Bought a new edition of the I Ching, was it a mistake? 50.3 > 64

[foxx777]

Over the years I’ve bought several editions of the I Ching (Wilhelm, Legge, Richard Lynn, and several with lesser known editors) but this latest is upsetting me with it’s over emphasis on mysticism and it’s lengthy commentary.

Was it a mistake to buy it?
50.3>64

From Ewald Berker’s Yi Jing:
50. The Caldron
Line 3:
An ear of the caldron breaks off,
so that one is stopped from moving it.
The fat pheasant is not eaten.
Right then the rain wanes.
Aversion, but eventually good fortune.

There is a problem that stops one from moving the result of the transformation to where it is needed. Things will go well again, this situation is just a temporary setback.

I guess I’ll hope that “the rain wanes” and that aversion to it will go away.

 

[moss elk]

Hi,

My experience of 50.3 has been where one is cooking up something,
And the one you are cooking for doesn't appreciate it (the pheasants meat uneaten)
(They don't have the ears to hear it)
The cool rain can wash away regret/resentments that come from not being appreciated.

 

[Freedda]

Just seeing this little bit, it's hard for me to pass judgment. But looking at two other interpretations of line 50.3 ....

Nine in the third place means:
The handle of the ting is altered.
One is impeded in his way of life.
The fat of the pheasant is not eaten.
Once rain falls, remorse is spent.
Good fortune comes in the end.

And ...
The cauldron’s ears have been altered
Its function is impaired
The pheasant’s rich meat is not eaten
A sudden rain would diminish regrets
In the end, an opportunity.

... it seems that the meaning and imagery your book conveys in the line text is not all that different than these two. So, perhaps it would be a good version for you in looking at the oracle and line text, but not so much his commentary?

... and a bit of a stretch, but perhaps the bent cauldron ear and the too rich meat are what's to be avoided here - as in the commentary, while the actual text might be new and refreshing?

Best, d.

PS - I just looked at a few more hexagram interpretations at his website https://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/lines ... one of them worked for me, the other didn't.

 

[foxx777]

Just seeing this little bit, it's hard for me to pass judgment. But looking at two other interpretations of line 50.3 ....

Nine in the third place means:
The handle of the ting is altered.
One is impeded in his way of life.
The fat of the pheasant is not eaten.
Once rain falls, remorse is spent.
Good fortune comes in the end.

And ...
The cauldron’s ears have been altered
Its function is impaired
The pheasant’s rich meat is not eaten
A sudden rain would diminish regrets
In the end, an opportunity.

... it seems that the meaning and imagery your book conveys in the line text is not all that different than these two. So, perhaps it would be a good version for you in looking at the oracle and line text, but not so much his commentary?

... and a bit of a stretch, but perhaps the bent cauldron ear and the too rich meat are what's to be avoided here - as in the commentary, while the actual text might be new and refreshing?

Best, d.

That’s very helpful and resonates with my own intuition, thanks.

 

[foxx777]

Hi,

My experience of 50.3 has been where one is cooking up something,
And the one you are cooking for doesn't appreciate it (the pheasants meat uneaten)
(They don't have the ears to hear it)
The cool rain can wash away regret/resentments that come from not being appreciated.

Thanks. Interesting.....In this instance it would seem that the book is something cooked up, and I’m unable to appreciate it and have no ears to hear. There is just an over abundance of spiritual scolding and lecturing that I can’t tolerate...I wonder what the rain would be?

 

[Freedda]

PS - I just looked at a few more hexagram interpretations at his website https://www.eclecticenergies.com/iching/lines ... one of them worked for me, the other didn't.

 

[moss elk]

Thanks. Interesting.....In this instance it would seem that the book is something cooked up, and I’m unable to appreciate it and have no ears to hear. There is just an over abundance of spiritual scolding and lecturing that I can’t tolerate...I wonder what the rain would be?

I think the rain would fall on the authors head, and cool them off.
"how dare they not like my scolding!"

Yi does have a few ways to scold and even mock us, though.

