Brazilian Taoist I Ching Master - Interview by E. Britto

[midaughter]

Never ever dogma or rote learning, no privileged hierarchies. One can imagine the correct direction as I have said. In Taoism, the idea of the total noncomformist, spontaneous, life-affirming zaniness may be closer to the true nature of things...

The only time direction is important is a major ritual - such as the Pace of Yu. The ceremony is so powerful, one follows the path gone by others before...trust you teachers (you decide who is a true master) Ni does not like to be called 'master' by the way.

I feel a lot of distrust of authority is being projected here by some. All well and good, but you always ask the Yi, your unfailing friend along the path. I asked about Ni once and received Hexagram 42, Increase. That's about the best reading you can get. Another would be 14:6.
Now, some years later I have been allowed to see his workings in the Subtle Realm. Quite amazing..

 

[jesed]

Yes, his works are inlighting...

 

[midaughter]

Ni, the name meaning 'seeing against the flow of time' takes no students but assists adepts in the Subtle Realm. He works behind the scenes and absolutely seeks no followers. I consider him a spiritual friend. He works with the Universal Energy and likes to stay in complete harmony with these energies. In I Ching terms he is the eldest son and will perform the Pace of Yu on the Winter Solstice. http://fortunecity.com/business/influence/1805/page_of_the_eldest_son.htm

 

[bruce]

Void, if you?re still interested, here are differences expressed from a business perspective. It?s pretty dry reading, but it does illustrate fundamental differences in a clear manner.

East and West

 

[pakua]

Very interesting Bruce, especially the bit about the Oedipus myth. I had believed that it was universal. Now it makes me wonder if anything is universal.

 

[void]

Well thanks Bruce, its stuff I was certainly aware of. What kicked me off initially was what I believed was a certain assumption of 'Eastern thought good, Western thought bad' which as you can tell I don't buy - and that article bears it out. I don't think LiSe meant that anyway, she said it more as a figure of speech and was pointing at very broad cultural differences. And yes these differences exist. But I don't accept that history doesn't matter, that facts don't matter , etc etc etc and I'm sure LiSe doesn't either since she is a researcher and is clearly an independent thinker.

Being western I just can't help but appreciate all the good things 'western thought' has bought me - education, the choice whether or not to have children, the choice to live alone or not...these are choices I appreciate. Plus as mentioned earlier there is plently of western mysticism - spirituality is not an area solely owned by the east.

Pakua, Freud believed the Oedipus complex was universal,(obviously babies have ids whereever they are born) but it is highly controversial even in the west. So if the article is saying Western culture is rooted in Freudian theory (who only lived a century or so ago) then I would be skeptical to put it mildly - we would have to go further back than 100 years or so. Besides Freudian theory is just a theory, it doesn't define a whole culture.

Anyway it was an interesting article Bruce, thankyou for posting it.

 

[bruce]

Good and bad are straw dogs. I would never suggest one is good or bad. Both have strengths and weaknesses. But as to understanding the Yi, it does require understanding the eastern mind, at least as best as we're able.

Hi Pakua. I absolutely believe in universals, but also that our way of "seeing" universals creates a different kind of understanding. Best way I know to explain it is: east is 64 and west is 63, though it is the same universal both are looking at.

 

[bruce]

Also, Void, I agree that there?s many commonalities between western (US specifically) ancient indigenous people?s views and eastern myth and ideology. I think this is most obvious in the art of both cultures, especially so when comparing Tibetan motifs with those from American Indians. This curiously coincides with the theory that nomadic tribes from the east made their way into the US by way of Russia and Alaska.

 

[void]

But is the eastern mind now the same mind that wrote the Yi Jing a very very long time ago ?

The 'western mind' now is not the same mind as in the 11th century for example. If I wanted to know much about the mind of an 11th century monk being western wouldn't help me much - I'd turn to an academic, or a medium (lol)

Seems to me, and I admit my ignorance but this is how it seems - we know more know about original true meaning of Yi Jing through the work of western scholars than we ever did before, when it was buried under layers of confucianism These scholars may care about dates, they may care about facts, this adds to our understanding it does not detract from it. The above quotes by Sunpeurh I felt indirectly undermined their efforts as unimportant.

