an obedient official seeks strong servant for the service of his master. On the other hand a strong fourth line and a yielding first line is seen as tempting the fourth line into an intimate relationship with its inferiors - this is seen as inappropriate.

A relationship between the 3rd and top line hardly ever happens as the top line is already beyond the situation. Also the third line would be failing in loyalty to his prince in the fifth place by-passing him.

Holding Together - This is different from correspondence. The latter refers to a relationship appropriate, or inappropriate, a dynamic energy. Holding together implies something closer, a bond or union. Here the lower line of the pair 'receives' and the upper rests upon or is supported by the lower.

Here, in contradistinction to correspondence between the 3rd and 5th lines, a strong prince with a yielding minister is far more positive. This is because of the closeness of proximity and of the relationship. A strong minister with a weak prince is far less favourable.

When the 4th line is the ruler and it is strong it is often favourable. However the 4th line belongs to both the upper and the lower inner trigram's and is often unstable.

When the 5th line holds together with the top line it is often seen as a Prince receiving guidance from a sage. This is usually a weak line in the 5th relating to a strong top line. When the top line is yielding and the 5th is strong it is often seen as the Prince associating with inferior elements (Who are already moving away from the Dao of the time).

If the 1st & 2nd; 2nd & 3rd; 3rd & 4th are never in a situation of 'holding together' When it does occur (as in when a strong line rests on a weak line) then it is often seen as possible factionalism and is of inauspicious nature.

A weak line resting, inappropriately, on a strong line is often seen as a source of trouble.

Rulers: There are two kinds of rulers - Constituting and Governing.

Constituting rulers are those who give the hexagram its quality. They encapsulate the moment of thae particular Dao. as such it is always worth reading those lines in particular to see the dynamic more clearly.

Governing Rulers are the rulers who are always of good character. They are always appropriate to the time. Usually they are in the place but not always.

Sometimes the Governing Ruler is also the constituting Ruler. In these situations Wilhelm does not show a constituting Ruler.

If the Constituting ruler is not also the governing ruler it is always inappropriate to the time.

Rulers can be determined from the Tuanzhuan the 1st and 2nd Wings.

If the Hexagram is formed by the interaction of the two trigrams (for example Hx.21 Shi Ho - Bighting through is a graphical representation of the lines not an interaction of the trigrams) then there are two constituting rulers representing the dynamic.

Hope that helps.

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Alvero

Just a follow on from that? Remember those lines are also in trigrams (upper and lower) and that there is an inner hexagram (made up of lines 2,3,4, and 3,4,5)

These both affect the ?meaning? of each line as well as representing different aspects of the ?nature of the time? represented. So maybe that is the next place to go when you have a sense of line position.

I found it useful to read a lot of ?first lines? then ?second lines? and so on to get a sense of the meaning of the position?

Being able to work with hexagrams like this is really very useful (IMHO) as it can free you up from the text to a surprising degree. In other words when that ?moving line? just does not seem to fit at all into the nature of the time then looking at it in this other way can sometimes provide valuable insight? I can give examples if you like.

Now I shall let you get on with it?. Good luck

--Kevin

 

[cheiron]

Thanks for getting back Anya - Few folk do that and it is so helpful to my learning.

Strength to you

--Kevin

 

[deanna]

would anyone happen to have a good used book that you might like to sell to me? i don't have credit card or checks and would prefer to send cash (and i trust you guys and don't need a receipt anyway)

 

[just_me]

I would love to help you but all my books are keepers right now. Do you have a specific book in mind?

 

[heylise]

And finally to see it as pictures: http://www.anton-heyboer.org/i_ching/structures/

LiSe

 

[nikip]

I thought maybe you guys could help me with a school project. My 10th grade english teacher has asked a friend & I to do research on I Ching & give the class a demonstration of it.

We are both having a hard time understanding it, especially the lines. Are there any really basic websites that could help explain it? Do you guys also know of any simple ways we could explain this to our class?

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Nikip,

There is a very good book for kids on the I Ching. It is called I Ching for Teens.

My own son is 14 (the same age I was when I started using the Yi) and he used to look at me weird when I used the yarrow stalks to consult the Yi. I gave him this book as a gift and it speaks to him. I wish that book was available 30 years ago. It would have made things a little simpler for the teenager that I, at one time, was. But, what the heck, I was a Yi geek way back then and persevered with whatever was available...

Just click in the link above and you can get it for as little as $5.00.

Cheers,

Luis

PS: BTW, you have a very cool English teacher!!!