The website calls Hex 1 "Sunrise",
this is a terrible thing to change the name so greatly. It makes me wonder what goes through peoples heads when they do that.
I can only think it occurs in an extremely isolated mind, or an arrogant one.

 

[marybluesky]

Maybe it unsettles your views for a while but everything will be OK after you get familiar with its ideas.

 

[Trojina]

Without using the reading I can't see why you'd need to get used to a version of the I Ching that centres wholly around the author's world view. No translation or commentary can escape being suffused to some degree with the author's take on life but some, go so far with pushing their message through the medium of the I Ching it's not really the I Ching any more.

If it's actually upsetting you then put it to one side for a while. This is in line with the reading. In 50.3 one cannot 'get a handle' on things, there's no way to hold this or hear it, Hilary sometimes sees the ears of the Ting as our literal ears. what we will hear and what we won't.

Well at this point you just can't deal with it but in time it may be that you will be able to see it in context of all the books there and it will be one you pull out now and then. Many years ago when there were no forums some Yi books would upset me a great deal because I saw their author's as having more authority more knowledge, more certainty on the meaning of a line than they ever really had. I can see now some were the most ludicrously harmful interpretations imaginable yet I still have these books and even yesterday looked at the one I now consider really silly. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day as they say and sometimes that author's perspective is just something to consider.


So I haven't given away any Yi books except I think the Taoist I Ching by Cleary I think and I got rid of my 'Buddhist I Ching' (can't recall author) because I considered they were not the I Ching but expositions of the author's beliefs. maybe it wasn't even that I just really didn't like them at all.

50.3 is the line that isn't yet cooked (64 relating) in 50.

 

[foxx777]

Without using the reading I can't see why you'd need to get used to a version of the I Ching that centres wholly around the author's world view. No translation or commentary can escape being suffused to some degree with the author's take on life but some, go so far with pushing their message through the medium of the I Ching it's not really the I Ching any more.

If it's actually upsetting you then put it to one side for a while. This is in line with the reading. In 50.3 one cannot 'get a handle' on things, there's no way to hold this or hear it, Hilary sometimes sees the ears of the Ting as our literal ears. what we will hear and what we won't.

Well at this point you just can't deal with it but in time it may be that you will be able to see it in context of all the books there and it will be one you pull out now and then. Many years ago when there were no forums some Yi books would upset me a great deal because I saw their author's as having more authority more knowledge, more certainty on the meaning of a line than they ever really had. I can see now some were the most ludicrously harmful interpretations imaginable yet I still have these books and even yesterday looked at the one I now consider really silly. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day as they say and sometimes that author's perspective is just something to consider.


So I haven't given away any Yi books except I think the Taoist I Ching by Cleary I think and I got rid of my 'Buddhist I Ching' (can't recall author) because I considered they were not the I Ching but expositions of the author's beliefs. maybe it wasn't even that I just really didn't like them at all.

50.3 is the line that isn't yet cooked (64 relating) in 50.

Thanks, that’s a really interesting perspective and it’s true in this case that the author is using the I Ching to write her own doctrine and ideology which sometimes borders on the absurd. But as you say if one realizes this then everything is grist for the mill.

 

[foxx777]

Maybe it unsettles your views for a while but everything will be OK after you get familiar with its ideas.

That makes good sense, thanks.

 

[foxx777]

I think the rain would fall on the authors head, and cool them off.
"how dare they not like my scolding!"

Yi does have a few ways to scold and even mock us, though.

The website calls Hex 1 "Sunrise",
this is a terrible thing to change the name so greatly. It makes me wonder what goes through peoples heads when they do that.
I can only think it occurs in an extremely isolated mind, or an arrogant one.

Yes, as we know all too well as with religious scripture, great works can be used by people for their own ends, and the I Ching is no different.

 

[rosada]

Was it a mistake for you to buy it?
Well the author doesn't seem to think it so:

50.3
The reader doesn't appreciate my work.
They don't have the ears to hear what I'm saying!
But hey, I still get pennies from heaven [royalties], so I'm cool.