I felt that was the subtext ? I am quite open to the possibility that I am wrong of course ?

 

[bruce]

It's a good question. There's been a lot of changes in China, for sure. Enough (yet) to think the same as a typical westerner? Maccoby's observation is that the fundamental differences still exist.

 

[heylise]

It might be that it is the combination of Eastern and Western thinking, which contributes so much to the understanding of Yi Jing. And they both happen to be "now", but we also have the "sayings of antiquity And many deeds of the past". A huge resevoir of present and past knowledge, philosophy and insights.

In China the Yi has been explored to exhaustion. Nowadays not many people over there are still interested. Here we are just starting, giving it a new impulse. In the wonderful position of having access to both worlds. Usually things get lost before they are re-discovered, causing a huge loss of knowledge. I am happy that we can still connect to China now, China back then, and also to us now and us back then. A lot is missing, but a lot is still present.

Maybe that is why the Yi referred to itself, coming to the West, as the ding. Time to cook the big soup.

LiSe

 

[midaughter]

As I read my last post it seems that I am saying that Hua Ching Ni should be for everyone. I did not mean that. What I meant to say was that the I Ching itself will tell you which teacher or path is right for you.
Lise is right, we have a great opportunity here in the West-archeological discoveries, more information on the Yellow River tribes and cultures, more learned people, East and West, and this great access to information via the internet plus a generation in the West that has become very knowledgeable in the Book of Changes and will in turn share their knowledge with others

 

[midaughter]

Our language structure determines much of how we see 'reality'. The important thing is to be aware that the Chinese think in processes and we think in terms of separate things. To the Chinese It is the flow of energy rather than its component parts. So in the West when you look at yin-yang theory you think of the two components (yin on one hand and yang on the other) The Chinese would think in terms of the flow of energy between them. aLSO, for example, In 5 element theory: The Chinese system focuses on energy and its transformations, not on form and substance. The elements thus symbolize the ACTIVITIES of the energies with which they are associated.


No way of looking at things in inherently 'better.' Just realize that the I Ching comes from the energy process perspective and your understanding of the I Ching will benefit.

 

[cal val]

fyi... just to make sure a connection wasn't meant between Harry Potter and Disney way back there... *pointing to the archived bit of this thread*.... there is no connection.

Harry Potter is a Warner Bros property. And Harry Potter is a vastly different kind of product than your 'stereotypical' Disney genre film. If you haven't yet read or seen Harry Potter, doing so would greatly enhance your understanding of it's uniqueness and 'fit' into the world of filmmaking.

Speaking of Disney, The Chronicles of Narnia is to be released in December (at least locally). I recently received an invitation in the mail to pre-purchase tickets for the El Capitan (Disney's theatre in Hollywood). The Chronicles of Narnia is, I believe, a departure as well from the 'stereotypical' Disney film.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

Hiya Sun...

Where ya been? How's your health? Doing well I hope.

Love,

Val

PS... I've picked up a browser hijacker the last two times I've been to your site. Are you aware whether there's something piggybacked there or not?

 

[bruce]

Hi Val, nope, was comparing east and west. The model I used for east was 'crouching tiger hidden dragon', which I was jaundiced about seeing until I saw it. Great flick, imo.

 

[cal val]

Hi Bruce...

I loved it as well. I saw it twice... so far. I'm curious as to why you were jaundiced. The director, Ang Lee, has a very eclectic filmography. He's directed Pushing Hands, The Wedding Banquet, Sense and Sensibility, The Hulk and, most recently, Brokeback Mountain (as well as several others of course).

The film flopped in China you know. The label that's been attached to it repeatedly is 'fantasy martial arts' (which I believe is appropriate), and it seems the Chinese audience can't relate.

Love,

Val

 

[cal val]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

Now it makes me wonder if anything is universal.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>By jove I think you've got it Pakua! Nothing is universal... and there are no absolutes.

