Blog post: Trusting in stripping away

[pantherpanther]

Dui is about what all our bodily apertures receive - think Anthony Quinn as Zorba the Greek working with this. Use it , cultivate it, but don't allow it to mix wrongly with one's aim and work . What happens in Las Vegas should stay in Las Vegas. Tiger spoke at his public presentation of Buddhism and 'it's teaching restraint.' Perhaps he needs more tasteful dui and less restraint? Sex energy can be used for transformation. Use it or lose it. Emotion and desire can be a drag and a waste. St Jerome's lion wished to be St Jerome.

St Jerome Pulling a Thorn from a Lion's Paw 1452
Benozzo di Lese di Sandro Gozzoli

 

[meng]

Frank,

Please do us both a favor and move on to addressing those who care about what you have to say. If you have something personal to add to me, please open a thread in Moderation, which is where 3/4 of this thread belongs anyway.

I've been genuinely interested in Hilary's original post, but as is often the case here, conversation becomes debate, which becomes all about winning a competition of who is more right and who is smarter, blah, blah. It makes getting back to specifics on her original topic very difficult, without receiving another long winded lecture on the entire subject by those who claim to know everything about absolutely everything.

I simply was asking the source of the original post (Hilary) for her (or others') further thoughts on this western cat-woman figure, and adding the thought that rather than being a malevolent influence, she might actually be the shaman's ally. It's a very common theme in shamanism. Hence my inquiring further from those who may actually know something of the mythology and shamanistic practice of that time. And, that whatever dark, silty organic matter exists is a product of the lake itself, not from an ally, even if she has been depicted as an evil and inhuman creature by the townsfolk.

 

[pantherpanther]

I believe lack of protection was/is central to what Hilary's initial post was/is about. The shaman she refers to fails to protect herself from the influence of the distant primitive mother, depicted as a the whistling feline. It's an interesting connection. But I still do not see the necessity of her being a decadent influence. Severe, inhuman, instinctive, yesbut the dark and the murky exist already within Dui. Perhaps it is the protection of the cat which keeps the shaman safe from the dark aspects of the swamp.

..

I love cats. They like to win. Humans are losers: They want to be loved but not to love. Selfish and self-destructive creatures. I had a friend who was a professional hit man, a gun for hire. He killed a lot of people. A very gentle, caring soul otherwise.

The academic and spiritual interest in traditional teachings is an indication of the sense that some humans seek meaning for their lives. As is shown by the Internet, very few know anything about
the mind and the body or what it means to be "human." Pouring from the empty into the Void and putting old wine into new bottles, characterizes much of what intellectuals and so-called gurus always do.

"'Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
— Rainer Maria Rilke

 

[hilary]

I feel as if I should be here posting... unfortunately there are 23 other places I should be, too. Usual problem.

All I'm doing is putting together dui as human figure (not just some random way of writing it, but the oldest form we have of the character), its association with the West and a daughter, its small tendency to show up in the vicinity of tigers in Yi (so small it might not be significant), the 'shamaness' reference in the shuogua, and the Queen Mother of the West, who "in appearance is like a human, with a panther's tail and a tiger's fangs, and she is a fine whistler." Just a set of associations in the background - needn't add up to anything specific, it's just part of the lake we go fishing in for readings.

Another one for the set of associations around dui: the salient - see Harmen's article. What has that to do with lakes? Well... consider the action of water seeping into cracks.

Somewhere I have seen accounts of very ancient Chinese burials with the body flanked by tiger and dragon, and a suggestion that the tiger accompanied and protected the shaman when journeying. Unfortunately this is real thick lake-mud of memory, the boots-and-shopping-trolleys layer. Hopefully someone can locate this, as I have to be in one or more of the 23 other places again...

 

[meng]

23 other places, how coincidental. heh

Just a set of associations in the background - needn't add up to anything specific, it's just part of the lake we go fishing in for readings.

Needn't not add up to anything specific either. I find the associations to fit quite easily, naturally and usefully, even if you didn't intend them. And that is what I was asking, so thanks for answering.

 

[fkegan]

Hi Hilary,

The various associations to hex 58 line 5 are all based upon hex 58 being about sincerity or trusting and line 5 being a strong line in a strong place and a ruling place with an open line above it in the 6th place which is the place of the sage and the setting sun which would yield notions of a female shaman in the West and other imagery.

My questioning of the calligraphy was not about its age or origin; but rather seeing it as a Western modern art drawing of a European ballerina rather than an ancient Chinese brush stroke image of Chinese metaphors.

Yellowbridge notes the character as being about a smiling person with the meaning of folks getting together to exchange valuable things or sell or exchange for cash.