64.
Besides, they haven't completed reading it yet.

 

[Freedda]

Was it a mistake to buy it?
50.3>64

Over the last few years I've bought probably a few dozen versions of the Yi which I never look at. So, if you've only bought one that might end up being a mistake, well ... I guess my fiddle on which to play you a sad tune is pretty tiny.

Kidding aside, for all the versions I have, I've usually gotten a sense pretty quickly of how much the version makes sense to me or if I'll find it useful. The other day I pulled out one of the versions I'd set aside a few years ago, to see what it might offer for a particular reading and it, still, confirmed for me why I'd set it aside in the first place. Which is not to say that maybe in five or ten years I might not pull it out again and think, 'wow, what have I been missing all these years'! But it is much more likely I'll get rid of it before then.

(This reminds me of something Bradford Hatcher said - that he read every version of the Yi which he owns twice! which is much more dedication that I have.)

Lately most of my 'Yi' book purchases have been books about the Yi, or about divination in ancient China (and a copy of Jung's writings on synchronicity). And I'm hoping that after I retire at the end of the year I'll actually have some time to read them.

D.

 

[foxx777]

Was it a mistake for you to buy it?
Well the author doesn't seem to think it so:

50.3
The reader doesn't appreciate my work.
They don't have the ears to hear what I'm saying!
But hey, I still get pennies from heaven [royalties], so I'm cool.

64.
Besides, they haven't completed reading it yet.

.........

 

[foxx777]

Over the last few years I've bought probably a few dozen versions of the Yi which I never look at. So, if you've only bought one that might end up being a mistake, well ... I guess my fiddle on which to play you a sad tune is pretty tiny.

Kidding aside, for all the versions I have, I've usually gotten a sense pretty quickly of how much the version makes sense to me or if I'll find it useful. The other day I pulled out one of the versions I'd set aside a few years ago, to see what it might offer for a particular reading and it, still, confirmed for me why I'd set it aside in the first place. Which is not to say that maybe in five or ten years I might not pull it out again and think, 'wow, what have I been missing all these years'! But it is much more likely I'll get rid of it before then.

(This reminds me of something Bradford Hatcher said - that he read every version of the Yi which he owns twice! which is much more dedication that I have.)

Lately most of my 'Yi' book purchases have been books about the Yi, or about divination in ancient China (and a copy of Jung's writings on synchronicity). And I'm hoping that after I retire at the end of the year I'll actually have some time to read them.

D.

Thanks much for this input. Yes I also have commentary about the I Ching, and now this latest is a combined edition of translation of the hexagrams images, judgements and lines, along with loads of ideology and interpretation. As to it’s future usefulness: Time will tell......

 

[Freedda]

... and now this latest is a combined edition of ... along with loads of ideology and interpretation ....

I may be stating the obvious - and something you already know - but I try to first find meanings in the text and imagery of the Yi, and only after that do I sometimes look at the commentary - or what others have to say about what the Yi is about.

And I will often look to the commentary to gain a different perspective, to maybe say, hmmm, I never looked at it like that, and from there I can form my own ideas about the meanings - as opposed to looking at the commentary for the complete answers, like saying, 'yes, that's what it's about.' Because that is only what it's about from another's perspective, and their view is likely different than yours, and could also be entirely skewed or wrong!

Best, D.

 

[foxx777]

I may be stating the obvious - and something you already know - but I try to first find meanings in the text and imagery of the Yi, and only after that do I sometimes look at the commentary - or what others have to say about what the Yi is about.

And I will often look to the commentary to gain a different perspective, to maybe say, hmmm, I never looked at it like that, and from there I can form my own ideas about the meanings - as opposed to looking at the commentary for the complete answers, like saying, 'yes, that's what it's about.' Because that is only what it's about from another's perspective, and their view is likely different than yours, and could also be entirely skewed or wrong!

Best, D.

Thank you; that makes a great deal of sense.