Love,

Val

 

[bruce]

Val, for the same reason the Chinese were jaundiced, I suppose. It sounded like a rehash of sensationalistic Bruce Lee, which in a way, it was, only MUCH better! lol ..I only rented it, watched it three times. What I liked and what I thought was relevant to the discussion was that nothing in the movie was finalized. There was always this unfinished soft luster about it, which I see as 64.

Interesting is Joseph Campbell?s coinage for universal mythic theme: monomyth. His ?hero with a thousand faces? has much to say about universalisms. Different motifs due to different histories, but all which comes from the human psyche expresses the same stories. He makes a good case.

 

[cal val]

I know Joseph Campbell is big on universals. There are universals and there are no universals and there are absolutes and therey are no absolutes. And someone just as brilliant as Joseph Campbell could make as compelling a case for the non-existence of universals as he did for their existence. Oh dear! Someone probably has...

I wouldn't know though because actually the topic isn't really one of my personal favorites. I just liked the way Pakua phrased his/her post, and I made a spontaneous response to him/her that was meant to be humorous (I don't normally say "By jove"). But maybe I was too subtle and something obvious like a laughing emoticon would have better served my purpose.

Sorry sorry. Didn't mean to start something. Trying to back out the door gracefully.

Oh well.

Ta-ta for now,

Val

 

[pushpaw]

Hello,

I have two questions to ask about the information in the original post, if it is not to late to ask:

"there was a correspondence
between the Huanghe (Yellow River) and our galaxy, the Milky Way, both being called, according to Cheng, "Ho Tan".

Can anyone tell more about this?

Also, what is a hetu:

"The hetu was indeed found at the Yellow River, but it was a metal ball with numbers engraved on it. That ball was burned during the Qin Dynasty, but the hetu numbers pointed to stars in the Milky Way. In China the Milky Way matches the Yellow River."

Can anyone here speak to this? To the stars pointed to the Milky Way?

also:

"He'd also said that Fuxi found the metal ball after the deluge, at the same period the Bible says Noah landed in his ark."

also

"In China, even if we use the same order of hexagrams as Wilhelm, they only change if you receive three moving lines. One line in motion has no power to change a situation. We consider one line in motion as a focus, as advice to the person consulting, not as a movement of the situation. "

I have never heard of this method. Does anyone here use it? Where three lines make the change? How does one read a situation if one, or two lines change? Does one disregard the changing hexagram? Maybe there is an entire philosophy here of which I know nothing about, but is it a useful method?

I'm sorry to be asking all of these questions, this material is very new to me.


Linda

 

[bruce]

Hi Linda,

No need at all to apologize for asking questions.

I too have never heard of the 3 lines method before. I can see the logic of it and thought I'd try it, and did, but it still seems as though I'm throwing perfectly good input out the window by disgarding the relating gua if there's less than 3 lines.

 

[pushpaw]

Hi Bruce,

Yes, I've given it some consideration, and it seems to work thinking of the second hexagram as the condition, not the change, of the first. Thanks for responding.

Linda

 

[rosada]

Hi Linda,

i'm not understanding what you're saying. Could you give an example?

Thanks,
Rosada

 

[bruce]

Linda, that's a view I hadn't considered: it takes at least three lines to morph, but the relating hex. always...relates. Will have to pay attention to that for awhile.

 

[pushpaw]

Hello Rosada,

Yes, Bruce has it. If I draw 14 to 26 on a question, I know that 26 gives me information about the 14, but is not the change. Three changing lines provides friction for causal change. If I get 25 to 24, I'd better buck up, as there is more consequence to what I am considering. It will work out with consequence in the physical world.

This is only conjecture.

 

[rosada]

Thanks Linda,

Could I ask you to take it a little further?

Could you give me an actual real life situation? Like, what if your question had been:

What would I benefit from taking a class?

And you got 14.4 - 26.

How would you interpret it in the usual fasion and how would you interpret it using this new meathod?

Please forgive the importusion,
The (not so) Young Fool

 

[pushpaw]

Hi Rosada,

14 4 to 26: Those who call themselves (not so) Young Fools are wiser than I.

Is what the new method tells me.

:+)

 

[rosada]

Bravo!

Thank you!

Roz