 

[hilary]

I Ching for Teens? Interesting idea. As for basic website - I think you're on it. Follow the 'practical I Ching' link at the top of the page. There's also an email course (free) that assumes no previous knowledge at all.

I would think that doing an actual reading in front of the class would demonstrate how it worked pretty clearly. Just ensure you ask a nice, clear question to start with - though not about anything that couldn't be discussed in public

.

Amazing English teacher.

 

[kerry]

Hi, I am new to this site and the I Ching. I have recently received a convincing I Ching response to a personal question, which appears to have validated its use for me.... at least temporarily (I do have some concerns related to its effectiveness). My question however, relates to a more global issue.

As the current situation in Iraq appears to spiral out of control (i.e. multiple foreign hostages, escalation of events, Sunni uprisings ect....), I have been debating whether or not the I Ching could possibly respond to a "global" question which could lead one to an understanding of a solution.

In my personal life as a project manager, I have many resolved many conflicts, and it is evident to me, that when one is forced to think through the question/problem, one begins to understand the process behind the problem and the answer will usually appear, without the need to consult an oracle. This is very left brain analytical thinking; however the situation in Iraq and the confusing array of conflicts and situations is a difficult dilemma, which is unfortunately leading to anguish for many, in and outside of Iraq.

Is the I Ching only meant for personal questions/prognostication or can it respond to questions of a global nature, which affect thousands?

As I thought about this, I began thinking what would happen if many posed a similar ?global? question related to this event (e.g. ?what must occur in order for stability to come in Iraq, or how will current the current hostage taking events play out?? ect...)

What would it say about the value of the I Ching if multiple answers came up, as they theoretically, should?

If the I Ching is tuned in to the Tao or something similar, should there not be only one response? To say that such a ?global? question would require many answers, hence the multiple I Ching responses, is valid and understandable. However if you were to follow this logic through, when it comes time to ask a personal question, one could possibly read a valid answer in any I Ching response. Thus where is the efficacy in the I Ching?

It leads me to the understanding that if the I Ching could make you focus and really think about your problem, an answer is really only a short distance away. Any I Ching response, when you read through and focus on your problem, will assist in leading you to an answer.

I would welcome any responses to this dilemma.
Thank you.

 

[dharma]

Welcome! to Clarity, Kerry

these are good questions and i'd like to share some of my own thoughts with you. perhaps my perspective will cast a little more light and insight to your own considerations -i hope they help.

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I have been debating whether or not the I Ching could possibly respond to a "global" question which could lead one to an understanding of a solution.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE> i believe it can. however, since the i ching is always speaking to the individual posing the question, the answer that surfaces is the prescriptive steps that *that* person could take towards the situation. it may not be the be-all to end-all type of resolution but something small, perhaps, that *that* person could do to help world conditions from their corner of the world.

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

As I thought about this, I began thinking what would happen if many posed a similar ?global? question related to this event (e.g. ?what must occur in order for stability to come in Iraq, or how will current the current hostage taking events play out?? ect...)<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE> here you have to consider: stability in/on who's terms? also, how events play out have to again be considered from the angle of perspective. for instance, who's asking, and how will events affect *them* because the i ching as an oracle would be addressing the individual for whom the question is being asked. at least, that's the way i see it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

If the I Ching is tuned in to the Tao or something similar,
should there not be only one response?<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE> again, who's Tao? as far as i know, there are as many "ways" are there are people.

from my responses you'll noticed that my take on global healing isn't something that happens *despite* individual people but very much dependant on each one of us collaborating; recognizing our individual roles and being active participants in world events. otherwise, what is the point of any question being asked if an individual person isn't able to get around the response sufficiently to help rectify the situation that is being asked about?

anyway, that's what i have to offer at this time. hope it is useful to you. enjoy your personal journey into the heart of the I Ching - at the very least, you will have found yourself a useful and dependable friend

 

[kerry]

Dharma,
Thanks for the insights, they are much appreciated.

 

[seeker]

Hi. I'm new to the I Ching and having a lot of trouble interpreting it. I have used Tarot in the past, but from what I have been reading, thought the I Ching might give more straight forward answers, and I think it does, if I could just figure out what it says. I am having difficulty in my marriage. After 7 years together, we were growing apart and quite unexpectedly I met someone else. My husband wants me to stay. I am trying to figure out what direction to take. I asked 2 questions, if I should stay with my husband, for which I got 38 Opposition and 11 Peace, huh? These seem to be opposing answers??? I also asked if I should be with the other person and got 63 Contemplation and 5 Waiting. Again, huh??? Any ideas??? Help please.

 

[soshin]

Welcome to the club!

