Building up a hexagram with a dice

[svenrus]

From cracks in bones, tortoiseshells, divining with stalks of yarrows, coins, grains and carddecks....
Here's another method (I guess. Maybe it has been made before ?):

One dice.
Six lines of a hexagram.
The first bottom line is found by throwing the dice.
If it's a one, three or five: a firm line, Yang.
if it's a two, four or six: a yelding line, Yin.
Likewise the rest of the six lines.
Now; starting from the bottom, if the dice shows a one on the bottom line it will be old yang, Ritual Number nine. If it shows a two on the second line it will be old yin, ritual number six. A three on the third line: old yang, rn 9. A four on the fourth line: old yin, rn 6. A five on the fifth line: old yang, rn 9. A six on the sixth line: old yin, rn 6.

Ritual numbers (rn) being 6 for old yin, 7 for young yang, 8 for young yin and 9 for old yang.
-----
I'll throw the dice now:
It's a 5: First/bottom line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 5 again: Second line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 3: Third line will be a firm line - now being old yang.
then a 1: Fourth line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 6: Fifth line will be a yielding line - or young yin.
Finally a 1: Sixht/top line will be a firm line - or young yang.

----

Iacta alea est ! 'The die is cast' (Gaius Iulius Caesar)

 

[charly]

Source:http://diccionarioasterix.blogspot.com.ar/2010/02/frases-en-latin.html
​

Ch.

 

[svenrus]

Just asked (using the dice as above #1 described): would this method be OK ? and got (from bottom to top) rn: 8-8-8-7-8-7, hex 35.
I find it promising. I mean the tag of hex 35 "Advancement"/"Progress". Still, I feel this method maybe a little too quick... (?)

 

[svenrus]

The dice actually has something with the I Ching to do: http://www.svenrus.dk/thesixdirections.pdf (From: The Yi-globe, The Image of the Cosmos in the Yijing, by József Drasny), with it's six sides...

 

[svenrus]

Adding a link....

Here's another method (I guess. Maybe it has been made before ?):

One dice.
Six lines of a hexagram.
The first bottom line is found by throwing the dice.
If it's a one, three or five: a firm line, Yang.
if it's a two, four or six: a yelding line, Yin.
Likewise the rest of the six lines.
Now; starting from the bottom, if the dice shows a one on the bottom line it will be old yang, Ritual Number nine. If it shows a two on the second line it will be old yin, ritual number six. A three on the third line: old yang, rn 9. A four on the fourth line: old yin, rn 6. A five on the fifth line: old yang, rn 9. A six on the sixth line: old yin, rn 6.

Ritual numbers (rn) being 6 for old yin, 7 for young yang, 8 for young yin and 9 for old yang.
-----
I'll throw the dice now:
It's a 5: First/bottom line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 5 again: Second line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 3: Third line will be a firm line - now being old yang.
then a 1: Fourth line will be a firm line - or young yang.
then a 6: Fifth line will be a yielding line - or young yin.
Finally a 1: Sixht/top line will be a firm line - or young yang.

----
Here is a link for claryfying:

http://svenrus.dk/dicemethod.pdf

 

[svenrus]

The ritualnumbers

In the beginning I wondered, concerning the trigrams, why to example in the trigram two firm lines with one yielding line was the daughter and two yielding lines with one firm line was the son [Wilhelm/Baynes, book two, The structure of the hexagram, general considerations, p. 357 in the 1968 ed.] as my logical sense told me that overweight of firm lines must result in masculine and vice versa.
When I once again read " Heaven is one, earth is two, heaven is three..... -" [p. 308, ch. IX, in the above mentioned ed.] and added those numbers as:
Three firm lines gives 9, for the Father ie. 9 being masculine (3+3+3).
Three yielding lines gives 6, for the Mother ie. 6 being feminine (2+2+2).
Two yielding lines with one firm line gives 7, for the sons ie. 7 being masculine (2+2+3) and
Two firm lines with one yielding line gives 8, for the daughters ie. 8 being feminine (3+3+2).

Since then I used to take those ritual numbers into account whenever trying to figure out matters concerning the castings leading to the hexagrams.....

 

[svenrus]

"Sequence of Earlier Heaven, or Primal Arrangement" [Shuo Kua, Discussion of the Trigrams, ch. II, Wilhelm/Baynes Fig. 1, p. 266 in the 1968 ed.] strapped up on the cube. But not in the logical compass order.
Upper four corners being father, first son, second son and third son clockwise; lower four corners being mother, first daughter, second daughter and third daughter anticlockwise - to take one of those trigrams attributes - arranged diametrically opposed.
(Experiment)

 

[svenrus]

I'm sitting looking closer at a dice.

At the bottom of the die is One eye and at the top Six eyes (total seven as it should be.)
At the right side there is Three eyes and on the left side Four eyes (as above)
In front of me is then Two eyes and away from me Five Eyes (as above)
- It's implicit that theese is the order of all dices around the world (???)

Bottom and second line of the hexagram symbolize Earth.
Third and fourth line symbolize Man(-kind).
Fifth and sixth line symbolize Heaven.

The lower trigram in the hexagram is within, and the upper trigram is without. [Commentary on hex 11, Wilhelm/Baynes, book III, p. 442 in the 1968 ed.]
The correct place of the woman is within; the correct place of the man is without.
[Commentary on hex 37, as above, p. 569]
The movement of yang is thought of as being toward the right and that of yin toward the left [Commentary on the Image in hex 11, as above, p. 443]

Now, as for the lower trigram (line one, two, three) I'll find The bottom of the die ie. One eye being the first/bottom line. Furthermore I'll find the side in front of me with it's Two eyes being the second line. Finally I'll find Four eyes of the die on the left side being the third line of that lower trigram. It's symbolic within.