Overall, following the words on their own leads to peculiar associations. Harmon sees connections to the military formation of the salient or surrounding the enemy on three sides thus threatening to overwhelm while offering an easy path to retreat so the advancing army imposes both a strong attack and a clear alternative to fighting.

All of these various imagery and words can be associated to the simple three line structure of an imposing two strong lines behind an open space. When expanded to the hex 58 line 5 there is the added emphasis that this fifth line is expected to be strong and not be tempted by the open space ahead of it.

All these many associations are delightful. It is just a matter of keeping them together within the context of the line symbolism rather than following the temptations of the possible open spaces that may lead into the swamp.

Frank

 

[pantherpanther]

Hi Hilary,

The various associations to hex 58 line 5 are all based upon hex 58 being about sincerity or trusting and line 5 being a strong line in a strong place and a ruling place with an open line above it in the 6th place which is the place of the sage and the setting sun which would yield notions of a female shaman in the West and other imagery.

My questioning of the calligraphy was not about its age or origin; but rather seeing it as a Western modern art drawing of a European ballerina rather than an ancient Chinese brush stroke image of Chinese metaphors.

Yellowbridge notes the character as being about a smiling person with the meaning of folks getting together to exchange valuable things or sell or exchange for cash.''



Yellowbridge made me think of Anthony Quinn as Zorba the Greek.
He is not a "trickster" but he is open to the ground of our instinctual
life as are shamans . Most societies are afraid of their instincts. They
make rules about "good" and "evil" that don't make sense. They wish to
feel "moral" by keeping the " evil" hidden below the surface .
The image of an open mouth indicates all the apertures that
that receive food, air and impressions.
"'Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses
Rilke

 

[pantherpanther]

Frank k. wrote:
...with an open line above it in the 6th place which is the place of the sage and the setting sun which would yield notions of a female shaman in the West and other imagery.

Frank,
You make an insightful point on how Westerners may interpret Eastern metaphors and images. The Chinese may interpret them in various ways, but we can be sure they have cultivated a different worldview .

Wilhelm strove to faithfully present a Confucian version of the I Ching .Jung interpreted it based on his very Western worldview, which doesnot fully reflect the Chinese worldview and understanding of the I Ching or how they approach it and use it.

The Taoist approach in general and to the I Ching specifically is perhaps more understandable to Westerners.Taoist understanding of human energy anatomy corresponds to Western teachings which have been transmitted for centuries. The practices taught in the East and West are very similar.

" The future enters into us, in order to transform itself in us, long before it happens." as Rainer Maria Rilke said. A Taoist would understand and agree. The Taoists knew, as did teachings in the West, about working with food, air and impressions consciously to transform the body/being. To build the Rainbow Body, they taught how some of the energy received ,through right practices, can be retained and used for this. The making of second body is an essential part of Western teachings (including the Early Christian)Those who don't know and practice do not evolve.Most humans in our time are "educated" to suppress their essence and do not "grow up" to become normal human beings. They are easily manipulated by others to believe what they are told (as the idea of Progress) and obey. This favors psychopaths becoming the leaders and power-possessors. The sages offer the wisdom to see the situation as it is and become more normal humans.

The I Ching was based on a universal knowledge of the macrocosm and the microcosm. Although a Westerner may not fully comprehend the text and images or how the Orientals approach it, there is common ground for those who cultivate energy and learn to work with the ascending and descending (evolutionary and involutionary) currents in life which the I Ching Hex system describes in a complete fashion.

One can study all the interpretations and translations of any teaching and understand very little of their meaning. It takes gold to make gold. Some discover in themselves a wish to be real and this "holy desire" can become the ground for a quest .

PS
Kindly note my revisions. Clarity became totally lost for awhile.

 

[fkegan]

The I Ching was based on a universal knowledge of the macrocosm and the microcosm.

Hi Panther,

I would think the specific macrocosm/microcosm notion was more a European conceit based upon their belief that Genesis described the engineering blueprints of God's creation of the Universe.

There are universal roots of number symbolism and patterns that appear globally in the 6th century BCE that help to explain the earlier innovation of the King Wen Sequence and the Chou I Ching.

The use of the hexagrams in various spiritual practices would be another level of work, not based upon the original essence of the Chou I Ching but on the later practices developed by others.

Note: Panther has opened a new thread in Open Space that relates to his post as well.

Frank

 

[pantherpanther]

Frank,
I noted your weighty response on Open Space. We have been, before, all whichways on what energy is, apparently not finding a common ground. We think along the same lines mostly.