Sorry for not answering sooner, but the beginners room tended to be very empty lately, nobody looks here, so I think it is better you ask again in the Friends Area, where a lot more traffic is around. Don't hesitate, we are a friendly gang. ;.)

I will consider your question in depth until tomorrow and will write my two eurocents worth.

Happy to have you here!

Soshin

Btw. VERY interesting answers.

 

[soshin]

Oh, well!

I saw you figured it out all by yourself where it is better to post ... heeeheee...

The interpretations of the others you already got are very good as always. Please let me know if you are interested in a third opinion.

Namaste,

Soshin

 

[rho]

After a long time brewing a great friendship reached a different level a few weeks back(no sex,but emotional,truthfull & passionate)...for the 1st time in my life I experienced true Reality,absolute Trust and true Bliss, I feel like I have changed forever because of it. Only problem is he's still married and the marriage has been a bit unfulfilling for years now. I know how he feels about me, and I feel the same but I haven't told him yet...The question was "How should I conduct myself with...?" I'm thinking that my reply was something along the lines of, not going any further, no torrid affair (which i'm not into anyway)and just keep getting on with my own personal development, and as time goes on things will work out...but i just don't know, I really am finding it difficult to fully gain benefit from this reply...can anyone help me achieve clarity? I'd really appreciate it

 

[rho]

Ooops, sorry I looked at my notes today and realised that I typed the totally wrong Relating Hexagram the whole reading was infact..53: 6 in 4th & 9 in 6th changing to 31. Anyway, I've reposted in the Friends Room!

 

[sheilae]

I have had trouble with my boyfriend. he is averse to intimacy. uses the "This is a trap" term and i have tried different ways of getting to him and am on the brink of giving up. I know him for the last 2 years and he is everything i want in a man. except his aversion for intimacy (emotional). I got hexagram 35 to the above question.

Should i give up....i am loosing hope here.

 

[annietyme]

"The one who always carries along arrows is probably the only one who comes home from a walk with a rabbit for dinner."

It sounds a lot like he is not ready for intimacy due to a fear of commitment.
Has he been through a relationship that did damage to him in the past couple of years?

"Grasp the small chances, do not wait for the big one to arrive, stay alert with eyes and ears and hands ready, and a quiver filled with arrows. "

I would love to hear what liSe would have to say about this one. There were no changing lines at all?

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Shellae

"The light rises over the Earth"
Dawn of Day, the original and still the ultimate wakeup call.

The issue needs to be opened up completely.

I think it's time to lay it all out, and then do whatever moving forward the sunlight indicates.

"We're burning daylight" saith the bard.

 

[sheilae]

Hi! No there were not any changing lines. Bardford are you encouraging me to stay or give up i am confused?

At this moment in time after 2 long years i dont want to give up. all my friends think i shoudld

.

 

[bradford_h]

Shellae
Not saying to stay, not saying to give up.
Open it up. Put it out there.
Say what you feel, what you mean, what you need.
And what you can't continue without.
35 is for honesty and full dislosure.
What can't survive that may not be worth having.

 

[sheilae]

I took your advice, Bradford and placed all my cards on the table. I told him essentially how i felt helpless and the fact that our relationship was going no where. My boyfriend said he needs to think about what i said. I enquired with the Iching and i got 36.1 changing to hexagram 15. Can you or anyone else help me with this reading? thanks for all the help.

 

[bradford_h]

Hi Shellae-
That was brave. Good on ya mate!
It seems like 3/4 of the questions here are about relationships, and 3/4 of those problems come from an inability to communicate with the one who is supposedly your best friend.
The first thing to notice of course is that 36 is the inverse and reverse of your former 35. Light and Earth have switched places.
This might be his "equal and opposite reaction" to your opening up.
As for 36.1, read all the words carefully. I would give him at least three full days to absorb it, not pursuing him or hounding him in any way. If he needs to pretend to be wounded, or to have loss his appetute, let him run with it. You needn't buy it.
But after three days, ask again, the Yi first if you need to.

 

[sheilae]

Bradford,
thank for the encouraging note! I have left him to his own devices for more than three days. but i realise now asking him about what he has been ruminating over needs more courage than actually admitting my feelings and telling him what i need. its almost show time :-(.

i queried the I-Ching and i got 8.5 followed by hexagram 2. Help!

 

[bradford_h]

Hi again
Help with what? Not in interpreting this line?
This line is "to hold with an open hand".
You have left him the option to leave, and if he does, then he doesn't belong, and you can get on with your life (after some emotions have settled at least). And if he doesn't leave he'll need to make a clearer commitment. In either event, you'll be better off than you were. Most suffering is optional - hang in there.