For the upper trigram (line four, five, six) I'll find the right side with it's three eyes being the fourth line. The side away from me with it's five eyes being the fifth line and finally the top side with it's six eyes being the sixth line. It's symbolic without.


Resumé (as it should be in my point of view):

Lower/Inner trigram being:
Bottomline: One eye on the dies bottomside. (Earth/Nadir)
Second line: Two eyes on the dies side in front of me. (Earth/Backward)
Third line: Four eyes on the dies left side. (Man/The woman - Yin)
Upper/Outer trigram being:
Fourth line: Three eyes on the dies right side. (Man/The man - Yang)
Fifth line: Five eyes on the dies side away from me. (Heaven/Forward)
Sixht line: Six eyes on the dies topside. (Heaven/Zenit)

That's how I wondered about that dice lookin at it when firstly made a speculative comparison with some numerologic phrases from The ten wings.....

:bows:

 

[svenrus]

Concerning:

Lower/Inner trigram being:
Bottomline: One eye on the dies bottomside. (Earth/Nadir)
Second line: Two eyes on the dies side in front of me. (Earth/Backward)
Third line: Four eyes on the dies left side. (Man/The woman - Yin)
Upper/Outer trigram being:
Fourth line: Three eyes on the dies right side. (Man/The man - Yang)
Fifth line: Five eyes on the dies side away from me. (Heaven/Forward)
Sixht line: Six eyes on the dies topside. (Heaven/Zenit)

----- should'nt it be Third line Three eyes..... ? and Fourth line Four eyes ? About that I'm a bit bewildered.
In that case the die should have the three- and the four eyes interchanged....

 

[svenrus]

.... concerning #7 in this thread; Whether the movement of the "Father, first son, second son and third son - and - Mother, first daughter, second daughter and third daughter" being clockwise and anticlockwise or reversed certanly is important. I maybe have made it wrong on the illustration, as for the Yangmovement/the father should have been anticlockwise/to the right and vice versa for the Yinmovement: "The movement of yang is thought of as being toward the right and that of yin toward the left" [Commentary on the Image in hex 11, Wilhelm/Baynes, book III, p. 443 in the 1968 ed.]

 

[svenrus]

From wikipedia

Links concerning the cube:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube



... and the dice:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice

- It's implicit that theese is the order of all dices around the world (???) (#8) : from this wikipage I see now that the order of the eyes on the die is quite casual.....

 

[svenrus]

Other dicemethods

Googling, found following link's:

http://www.wikihow.com/Consult-the-I-Ching-Using-Dice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching_divination#Dice

http://www.biroco.com/yijing/stick.htm


( Tangential:) http://www.stars-n-dice.com/
and: http://www.google.com/patents?id=0VkWAAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4&hl=da#v=onepage&q&f=false
and: http://books.google.dk/books?id=lFG...6AEwBzgK#v=onepage&q=dice + "I Ching"&f=false

(Commercial:) http://www.dicecollector.com/THE_DICE_THEME_DIVINATION.html
and: http://www.divinersdice.com/iching
and: http://www.ichingoracle.com/show_book.php?ID=32


Two more out of a thousands:
http://www.theamericanbookofchanges.com/dice/
http://www.luckymojo.com/iching/methods.html

 

[svenrus]

On #7 in this thread I looked another time when receiving a newsmail from a crop-circle-page that I'm suscribed to: http://lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2012/chilcomb-down-cropcircle-2012.shtml#pic3

 

[svenrus]

Important: THIS METHOD HAS A FAILURE !!! My attention had been pointed toward the fact that You can't attend a moving Yang-line on the second, fourth and sixht place and a moving Yin-line on the first, third and fifht place.
It can be fixed by throwing the dice one more time in those cases and whether the moving line being a old Yin or old Yang will be determined for old Yang: second cast being one, three or five eyes on the die. Vice versa old Yin: second cast being two, four or six eyes on the die....
But I know that I hardly can't be excused for such a failure.

 

[svenrus]

I still use the die today, but with this last mentioned correction in mind ie I throw the dice twelw times in all instead of six times:

Top line: 5 = firm and then 2 = Yin, or Ritual Number 8
Fifth " : 5 = yielding and then 1 = Yang, or RN 9
Fourth : 1 = firm and then 4 = Yin, or RN 8
Third : 1 = firm and then 3 = Yang, or RN 7
Second : 2 = yielding and then 2 = Yin, or RN 6
Bottom : 6 = firm and then 1 : Yang, or RN 7

..... to example.

I guess that the outfall is just as good as when using coins except it takes a little bit longer time to get the hexagram (coins: six throws, die: twelwe)

 

[svenrus]

Just spotted this, in red marked....

".... the archaeologists found inside its single coffin a wooden diviner's bord, bamboo sorting stalks placed in a bamboo canister, a number of dice *, the haft of a daggeraxe, and, perhaps most important of all, a heap of bamboo strips with writing on them..."

[Ch. IV in Edward L. Shaughnessy: Unearthing the changes, Columbia University Press, N.Y. 2014. On a tomb discovered in 1993 supposed to be from 4' to 3' centuries B.C.]

* would personally have liked if there were a picture/photo of them. But maybe those could be found elsewhere ? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dice#mediaviewer/File:Historical_dice.jpg)

On 'diviners board':

http://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln270/Needham-chess.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuanggudui (cosmic board)

 

[svenrus]

For a long time I've now used this method:





(maybe better here.)